what's a better cast bullet cartridge: 375 H&H or 416 Rigby?

[Whiterabbit]

For reasons I don't want to get into, I'm considering trying to build a bolt action rifle that can do anything any centerfire rifle can do. I'm strongly considering 375H&H or 416 Rigby, and thinking about what I have to do to make such a rifle friendly for medium size game, as well as for cheap target shooting at 100 and 200 yards at the range. shooting slow cast bullets seems ideal for this. I have tons of IMR4198 and the internet confirms people are using this powder for both 375 and 416.

I'm thinking the 416 will be a better cartridge for this purpose, seems I've always had better luck making cast shoot well as the diameter goes up, but I wanted to ping the collective.

For an oversized rifle for deer and pigs, loaded down for the occasion, what do you think would make the better cast bullet shooter?

[Texas by God]

Just me; I would stick with the .416 caliber but in the Taylor version. Not so huge as the Rigby, shorter than the .375. Big enough for elephant and small enough for cast. My .02 only.
Thomas.

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[obssd1958]

I voted for .375 H&H. I have several moulds suitable for the .416 bores, and a friend who shoots the Rigby and the Remington versions - but I have a lot more moulds for .375 in weights from 150 to 360 grains. Getting the .375 H&H to shoot cast boolits well, has never been a problem.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Just me; I would stick with the .416 caliber but in the Taylor version. Not so huge as the Rigby, shorter than the .375. Big enough for elephant and small enough for cast. My .02 only.
Thomas.

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Put me down for 2 votes for the .416 Taylor! I have played with a 335 Gr., a RCBS 350 Gr. and 2 versions of a 400 Gr. in GG and PP mode. Kinda hard to beat this round for ease of loading as well as needed power and vel. at the distances you mention. Also it can be made quite nicely on a std. Mauser action. Right now my favorite boolet is the RCBS 350 Gr. in either a H.P. by `Buckshot`, or solid nose.Robert

[Larry Gibson]

The 375 H7H will suit your needs a lot better than the 416 Rigby, especially with cast bullets. Use a 12" twist in it.

[Whiterabbit]

The Taylor looks interesting. What about 416 ruger? Brass availability is interesting for both of those. I also prefer no belt.... What do you guys think about taylor vs ruger?

[elk hunter]

I shoot and hunt with both the 375 H&H and a 416 Rigby and can tell you a 416 of any persuasion is a whole lot of rifle and with jacketed bullets and full house loads more than a lot of shooters want to get acquainted with. Unless your planning a trip to Africa the 375 is a lot friendlier to the shoulder with any load. If all you're going to do is shoot cast bullets for fun or hunting here in North America 375 brass is cheaper and uses far less powder and lead. A 416 gets points for the cool factor at the range but do you really need one?

[charlie b]

So, how about black powder in any of those? Preferences change?

[Outpost75]

Charlie, for black powder the .38-56 is hard to beat and is easily formed from .45-70 brass.

[evoevil]

I like the 375 H&H

[dubber123]

I have both, and as much as I love the Rigby, I think the 375 would be the easier of the two to work with due to the smaller case volume. I had no problem getting to full power with cast in my 375, and of course it can be downloaded if you wish.

[dverna]

I would go with the .375. But even it will not be what I would use “for cheap practice”. But for medium game you wish to hunt why not consider the .358 Winchester? Cheap brass and certainly enough gun out to 250 yards.

[charlie b]

Charlie, for black powder the .38-56 is hard to beat and is easily formed from .45-70 brass.But that is a rimmed cart. I was thinking of a bolt gun.

.450 Marlin would be about right but would rather have a smaller dia bullet.

[Kestrel4k]

IMHO the .375H&H is never a wrong answer. :)

[Hardcast416taylor]

An arguement that I like to put forward about making brass for a rifle from another cartridge is "how many cases can be made into a .375 H&H"? A .416 Taylor case can be easily necked from any of the long Winchester mag. rounds, the .458 Win. Mag. being the most commonly used. A Speer 350 gr. JSP is very accurate and would fill the bill for just about anything that would require a `J` round in the U.S. The 350 gr. RCBS `H.P.` by `Buckshot` is absolutely devastating when driven at the 350 gr. solid vel.Robert

[charlie b]

I would think that .375 cases are just as easy to find as .458WM cases.

[softpoint]

I have 2 Semi-custom .358 Winchesters. Both are accurate with both cast and jacketed bullets. It is plenty of gun at moderate range for anything on our continent. I also have bigger rifles, but they aren't nearly as versatile. The .35 Whelen is also good. Of the two you mention, I'd stay with the .375.

