Talk to me about faith

[histed]

Scripture says that we walk by faith, not by sight. I've heard preachers and even read here that we need to "turn our lives over the Christ" - even said it myself. Got to admit that, though I've been a Christian for a long time, I haven't lived a consistent life and now, well, I'm just not sure what this really means. How do we walk by faith? Is this the "blank check" I've heard preachers refer to? If it is, how do you know if you've actually signed it? I try to live as I think God wants me to live... I'm just confused, I guess.

[Ickisrulz]

The New Testament expects believers to trust in Christ for salvation and then live a life that reflects the teachings of Christ and the Apostles. In short, this means loving God and loving our neighbors. Loving God means attempting to do what is pleasing to him and loving our neighbors means doing what is best for them even if we must sacrifice to do so.

[wv109323]

Faith is beleiving in a God we can not see or touch. That belief is so strong that we do not want to violate any of his commandments. If we have an absolute faith then it will affect how me behave. Proper behavior is obedience.

[GhostHawk]

I prefer to say it a different way.

Lay ALL your troubles and burdens at the Lords feet. Leave them there.
Take up his yoke, your faith, the Holy Spirit, and peace like a river will show you when you take a step in the right direction, and when wrong.

The LORD is the master, serve him. Serve ONLY him.

Now I am a firm believer that the Lord helps those who help themselves.
Those who are prepared to meet with almost anything. Tools, knowledge, water, food on hand with enough for you and yours, and enough to share.

But don't get caught up in the material world. All of this world shall pass away.
We take none of it with us when we go. Nothing material.

Build your treasure in heaven by doing good works in HIS name. By helping those you meet along the way. Byvisiting those infirm or in prison, feeding the hungry, healing the sick, comforting those who need comforting.

That treasure shall not pass away.

Hard to do. But try.

Remember to love, to judge not, to forgive, yes even turn the other cheek and forgive again.

We all fail, stumble, and fall daily. But we are trying. And progress is made a little at a time.

Cleanse your heart of all ill feelings, grudges, hate, of any sort. Take each one out, look at it as Jesus would. See where the pain comes from, understand it, forgive it. Then let it go. Once you have a clean, pure heart go to your knees in prayer. Ask to be washed clean in the blood of the Lamb. Ask for the holy spirit to come live in your clean heart. Keep it clean.

Some things you will probably need help with, I did. Ask for it, ask and it shall be granted. Knock and the door shall open.

Walk in the light!

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I try to live as I think God wants me to live....

I think you already know the answer.

[Bazoo]

I go through the same thing. I imagine every christian does in one way or another, or at one time or another.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. romans 10:17

For me, that is not just going to church or reading the bible, but reminding myself and or reciting of scripture. Such as, John 3:16 or psalm 23. Whenever I am feeling down I remind myself and it helps me a lot.

[histed]

I think you already know the answer.

Could be. But I wrote this because I often feel that I'm just spinning my wheels, so to speak. Like I'm not getting as close to Him as I want to be and it isn't He who moved.

"Cleanse your heart of all ill feelings, grudges, hate, of any sort. Take each one out, look at it as Jesus would. See where the pain comes from, understand it, forgive it. Then let it go." Getting there, GhostHawk. It's the letting go that's hard. I put it down, only to discover I've picked it back up again - hence my current questions about the depth of my faith.

[rl69]

Did Christ die to bring you into his covenant? Do you believe? We can never measure up stop trying. Be still, listen, he will hear you. He loved you so much he gave his Son to die for you.

[Char-Gar]

Could be. But I wrote this because I often feel that I'm just spinning my wheels, so to speak. Like I'm not getting as close to Him as I want to be and it isn't He who moved.

"Cleanse your heart of all ill feelings, grudges, hate, of any sort. Take each one out, look at it as Jesus would. See where the pain comes from, understand it, forgive it. Then let it go." Getting there, GhostHawk. It's the letting go that's hard. I put it down, only to discover I've picked it back up again - hence my current questions about the depth of my faith.

