458 Socom or 450 Bushmaster 50 Beawulf AR 15 for a reloader/caster

[Outer Rondacker]

After having a talk with BrassMagnet last week he made me realize I do not own a modern day sporting rifle. Well everyone knows how I feel about 223/5.56. (I am not a fan). I do have a RAR in 223 I love. Anyway I had a few pennies saved up in a can when the phone rang and a buddy said hey I am taking a trip to a gun shop far away. OK. Want to tag along? Sure do. While standing in the shop I saw a complete PSA lower for 79 bucks new. So it came home with me.

Now I ask as a reloader and caster what round is a better fit. 458 socom or 450 bushmaster? 50 Beowulf even. Things I have to consider.

Life of brass.
Cost of projectile.
Does swaged bullets work in the 458 or 450 even?
What do you have and what do you cast and load into it? This gun will be mostly for blowing up water jugs. I might take it deer hunting but that depends on how much damage it does. I need something left to eat. I was looking for an AR 15 size rifle but not in 223.
If I placed this in the wrong section please move it but I think its ok. Also please lets not turn this into a cal war. I think all would be great to own just need to figure out what one I will be able to shoot the most. Thanks for your input.

I am open to other cals also as long as they do not cost thousands for an upper.

[nagantguy]

Love the 450, and as it is almost become standardized brass isn’t to difficult to find, easy to load
Mild to wild and though I haven’t found it to be a minute of angle rifle my upper will hold about 1.5 at 100 yards. Haven’t taken game with mine yet but it’s become very very popular in lower MI, as it fits the 1.8 inch straight walled cartridge class and I haven’t heard or seen that it’s a meat killer but does deliver the smack

[Outer Rondacker]

nagantguy do you reload for the 450? Stupid question right. Are you using cast?

I also do not expect the 45 cal bullet to be a tac driver. Its more of a freight train. LOL

[rockrat]

You would be surprised about the 450. Groups hover around 1-1.5", with j-words a bit smaller. 45 pistol bullets are cheaper than 45 rifle bullets I believe. Accuracy the same to me, in all three calibers. Just different power levels.
How about the 6.5 Grendel?

[corbinace]

Or 30tac/Herrett

[zardoz]

I have assembled my own 300AAC Blackout, and 458 SOCOM rifles. Both were attractive to me, because all my standard AR magazines work without modification. I can swap uppers and lowers between the three platforms as well. So I can mix and match magazines with varying capacities between my 5.56 AR's, and the two larger calibers.

I like to use the 20 round magazine on the bench, because it is less awkward than the 30 rounders. The 20 round standard AR magazine will hold 7 rounds of 458 SOCOM.

I can use the same boolits, or j-words between 308 Win, 300 Win Mag, and the 300 AAC. Then, boolits and j-words made for my 45-70 Marlin work in the SOCOM. I have a nice Ranch Dog 350 grain .458 mold that works very nicely in the SOCOM. My main thing was interchangeability.

Brass for the SOCOM is fairly expensive, but I suspect the same applies to the other large caliber AR brass.

That's just my preference, having looked at both the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf a lot before finally deciding on the SOCOM.

[Lloyd Smale]

I love my beo. Its accurate, brass life is great and well, its a 50! Got to be better then a 45. That said id like to pick up a 450. Between the 450 and 458 the 450 is the winner in my book. Cheaper bullets, more molds available, and its straight walled so its legal to hunt with in areas that matters. The 458 might have the edge in power but if that's a concern (and it shouldn't be because any of the three is plenty powerful) then id just step up to a 450. Also it seems that finding brass for the 450 and 50 is a bit easier then the 458. My 50 shoots moa with reineer plated solids and just a bit bigger with there hps. Id like to be able to tell you how great it is with cast but to be truthful I didn't fool much with it. I bought a couple molds and maybe shot a couple hundred through it doing load development but nothing did near as well as the reineers. Now that I do pc I think maybe his summer ill give them another try. Its not that it did terrible. I had a few 3 inch 5 shot groups at a 100 yards which is good enough for anything your going to use one for but the reineers are relatively cheap and are a lot cleaner running in an AR then lubed cast bullets are.

[RU shooter]

I'd go with the 450 , Big choice of 45 cal pistol bullets cast and jacketed varieties and brass is fairly common . Ballistics are way more than enough for any deer to handle if you want to use it for that . With an adjustable gas block you could load and shoot mild to wild with it .

Tim

[Outer Rondacker]

How about the 6.5 Grendel?This round looks good but not something I am after. THanks for the suggestion.


Or 30tac/HerrettI did a Google search and did not find anything about this. I do not know what it is.


I like to use the 20 round magazine on the bench, because it is less awkward than the 30 rounders. The 20 round standard AR magazine will hold 7 rounds of 458 SOCOM.
That's just my preference, having looked at both the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf a lot before finally deciding on the SOCOM.I am in NYS and have to stick to 10 rounds in a mag law. When we could have more I used to use 20s over 30s in 5.56 for the same reason.


I love my beo. Its accurate, brass life is great and well, its a 50! G Now that I do pc I think maybe his summer ill give them another try. Its not that it did terrible. I had a few 3 inch 5 shot groups at a 100 yards which is good enough for anything your going to use one for but the reineers are relatively cheap and are a lot cleaner running in an AR then lubed cast bullets are. I think PC will work well as I have done it in the 50AE in the past.

300 blackout is a no go for me since us NYS guys can not have Cans. I am leaning more into the big bore setups. If I can afford to get one built.

If anyone has a good deal for an upper in any of these three cals feel free to post a link. Searching the net is not my thing and locating BB uppers is proving to be difficult.
This is great info guys. Please keep the chat going as I have one half of a rifle at this point. Would love to hear more on brass life. We all know straight wall should last longer then high pressure bottle neck.

[KMac]

I would choose the 450 of those 3. Most 458 rifle bullets wont open up at the 458's velocity, but the pistol bullets will in the 450. But if you are going to shoot cast only then the 458 would be just as good a choice. But I chose the 6.5 Grendel for myself.

[Outer Rondacker]

I'd go with the 450 , Big choice of 45 cal pistol bullets cast and jacketed varieties and brass is fairly common . Ballistics are way more than enough for any deer to handle if you want to use it for that . With an adjustable gas block you could load and shoot mild to wild with it .

Tim
Mild to wild. Humm that sounds like me.

I just found a used 50 Beowulf for sale. But I have no clue what a good price is for new or used.

[KMac]

Mild to wild. Humm that sounds like me.

I just found a used 50 Beowulf for sale. But I have no clue what a good price is for new or used.

What are the specs of the rifle and how much are they asking?

[Outer Rondacker]

I would choose the 450 of those 3. Most 458 rifle bullets wont open up at the 458's velocity, but the pistol bullets will in the 450. But if you are going to shoot cast only then the 458 would be just as good a choice. But I chose the 6.5 Grendel for myself.

Does not have to shoot cast. Like others I shoot a lot. I can see myself shooting more then the average person. I am told by other club members I shoot more then the entire club combined. When the 50 ae came out it cost us around 2 dollars a bullet to reload. Now I have it down to .45 cents. These three rounds have been out for a while now and I figure each can be loaded for about the same.

Another question I have is you guys keep saying the 450 bushmaster takes pistol bullets at .452. Well my 45 pistols using J-words shoot .451. If cast .452.

[Outer Rondacker]

What are the specs of the rifle and how much are they asking?

$800 dollars. "Alexander Arms .50 beowulf upper, it has a 12.5in odin works mlok rail, low profile gas block, tank brake, custom etched .50 beowulf dust cover. It will also come with 32 brass casings fired once, 6 rounds of 335g HP, 6 rounds of 385g BRASS HP from AA and a factory AA 7rd mag, and a 10rd modified Hexmag. The complete upper was only used to pig hunt and only has like 60 rounds through it. BCG shows no wear and still has factory grease on it. Upper barely has any wear, though a few nicks."

This is the ad. I also found brand new 80% complete kits for 825.00 Alexandra Arms upper Anderson lower. Like I said I have not clue what a decent price is.

