sharps 74 vs 75

[1Hawkeye]

Been thinking about a rifle in 38-55. How would a 75 sharps do ? I've got a couple of Shiloh Sharps 74's but they are both 45-70. I was thinking about something a little different but I don't know a lot about 75's.

[country gent]

I consider the C Sharps 1875model when I got my 38-55 actually priced one out on the web site. I decided on the High Wall model in 38-55. I liked the center mounted hammer faster lock time and looks of it a little more. Barrel quality is more the determining factor on these single shot rifles. I opted for a 30" long 1-12 twist barrel. C Sharps was using McGowen barrels then ( about 3 years ago) Mine shoots great with 360 grn bullets out to 500 yds.

What uses are you planning on for this rifle? That will determine a lot on what to get. Shiloh Sharps has several options in1874s and1877s. C Sharps offers 1874s, 1875s, High walls, low walls, Hepburns, and 1877s. Pedersoli also has several options for rifles. Hunting, plinking, formal competitions, Ect will determine what is wanted. You can go to Shilohs or C Sharps web sites and price out the rifle you want, just the way you want it. I'm not sure if the 75 has a double set trigger option but think it does offer a single set upgrade. desired rifle weight will determine the barrel contour you want. Sights are again determined by use. Hunting the buck horn and front blade or drilled and tapped for a scope. For most competitions and plinking the tang mounted Vernier and spirit level front globe or a wind gage front globe. Triggers wood upgrades and most of the rest are personal choices.

[Don McDowell]

As the action of the 75 is somewhat slimmer than the 74, it's actually a better fit for the 38-55 than a 74.

[sharpsguy]

The dirty little secret is that the original Sharps factory only built two of the 1875 models, a target version and a military model. It was displayed at the Philadelphia Exposition in 1876, and the target model sold to Col. John Bodine for $300, according to Sellers. Bodine shot it, but the 1875 was a two rifle wonder and was never manufactured. The C. Sharps version is a poor copy of the original, brought out as an effort by C. Sharps to have a less expensive "Sharps" for sale when they were trying to get their 1874 production up and running and capitalize on the silhouette craze which was in full bloom at the time. The NRA rules mandated an exposed hammer which disqualified the Borchardt, and the 1875 provided that. Compare the photos of the C. Sharps 1875 to the photos of the only surviving original in Sellers' book, and you will readily see the difference. Be all that as it may, C. Sharps version has a good reputation for accuracy.

[marlinman93]

I personally think the 1875 Sharps offering looks weird. Just never cared for the design and I too would go for the C Sharps 1885 High Wall if I wanted a smaller action, and lighter/quicker hammer.

[sharpsguy]

Agreed.

[1Hawkeye]

I had a C.Sharps 85 in 45-70 it was a well built rifle with awesome wood but it just didn't shoot any better than 3 to 4 inches regardless of the load used and iv'e had the same results with a Browning & Uberti's as well. I was thinking about a rolling block but a buddy of mine offered me a nice 75 with expensive sights and 500 rds of ammo. So its got me thinking.

[Don McDowell]

I like my 75 well enough but I have other rifles I shoot more. If that rifle feels good in your hands then by all means go for it.

[rfd]

1hawkeye - something to think about, and in keeping with a cartridge a bit smaller than the .45-70, you may find interest in the pedersoli .40-65 silhouette sharps. i have one and was considering opening to a .45-70, but after loading and shooting it, she'll stay as is. DGW has it for $1200, while they're selling that same exact gun in .45-70 for $1650. the .40-65 is a steal, IMHO.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index/page/product/product_id/8341/category_id/314/product_name/CR0513+PEDERSOLI+Sharps+M1874+Silhouette+Rifle%2C+ .40-65

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219299

[1Hawkeye]

I used to have a Montana rough rider in .40-65 and I see Dixie has a pedersoli rolling block in .40-65 that has the wheels turning a little. All though I could get the rough rider back and I might if the deal for the 75 doesn't go through.It's just I've never had a .38-55 before and kinda have a hankering for one.

[rfd]

can't go wrong with a roller. but the DGW pedi .40-65 roller has been on back order since last summer. think about that pedi sharps .40-65!

[Boz330]

I have a 75 in 38-55 and really like it. I got it for a hunting rifle so it has a 26" Badger barrel but shoots good enough for competition and I have taken several matches with it as well as a couple whitetails. It shoots the Lee 250gr boolit fine for hunting and the Lyman 335gr Postel copy for everything out to 600yd. Mine doesn't have the single set trigger but I have one on my C-Sharps 85 and it makes competition much nicer.

Bob

[Don McDowell]

I used to have a Montana rough rider in .40-65 and I see Dixie has a pedersoli rolling block in .40-65 that has the wheels turning a little. All though I could get the rough rider back and I might if the deal for the 75 doesn't go through.It's just I've never had a .38-55 before and kinda have a hankering for one.