After initial salvation comes a life time of growing in God's Grace. There will be peaks and valleys in our faith journey. There will be success and there will be failure. We just keep on moving forward and pressing on to the full glory that is in Christ Jesus. Best of all, God will be with us every step of he way, through the peaks and especially in the valleys. Just relax and enjoy the journey. The end will come soon enough and we will be with Jesus and all the Saints.

[Goatwhiskers]

To put it simply: "He has shown thee, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of thee, but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God." Or to put it another way: "Be still, and know that I am God."

[Thundarstick]

histed, there's been a lot of good stuff pitched so far, but the "let go" comment made my ears perk up. You see it was many years before I learned that one! I heard, let go and let God, so I would, then God didn't fix it fast enough, or to please me, and I'd take it back. I'd fret over it, worry about it, manipulate, beg, and threaten to have it my way, then when it got too hot, heavy, or painful to bear, I'd pray about it then let God have it again.
My point is that my faith has grown, not because I blindly believe, but because I exercise my faith! To me, faith is like a muscle, the more I exercise it, the stronger it gets. The secret for me has been learning to seek what God wants from me and for me. I ask him for that!
Remember, you don't follow a blind faith in an unknowable god, you follow a God that had been revealed to us through his son Christ Jesus! God is revealed to man, and that same Jesus is our intercessior to this very day!

Anyone want their faith to grow? Then find a way to use it and it will get stronger!!

[Wayne Smith]

And how or why should I turn everything over to someone I don't know? The American Church has made the mistake of focusing on the theology of man rather than the theology of God - consequently we don't know God. Start studying the theology of God and it will become clear - start with J I Packer's Knowing God and then read some of the theologians he quotes in that book. I found I could download all 46 of Arthur Pink's writings to my kindle for $9.95! Study to show yourself approved - Paul's advice to Timothy applies to all of us.

[pmer]

Here is a simple Faith exercise that someone can do if they can feel they're in a flat spot. Think back in your life to a point when somebody did something nice for you. Then send them a note or give them a call and just to say thank you and bless you for being there to help me.
One time I reached back twenty years to a friend for helping me out when the clutch for my Harley came apart. He dropped everything on a Saturday and came out with a special tool and got me back on the road. It took him back to that day and appreciated the thought.

Another time there was a regret about something I did and I chance to repair or fix what happened. This can be more of a act of repentance and be very hard to do. I know that some things seem like they can't be corrected and somethings just can't but if it is in reach give it some consideration.

[histed]

Wayne, thanks for the author. I will be reading this soon.
Thunderstruck - Thank you for the thoughts. When we know that others have been there...and rl69, Char and the rest of you - I appreciate the help and the advice. Goatwhiskers, You're right. Can't hear the still, small voice if I'm making too much noise myself. Thanks to all of you.

[Wayne Smith]

Faith is a multifaceted thing - it is a gift of God - all my faith is from and through Him. It is something I need to practice, like a muscle I need to work to strengthen, it is something I need to use to trust, but God tells us to try Him and prove Him - so it is not an untested trust.

God's whole thrust throughout the Bible is for relationship - He wants a relationship with His people. We have been given the Holy Spirit to jump start and direct that relationship. It is a growing thing and requires our paying attention to the process to realize how He is working in our lives. If we do not realize this and recognize it, taking credit for what He does, we are disrespecting Him and not allowing ourselves to see God in our lives. When we recognize it we begin to see how active He is and all that He does, and faith becomes easier.

However, the more we allow God in our lives the more we experience the depth of the difference between Him and us - and thus the angst that many Christians feel as they grow. I need to accept my fundamental flaw to let go of my desire to be like Him - which is inherent in all of us. This is Paul's confession in Romans 7, which leads into Romans 8:1-3.

[Blackwater]

Scripture says that we walk by faith, not by sight. I've heard preachers and even read here that we need to "turn our lives over the Christ" - even said it myself. Got to admit that, though I've been a Christian for a long time, I haven't lived a consistent life and now, well, I'm just not sure what this really means. How do we walk by faith?

Answer: We walk by faith when we realize the uncertainties we face daily, but go forth with the faith that whatever befalls us, He will see us through it, and almost always, learn a worthy and valuable lesson in the doing of it. That's what it means to me, anyway.

Is this the "blank check" I've heard preachers refer to?

