Maxim 50

[Kam0t0]

Hello all long time reader. (300blk talk link over). And finally made an account for a specific project. Yes I cast a lot and need a new mold and can't find what I'm looking for. My goal is to take full advantage of the suppressed muzzled loader. (Two season of using a friends then bought this). My goal is 100 yards max shot. But I want a cast bullet so it's soft enough to expand. But big enough to be subsonic and meet power requirements. A quick Google search didn't return much on others making bullets for this combo.

[Edward]

50cal Lee REAL /RCBS 405gr FN cast with pure come to mind except I know nothing about suppressed as it don"t rhyme with muzzle loader /sorry Ed

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

shoot a hollow point powerbelt.

[Lonegun1894]

What do you mean by "power requirements"? Is it something you have chosen yourself so might have a bit of wiggle room, or is it a State imposed limit of some sort?

[triggerhappy243]

seasoned shooter's, please correct me if i am wrong............... but a subsonic will not have what it takes to penetrate at 100 yards.

[Lonegun1894]

A .45 ACP is subsonic, and it penetrates just fine well past 100 yds. Your question depends on what you’re trying to penetrate and your bullet weight and profile. I’ve taken deer at 100yds with my 1911. Not optimal, but I knew the trajectory exactly and needed to eat. A 230gr RN broke the near shoulder, and exited just behind the shoulder on a broadside shot. Muzzle velocity was 875fps, and I’m not even sure what it was doing at 100, but it was definitely enough. I bet your ML fires a bullet that is at least 1.5 times as heavy as mine was, so will penetrate deeper.

[Kam0t0]

The min is 500 ft lbs at 50 yds and recommended is 900 at 100yds. Most inline muzzle loaders with modern sabots and 3 pellets are in 1200+ ft lb range. I think I can hit 900 with larger bullet and a max charge of 120 grains. (Silencerco listed max in the book with the reccomended bullet however it was strongly reccomended not to exceed 100 grains of black powder and pellets were not recommend either.

[Outer Rondacker]

Kam0t0 welcome to the forum.

Could the Silencerco suggestion be to keep it sub sonic? Thus making the silencer work well?

[Lonegun1894]

The load work up will be easy and fun as far as keeping it subsonic. But the ft/lb requirement is a math problem. Have you chosen a bullet yet?

Ok, just used the handloads.com energy calculator, and assuming a 400gr bullet, 775fps gives you 533 ft/lbs at the muzzle, so you really don’t need much to make the legal requirements you listed. 800fps gives you 568# at the muzzle, with 535# left at 50yds. However, you need the same bullet going 1150fps to make the 900#@100yds recommendation, so that won’t happen with a subsonic 400gr bullet. Interesting experiment. Keep us posted please?

For what it’s worth, all my ML rifle shooting is with a patched round ball, so to me, this is just a theory.

[Kam0t0]

I can do that I wanted to shy away from the list of reccomended slugs they list due to their availability around me. I also sent a message to silencerco stating what I was after and if they had started on a load.

[RU shooter]

This is quite an interesting topic . I don't have anything to add but I'm curious how will the suppressor play with either a sabot , lots of soft lube or Paper patching depending on which route you choose to go down ?

Tim

[Kam0t0]

Either of those will put debris in the can. My only option is powder coat.

[Landy88]

Either of those will put debris in the can. My only option is powder coat.

And that gives you no help in softening or purging fouling.

All ballistics, and much of everything else, is a balancing of compromises; but this is stacking the compromises pretty highly - interesting puzzle.

[45workhorse]

:popcorn:

[Kam0t0]

I found a straight walled hollow point slug mold looks like it's for a shot gun. 475 gr. It's used on eBay and there isn't much Info. I'm going to ask the guy to do a test cast and mic it. The next option would be swagging and more or less a larger copy of the hornady short jacket in 30 cal. I thought this through decently I figured prior to starting this. And what my easiest options were first. Plus if I swag I don't have to PC and resize. Just spend more on the initial dies.