The 38-55 is a fun little cartridge for midrange and hunting. I've seen some used in the long range gong matches, and have used one for the gong matches, but your spotter needs to be on top of his/her game if the wind picks up and you start drifting off target, those bullets don't leave much of a dust cloud when the hit the berm. They lack just a bit of umph to do silhoutte as some times the rams have a tendency to stand there and laugh at you when you hit one below the horizontal center line, but I've had the same thing happen shooting 40-65.
Keep in mind also if the deals on your local guns fall thru a brand new from the factory 75 with the set trigger will run about 1675 or so. Good luck with your rifle purchasing venture.

[marlinman93]

The .38-55 is indeed one of my favorite calibers, and a caliber you can shoot all day long and never experience any fatigue or soreness. If the twist rate is quick enough it can also be loaded with heavier 300 gr. bullets and do very well at longer distances. It may not do as well in the wind as a big .40-.45 caliber cartridge, but it is a viable choice. I've used mine out to 650 yds. with no problem, but when winds get over 10 mph sideways it does take some extra effort to stay on a dinger.

[rfd]

yep, lots depends on the wind. if i were fortunate to live and shoot out on the plains to mountains, then nothing less than a larger .44 or .45 caliber that's backed and packed with plenty of black powder would do. this is perhaps where the .40's can be a good compromise, if recoil was an issue.

there was a croft barker article in a past BPCR News where the .38-55 roller built for his late son had some issues with knocking over the rams, and he got around that with much compressed swiss 3f bp.

[1Hawkeye]

I'm mainly going to use it for punching paper and gongs at 200 meters and 500 yards.

[rfd]

imho - perfect for the .40-65, less perfect for the .38-55, overkill for the .45-70 - i'd choose the mama bear cartridge. ;)

[rfd]

I personally think the 1875 Sharps offering looks weird. Just never cared for the design and I too would go for the C Sharps 1885 High Wall if I wanted a smaller action, and lighter/quicker hammer.

or perhaps a CPA stevens 44-1/2.

[Don McDowell]

I'm mainly going to use it for punching paper and gongs at 200 meters and 500 yards.

38-55 will fill that purpose just fine. In fact that's the common distances in Schuetzen matches where the 38-55 really has a grand following. The lyman postel bullet at 300 gr. will shoot quite well out of most rifles stoked with either black or smokeless.

[marlinman93]

I'm mainly going to use it for punching paper and gongs at 200 meters and 500 yards.

I'd definitely go with the .38-55 for the purpose stated! You'll shoot it a lot more than bigger calibers, just because it's such a pussycat. I sure like the caliber!

[Bent Ramrod]

My first view of BPCR shooting was when a guy named Al Challenor put his C. Sharps 75 in his Outer’s Rest on a bench and fired 7 shots into the 600 yard target, forming a group I could cover with the palm of my hand. I’m still impressed.

Nothing wrong with them, except lack of traditionality, and they’re generally available off the shelf. I saw a guy at the Quigley who had fitted his with double set triggers; they fit neatly in the lever/trigger guard and made the gun look even cooler. He said he’d sent the design to C. Sharps; I wonder why they don’t offer them as an option.

[1Hawkeye]

I got a little more info on the 75 my friend has for sale.
28" octagon barrel,Deluxe mid range tang sight with Hadley eyepiece,globe front sight with spirit level,windgauge,spare inserts,pistol grip stock & 500 rounds of 260gr lead ammo. I think the 1300.00 he's asking is ok and I'm scared to think what that front sight cost him cause I know he's kinda got a taste for only the best.

[Don McDowell]

One heck of deal at that price.

[country gent]

If the sights are MVA you can price them out on their web site. If the "deluxe" rear sight is a soule style then its around $350.-$400.00 the Hadley eye cup is around $80.00 and the windgage front is $300.-$350.00 from memory. Is it a standard trigger or a single set trigger? With the sights, eye cup, pistol grip upgrade. Was the wood also upgraded to a fancier grade? This probably isn't a bad price I don't believe you could have C Sharps build one with these options for this amount.

[rfd]

I got a little more info on the 75 my friend has for sale.
28" octagon barrel,Deluxe mid range tang sight with Hadley eyepiece,globe front sight with spirit level,windgauge,spare inserts,pistol grip stock & 500 rounds of 260gr lead ammo. I think the 1300.00 he's asking is ok and I'm scared to think what that front sight cost him cause I know he's kinda got a taste for only the best.

holy moly - just buy the dang thing! it's a steal! heck, I'LL buy it!!!

[marlinman93]

I think you better buy it before he tells someone else about it and it sells!