Answer: I don't believe it is. There is nothing we do that is inconsequential. Everything we do is linked together by our having done it, in whatever situation existed at the time for us to do it in. Everything has consequence, and as support for that contention, I'd point to Christ's saying even a butterfly doesn't fall without God's notice. That's my take on it, anyway.

If it is, how do you know if you've actually signed it?

Answer: When you KNOW, you just know. When you get weary, and let yourself doubt, even the tiniest bit, you become something less than sure. This is why firm belief is so crucial to living a Godly life. I know. I've done it both ways, and going with God is MUCH, MUCH better!

I try to live as I think God wants me to live... I'm just confused, I guess.

Answer: If you're confused, don't feel like you're the first, and you certainly won't be the last! We all have those times at some phase in our Christian growth. When we get to those points, we either firm up or faith, or we let it slide downhill. And I think all of us to a bit of both from time to time.

Becoming Christian doesn't make us an automatic angel. We don't "earn our wings" unless and until we've faced the Throne of Judgment, and been found acceptable. Until then, we all struggle between the Lord and our own will and humanity. I don't believe God ever expected any of us, not even one, to life a perfect life. Christ is the only entity to have EVER done that! But all of us can do better than in the past, and that may be the biggest "secret" of Christianity - that all we really can and need to do, and indeed, all we probably CAN do, is just keep trying to do a little better each day. After years and years of that, we CAN get pretty darned consistent, but none of us will EVER be "perfect," and we shouldn't expect ourselves to be. It just ain't in the cards, as long as we're stull humans on this side of the veil, and surrounded by evil at every turn. But even has NO power over us, if we just deny it our attention, and most particularly, our lust, etc.

Living a Godly life can never be achieved "perfectly," but all of us can do better each day. And one good way to start is realizing that NOBODY was ever born who was "predestined" to serve Satan. That's an elective choice we make. But in the end, we're all responsible for what we do with each day of our life, and God offers us forgiveness if only we'll ask for it, and repent from our evil ways. What greater gift could ever be bestowed on any of us?

[pmer]

James chapter two might be good place to look in regard to faith. James instructs about the short comings of appeasing some people at the expense of others, living by the golden rule of loving others as you love yourself and empty faith vs faith with deeds. Faith by itself (no deeds) or just professing God isn't really enough to attain Christ's mercy. But eventually in someone's "walk with Christ" they will become moved enough to begin to act in faith. The 4th B attitude "Blessed are those who show mercy for they will be given mercy" demonstrates acting in faith.

Without the mercy of Christ we are judged only by the Law. Mercy triumphs over the law.

[Char-Gar]

People don't have to look for faith or find faith for we are born with it. The infant in a parents arms does not think the parent will drop him/her. When we get out of bed in the morning we have faith the floor will bear out weight. We use faith hundreds of time each day, without recognizing it as such. When they say they have no faith, they are as wrong as wrong can be.

Having faith in God is not such a leap as we think. The problem is a child has that innate faith taken from them. As the git older they learn that people can lie to them. A bigger boy can hit and hurt them, and on and on. It is humans that diminish our faith.

So as it pertains to God, we have to recover that faith God gave us at birth. We have to learn that God does not lie to us, does not punish us and will never fail us. It is the nature of God to be loving and caring. That is easy for a child to believe, but much harder for a adult to believe.

Jesus had quite a bit to say about the child like quality of faith.

[Blackwater]

Excellent analogies, Char-Gar! Just because we don't THINK of the things we take for granted, doesn't mean they're not there. We just have to learn to re-appreciate them, and then, a lot of things begin to fall into place. I always love your explanations and examples. Thanks for all of them.

[lefty o]

Posting a post like that in a thread like this is the very definition of trolling. They're having a perfectly pleasant thread; why interject contention?

the question was about FAITH, the man merely stated his, absolutely no point in being rude to him!