[lavenatti]

My Alex Arms 50 Beowulf upper was around $700 when Midway had them on sale.

Just ordered a 450 Bushmaster from them for $450. I like the thumpers and will probably add a Socom to the collection but right now they seem to be pricey.

[Outer Rondacker]

Just ordered a 450 Bushmaster from them for $450. . Did this include the bolt carrier group?

[RU shooter]

Another question I have is you guys keep saying the 450 bushmaster takes pistol bullets at .452. Well my 45 pistols using J-words shoot .451. If cast .452.

Yes it shoots the same bullets you would use in your 45acp pistol .451 for jacketed ,.452 cast is pretty much the norm . You would size or buy your cast bullets at whatever size would fit your barrel best . Who know it may shoot best with .454 dia cast bullets .that depend on the barrel /throat though . They also make some heavy weight jacketed bullets designed for the other 45 cal revolvers 45 colt 454 est. most are probably .451-.452 they will also work fine.

Tim

[rockrat]

I use the .451 bullets in my 450 B. I have also used 45 cal bullets designed for muzzloaders, the kind that fit in a sabot. Figure the velocities they are designed for in a muzzleloader are similar to that of the 450B. Can you use 20 rnd 5.56 mags and just mark them for use in 450B only and mark the capacity on the mag? I think I remember someone offering mags as such.
The only drawback to my 450B as compared to my 458 or 50, is that the barrel should have been a bit bigger in diameter because the big hole in the middle takes off alot of metal and makes the gun a bit light for my tastes. Have thought about having X-caliber make me another barrel to add a bit of weight.
Too bad 50 ae uppers aren't still available, that might work for you too

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks for clearing that up guys. (451-452) I can use other mags as long as the base plate is marked the cal its in. Other wise they say it holds to many 5.56 even if the upper is in a different cal. The item not the use of it is outlawed. Anyway.

The 50 AE is headed for Washington state. Years ago my buddy and I went halves on it and he now lives in Tacoma. Since its on the ban list here. So all the 50 AE stuff will be shipped out with it. Going to go take a look at midway right now to see the price differences on the three uppers.

[nagantguy]

nagantguy do you reload for the 450? Stupid question right. Are you using cast?

I also do not expect the 45 cal bullet to be a tac driver. Its more of a freight train. LOL

Yes I do and a pc’d 235 grain lee round nose is plenty accurate up to the warm side of mild
Loads. I also have had great luck with the bargain priced Rainer plated bullets, the Hornady flex tip is also holding about 1.5-2 “ at 100 in full house loads. And some have trouble with standard magazines freezing the big 450, from magpul and colt 20 rounders I haven’t had to much trouble.

[Outer Rondacker]

I think the 458 is out for me. Not sure. Looks like the 450 bushy will run me 500 for an upper and a mag. Then dies and brass. I can not help but be drawn to the 50 Beowulf. Looks like 800 plus dies and brass. I am still shopping and have no made up my mind yet.

[Gunslinger1911]

Hi Outer, I went through this same thought process a couple months ago (tax refund gun lol).
Socom was out cause bottle neck - just didn't want to go there
Bushmaster uses "typically" lighter pistol bullets (yes, I know we cast some monsters in 452)
Also, I have a 45acp upper - not the same class, but a 45 upper.

I just got a 50 Beo upper from Optics Planet - about $500 (Made by Radical Firearms - from my research a good quality upper) They have to call it a 12.7x42 cause Alex holds trademark on Beo.
"12.7x42" might help your search also
Alexander Arms wants about $720 for a plain upper, about $1200 fancy.

I went 50 because of the above reasons, and I already cast for 500 Smith and 50 AE.
With the possible concerns with lube in the gas tube I'm going PC for this cannon.

I'm a little leery of a rifle that has a muzzle break from a Panzer tank !

[Dirtjumper895]

218790

I run these in my suppressed 12.5" 50 Beowulf. They feed amazing, and since they are the same profile, I just keep my dies the same and adjust the powder measure when I switch between sizes. They are 594gr, 506gr, and 435gr boolit, and came from an Accurate Mold. The mold # is 50-xxxD, where xxx is the weight.

[Outer Rondacker]

Gunslinger1911 Every time I see your profile pic it makes my day. I love that pic. Thank you for posting those pics. I am on the fence with the 50. Edging over fast. I will search that other way of listing it. This could be why I have not found much.

Dirtjumper895 them some good looking bullets. Thanks for posting that. I will be looking into this mold if I get a 50. (Im getting a 50 I just dont know it yet)

As for a tax gun, No this is a honey you please do this for yourself kinda thing. Wife found out I spent my gun fund to help another out and she knows I have put off buying anything for myself lately. Well I still buy just need to sell something else to do it and that is what I did. By chance I got a killer deal on a plain Jane lower. She knows I hate it when guys show up to the range and turn it into AR fest. Well (when) I go 50 beo at least I can brake that it out and make their pee shooters not so kewl anymore. In the last three months I have only seen two guns at the range other then an AR platform. Not counting the ones I bring.

[Outer Rondacker]

Hi Outer,
I'm a little leery of a rifle that has a muzzle break from a Panzer tank !

What's wrong with that? Oh and Optics planet is saying the one you got is only 15". I was under the impression it needed to be 16" to not be a short barrel rifle. NYS equals no tax stamps.

[Gunslinger1911]

I've had that pic for decades, just hits my funny bone every time.
Your wife is a KEEPER !!
Yea, you know it's gotta be a 50 !

400g, 465g, 425g, 475g, 535g, 570g

Gotta get to PC'ing those boolets !

And I'm awaiting the 385g HP Mihec !

[Gunslinger1911]

Haha, nastiest muzzle break I've seen.

I'll say typo on the description - farther down says 16".

BTW, good thing the brass lasts, (30k psi v/s 60k for 500 Smith). Starline brass is $60 / 100 !

[Outer Rondacker]

You typed here I sent you a pm. You answered my question without even knowing. As for that brake you might change your mind after you read that PM.

[Gunslinger1911]

Jeepers, that brake on the Alex is HUGE !

[dh2]

50 Beawulf to me was out because I do nothing else casting or reloading in 50 Cal. and shows no advantage over the others.
450 Bushmaster being .452 has a lot going for it I reload and cast for 45LC and .460 S&W Mag. so my mold and bullet options would be very good. But I could not find an upper or a barrel at the time.
458 Socom was the way I went Brownells had a barrel kit and upper receiver with the ejection port over sized for this round, so I built it brass is easy to get from starline, I cast and reload for 45/70 so the bullets and molds on the light end work well for it. it is plenty of gun for swamp pigs and deer, if a black bear comes along no problem, So I am going to keep going with it

[Outer Rondacker]

Sad he will not return my calls.

Dh2 I see nothing wrong with 458. I just like straight wall cases better and like most dream of the larger toy. Right now midway has complete uppers in 450 bushy for 449 shipped to your door.

[adcoch1]

Been looking into this myself, don't buy before you look at tromix.com they have tons of barrels and uppers for all three since they specialize in big bores. I have also heard great things about radical firearms, they are supposed to make a great low cost upper. When you price out a big bore make sure to include dies, brass, and possibly a mold into the equasion. I believe the 50 beo dies were super expensive. I want to go 50, but i just have a hard time with case mouth headspacing since I don't have a straight wall restriction to deal with.

[Outer Rondacker]

adcoch1 So you would go with 458 due to its shoulder head spacing?

Just looked at tromix.com. They do not carry 50 BW. There is a good deal on 358 socom setup.

[adcoch1]

Yeah 458 is on my list. The brass is a little expensive but dies are $40 and bullets and molds are everywhere. Plus the headspace thing. In a bolt gun I wouldn't care but in a semi auto I want a case shoulder. Tromix USED to have a 50 beo barrel, looks like its gone now. Yeah and 358 socom is awesome too, but I am building a 35 whelen to scratch the 35 cal itch. Also the big bore I build will be a 10.5" sbr. If it works good I'll probably do a 16" upper too...