[Lonegun1894]

This may be a dumb idea, but would a hollow base slug , like a Minnie, be worth considering? I know it’s not a sexy high tech solution, but I did warn you that I still use a cloth-wrapped round ball...

[Kam0t0]

Viable option minus it makes the slug lighter.

[Lonegun1894]

Both of Lee’s offerings are about 350-360 grains, so lighter than I was expecting, but still nothing to sneeze at. Like I said, no experience with your specific rifle, but am very interested in your project and wishing you success.

[Kam0t0]

Lee makes a 405gr. And if possible id like to get my hands on 20 slugs and try it.

[Kam0t0]

I found a few molds I'm interested in. And also looking at casting alloys to see which is softer.

The first mold I found I like:
https://www.buffaloarms.com/502-550-grain-fn-1-cavity-grease-groove-cast-bullet-mould-jim502550fn

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1196/1/LEE-515-500-6C

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The suppressor or silencer was developed around the same time as they were for the internal combustion engine, and there are three main reasons why they were seldom or never used by the few diehards who still used muzzle loaders at that time. Neither is impossible to work with but both are still a nuisance.

One is the fouling, which can now be minimised by the use of black powder substitutes or one of the few muzzle loaders designed to cope with smokeless. Otherwise it would need to be removed and washed out with water. Still, so does the gun, and how many shots a day do you need on deer?

Much the same applies to the obstructive of any patch, wad or sabot used. Substantial sabots in particular might jam sideways and damage the baffles. A grooved and lubed bullet would probably be best but see below.

The final difficulty would be in loading. Possibly the suppressor would have to be removed every time. but again, in hunting you don't often have to reload a muzzle-loader quickly. Any elongated bullet passed down through a suppressor, unless it is groove diameter and relies totally on upsetting on the first impact of gases, is liable to end up misaligned. It doesn't matter which way up a round ball reaches the muzzle, but for patching, see above. I don't suppose a suitably sized unpatched ball, driven into the rifling, is out of the question, since it works in breech-loading smooth and rifled shotguns. Another possibility to help alignment would be a steel or brass tube, thin enough to fit between bullet and baffles.

[Kam0t0]

The maxim uses a loading tube. It also specifically states not to use sabots or patches. They have a list of appoved/reccomended bullets that meet that. My short phone call with then said that PC lead bullets would work the same provided a safe load is worked up. But no round ball, cloth or paper patching.

[Geezer in NH]

Inlines are not allowed on this forum guys all seen in search were that kind

[Lonegun1894]

Geezer, I’m with you in having a strong preference for Traditional Muzzleloaders, but I wasn’t aware we can’t discuss anything that loads from the front on this forum. I mean, it’s labeled as “Muzzleloading”, and doesn’t specify beyond that. Is this a new thing or did I misunderstand the rules since I tend to stay in the various “suppository guns” sub forums here?

[Kam0t0]

Inlines are not allowed on this forum guys all seen in search were that kind
The sticky says Black Powder rifles, pistols and, shotguns. Which this is. Nowhere does it say no inlines.

[mooman76]

Must be thinking of another forum.

[Lonegun1894]

At least it’s not just me!

[Greg S]

Ok, to clarify:

[B][U]Minimum Requirement:[U][B] 500 ft lbs @ 50 Yds

Recommended is 900 ft lbs @ 50 or 100 yards for harvesting deer @ 100 Yds?

It sounds confusing but as I interpret it, the state has a required 500 ft lbs minimum at 50 yards but recommends 900 ft lbs. As long as you meet the 500 requirement, your good to go reguardless of what the state recommends.

[dsayer]

Must be thinking of another forum.
I think many that frequent this section of this forum are members of said site.

[Lonegun1894]

Dsayer,
.... guilty here. Then again, I’m on several others, but that one is great for traditional MLs.

[Geezer in NH]

Opps wrong forum