[Traffer]

I have learned through many many trials and hard times that confusion and doubt is not a matter of attaining an answer for the problem. I have been in situations where I had to pray and pray and pray some more. You could say that I was trained to spend large amounts of time on my knees in prayer. There was a time in my life when life was so difficult and confusing and no one was on my side, that the only comfort I could find was in prayer. I believe that God brought me near to him that way. He cured my mental illness and taught me how to deal with the difficulties of life. To the point where I was able to help others out of the confusion of mental illness. So my advise would be to study the Bible, get a good understanding of the Word so that the Spirit of God can use it to minister to your heart, and Pray and pray. Wear God out with your petitions. Remember the widow who kept bothering the unjust judge until he gave in to her. And Jesus admonishing us to go to God with that approach.
I guarantee that God will not forsake persistent prayer.
The faith, comfort, spiritual healing, etc., all will follow.

[lefty o]

I stand by my post. What I said was factual, not rude.

Added: I apologize if my comment came across harshly. It's just frustrating to me that anymore nobody can have a friendly conversation without some anti interjecting negativity. For example, if I overheard some Muslims having a friendly conversation about some finer point of Islam, I would not butt in with a comment about my contrary religious views. That would just be rude and pointless.

Just the other day a coworker and I were talking about guns and a recent range visit, when someone else overheard and just had to make some comment about the evils of "assault weapons" and the NRA. If someone is having a friendly conversation about something you dislike, why not just leave them alone?

gee, he didnt step in and say anybody else was wrong in their belief, he just stated his! why do people have to throw tantrums when their views are not exactly like someone elses?

[UKShootist]

Very many years ago I was living in Malta. A quote, allegedly by the pope of the time, was doing the rounds to the effect that the pope would not visit Malta because there was too much religion and not enough faith. I do not this that such an opinion is confined to Malta.

[fatelk]

gee, he didnt step in and say anybody else was wrong in their belief, he just stated his! why do people have to throw tantrums when their views are not exactly like someone elses?

OK you win. You're right, I'm wrong. I know better than to ever post on stuff like this and I've deleted my posts. My apologies all around. The post I took exception to was made by a well known atheist who likes to poke at those who don't share his enlightened views, and I took the post as just another poke. Clearly you saw it for what it actually was, just a humble statement of his personal faith. Again, apologies all around and I'll take my leave now.

[Traffer]

I have faith there is no god.
Harry, would you mind if I watch at your last judgment? I think it would be amusing to see you debate God as to whether he exists or not. :kidding:

[fatelk]

Careful, Traffer; don't take the bait like I did. I was reading an interesting and sincere discussion and was annoyed by what I perceived as a clear attempt to derail it.

My response was out of line primarily because it actually did derail the thread whereas the rest of you were wisely just ignoring it. For that I sincerely apologize.

[Blackwater]

Traffer, that's exactly how the Lord keeps us from straying! He lets bad things happen to good people BECAUSE without the hard times, they'd drift into sin and evil. It's just how we work, and the world around us. He knows what it'll take to keep us in the fold, or at least is most likely to. And He loves us enough to let us suffer if it's needed to keep us straight. What Love He truly has for us!

[Traffer]

Traffer, that's exactly how the Lord keeps us from straying! He lets bad things happen to good people BECAUSE without the hard times, they'd drift into sin and evil. It's just how we work, and the world around us. He knows what it'll take to keep us in the fold, or at least is most likely to. And He loves us enough to let us suffer if it's needed to keep us straight. What Love He truly has for us!