[Gunslinger1911]

My 50 is a Radical upper - nicely built.
Primary Arms has them in and out of stock (16" not in stock now), seem to sell them as fast as they get them.
Optics Planet in stock.
Dies cost about the same as any other. Case is about the same as 500 smith with no rim.
50 Beo does about the same out of a 16" bbl as a Smith 500 out of a 5" Just sayin

[Outer Rondacker]

Humm With a code I have from doing a review it looks like I can get a Radical upper in 50 for 469.22 shipped to my door. Is this a good deal?

[Gunslinger1911]

I would say good deal - mine seems to be well put together.

[Outer Rondacker]

I am not quite sure what I just did. It will take a week to set in when the post man stops by. $443.48 to the door. Now I need some brass and dies. I have projectiles.

[Gunslinger1911]

Haha. Enjoy ! A little something to whet your appetite !

[Outer Rondacker]

Oh well I thought I had projectiles. Guess I need some of them as well. Or a mould.

Is there an inexpensive mould option?

[Gunslinger1911]

Boolet on the left is a Lee 440 RF. $22 for a 2 cav at Midway. GC design, I left off the expensive copper GC and PC'd it.
I just got a plain base .50 check maker - I'm thinking of removing the GC "flange" on the mould. Having a master machinist for a son in law is WONDERFUL !

BTW, loading data is scarce, good start is data on Alex Arms site. 296 / H110 for the lighter weights, Reloader 7 for heavy's .

[greywuuf]

I am going to be the voice of the " other guys" here . I hate the 450. Most bullets are going to be lightweight pistol bullets with horrible B.C. and designed to expand at pistol velocities and be frankly the wrong choice for a carbine platform. The Socom is my favorite but I own a beo. I cast for it ....though there are those that say you can't run cast in a gas gun. I figure if I ever have an issue gas tubes are pretty cheap and I ain't out all that much .....so far no problems .....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[greywuuf]

Forgot to mention .....I am not a fan of rimless straight wall cases in a rifle platform (or even pistol .. I shoot a a 45 colt as my handgun vs acp......I like rims makes my headspace way less dependant on case length ......just my own preferance though)

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[Outer Rondacker]

Well this thread as spun from what do you guys think to what have I done. Im ok with that.


For some reason I was thinking 300g-400g was the going weight on this round.

[Gunslinger1911]

Welcome to the party Greywuuf, what brand 50 B do you have ? Any favorite loads ? I've gathered the kick is similar to a 45/70 lever action with similar loads ?

I feel responsible for helping Rondaker spend his money, lol, looking for all the data we can get.

Alex Arms shows data for 240g to 530g slugs. I'll have cast from 385 to 570g. Gotta be a sweet spot there somewhere.

[Outer Rondacker]

I found the 440 lee mold but was looking for a bit lighter. Humm wish I had a buddy who could drill out moulds. I have a real mold in 50 I would have drilled to make it around 330 smooth side for PC.

I need a sample platter of bullets LOL. Does this round move fast enough to make it worth hollow points?

Ok I am a bit slow here. This just hit me. 50 cal is 1/2inch. If I was to set a stop in a drill press and lock my REAL 50 cal mold in it do you think I could just drill it out with a 1/2 metal bit? I know I am cutting corners but after buying the upper and still needing some brass, sizer and dies if I can save a few bucks I kinda have to. I have no use for the mold as it is.

I need to find a caster getting out of casting 50 cal.

[Gunslinger1911]

Yea, brass at $60/100 is steep. Dies $40 for Lee, $80 for Lyman.
As I said somewhere, I had a heck of a time sizing new Starline brass with Lee dies. Not sure why yet.

As for HP: 350g gets to 1800 f/s, 400g good for 1700, 500g 1400. So, yup hp should open up.
And those vel are for j-words, cast will be a little faster.

I suppose if you could get everything centered perfectly, drilling out that mould would work. Machine shop would have the fixtures to center it up, might not cost too much.
Another option is the Lee mould and mill off enough to get the weight you want. I did that with a full WC 357 mould.

[Outer Rondacker]

I am going to put a post in the swaping and selling section. Searching for 50 Beowulf dies and sizer mold so on.

As for what I am finding online about the Lee dies. Many people are having the same issues you are in 50 BW. Might want to call Lee. I love lee dies but feel I might have to stay away from them on this one. Well unless I find a steal.

[Gunslinger1911]

I have mostly heavies from my 500 Smith - soon to have the 385 Mihec hp. (in the mail !!). If you would like any of what I have, I'd be happy to send you some. Should have the Mihec in a week or two.
I may go ahead and mill off my Lee to 325g or so. lol

[Gunslinger1911]

I may try a major polishing on the Lee sizer die, can't hurt.

[Outer Rondacker]

I have mostly heavies from my 500 Smith - soon to have the 385 Mihec hp. (in the mail !!). If you would like any of what I have, I'd be happy to send you some. Should have the Mihec in a week or two.
I may go ahead and mill off my Lee to 325g or so. lol
I might just take you up on this. As I have only learned what I know on this round in the last 24 hours. LOL

I may try a major polishing on the Lee sizer die, can't hurt. This is true. But nor can a phone call to lee first.

Well I just got done searching the few classified places I know of and not one set of dies. LOL

[Gunslinger1911]

You talked me into it, I sent them an email.
Good luck in the search - the Beo has been around 10+ years, but is still a niche cartridge.
I'm a sucker for the weird ones :41ae, 50ae in a revolver, built a 10mm 1911 when they were a $2k custom job, 22 TCM (now that's a hoot !).
I may take a crack at milling the Lee .50 mould, a 325g sounds kinda cool..

[Outer Rondacker]

Ya I have a 22 tcm. I do not cast for it.

I am looking at my moulds and I found a older lee 90345 44-40 or 44spl mould in 214g. I do not use it anymore. I have already been checking my drill bit profiles. LOL

I hope Lee makes it right for you. If they do I might just buy a lee set for the 50 BW.

[Gunslinger1911]

Be interesting what they say - I've had good luck with Lee cust service in the past.

The tcm is a fun little critter, I cast a 42g gc for it - 4 cav, so goes pretty fast, massive pain to put on the gc's. Maybe linotype and PC to get rid of GC ? lol

[BD]

The .450 Bushmaster is the .45 ACP of the big bore AR-15s. Brass life appears to be nearly as long, (load it until it gets too short), happy with a wide variety of powders, accepts a wide variety of projectiles, low pressure for it's class, and very accurate. Cast bolts are tougher. 2" groups are easy, tighter take some work. But using the Hornady FTX bullets 1/2 Moa is pretty easy.218908218909

[Outer Rondacker]

Nice groups. I have a feeling the 450 is on my buddies list. Well after him getting a call and hearing I GOT A 50. :bigsmyl2: For me it was price. I got a 50 for the price of a 450 and less then a 458. Now finding brass dies and moulds is becoming a pain. But I will.

[Gunslinger1911]

Pain is weakness leaving the body, Rondacker. lol

You have to look at it as "the thrill of the chase"

Hahahahaha (evil cackling laugh)

[Outer Rondacker]

I am enjoying myself quite nicely to be honest. I do not mind the hunt. Part of the fun. Well kinda. I will admit I have never owned anything other then Lee moulds and 3 lyman moulds two of which where slug moulds. I will have to expand my brand of ownership for this one I fear.

[adcoch1]

Keep it up! The rest of us can learn from your pain..er...i mean experience!

[Outer Rondacker]

Look before you leap. I was about to drill into this Lee mould this morning when I realized that the sprue plate screw would be in the way. Looks like I am going to hit the junk bin at the local gun shops for an old mould block. I need a new project to screw up anyway.

[lksmith]

I have assembled my own 300AAC Blackout, and 458 SOCOM rifles. Both were attractive to me, because all my standard AR magazines work without modification. I can swap uppers and lowers between the three platforms as well. So I can mix and match magazines with varying capacities between my 5.56 AR's, and the two larger calibers.

