Thompson/Center Renegade Hunting Load Help

[JesterGrin_1]

I have an old Renegade with the 1 in 48 twist and wish to hunt Deer and Hog with the rifle. It is a .50.

I would like to stick with the simple round ball but if this is a bad idea just let me know?

So to that end what is a good load for this smoke pole lol?

I have the Hornady .490 round balls and patches that fit well. And either 2F or Pyrodex to use since it seems Black is getting a bit harder to get.

But in a pinch lol. I also have a few Thompson/Center Maxi-Hunter BOOLITS in 275Gr.

Thank You all for any help I can get. :)

[frontier gander]

.490ball with 80-100gr pyrodex RS or real black powder and a .015 patch.

Hunting load with more knock down,
A 295gr powerbelt with 80gr RS was one hell of a shooting load in a renegade i had

[725]

Just shoot it as much as you can. frontier gander has a good load suggestion. Round ball isn't the greatest killer, but it sure works with good shot placement. I never had good luck finding an accurate load with the maxi-hunter. Might just be me, I'm sure others have. Had the best luck with hunting and accuracy with the maxi-ball. Oh, my!!! What knock down power. Power belts are great, but expensive. They are probably the very best bullet you can get for that set up. Being cheap and poor, I like the maxi-hunter. Given the choice, I would choose maxi-balls over anything else I've shot. An after-thought: I have had better luck with .495 balls and .010 lubed patch than .490's and .015's. Your results may vary.

[Boz330]

I had a 54 Renegade and never did get it to shoot RBs very well. The Maxi Ball shot really good but hurt like hell. Try the ball and see if it shoots though. A Lee REAL might be an option as well. I tried Pyro in my Renegade and never got a group that I was comfortable with. Good luck.

Bob

[jhrosier]

The 48" twist in the .54 is just too fast to shoot a RB with any velocity.
The 300 gr REAL might be long enough for the fast twist, and still light enough not to hurt (much.).
A call to LEE tech support might be in order.

Jack

[Maven]

JG 1, Although I no longer own a rifle with a 1:48 twist, I will say that my .45cal T/C Hawken (28" bbl.) was equally accurate with RB's, Lee REALs, Lyman Maxi-Balls and T/C Maxi-Balls (lighter than the Lyman, both in .45cal. & .50cal. versions). As for a RB load, check T/C's website as I believe they have their care/feeding/loading manuals there. Your bbl. may have different preferences than mine did, but, as suggested, I'd try the .014" patch + .490" RB first and a .018" patch if that doesn't work out. Also, I've tried .50cal. Maxi's in a 1:28 twist and was extremely happy with the results. I suspect you'll get similar results with the T/C Maxi-Hunter bullet in your Renegade as well (just bought a package but haven't tested them yet). Btw, in the faster twist, the .50cal. REAL's, both 250gr. & 320gr., haven't been stellar performers, especially the lighter one.

[testhop]

dido on what frontier said
i use a t.c 50 and 90 gr real blackpowder witha 15 thousands patch for hunting
for practice i shoot same but with 70 gr powder
for a 50 use 3f ff
i sight in at 50 yards dont bealive those 200 yards shots i think thay were made on a typewriter with the 1in 48 twist you can use both r.b or the maxie ball or maxie hunter
try bboth and see what the renegade likes
for cleaning and it MUST BE CLEABED AFTER YOU FINISH SHOOTING OR RUST
the thing i use is SIMPLE GREEN A HOUSEHOLD CLEANING PRODUCTAND HVERY HOT WATER

[mooman76]

80 - 100g might be a bit much for for a 1-48 twist. If you want RB it would be better to go with like a 1-66 twist, but a 1-48 is a good twist rate in 50 caliber. By this I mean you should be able to shoot both RBs and conicals well with it. Only shooting will tell you for sure. Start out at 50g and go up in 5g increments until accuracy falls off where you can't live with it for hunting or until you have reached max safe charge. You don't have to be super accurate for hunting, just good enough for an efficiant kill which IMO should be not much more that 100y, maybe a little farther with a conical. The 50 with a RB will certainly get the job done with a heavey load. Also I might add you don't have to shoot with a real tight patch but it will help when you are pushing a heavy hunting load.

[JesterGrin_1]

Thank You everyone for all of the info.

I used to shoot this rifle a bunch 25 years ago lol. But my load was with the .490 RB and .15 patch and only 50 Volume of Black Powder. This was for target and a close field load also for targets set up.

But since I now plan to take real game with the rifle I just had to ask. :)

So it seems the thought here is that a RB will do the job out to 100 to say 125 yards? And I agree the Maxi can HURT lol.


The Down side is that down here in South TEXAS the Black Powder season is after everything else. So the Deer are just a tad NERVOUS lol. It used to be Bow and Black Powder before the start of the normal season but they changed that. Is that not nice lol.

[frontier gander]

1:48 twist can be an excellent twist for patched round balls. My 80-100gr charge is based off my own experience with a tc renegade i owned some years back.

My brothers current cva hawken is shooting 90gr pyrodex rs with a patched ball. Excellent accuracy!

[northmn]

Original Hawkens and many other ML's were rifled at 1-48 to 1-60. Also accuracy is relative to what you hunt. I chronographed some 50 cal loads and found that about 80 grains of 3f was as good as anything. Unless Texas deer have grown since I have last heard about them a round ball will harvest them with no problem and should shoot a little flatter. What is a large deer in your area 150-170 lbs? I am not saying this to make fun, just commenting on a fact as I have heard it.