Blackwater, thank you for that encouragement. I completely agree. Perhaps one thing that I failed to emphasize is that the process of being brought near to God is about his love for us. I believe that he allows us to fail, become confused, suffer all kinds of trials and difficulties so we seek him. God desires the intimacy of prayer with us. Because of his jealous love. It is a difficult thing to pray the kind of prayers that avail us that intimacy. It is there where we find the comfort, the peace, the refuge of God's abiding presence.
I do not think that there are many (even Christians) who have the disposition to strive for God's comfort when things get really bad like this. For me it took special circumstances where I had no one else to turn to. If I would have had friends to turn to I would have have turned to them for comfort and reassurance. But they abandoned me. Now looking back, I see that all this was for my benefit. God became my refuge. A place of indescribable peace and joy. It brought me to one of my now favorite passages of Scripture. "Being with you Lord, I desire nothing on Earth" (paraphrase of Psalm 73:25)
I wish for everyone to be able to have this kind of comfort from God. There is a lot more world in us than we realize. We hang on to the world tenaciously. I counseled a young man one time who confided that he watched TV way too much, wasting his life. I advised him to keep track of how many hours he spent watching TV in one week, divide that number in half and then spend that much time in prayer and study. He went away sad and others accused me of being too dramatic in my suggestion. (I would now agree with them but that is another long discussion in itself) I am citing that to demonstrate how hard it is for us to turn our focus to the Lord from the never ending enticements and challenges of this world.
With this said, I believe there are some who rightly understand the heart of Christ and make the connection to the heart of God through the experience of the love shown to us on the cross. But this is how the path developed for me. For me, having suffered the confusion of mental illness and then to come to a place where it just dissipated in the presence and comfort of God was life changing. My psychiatrist (an orthodox Jew) told me that if he could write a prescription for the cure to mental illness he would prescribe my lifestyle. One of the last times I visited him, (around 1991) he said this, "In my field there is not accepted that there is a cure for the kind of illness that you have had, but you and I both know that you are cured". I haven't needed any kind of medication or doctor care since then. It was the end of over 20 years of medication for mental illness.

[Char-Gar]

"Do not seek to understand so you can believe, but believe so you can understand."

Agustine of Hippo

[Ickisrulz]

Traffer, that's exactly how the Lord keeps us from straying! He lets bad things happen to good people BECAUSE without the hard times, they'd drift into sin and evil. It's just how we work, and the world around us. He knows what it'll take to keep us in the fold, or at least is most likely to. And He loves us enough to let us suffer if it's needed to keep us straight. What Love He truly has for us!

Some people turn to God in bad times and others turn away. Some people are steadfast when everything is going well while others stray. The mature Christian serves God in all situations.

[birch]

I don't know about that. I see a bunch of "mature" Christians following a leader who has never repented for anything in his life, who's only goal in life is to covet, values money above all else, cannot tell a truth from a lie, has repeatedly been shown to value women as nothing more than play things to be bought, has supported abortion for the greatest part of his life and mocks those less fortunate than himself.

I think the latest poll is that 80 percent of Christians look to this man in adoration and is considered a savior to our country.

I think walking in the footsteps of Christ involves trying to be the most righteous human being you can possibly be. I think it involves knowing when you do wrong and sincerely trying to put an end to that particular behavior. Every time I have done something against God, I knew I was doing wrong before I did it. I think walking with Christ involves being aware of our natural tendencies to sin and trying to halt the behavior before we either enjoy it's sinful nature or pretend as if it is not that big of a deal.

On the other hand, I have also done things that I did not know was evil until after I did that particular deed. In these instances, I try to learn from my mistakes. I don't think there is anything wrong with acknowledging our own individual self defeating behavior in the eyes of our creator.

[WRideout]

I don't know why people have such trouble with faith. Many people believe in bitcoin, which has no substance at all. It is entirely a deeply and fervently held belief among a group of people.

Wayne

[Char-Gar]

I don't know about that. I see a bunch of "mature" Christians following a leader who has never repented for anything in his life, who's only goal in life is to covet, values money above all else, cannot tell a truth from a lie, has repeatedly been shown to value women as nothing more than play things to be bought, has supported abortion for the greatest part of his life and mocks those less fortunate than himself.

I think the latest poll is that 80 percent of Christians look to this man in adoration and is considered a savior to our country.

I think walking in the footsteps of Christ involves trying to be the most righteous human being you can possibly be. I think it involves knowing when you do wrong and sincerely trying to put an end to that particular behavior. Every time I have done something against God, I knew I was doing wrong before I did it. I think walking with Christ involves being aware of our natural tendencies to sin and trying to halt the behavior before we either enjoy it's sinful nature or pretend as if it is not that big of a deal.

On the other hand, I have also done things that I did not know was evil until after I did that particular deed. In these instances, I try to learn from my mistakes. I don't think there is anything wrong with acknowledging our own individual self defeating behavior in the eyes of our creator.

The United States has a weird form of civil religion. Folks think that what is best (according to their views) for American society, must be God's plan. Many of the conservatives think this, as well as many of the Progressives.