I like to use the 20 round magazine on the bench, because it is less awkward than the 30 rounders. The 20 round standard AR magazine will hold 7 rounds of 458 SOCOM.

I can use the same boolits, or j-words between 308 Win, 300 Win Mag, and the 300 AAC. Then, boolits and j-words made for my 45-70 Marlin work in the SOCOM. I have a nice Ranch Dog 350 grain .458 mold that works very nicely in the SOCOM. My main thing was interchangeability.

Brass for the SOCOM is fairly expensive, but I suspect the same applies to the other large caliber AR brass.

That's just my preference, having looked at both the 450 Bushmaster and 50 Beowulf a lot before finally deciding on the SOCOM.

Sounds a lot like my thought process as well. For me the main reason for going 458 over 450 was the selection of heavy boolits and not having to modify the mags. I plan on using a can on my AR for quiet hunting and being able to get a bigger hunk of lead with the 458 and more available heavy bullets and molds broke the tie. Another thing that helped was that I have several hundred .458 bullets from a trade that need a home.

I know with the 458 you have to open up the ejection port on the upper (if using standard upper), but I think the same holds true for the other two choices.
Haven't had a chance to shoot much, but something about having a 45-70 in an AR appeals to me. Same thing can be said for having a 30-30 in AR (300blackout) and a 44mag in a 1911 (460 Rowland)

[Idaho45guy]

I bought a Ruger SR556 before the Trump election that I didn't need; already had a tricked out AR that I never shot. I realized that I didn't have a good camping/hiking/Jeeping rifle for protection against critters while in the Idaho wild.

Came up with the bright idea to buy a .450 Bushmaster upper. I already cast for my Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt.

Then I started searching for uppers and found that good ones were at least $700. Then I realized that you could only get nine rounds in a 30-round .223 mag.

So I bought a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt that holds ten rounds for $500, then I "hot-rodded" it to make it as versatile as the AR...

218943

I like how it turned out, but I think if I had to do it over again, I would have just bought the .450 Bushmaster upper.

[Outer Rondacker]

Idahoguy I think you have your info wrong. Its 10 Beowulf in a 30 223 mag. I think it is 14 450s in a 30. Not sure where you found that marlin for 500 bucks but congrats. That is a good deal. You can get 450 bushmaster uppers shipped to your house for 450.00

I should have gone with the colt round. Less new items needed.

[Lloyd Smale]

some of my 30 rounders hold 10 some 9. Depending on the follower.

[Outer Rondacker]

Holly smokes! I found one shop within an hours drive that has a box (3) of 20 Beowulf for sale. $58.99. (each) Its The plain Jane stuff. Nope not going to do it. Cant do it. Just can not.

[Gunslinger1911]

THAT"S why we reload !!! lol
"Gun" folks cringe when I pull out the S&W 500 because they realize how much the ammo costs.
Not for me; $60 / 20 ? Nope. More like $10 / 50.

Rondacker, we'll get you hooked up in no time !

[Outer Rondacker]

Oh just got the email my 50 upper shipped out today. Another member emailed me he has some brass. Im getting there.

[corbinace]

Look in S&S section for a 50 mold, that just came up.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup a guy sure couldn't own and shoot any weatherby caliber unless they were wealthy if they didn't reload. Cost me a few pennys more to load 50 Beowulf rounds then it does 44 mags or 45 colts. Couple more grains of powder. Couple more grains of lead. bottom line is if I didn't reload and cast I would probably own a 22 and an 06 and have a different hobby.
THAT"S why we reload !!! lol
"Gun" folks cringe when I pull out the S&W 500 because they realize how much the ammo costs.
Not for me; $60 / 20 ? Nope. More like $10 / 50.

Rondacker, we'll get you hooked up in no time !

[Outer Rondacker]

Look in S&S section for a 50 mold, that just came up.

Thanks for the heads up but you know the story. A day late and a dollar short. Its sold already.

Lloyd Smale, I understand that statement oh to well. I think most that have spent a some time here feel the same way.

[frankenfab]

You can get the Ranier plated 335 grain SP or hollow point from Midway for $86.00/500. They shoot very well.

As far as sizing goes, you do have to lube your cases well. If you're using spray on lube, you really have to let it dry.

[Outer Rondacker]

Ya midway was out last I checked.

I use the old method of the lube pad.

[Outer Rondacker]

If any of you guys show this thread to my wife we can not be friends anymore. LOL Na its ok. Well just ordered Lee mould, Dies, Sizer and two 10 round mags. Came to 102.97 shipped to the door from Brownells.

This is coming together nicely. Still need brass.

[Gunslinger1911]

Brass :
Starline brass, Midway = $74/100
Diamond K = $15 / 25 (once fired - mixed head stamp) or $71 / 100 (new Starline)
Starline = $170 / 250

[Outer Rondacker]

Brass :
Starline brass, Midway = $74/100
Diamond K = $15 / 25 (once fired - mixed head stamp) or $71 / 100 (new Starline)
Starline = $170 / 250

Gunbroker Great Lakes 100- for 48.00 x2 = 96.00 + 9.00 shipping makes for 105.00 to the door for 200 new.

As luck would have it i go offered a set of dies used moments after I bought new. LOL

[Gunslinger1911]

Nice score on the brass !

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks. He has 12 more bags for sale.

[Gunslinger1911]

Ahhhhhh, you are killin me !
Too good a price to pass up.

[Outer Rondacker]

You ordered some didnt you. I see two more missing from the listing. LOL

[Gunslinger1911]

Guilty as charged.

Thanks for the heads up on those !

[Outer Rondacker]

I mean you helped me spend a few bucks so I figured I should repay the favor.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well I got home today and found the wind had ripped the front storm door from its hinges. Smashed the window and so on. While cleaning it up the Fedex guy stopped by. My Dies, sizer, mould and two Mags showed up. Not bad two days from when I pushed the button. Still waiting on the upper. Tracking puts it here Monday night.

I was not aware Lee had stopped putting lube in with the sizers. I do not plan on using it but I do give it out to help out new casters. Oh well now I know.

The Polymer80 50 Beowulf mags are junk. What do you want for 10 bucks. I think this is just a front for a 30 round mag marked 10. Mag follower is not even centered like the Beowulf is sposta be. I scraped some of the flashing off to get it to fit into the mag well. They are not going to fall out that is for sure. Still waiting on brass. Guess its time to fire up the lead pot. Oh wait I can not since it will not stop raining.

I read that the 50BW was based off the 50AE but for some reason 50AE brass will not fit in the shell holder Lee shipped. When I get the brass I will know for sure. Humm I think I will check on the brasses whereabouts now.

[Gunslinger1911]

When it rains, it pours ! haha

Too bad about the mags, sounds like you are a tinkerer, like me. Maybe they can be tinkered with.

Lee prob had to ditch the lube or raise the price. Dunno how many people use it, I always grumped I had to pay for it and had no use for it. (I give it away to needy folks too).

I read a couple places that the 50BW is "based " on the 50 AE. Kinda, sorta, maybe.
50 AE is a 50 cal case with a rebated rim the size of a 44 mag rim. Hence you don't have to change the bolt face on the slide of a DE between 50 and 44 mag. I'm supposing here, don't own an Eagel, but shell plate for 50ae and 44 mag are the same on my Dillon.
50BW is a 50 cal case with a rebated rim the size of 7.62x39. Hence fairly common 7.62x39 AR bolt is what you use for 50BW.

So the 50 BW case BODY is a stretched out 50AE case body, the case head uses the same theory for both (rebated rim) just different sizes.

Reason being, 50 AE case head is too big for an AR bolt - not enough metal left after milling out for that fat thing . Tromix tried, I REALLY wanted a 50 AE AR. Bolts kept breaking.

SO I got a 45ACP AR upper and called it good enough..........until I heard about the 50BW, then had to have one of them.

[Outer Rondacker]

Would it be weird if I said this is not the first time I had to sand a mag to get it to fit correctly. LOL I got them working. Well fitting anyway. I still do not have any ammo to put in them.