[1Hawkeye]

Its a done deal. Not only did he have all the goodies and ammo I mentioned before he also had a spare parts kit and a case with it. When I was test firing the rifle it did very well I almost shot the match with it today. Looks like I'll be ordering another arsenal mold to go with it and a set of rcbs dies.

[rfd]

awesome! 219474219474

[1Hawkeye]

O did I make a GOOD decision that 75 is a honey now I'm trying do decide on a mold for her. I like the Arsenal #379499 a 284 gr gas check but I want a flat base bullet also Iv'e been looking at the Lee 249 gr flat base but I'm a little shy of Lee equipment. The ammo that came with the rifle was loaded with store bought cast bullets so there is some weight variation issues as well as the fact I think my buddy loaded the ammo with thrown charges rather than weighing each one but thats ok I can blow them off getting use to the rifle then lovingly hand craft my own ammo for it.When it comes to loading your own ammo who says ocd is a bad thing.:grin:

[rfd]

once you determine the bore and groove of the barrel, get a good mould that will cast alloy to a proper diameter, and make bullet of proper design. really good moulds are not cheap. i would avoid all lee moulds other than their ball moulds. accurate molds makes a good aluminum mould for under $80.

[1Hawkeye]

rfd we are on the same page. The 75's bore mikes out at .376" so I got a .377" sizer but couldn't decide on the mold the one I'm looking at from Arsenal #379499 is a 280gr gc 4 cavity copy of the lyman 375449 that will cost me 85.00 delivered. I'm also looking at the lyman #375248 which is a 249gr fb which will cost about 80.00 for a 2 cavity mold. I did my home work a little bit either bullet uses the same top punch. I'm leaning toward the Arsenal even though its a gas check and sent them an email to see if they will make a flat base version.

[rfd]

1hawkeye - bore is .376 then what's the groove? if you want to extract the most consistent "long range" accuracy, you want a 1 cavity mould, no more. why gas check? what is the prime purpose of yer '75?

[Gunlaker]

There is a fellow who goes by the name of SShooter on the Black Powder Cartridge forum here. I believe that he has had good luck with a few of the Buffalo Arms money bullet molds in .38-55 C. Sharps rifles. Might be worth sending him a P.M. to get the details.

I have a C. Sharps highwall in .38-55 that I shoot breech seated paper patched bullets in. It works quite well.

Chris.

[rfd]

i mostly use BACO moulds, slick and grooved, they're excellent. steve brooks is real good, too. there are a number of top notch mould makers available to help you. lots depends on what kinda primary shooting will be done with that gun.

[marlinman93]

Aren't BACO molds made by Brooks?

[Gunlaker]

Aren't BACO molds made by Brooks?

Naw, BACO stands for Buffalo Arms COmpany. Their molds are really nice, although I know of a few schuetzen shooters who don't like the big Saeco blocks that they use.

Chris.

[Boz330]

O did I make a GOOD decision that 75 is a honey now I'm trying do decide on a mold for her. I like the Arsenal #379499 a 284 gr gas check but I want a flat base bullet also Iv'e been looking at the Lee 249 gr flat base but I'm a little shy of Lee equipment. The ammo that came with the rifle was loaded with store bought cast bullets so there is some weight variation issues as well as the fact I think my buddy loaded the ammo with thrown charges rather than weighing each one but thats ok I can blow them off getting use to the rifle then lovingly hand craft my own ammo for it.When it comes to loading your own ammo who says ocd is a bad thing.:grin:

I have a C-Sharps 75 in 38-55. I got it for hunting but have shot it in mid-range competition as well and it shoots the Lyman 335gr scaled down Postel very well. For hunting I use the Lee 250gr boolit but it is around .379 or .380 so is sized down quite a bit for the .375 groove on my rifle.

Bob

[rfd]

the one exception i have with cheap bullet moulds are the aluminum block moulds offered by tom @ www.accuratemolds.com, though he does also offer steel and brass moulds at higher costs. i have three of his custom alum slick bullet moulds and for about $80 shipped each they are truly excellent. i've used one of them (405 grains) to win local short distance matches (200yds). aluminum blocks may be easier for a newbie to casting as they come up to operating temps faster.

[marlinman93]

Naw, BACO stands for Buffalo Arms COmpany. Their molds are really nice, although I know of a few schuetzen shooters who don't like the big Saeco blocks that they use.

Chris.

I know what BACO stands for. But I thought Steve Brooks had been supplying their molds. Does BACO cut their own molds in house?

1Hawkeye,
I'd slug that bore. Can't determine groove diameter by checking bore diameter. Don't overlook Lyman molds either. They are great quality at good prices. I have a lot of custom molds, and Ideal and Lyman molds. The Lyman cast as good as any and their designs date back 100 years on some bullet molds.
The 375449 or 380681 are both good designs depending on what your groove ends up being.