The truth is, faith in Christ is above and beyond all human society. All societies and all people are subject to the same evaluation by the standards of Christ.

As far as the current occupant of the White House goes, while I agree with 80% of his policy, he himself is a slim ball. I hang out with allot of conservative Christians and they share the same view.

[jumbeaux]

Some excellent comments here. I have always believed that a wonderful example of faith is the thief on the cross. He came to Christ very late but is assured of everlasting life. God Bless...

rick

[Traffer]

Some people turn to God in bad times and others turn away. Some people are steadfast when everything is going well while others stray. The mature Christian serves God in all situations.

That sounds like something one of Job's friends would have said to him. You remember Job: "There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil."

[Ickisrulz]

That sounds like something one of Job's friends would have said to him. You remember Job: "There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job, and that man was blameless and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil."

I sound like one of Job's comforters? I sure hope you aren't saying that because my post is based of biblical teaching. 3 examples:

Mature Christian:

"I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all this through him who gives me strength." Philippians 4:12-13

Those who fall away in bad times:

"But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away." Matthew 13:21

Those who fall away in good times:

"You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked." Revelation 3:17

Look at Solomon. He was blessed with peace and prosperity during his reign, but he strayed

[Blackwater]

Gee whiz, Char Gar! You're kind'a tough on Trump, aren't you? I agree that he once WAS a slime ball. But some time back, he came to belief, and it surely looks a lot like he's trying to grow in faith and understanding. It's much harder for the rich to do that, I think, because they have so many concerns flying all about them daily. And now that Trump's our President, he's one of the most seriously and consequentially busy folks on planet earth. And I'm SO glad that God granted him the win in the recent election. Had Hillary gone in, we would ALL be in a whale of a mess right now!!! For many, many diverse reasons!!!!

Sometimes we Christians are a lil' too hard on our weaker/newer brethren who have a ways to go to mature in faith. We really ought'a be more circumspect about that. At least that's what I think, anyhow. Christ has been so merciful to me, I just figure I owe it to my fellow believers, whatever their stage of maturity in Christ. Sure keeps me humble! And I fail sometimes. But I keep correcting myself. One day, maybe I'll be able to do better?

[Thundarstick]

Blackwater, don't you know that "the Lords army" is the only army in existence that shoots its wounded?

[Char-Gar]

Gee whiz, Char Gar! You're kind'a tough on Trump, aren't you? I agree that he once WAS a slime ball. But some time back, he came to belief, and it surely looks a lot like he's trying to grow in faith and understanding. It's much harder for the rich to do that, I think, because they have so many concerns flying all about them daily. And now that Trump's our President, he's one of the most seriously and consequentially busy folks on planet earth. And I'm SO glad that God granted him the win in the recent election. Had Hillary gone in, we would ALL be in a whale of a mess right now!!! For many, many diverse reasons!!!!


There is only claims and anecdotes about Trump's faith and any growth therein.

I have seen to many charlatans get rich as fake Christians, to take anybody's word for it. Perhaps he is and perhaps he is not. In the meanwhile, I am going to listen to Jesus's words in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 7:16) "You will know them by their fruits."

As previously state, I support the majority of Trump's political agenda, but I don't have to make excuses for the man, in order to do that. I have spent many years as a "professional" Christian to take at face value the claims that people make or others make for them. I have seen to much falseness.

[GhostHawk]

I will only say I believe the Lord is talking to him. Sometimes he listens and sometimes I am not so sure he does. But I think he is working in the right direction. Just like all the rest of us. One day at a time.

God Bless you President Trump. I'd not want that job.

[Blackwater]

Understood, Char-Gar. And respected. My only point, really, is that flawed people are God's ONLY tools in this world. We're all flawed, for we've "all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Some of us, naturally, have sinned more and more seriously than some others, but sin is sin in God's eyes, and the "worst" sinner is now lower than, but equal to, those who sin less, but still sin. And all of Heaven rejoices when a new convert becomes part of the fold. We seem to be a bit more critical, typically, than the hosts of Heaven. Experience kind'a tends to help make us that way, but really, aren't we supposed to gladly receive the newer converts into the fold? Many churches and Christians seem to have a hard time doing that, and seem addicted to condemning as many people as possible, rather than showing the mercy and grace and love that Christ tried to teach us. Vindictive judgmentalism is everywhere these days, it seems, and that is NOT something Christ tried to teach us. It's something He warned us about.