Does not look like the GB seller is going to send out any kinda shipping email. I guess it will just show up when it does. (hopes for tomorrow)

I wonder how hard it would be to HP this 440 lee mould? Im thinking one way or another this mould is making bullets tomorrow rain or shine. (take my lead pot an mould to a neighbors garage if I have to.

Oh and heck while I am on a rant. The Lee dies do not even have any load data on them.

[Gunslinger1911]

Unfortunately, I have sanded mags also.

You made me realize I didn't get shipping info on the brass either. Just thanks for your $ - it's on the way. Oh well. Midway / Brownells spoils us !

On the mould, have you seen the sticky in "Moulds - maint and design" about how to hp your mould ? Looks do-able.

Yea, for a cartridge that's been around something like 10 years, there is a serious lack of data. I kind of jinned what I needed from the Alex Arms site data.

[Lloyd Smale]

buy yourself any ar15 mag with an anti tip follower and your good to go in a beo. At least in mine anyway.

[Outer Rondacker]

Ya about that. I live in NYS. So I would only be able to get a 10 round 223 mag if I did it that way. I think it would only hold three 50s maybe 4. This is why I bought the specially marked 50 Beowulf mag to hold 10. I did get a 20 round steel 5.56 mag given to me. Works great but I only have the base plate at the moment. I have to epoxy the stamped part over and smooth it off then remark it 50 BW. Then it will be legal in NYS as long as no one ever puts 223/5.56 rounds in it.

This is what happens when you let stupid people make stupid laws.

Optic Planet has the slowest shipping known to man kind. My upper sat in WI for three days at a Fedex building. I just hope it shows up unharmed.

[Ramjet-SS]

I shoot anything from monolithic bullets to 460 WFN cast from my SOCOM. It is a pure thumper think of semi auto 45-70!!!!! My 450 Bushmaster are Ruger bolt guns they MOA very accurate and fun to shoot. Realistically both are easy to reload and fun to shoot. The 450 are lighter and easier to carry all day hunting than the 458 SOCOM but pure hammer and power the SOCOM wins out it is very very accurate. Bullets are just as available for either caliber. Heck blew 300 grain HP for the 458 can be had at very low costs. Starline makes the brass but for hunting gun the 450 BM wins out its lighter hit hard enough.

I will tell the caliber that gets may attention is the 458 necked down to 375 making a 375 SOCOM now that has my interest.......

[Dirtjumper895]

I agree on the load data, if you PM me your email, I'll send you a few pages of load data I saved from another website a few years back. Most of my load data now is derived from using simular loads and quickload, then working up/down with a Chrono. I prefer to run lower pressure loads with the wulf, as it helps with brass life. Ive had issues with hot loads and the case length shortening enough to not want to fire due to the case headspacing off the mouth.

[adcoch1]

As of last night starline has brass for all three, 450bushmaster was cheapest, then 50beowulf, then 458 socom az most expensive at 65cents a piece for 1k

[Lloyd Smale]

there probably scared to send it to NY in case they've changed there laws again today. Most of my AR mags aren't marked for capasicty or even caliber. Why couldn't you take a 30 round 556 mag and an engraver and label it a 50 beo mag? Heck even my 50 beo mag i got from alexander arms isn't marked 50 beo. If you want the alexander arms floor plate send me a different one and ill put it in the mail to you. With that floor plate its not different then what alexander arms sells.
Ya about that. I live in NYS. So I would only be able to get a 10 round 223 mag if I did it that way. I think it would only hold three 50s maybe 4. This is why I bought the specially marked 50 Beowulf mag to hold 10. I did get a 20 round steel 5.56 mag given to me. Works great but I only have the base plate at the moment. I have to epoxy the stamped part over and smooth it off then remark it 50 BW. Then it will be legal in NYS as long as no one ever puts 223/5.56 rounds in it.

This is what happens when you let stupid people make stupid laws.

Optic Planet has the slowest shipping known to man kind. My upper sat in WI for three days at a Fedex building. I just hope it shows up unharmed.

[Outer Rondacker]

Llyod I might take you up on that. Funny thing is I just checked the shipping status and it is delayed another day. Delivery date got pushed back again.

I understand what you are saying about taking a regular 5.56 mag and just changing the label. Problem is no one will fess up to owning one and if they do its not for sale. No one will ship mags over 10 rounds to NYS so I can not get one to mod. I am going to take this 20 round steel body GI mag and label it 50 Beowulf. Mag plate states 5.56. I was thinking of epoxying over it to fill in the stamping. Acid etching the side.

I did get an email out to P80 mag company. They claim they are overwhelmed with 80% lower and glock frame sales. They can not keep up so response time is slow. I honestly do not care as they where 10 dollars each.

[rockrat]

Gunslinger1911----There are some 50ae uppers out there. I know, cause I have one. No trouble so far.

[Outer Rondacker]

Gunslinger1911 let me know if your brass comes in please. I still have not received anything.

So the fedex man showed up with another package from OP. As he was about to leave I said why did this get here faster then my other box I have been waiting on. Told him the story. He said hold on. Opened up the back of the truck and handed me a box my upper was in. He said this was not sposta be delivered until next week but since you asked. He said dont ask me as I just do what the computer tells me to.

Anyhow. I have a upper. Yay, and its in 50 yay. Plastic mag will not lock the bolt back with an empty mag in it. Oh well. Still waiting on brass and then its good try out. Oh and some load data.

Edit post for this info. If anyone is thinking of buying this upper I suggest getting the one with the shorter rail. This thing is heavy. Makes the gun front heavy. Of course I have not put a loaded mag to it yet so that might change.

[Lloyd Smale]

beos are a bit heavier then a standard ar15. About between an ar15 and an ar10 in weight. Mostly due to the heavier barrel need to go 50 cal. Mine just has a plain forearm and no rail and its front heavy.
Gunslinger1911 let me know if your brass comes in please. I still have not received anything.

So the fedex man showed up with another package from OP. As he was about to leave I said why did this get here faster then my other box I have been waiting on. Told him the story. He said hold on. Opened up the back of the truck and handed me a box my upper was in. He said this was not sposta be delivered until next week but since you asked. He said dont ask me as I just do what the computer tells me to.

Anyhow. I have a upper. Yay, and its in 50 yay. Plastic mag will not lock the bolt back with an empty mag in it. Oh well. Still waiting on brass and then its good try out. Oh and some load data.

Edit post for this info. If anyone is thinking of buying this upper I suggest getting the one with the shorter rail. This thing is heavy. Makes the gun front heavy. Of course I have not put a loaded mag to it yet so that might change.

[Outer Rondacker]

I guess since this thread is about three cals vs one another I will put what I feel is a conn against the 50 BW. Very little load data.

I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas day. Waiting on brass.

[Dirtjumper895]

Some of this data is from websites that are no longer working. As always start low. It should give a good starting point for selecting powders.

219560

219561

219562

Enjoy.

[Outer Rondacker]

Thank you Dirtjumper895. If anyone else has some load data on the 50 please post it up. It would be a great help to me. Thanks

[adcoch1]

A comment on mags, after looking at a few big bore mags I believe a little dremel work may be necessary on a standard 5.56 mag to feed a wide meplat bullet design in one of these bigger cartridges. The front shelf, and possibly the front corners of the feed lips may need some sanding to get reliable feeding. I don't have real experience with the big bores yet though, so this is just opinion after looking the mags over closely...

[tobywan45]

A comment on mags, after looking at a few big bore mags I believe a little dremel work may be necessary on a standard 5.56 mag to feed a wide meplat bullet design in one of these bigger cartridges. The front shelf, and possibly the front corners of the feed lips may need some sanding to get reliable feeding. I don't have real experience with the big bores yet though, so this is just opinion after looking the mags over closely...Yes depending on the style of Mag. The front edge will have to get radiused and the lips relieved a bit,. And on some of them it's best to replace the feed ramp, at least with my 458 SOCOM

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Outer Rondacker]

I own a dremel. :bigsmyl2: Plastic mags from P80 suck. To be honest P80 has been crummy for CS. Mail them to us. We will look at them. If we feel they are not defects you need to pay the return shipping. Um how about I just tell everyone my dealings with you.