[1Hawkeye]

Update, the bore is .376 with a grove of.368. I took it to the range yesterday and it about drove me crazy with the ammo that came with it. I couldn't hit the side of a barn from inside it was that bad. Out of 100 rounds I had about 30 on target at 100 yards and heard a couple of them buzzing as they went down range. Nothing is loose except for the front sight insert and I was using my normal sandbags. I'm really hoping it is a ammo problem. I pulled down one of the cartridges and the bullet was.3765 diameter but the powder charge was 26.4grs of ? and it's supposed to be 21.0 grs of imr 4198. WTH???

[Gunlaker]

Ah Val now I understand. BACO does cut their own molds. Each one is signed by a guy named "Jim". Someone told me who he is but I don't remember. I'd say that the BACO molds are really high quality. Comparable to Paul Jones IMO. I have some Brooks ones that are pretty nice too.

I have never tried the cheaper molds. In my mind, if I'm going to shoot a $3000+ rifle I'm not going to try and scrimp on a mold. The only cheaper molds I use are Saeco ones, and to be honest, although the bullets aren't as perfectly round as the ones my BACO molds cast, they are very accurate.

Chris.

[country gent]

have a Baco 40 cal 422pp mould, a Brooks 45 can adjustable cup point PP with the vented sprue plate, Several Old West Brass moulds by Bernie Rowles 40 cal 45 cal and 38 cal. All are very good moulds to cast with . Buying a quality mould saves a lot of headaches, and a custom mould will be just what you need dia wise. This can help if you want to shoot as cast or pan lube. Hoch is supposed to be very good also but Ive never worked with one

[Don McDowell]

Update, the bore is .376 with a grove of.368. I took it to the range yesterday and it about drove me crazy with the ammo that came with it. I couldn't hit the side of a barn from inside it was that bad. Out of 100 rounds I had about 30 on target at 100 yards and heard a couple of them buzzing as they went down range. Nothing is loose except for the front sight insert and I was using my normal sandbags. I'm really hoping it is a ammo problem. I pulled down one of the cartridges and the bullet was.3765 diameter but the powder charge was 26.4grs of ? and it's supposed to be 21.0 grs of imr 4198. WTH???

Before you do any more shooting with that , I'ld suggest doing some serious lead mining. If you had bullets tumbling chances are awfully good they left you plenty of little shiny slivers in the lands and maybe even the throat. Also think I'ld pull all the bullets and dump the powder and start fresh.

[sharpsguy]

THAT is good advice.

[1Hawkeye]

Don, I already scrubbed out the bore and was surprised to find it wasn't leaded up. As for the ammo Iv'e got 200 rounds left of the 500 and I'm thinking about pulling them down. I hope what is going on is poor quality bullets and too much powder. I found one spent bullet on the berm when I was done yesterday not only did it have a large void in the side of it. The bullet looked like it had barely engaged the rifling miking out at around .365". The bullet from the pulled round measured .3765" and looks like a Lyman #375449 it weighed 262 grs which is very close to the 264 grs Lyman gives for the bullets weight and it was so hard you can't scratch it with your thumb nail. I'm tempted to put a few of them over the crony to see what the actual velocity is. I'm also going to compare the powder to see if it looks like IMR 4198.

[rfd]

Update, the bore is .376 with a grove of.368. ....

the groove can't be smaller than the bore.

[Don McDowell]

If you haven't done so already run a flannel patch soaked in pure gum spirits of turpentine on a jag thru the barrel, that'll let you know for sure there's no lead in there.
Sounds like those bullets may be of questionable quality.

[1Hawkeye]

Sorry rfd swap the numbers around and Don I will give that a try and questionable quality is a understatement. Do the patches come out black like with Hoppies or does it cause any leading to release?

[Don McDowell]

You'll feel the patch hanging up on the lead, and will bring it out on the patch.

[marlinman93]

Ah Val now I understand. BACO does cut their own molds. Each one is signed by a guy named "Jim". Someone told me who he is but I don't remember. I'd say that the BACO molds are really high quality. Comparable to Paul Jones IMO. I have some Brooks ones that are pretty nice too.

I have never tried the cheaper molds. In my mind, if I'm going to shoot a $3000+ rifle I'm not going to try and scrimp on a mold. The only cheaper molds I use are Saeco ones, and to be honest, although the bullets aren't as perfectly round as the ones my BACO molds cast, they are very accurate.

Chris.


Thanks for elaborating on the BACO molds Chris!

I've had very good results with both Ideal and Lyman molds. I've also got some Saeco molds and they drop bullets so cleanly I've never had to tap them with my mallet to make them drop. I use the Ideal Doc Hudson molds in .38 and .32 caliber often, and the bullets are as good as anything I've ever seen. I have no problem shooting bullets from a mold under $100 in a gun worth over $3,000. If a mold works I don't care if it was free. If it doesn't I don't care how expensive it was.