So all I really meant was, that we really need to be VERY grateful that he's our president, now. I shudder to think about what we so very narrowly missed!!!!

[Char-Gar]

Blackwater...Christians are never to be "judgmental" for sure. Judgment is a judicial act and therefore is God's and God's alone. He alone is the Judge and will Judge the world.

That said, as we go through life, we come up against all people who claim to be this, that or another and add Jesus or Christian to their resume. Just adding that bullet point in your resume, will make many, many Christians to back away from any negative thinking or comment about this. This is a bad mistake and a misunderstanding of how God would have us live life.

While we don't "judge" them, we are required to make some kind of assessment of their character, motives and actions. We see how they effect others and whether they cause people to be rise or fall. Jesus told us to be harmless as doves and wise as serpents. Christians have the dove part down real well, but not so much the wise as serpents part.

When Jewish Christians from Jerusalem dogged behind Paul on his church establish trips. They told the churches that Paul did not have it right. Believe in Jesus was one part of it, but the other part was the necessity to be circumcised and follow the Jewish law. Paul had no problem calling these people "mutilators of the flesh" and pronouncing anathema on them. Was this vindictive judgmental ism or is it just calling a spade a spade?

Like others, I am glad Trump won and Hillary did not. However, I am not ready to accept his "Believer in Jesus" resume bullet point, until I see some real personal piety and growth in grace, in his personal life. His political agenda, for the most part, is OK with me, but that does not indicate God's blessing on him. He has lived his life as a narcissistic pursuer of wealth, ego enhancement and women. When that changes, I will revisit his "Christian" bullet point. Until then I will believe that he was smart enough to know that the Christian vote was vital to his election. In this world, there are foxhole Christians, rice bowl Christians and Election Day Christians.

"Not everyone who calls upon me Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who do the will of my Father will enter."...Mathews 7:20 and following.

[Cheeto303]

Read Hebrews Chapter 11.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

[UKShootist]

Understood, Char-Gar. And respected. My only point, really, is that flawed people are God's ONLY tools in this world. We're all flawed, for we've "all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." Some of us, naturally, have sinned more and more seriously than some others, but sin is sin in God's eyes, and the "worst" sinner is now lower than, but equal to, those who sin less, but still sin. And all of Heaven rejoices when a new convert becomes part of the fold. We seem to be a bit more critical, typically, than the hosts of Heaven. Experience kind'a tends to help make us that way, but really, aren't we supposed to gladly receive the newer converts into the fold? Many churches and Christians seem to have a hard time doing that, and seem addicted to condemning as many people as possible, rather than showing the mercy and grace and love that Christ tried to teach us. Vindictive judgmentalism is everywhere these days, it seems, and that is NOT something Christ tried to teach us. It's something He warned us about.

So all I really meant was, that we really need to be VERY grateful that he's our president, now. I shudder to think about what we so very narrowly missed!!!!

Your post reminds me that I think you are one of the very few Christians I have encountered who might just, possibly, maybe, get me re-examining my views on faith and religion in a more positive light (but don't hold your breath). This is because, as I see it, you are also one of the very few who's religion isn't blasted out with emotions that very many people would see as hatred of non believers and an 'or else' message. Vindictive judgmentalism indeed, reinforced by self righteous self satisfaction. A joy in being able to say "I'm saved, your not, burn in hell." So many fundamental Christians seem to be possessed of an almost savage joy in their condemnation of unbelievers. I never thought that the hatred I see in so many of that ilk was a naturally Christian characteristic.

I sincerely wish you well. Something I think I am able to say to you without you thinking that my good wishes might contaminate your spirituality somehow, unlike some others.

[Thundarstick]

“Oh, I don’t reject Christ. I love Christ. It’s just that so many of you Christians are so unlike Christ. If Christians would really live according to the teachings of Christ, as found in the Bible, all of India would be Christian today.“ Ganghi

I think this hits the nail on the head and drives it home! I've pondered this quote many times.