[Gunslinger1911]

Back again, out of town since Friday - brass was here ! Yay
Shot the cannon a bit over the weekend - O. M. G. !!!
Now we're talkin !!
Kinda picky what it wanted to chamber, not sure if case length or oal depending on bullet issue.
With the load data from Alex Arms site, (can't remember who here said it, but was right) feels like a 45/70 Guide Gun with comparable bullet and velocity.
A big hit with my buddies.

[Outer Rondacker]

Brass is said to be here tomorrow. oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. What weight bullet where you shooting Gunslinger?

[Gunslinger1911]

I had some 325 and 350g jacketed left over from before I cast for the 500 Smith. Prob doing 1800 f/s or so. I shot at a 12" ar500 gong (10 lbs or so) hanging from 12" chains from a 2x4. Square hit flipped the gong over the 2x4 .

[Gunslinger1911]

Did I read that the package was on the truck, but wasn't supposed to deliver till a later date ?

[adcoch1]

I swear you guys are gonna cost me some money.... Been looking at big bore ar stuff ever since this thread started!

[Gunslinger1911]

Haha, I think it's a sub-addiction of our gun/casting/reloading addiction.
Had a 223 for decades, didn't shoot it much; loud, expensive ammo, to me a pain to reload.
Got a match grade .22 upper - fun.
Got a 45acp upper - way fun.
50 Beo - off the charts fun.

[Outer Rondacker]

Did I read that the package was on the truck, but wasn't supposed to deliver till a later date ?Ya you read that correctly. But I got it from him.


I swear you guys are gonna cost me some money.... Been looking at big bore ar stuff ever since this thread started! If I where you and I had to do this over again. I might look around my reloading room for what I can already cast and projectiles I have before I buy one of the three. What I am saying is.... Just buying the gun cost a good number. Then getting brass, mould, sizer and dies. Also in my case a mags. It was a bundle. So after I sat here for a day with a complete gun waiting on components I realized if it was a 450 bushmaster I have loads of projectiles. Just saying its something to think about. For me the gun fills two gaps for me. One I needed a big bore something. Two and most important. Friday night a the club becomes AR fest. As many know I hate AR fest. Well when they all pull out there 50 mile fly shooting back flip doing ar's I can grab mine. Enough said. If I did not have reason number two I would of gone 450 bushmaster never 458. That is just me.

But if a 50 it must be by all means let me know I will share where I got the best deals I could in hopes to spend your pennies with you. :Fire:

[Outer Rondacker]

Haha, I think it's a sub-addiction of our gun/casting/reloading addiction.
Had a 223 for decades, didn't shoot it much; loud, expensive ammo, to me a pain to reload.
Got a match grade .22 upper - fun.
Got a 45acp upper - way fun.
50 Beo - off the charts fun.

Ya I had a 5.56 for a week. Well maybe two. Had a 7.62 upper that my buddy now has. That was better. Built a 300BLK for a guy that was just stupid in my mind. We can not have suppressors why he wanted it I have no clue. This brings me to my current one. 50BW. Man that forward tube is sharp on the edges.

I am not looking into dust covers. I need to find one that will fit. I want the name BIG 50 on the outside and GAME OVERon the inside

[adcoch1]

I have neither a 45 pistol or rifle, but I plan on a 45-70 or 45 Lott in the future, so 458 socom makes sense. If I could find out for sure that the extension and bolts I've been finding will hold up I'd build a 44x1.8" based on the 308 case, cause I have LOTS of 44 stuff sitting around here... Might need to talk it over with Moleman again, he's built a few 44 ar's

[Outer Rondacker]

Hum what is this a ar in 44 you say. Once I recover from this purchase might have to look into that. I have loads of 44 mag stuff and 357 stuff.

[Gunslinger1911]

44x1.8 hmmmmm. Looks like .308 blown out to straight wall .44. 444 Marlin dies to load.

[Gunslinger1911]

Rockrat, you dog ! I looked around the ether for a while on those - Tromix I'll guess ?
Ended up with a 45acp upper - close enough.
I read around there were some issues - this being the interwebs and all.

[Gunslinger1911]

I know it takes time to get goodies from Slovenia, 10 days has been the average in the past. But, this is a looooong 10 days (8 so far). Me wantum 385g hp .50 mould !

[adcoch1]

Yeah 44x1.8" is a rimless straightwall 308 case based auto version of the 444marlin. In a bolt gun it'll outperform the old 444, but in an auto you need a strong bolt and extension. Tromix may be the answer. I even have a 44 barrel blank here, but a reamer might be the cost prohibiting part. A reamer costs about as much as a cheap 458 socom barrel...

[Outer Rondacker]

Gunslinger another day down.

adcoch1 if you can get it to work it sounds like one smoking round. I have never reamed a barrel. Heck I thought the barrel cost enough you would have 2xs the cost into your barrel.

[Gunslinger1911]

Well, lookie what showed up at work Monday - I was out with the flu - figures.
I'll cast and post pix ASAP.

[Outer Rondacker]

Now that is a thing of beauty. My Brass was sitting on my doorstep when I got home from bidding a job.

[frankenfab]

You are right about the lack of load data. I just settled in on the loads on Alexander Arms website for the Ranier plated projectiles. The Beowulf hits so hard, there are no magic combinations needed. I actually felt like the starting load from AA was a little hot on the last batch I loaded. Its hard to tell. You may get some pierced primers. I'm not talking black soot everywhere. It just looks like someone took a sharpie and colored the indentation.

I am told this is because we are using pistol primers. I bought a new firing pin to shorten by .002", but haven't gotten around to doing it.

I have a 458 Socom as well, but the 50 is my favorite.

[Outer Rondacker]

I just got in. Club meeting ran late. Good news I get to destroy the outdoor range at my club and steel all the lead.

I sized a piece of new brass then this question hit me. Should I be sizing new brass? Do I have to size new brass? I know it didnt size very easy.

[frankenfab]

It doesn't hurt to, and you did it without sticking a case. Way to go!

You need to get a Sheridan Engineering case gage from AA. You can check the case, and the loaded round with it. Totally worth it. I gage every round.

[Outer Rondacker]

How did you know sir. I loaded the ladder with 10 rounds and only one chambered. Did not fire any yet. I am seeing small smiles on one side of the brass from the bullet seating. Not sure why or what is going on here. In all my days of loading never came across this. Heck I even put a sized case in the upper and hand closed the bolt. Can not open it without using something to lightly pry back the bolt.

I feel like its a fail at the moment. I was really looking forward to tossing some lead down range to make me feel better about dropping all this loot.

Common really, 70 some dollars for a case gauge. That is just nuts.

[frankenfab]

The case gage is $33.00 and worth every penny. I also buy a box of factory 335 grain once every coupie years to keep as a baseline.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well mine is headed back to the factory. Loaded up a simple dummy round and checked the specs all the way. Loaded a 325g bullet to 2.100 and let the bolt close slowly. It was stuck. I had to take apart the gun and work the bolt back with a thick piece of plastic at my pry bar. Not much force needed but it came back and left the bullet in the barrel.

Radical firearms was great on the phone. They claimed you need to use their mag or it will not work. I called BS. Guy on the phone kinda sided with me. Can not hurt to send it back. I have been told it will come back with a few mags either way so let it get checked out.

Edit: After 25 mins of searching I found where you can get one for $33.00 plus 13.13 Making one $46.13.

[adcoch1]

Well that sucks, hopefully its something obvious they find and fix for you.

[Outer Rondacker]

Honestly I think the Head Space is off. Like I said brand new sized brass empty will not chamber fully. Length 1.650. I hope they find something wrong to be honest. What gets me is I know its been fired. It came dirty. He said that does not mater they might have fired it out of battery. I do not know about that but could be.

Call me cheap I still do not want to pay almost 50 bucks for a plunk gauge. Price only goes up $1.00 dollar on shipping if I add two boxes of ammo. $100.24. Kinda goes against everything I stand for in reloading. I do not own more then two boxes of factory ammo that I have purchased.