[warboar_21]

I was in the process of building a 375H&H as a range/large game rifle but found a left handed 375 Ruger African for less than the cost of having a smith assemble my rifle.
I haven’t shot any cast through it yet but I don’t find the recoil objectionable with factory ammo or my hand loads. I do believe NOE makes a mold for the 375 Ruger but like I said I haven’t pursued cast in this rifle. The Speer 235gr is a fun one for general paper punching. They are pretty cheap as well(for a large caliber). I also picked up several hundred 270gr round nose blems from midway at a really good deal.

I still plan to finish my Pattern 14 project but I’m thinking to re-chamber it to 375 Weatherby. I haven’t decided what to do at this point. A few more small parts and I’ll have everything I need.

[Whiterabbit]

Thank you for all the replies, guys! Great discussion.


I would go with the .375. But even it will not be what I would use “for cheap practice”. But for medium game you wish to hunt why not consider the .358 Winchester? Cheap brass and certainly enough gun out to 250 yards.

I didn't mention it, but I had other requirements that limited me to 375 caliber and up. It wasn't a needed mention because it would have only muddied the conversation, and not help get opinions about cast in these two cases. But short answer, I am looking at consolidation (nevermind why) and I want to see if I can consolidate three guns into one, one of which is a 510 wells capable of hunting cape buffalo. Just in case. So I am trying to combine a buffalo gun and pig gun, and I know that 375 and 416 both can be loaded light enough to do double duty. That whole concept is irellevant to the cast bullet question though, so I left it out.


I was in the process of building a 375H&H as a range/large game rifle but found a left handed 375 Ruger African for less than the cost of having a smith assemble my rifle.
I haven’t shot any cast through it yet but I don’t find the recoil objectionable with factory ammo or my hand loads. I do believe NOE makes a mold for the 375 Ruger but like I said I haven’t pursued cast in this rifle. The Speer 235gr is a fun one for general paper punching. They are pretty cheap as well(for a large caliber). I also picked up several hundred 270gr round nose blems from midway at a really good deal.

I still plan to finish my Pattern 14 project but I’m thinking to re-chamber it to 375 Weatherby. I haven’t decided what to do at this point. A few more small parts and I’ll have everything I need.


Put me down for 2 votes for the .416 Taylor! I have played with a 335 Gr., a RCBS 350 Gr. and 2 versions of a 400 Gr. in GG and PP mode. Kinda hard to beat this round for ease of loading as well as needed power and vel. at the distances you mention. Also it can be made quite nicely on a std. Mauser action. Right now my favorite boolet is the RCBS 350 Gr. in either a H.P. by `Buckshot`, or solid nose.Robert

OK, so I made up my mind. I'm going to explore the idea of 416 taylor or 416 Ruger. I am going to start with ruger because it's slightly, slightly bigger, but more than that, brass costs $1 each. A proper Taylor brass is $3 each, and I've learned that life is alot easier when my guns have ONE head stamp of brass (you know, for the guns when I care about that kind of thing), and part of my needs involve using quality brass.

To that end I just bought Quickloads, so I can play on paper wiht respect to cartridge ballistics with the 416 ruger or taylor case and some bullets I am interested in running. If the modelling just doesn't add up, I'll run 375. H&H preferrably, but possibly the ruger case or some other equivalent-to-375-H&H-performance case.

But hopefully the 416 models well! There is something about the 416 caliber that just tickles my fancy in no other way save the 510 caliber. (375 bullets are just so darn cheap in comparison though! :()

[stubshaft]

I too have both the .375 H&H and .416 Taylor. For hogs and plains game the .375 is hard to beat!

[Hardcast416taylor]

As bad as my eyes are going now days I can still tell the difference between a .458 mag case and a necked down .416 Taylor case from the .458. Don`t know where you saw Taylor brass for $3 a case, only time a case head stamp of correct caliber to a rifle would be needed if going to a foreign country that is picky on things like that. I`ve been making cases for my Taylor for a few years now using Hornady Basic 45 mag. cases. These are an overly long case that can be trimmed down to any of the Winchester long mag cases. I have an .375 H&H as well as a Taylor, yet I use the Taylor much more. Never made it to Africa due to life`s happenings, now too late for me physically.Robert

[Whiterabbit]

norma cases for the taylor are 3 bucks a pop.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/146754/norma-usa-reloading-brass-416-taylor-box-of-25

[dubber123]

Norma brass may be expensive, but it has been excellent in my 416 Rigby.