9mm recipie won´t make MINOR

[Papucho]

Using Lee 356-124-2R, Win SP, 4.0 gr. W 231, Mixed brass1.10" OAL, but I cant get them over 960 fps average, thus I cant make it in to MINOR. Any suggestions? Thanks.
__________________

[686]

Go To A 147 Gr Bullet

[Calamity Jake]

Making major in 9 can be a problem, the 147gr will help but you will still have to up the vol.
You might want to use military brass and have fully supported case in the chamber.

[imashooter2]

Have you weighed them lubed? Actual bullet weight might be higher or lower than the advertised weight and change the velocity you need.

From the data I've seen you still have room to move up the charge weight with W231. If that still won't do it, try Alliant Power Pistol. It's supposed to be the schiznit for 9mm and should allow velocity to easily make minor.

[Papucho]

Go To A 147 Gr Bullet

Does 3.9 gr. of W231 and 1.160" sound all right to you?

[Triggerhappy]

Only guys I know that shoot 9 Major are using VV powders only. There's a fine line with the Major in 9mm.

[jameslovesjammie]

Guys,

He's trying to make minor, not major.

According to the Lee Second Edition load manual, with their 124 gr. you can go up to a MAX of 4.0 grains of W231. Velocity was 1035 fps and oal was 1.095. Since you're coming up a little short, if you're not getting any signs of pressure you could go up another tenth of a grain and see what happens. If your gun shows ANY signs of pressure, switch powders and DO NOT USE THIS LOAD.

If you want to go to the 147, Lee says 3.3-3.5 grains of W231 for a velocity of 865-905 at a length of 1.135.

[Papucho]

Thank you James

[686]

The 147 Gr At 851 Fps Will Give You Minor.

[dwtim]

I would try a medium burn rate powder, like AA #5, AA #7, Unique, or Blue Dot.

[HeavyMetal]

What's yer barrel length?

This can make a huge difference in velocity readings!

[Treeman]

My stubby little Bersa Mini-Firestorm spits that Lee boolit seated to 1.160 OAL out 100fps faster than your loads using 4 grains of Hercules Red Dot (which isn't a hot loading at all). With a longer OAL you definitely have room to move up in charge weight.( I have 2 sources that say 5.0 of 231 is max)

[Blammer]

if you can, up the powder charge with ww231, I'd try that first.

[jonk]

WT heck is 9mm major/minor???

[leadeye]

I'm with Jonk on this one.

Please enlighten the ignorant amoung us, what is the 9mm major/minor difference?

[686]

Wsf Powder Is Grate In The 9mm

[felix]

Minor or Major refers to momentum/energy of the projectile. The numbers are specific to games that require target reaction, like sillywet, bowlingpins, etc. ... felix

[mike in co]

velocity x bullet weight / 1000 = power factor. 124 x 960 / 1000 = 119. ( 124 x 1010 = 125.2)

some shooting groups ( ipsc for one) have min power factor reqirements and use to have major/minor scoring. shooting major got more points than shooting minor. knock down targets are required to go down with a minor hit.
things change....major was 175 when i started competition, think it had been 185 at one time, minor min is 125. major dropped to 160 to support factory only ammo as required in some countries, and then major / minor dropped all together.

there are lots of guns shot in competition that shoot 115 around 1100 fps....just enough. fun for competition but not much of a defense load. fun to shoot....


mike in co

[jameslovesjammie]

Some gun games have a different scoring system determined by the cartidge you are shooting. You get a certain number of points based off of how close you are to the center of the target and at what speed you run through the course of fire.

Think of Major and Minor as subcategories of different divisions. Major class and Minor class are different scoring systems used to calculate how many points each shooting zone on the target are scored at by the recoil of the cartridge.

The theory is that you should get more points if you can shoot a .45 ACP with a 230 grain bullet at 750 fps with the same speed and accuracy that someone else can shoot a 9mm shooting a 125 grain bullet 1,000 fps, since the 45 has more recoil/is more difficult manage to shoot multiple targets quickly.

How do you know if you shoot Major or Minor? It's simple. You take your bullet's (or boolit's) weight in grains and multiply it by its velocity. Then you divide that number by 1,000. This is called your power factor. Different divisions of different games have different requirements for Major/Minor powerfactor. For example, in the Standard Category for IPSC, 170 is power for Major and 125 is the power factor for Minor. The .45 example above comes out to a power factor of 172 and would qualify for Major, and the 9mm example above would qualify for Minor.

At the match, a Match Director can test anyone's ammunition at any time to make sure it is meeting power factor. This is tested by shooting your gun and ammo over a chronograph and doing the math. What happens if your ammunition doesn't make the required velocity at a match? Well, if you're supposed to be shooting Major (because it is more lenient in scoring) and your power factor comes up short, they move you into Minor and the match is scored under those rules. What happens if you're supposed to be shooting Minor and don't make velocity? You're DQ'd from the match.

That is why practicing over a Chrony and knowing what your gun is ACTUALLY doing at a velocity standpoing and what your bullet (or boolit) ACTUALLY weigh can be incredibly important. Most people try and set up their reloads to shoot as close to the Major or Minor PF as they can. There is no reason to shoot a hotter reload than you need to. It only makes it more difficult to hit multiple targets in a short amount of time.

[jameslovesjammie]

You beat me Mike!

[Papucho]

Thank you all. And yes, I´m using it for IPSC.

[mike in co]

when did /whose major is 170 ?
when i actively shot ipsc it was 175 and then as i stated it went down to 160. when did it go back to 170 ?

for those that wonder about all this its a time accuracy number of shots kinda game. yep a 45 is easy to make major with, but was mostly 7/8 round guns, shoot a high capacity 9 mm based gun and easily double your round count. now throw in major/minor and the std 9 looses some advantage. along comes the super nines.....things like 9x21 with no official max pressure listed in SAAMI. for years i shot 135's making major from a cz85.( do not try this in a light alloy gun)......1300 fps with a nine is a handful, but controlable...add a 20 round mag with plus one in the chamber...pretty tuff to beat. quite a while back after a couple of blowups and "safety" complaints from low capacity shooters, all "9mm" based guns were made "not allowed" in major (tho 38 super is still allowed). i continue to shoot my 9x21 in local club matches. enter the 40 easy to make major, medium round count.....a nice compromise to the major issue.

enter the girly game of "idpa". artifically limited to 10 rounds"because of the law" even tho plenty of high capacity guns were around...the "law" did not slow down ipsc ......created to boost sales of single stack 45 acp,.( don't believe me...go look at the four guys that started it)....worked for a while but now is the home of glocks...which now has thier own series.

pick a "sport" and use it to build confidence in your gun handling

[jameslovesjammie]

Depends on the division now

Open- Major 160 Minor 125
Standard- Major 170 Minor 125
Modified- Major 170 Minor 125
Production- No Major Minor 125
Revolver- Major 170 Minor 125

http://www.ipsc.org/pdf/RulesHandgun.pdf

Pages 48-52