[DDriller]

Always resize new brass and best to trim all to same length.

[Outer Rondacker]

After the first piece of brass they sized fine. I think I just needed to get the case lube on the die. I wish the lyman die set was available when I ordered the lee set. It came with a plunker.

I admit it very well could be my reloads. With that said I only can recall once I had an issue with 45 acp having to change projectiles.

Case gauge will have to wait I am kinda on the light side at the moment. Need to re-coop a bit.

[Lloyd Smale]

be aware that lee had a first batch of 50 beo dies that were way out of spec. The fact its taking excessive pressure to size makes me suspicious that you have a bad set because I had a set of bad ones that acted the same. Couple things cause those little smiles on the mouth of your brass. Trying to seat a bullet without enough flare in the case and having your seating die adjusted incorrectly so that its crimping before the bullet is all the way seated. Also beos have a realitively short chamber and you need to seat bullets a bit deep to have them run a 100percent especially with some cast bullet designs with a larger metplat. On last thing. Don't over crimp. Set your crimp die till it just irons out the expanded case mouth then give it another 1/4 of a turn. If your not already doing this stuff give it a try and if it doesn't work shoot me a pm and ill size a piece of brass and send it to you and you can see if it chambers in your gun.

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks Lloyd. I will be calling Lee today just to check the date stamp on the dies and make sure it not out of spec. Sizing was only hard on the first case. Like I said I think I just needed a bit more lube. After that the rest went smoothly. As for the smile I think it was because of not flaring the case mouth enough. I did not want to work the brass to much. I do not do any case crimp on the seating die just smooth out the flare. I was crimping by running the ram with bullet all the way up and screwing down the die. Then adding one half turn tighter. I can back that off a bit. I was loading factory 325g J HP bullets to 2.100. I then tried one at 2.030 and still would not go.

When I finally called it done and I have an issue is when it would not chamber a new sized empty piece of brass. Then having that brass stuck in the barrel so bad I had to force it out just put the icing on the cake.

[adcoch1]

That really sounds like a bad or short chamber to me. Hard to tell without hands on though, hopefully they get it fixed and you can get to shooting!

[Gunslinger1911]

Hey Rondacker,
You remember my issues with sizing new Starline brass, had to SOAK the brass in lube, still ripped the heads off 4 cases. Wasn't smart enough to look at the sizer till later - striations all around the interior (no final polishing I guess).

In my conversations with Lee, an "A7" on the sizer did not have any reports of issues.
But I had looked at the wrong die, my sizer had "L6" on it - didn't get an answer back. LOL

Sent Lee the die last Thursday, I have to check the tracking, I'd guess they got it by now, no word.

FS Reloading sells the sizer alone for around $15, may just have to get one.

The Starline brass was just out of spec long, also varied in length.
I haven't had time to even open the bag of the brass you "made me buy" lol
Maybe this weekend

[Outer Rondacker]

My sizer has an "K7" on it. Its smooth and brass sizes fine. I size then rotate one 1/4 turn and size again.

Still have not got my RMA from Radical Firearms. Called them today they said they would call back in a few mins. That was five hours ago. Going to call them again.

It does look short but its so hard to tell on an AR upper without a go, no go gauge.

Edit: Just got off the phone with the CS guy. Called him on his personal cell phone. He is going to issue my ticket for return first thing in the morning.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup if you don't flare enough and get those "smiles" ammo for about any gun isn't going to run.
Thanks Lloyd. I will be calling Lee today just to check the date stamp on the dies and make sure it not out of spec. Sizing was only hard on the first case. Like I said I think I just needed a bit more lube. After that the rest went smoothly. As for the smile I think it was because of not flaring the case mouth enough. I did not want to work the brass to much. I do not do any case crimp on the seating die just smooth out the flare. I was crimping by running the ram with bullet all the way up and screwing down the die. Then adding one half turn tighter. I can back that off a bit. I was loading factory 325g J HP bullets to 2.100. I then tried one at 2.030 and still would not go.

When I finally called it done and I have an issue is when it would not chamber a new sized empty piece of brass. Then having that brass stuck in the barrel so bad I had to force it out just put the icing on the cake.

[Outer Rondacker]

Ya I only got it on the first couple. Pulled them and fixed it. Had a brain fart as to why.

[Outer Rondacker]

Sent it out. It will get there on 5/10. By then I wish to get some of the Lee 440 cast up and PCed. I also am dying to try my new 303 mould.

[Gunslinger1911]

Well Lee has had my sizer a week and no word..........
Prob just order sizer alone from FS, check it for smooth, if not, return for another.

On another note : I present the MiHec 385 :
HP's are about 380g, solid about 390.

Little ole 45-200 hp on left; 50-325 j word on right for perspective

[Outer Rondacker]

Looks great.

Mine not so good. I forgot the fundamentals. It has been a long time since I used a lee pot. Of course it came out slow and off to the side. So I will have to address that issue. Cast about 30 bullets and 29 came out wrinkled. Its one heck of a bullet though.

So I know the mould was HOT. Could of made the pot hotter. Temp gauge is packed in a box.

Gunslinger what is your count on these big bullets?

[Gunslinger1911]

First off, I dissed Lee too soon, newly polished sizer was in the mailbox today. Looks MUCH better !

Rondaker - I had all kinds of wrinkles at first - thought I didn't get all the cutting fluid out (or MiHa changed to a diff fluid).
As per your comment, back to basics, heat the pot up. This also took the minor few wrinkles out of the new MiHa 44 mould.
With my alloy (range scrap with 1% added antimony and maybe 1/4 % tin) I run my RCBS pot at 725 deg (pot temp floats 700 - 750 deg).
Cranked it up to just short of max - averaged about 775 deg - no wrinkles !
Also cranked open the spout a half inch more.

Gotta give the mould lots of time to cool or goes frosty and loose sharp edges.

I prob got 3-4 dozen good ones after all the fussing around.
Pic is horrible, they actually look great !

[Outer Rondacker]

Came across this while surfing the net. For those looking to get a 458 socom the price does not seam to bad.
https://www.midstatefirearms.com/16-458-Socom-Ar15-Hbar-Upper-Receiver-16-458socom1.htm

I know nothing about the company or the build just posting for the ones who need some click bait.

I will be talking to Radical today and seeing if they had a chance to look at my upper yet. Will post back with results.

[Outer Rondacker]

Not sure how I feel about this. Just got off the phone with radical firearms and they said my upper is set to ship back to me tomorrow. They used their mag and loaded five rounds into it. Dropped the bolt and pulled the trigger. I asked if they checked how far it went into the chamber first. They said it didnt mater it fired. Humm. I guess I am a fool or at least they think so. I hope they are full of it and had to do some work to it.

He did say some of the barrel coating might have got in there????? No clue why he added this. Oh well it will be here some time next week I guess. I will keep you all updated for the ones who care to hear.

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well I would do some more shopping around as by the time you add bolt , charging handle and muzzle brake price is over 500 . look at this one and there are others out there. https://shoretactical.com/product/517/ , brass from arms and ally formerly monmouth was cheapest I could find , got a aero precision upper for 458 and a toolcraft bolt just before the recent panic and the increase in prices , that 50 beowolf does sound enticing , but I do not know if I want to go any deeper down this rabbit hole . And another note muzzle brakes vary in price for these threads and caliber , I have 5x24 and 5x32 and am waiting on 3 brakes from fritz-tactical . I keep coming back to this thread so keep up the posts .

[Gunslinger1911]

Keep the faith Rondacker !!! I thought I had major chamber issues - turned out a bad batch of brass from Midway (Star Line).
The brass I got from your suggestion chambers great !

[Outer Rondacker]

Keep the faith Rondacker !!! I thought I had major chamber issues - turned out a bad batch of brass from Midway (Star Line).
The brass I got from your suggestion chambers great !What the what? Keep the faith. Then the brass is great. Oh man. Ok what does your new Lee sizer Die have stamped on it? Ah forget it Lee said K7 is good to go.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well I would do some more shopping around as by the time you add bolt , charging handle and muzzle brake price is over 500 . look at this one and there are others out there. https://shoretactical.com/product/517/ , brass from arms and ally formerly monmouth was cheapest I could find , got a aero precision upper for 458 and a toolcraft bolt just before the recent panic and the increase in prices , that 50 beowolf does sound enticing , but I do not know if I want to go any deeper down this rabbit hole . And another note muzzle brakes vary in price for these threads and caliber , I have 5x24 and 5x32 and am waiting on 3 brakes from fritz-tactical . I keep coming back to this thread so keep up the posts .

Thank god its out of stock. That looks like a good price.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I know you already have the 50beowolf but as a heads up bear creek arsenal has 450 bushmaster uppers complete for 299.90 plus shipping flat rate adds another 10 , 875 gas block diameter on one and 750 diameter on other ,Makes me want to give one a shot .

[Outer Rondacker]

I hate you! No just joking. If I had the money at the moment it would be shipped already. That is a good deal. I do not understand why the different size gas blocks. What is the normal size? Is it better to get one or the other? I might stumble and find a few pennies to grab one of these.

[adcoch1]

Ahhh! That is to affordable! 299 for a 450... I am gonna go broke. Btw, the .875 gas block is for a heavier profile barrel, the .750 is standard, but makes for a pretty light profile on a big bore.

[Outer Rondacker]

Ahhh! That is to affordable! 299 for a 450... I am gonna go broke. Btw, the .875 gas block is for a heavier profile barrel, the .750 is standard, but makes for a pretty light profile on a big bore.

Ya so what one did you order? I was thinking lighter myself. Just got done digging in the change jar. Ya for real I have a half 5 gal water jug full. Looks like it might house 300 or so. Good lord I just found an extra 200 without hitting the change jar. So what one did you order.

[corbinace]

I know you already have the 50beowolf but as a heads up bear creek arsenal has 450 bushmaster uppers complete for 299.90 plus shipping flat rate adds another 10 , 875 gas block diameter on one and 750 diameter on other ,Makes me want to give one a shot .

You guys must have promoted them too well. They are out of stock now.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I see they are out of stock on both ,at that price it does not surprise me , I myself like the heavier barrels,but some options are more limited by the heavy barrels .

[Outer Rondacker]

Thank god. I was going to take a trip to the bank today. Now I do not have to.

[Outer Rondacker]

Oh I almost forgot. Yesterday the FEDEX called me saying they had a package that needed to be signed for today. So the fedex guy comes around 4:30pm. I should be dropping the bolt by 5pm. Update to follow.

Crosses phalanges and hopes it chambers a round.

[Outer Rondacker]

Fedex man showed up. I signed and ran in the house. Opened the box grabbed my lower. Next I grabbed the same mag I had loaded from before..... dropped the charging lever and its good. Now I need to cycle the rest of the mag and see what happens.

The box had two factory Mags from RF. So far so good. I am happy to report the company is a straight shooter so far. Test to follow. Well 10 bullets worth as that is all the projectiles I have at the moment.

[adcoch1]

I haven't ordered one yet, but my wife gets nervous when I check this thread.... I keep hearing about all the stuff we need more than gun parts...

[FLINTNFIRE]

Yeah stuff we need is more gun and reloading parts , makes me want to get one to , I am waiting for the range report , I myself never felt the urge for a AR till during the clinton years , bought one and picked up 2 lowers later , assembled those and years later son is out of Navy , he is talking up the 300 blackout . I had told a co worker about them the prior december and he got one and put in for the can . So I picked up a 300 blackout and since then being single it has been parts , 458 socom and more reloading and casting stuff . Would not have room for a wife with all the reloading and parts. So keep up the reports as I think these bigger caliber AR styles are pretty fun.

[Outer Rondacker]

You guys want a laugh. In all the hub bub I forgot to order a set of sights. My upper has a flat top so I guess I will just drop on a red dot for now. Really need to get a cheap set of flip up irons. I think this guy would be a blast with irons.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well I just got back from the range. I had to do a job around the corner so I took the 12.7 with me. Charged it and let 7 bullets fly. I mean fly. No sights, the red dot I had put on was to low to look though. I then fired off two more without a hitch. After looking at the brass I think I will polish the chamber. 2/3s of the way back towards the primer side are little ring lines. Not enough to catch a fingernail on but shinny in the sunlight.

Oh and who ever said it does not kick to bad is correct. It is a different kinda hit. It HURT. This cheap old stock is coming off and I will be looking around for one of the fixed ones or one of the wire looking ones. Not this plastic thing that looks like its a meat grinder on the back side. All and all I like it. I just wish I had made the move to the new house so I could unload boxes and find my PC stuff. I have a lead pot out and some moulds but none of the PC stuff to coat. I might have to check Midway and see if they have some cheap projectiles I can load up.

[Gunslinger1911]

Hey Rondacker, glad you had good news ! New and unusual toys are fun, huh ?
The new brass hand cycles great in mine, range day is Sunday.
Yea, has an unusual recoil. The "meat tenderizer" butt of my lower was not fun. I just got a John Masen rubber piece for the butt, seems like it should help a lot.

Got the new mould figured out, been working on some boolets for the 500 for my son.
Seeing as how I kind of talked you out of a 45 for a 50, how about I send you some PC coated (I use Smoke's clear) of the new MiHa 385g ? HP, solid, mix, your choice.

[adcoch1]

Good news! Glad it's running for ya. Put a grind to fit buttpad on the stock and it'll be comfy to shoot. I don't like the cheap stocks in warm weather, shooting in a t shirt, even with 5.56 recoil, is uncomfortable and chafing, but my hunting rifles that kick ten times as much are fine with a buttpad.

[Outer Rondacker]

Hey Rondacker, glad you had good news ! New and unusual toys are fun, huh ?
The new brass hand cycles great in mine, range day is Sunday.
Yea, has an unusual recoil. The "meat tenderizer" butt of my lower was not fun. I just got a John Masen rubber piece for the butt, seems like it should help a lot.

Got the new mould figured out, been working on some boolets for the 500 for my son.
Seeing as how I kind of talked you out of a 45 for a 50, how about I send you some PC coated (I use Smoke's clear) of the new MiHa 385g ? HP, solid, mix, your choice.Honestly I am like most men. I was most likely going to always go as big as I could. I thank you for the offer. Ill send you a pm we can work out something. Thanks

In see the Ruger 450B in my future. Still not a big fan of the AR stuff. One will do. We will have that talk when it happens. LOL


Good news! Glad it's running for ya. Put a grind to fit buttpad on the stock and it'll be comfy to shoot. I don't like the cheap stocks in warm weather, shooting in a t shirt, even with 5.56 recoil, is uncomfortable and chafing, but my hunting rifles that kick ten times as much are fine with a buttpad.

Ya that meat grinder on the end has to go. I have red-purple dots on my right side from that thing. I do not like the cheap plastic ones anyway. I am more of a fixed guy.

[Outer Rondacker]

Had a chance to shoot a 450 BM in the Ruger bolt action. Nice gun. I think I will put it on the wish list once things settle down in my life. I feel it has almost no kick compared to the 50 BW. Next week I will try a 458 socom. I will do a pros and conns of all three from my point of view afterwards. This will be from a shooters point of view not a reloaders.

[Outer Rondacker]

I just learned my Beowulf might have to go bye bye. The laws are Grey and very hard to understand here in NYS. SO from what I am being told I can not have a muzzle brake on my upper. My lower that is not in my house at this time can not have the AR MAG LOCK on it and be legal. My lower can not take a removable mag. My lower can not have a pistol grip. The list of laws goes on and on. I was told by the State police hotline that they do not stand by if I ran a fixed mag with the mag lock it was OK to have evil features. Like a muzzle brake. Oh boy. I will have to read up more on the laws and figure this out as I am not going to have a illegal in my house.


Maybe I will get lucky and Mr Alexandra will see my post and sell me a 50 Beowulf Bolt action at and affordable price. I can not swing the price he stated at shot show.