Northmn

[JesterGrin_1]

Original Hawkens and many other ML's were rifled at 1-48 to 1-60. Also accuracy is relative to what you hunt. I chronographed some 50 cal loads and found that about 80 grains of 3f was as good as anything. Unless Texas deer have grown since I have last heard about them a round ball will harvest them with no problem and should shoot a little flatter. What is a large deer in your area 150-170 lbs? I am not saying this to make fun, just commenting on a fact as I have heard it.

Northmn

You are correct a nice Deer dressed out is about 160 or so pounds. But also wish to use it for Hog as well. But I think if I keep to about 125 yards or less I should be okay?

[frontier gander]

I'd try keeping the shots within 100yards, Shorter the better.

Round balls lacks ft lbs of energy badly. Only round ball shot i ever had was straight to the head.

[flintlocknfur]

2+ on starting with 50 gr, 2 or 3f. Id bet that with more than 70 grains your just making more smoke with that short barrel. Meaning, its burning after its past the muzzle. I hunt with 70gr 2f and a 38inch barrel, its plenty.

[Blammer]

i have a TC renegade in 50 cal, with the 1/48 twist.

My favorite load is 80gr FFG with 333gr TC maxi hunter, OR 80gr FFG with ball and patch.

I think I chronoed the RB load once and got around 1600 fps. (can't remember precisly)

I could shoot my RB or Maxi Hunter bullet up to 90gr FFG before the kick got to be too much for me. Those thin stocks with the metal but plate and a single shirt were pretty brutal. :)

[Blkpwdrbuff]

Jester, I own snd shoot a T/C Hawken 50. I shoot round balls and .018 patches with 50-90 gr of FFFg.
When hunting I shoot Maxi-balls with 90gr of FFFg.
I can shoot cloverleaf groups at 100 yds and it's hell on wheels on mule deer.
The one I shot last year looked like I shot it with an '06 when I skinned him out.
The Maxi-balls are just plain better killers.
If it was me I'd use 'em.
The one thing with roundballs is they lose knockdown really fast.
Just my .02 worth.
Blkpwdrbuff:castmine:

[rmb721]

In my opinion, round balls are the finest deer cripplers available. Now that we don't have to use them anymore in PA, I use a T/C sabot with a Speer 240 JHP with 100 grains of FFFG in a Renegade and Hawken, both are flintlocks and 1 in 48 twist..

[GabbyM]

I can tell you the 45 caliber .440" round balls over 110gr of fffg will let you down on deer. Figured this out back before TC came out with the 220gr maxi for the 45.
I think the problem was the 2000+fps velocity with a 127gr pure lead ball. As a teenager I'd of been hard to convince that less powder was better. You gain 50 grains of weight moving up to 50 caliber.

Short of it is I shot three deer in one day and failed to recover a one of them. That was close to forty years ago and I'm still bummed over it.

Like most of us I've known men with 50 cal shooting TC maxi balls. Year after year they bowl over their deer. For hogs you want the big slugs for sure.

[northmn]

You really cannot improve on dead. I have also known those that use round ball and do the same thing. One individual had shot 28 deer with a round ball in a 50 and preferred them to the Maxi Ball. I shot a deer once with a 36 Cap and Ball. He was very close, about 10 feet, and had a little trouble tracking him, but he really didn't go any further than a deer normally shot in that manner. Most of us have been too brain washed on the modern energy theories and just don't feel right using something of a lesser load. I used to remember when the 44 Mag was the king of the hill in pistols. Someone that thought you needed a 300 mag for deer would claim the 44 as death and destruction on elk.

Northmn

[GabbyM]

All true northmn:
I do think my problem was to much powder under that soft 440" ball. Causing it to fragment to leave a surface wound. It's just a guess on my part. The 50 caliber ball would be a big step up in mass. Don't know how fast they go but you can push them to fast. But then if your target is down range some the ball slows down for you.
With conical bullets in the 45 you can far out do the tried and true 44/40 cartridge. It basically shoots with a 44 mag carbine.

[northmn]

Personally I wonder if RB's don't get puched a little too fast also. I shot a deer in the neck up close with a 50, loaded with 90 grs. 3f. The deer bounced when it went down but I never saw an exit hole. Never found the ball either. RB's do decelerate very rapidly. There used to be a theory that the gains over 1800 fps muzzle velocity were really not worth it down range. The English used to used moderate powder charges behind large bores which worked well for them. An individual I built a rifle for killed an 8 point buck with his 62 RB and 70 grains of powder. He was close but the deer didn't go that far either. A .600 ball still blows a pretty big hole.

Northmn

[Rattus58]

So too does a 58 roundball.... :) Mine run between 1450 and 1600 max.

Aloha :cool:

[Digital Dan]

Jester, I had one of those once that shot quite well with the maxi-ball and 90 grs. of 2Fg or 50 grs under the same RB you speak of. I never went to higher charge with the RB but would think it might take a bit more before the groups open much. Shot extremely well with the RB FWIW.

The shoulder abuse with that piece was resolved with a pad. LOP was too short for me and it smarted with the Maxi balls. After the pad was added, no problem at all. The gun is, in my opinion, a hunting piece, not art. I treated it so. I also think that 100 yards is pushing the envelope a bit with round balls....

[JesterGrin_1]

Thank You Dan. The thoughts on this rifle I must say are all over the place lol. But I kinda knew this going in lol. Everyone has there own way of thinking when it comes to Black Powder.

So I guess I am going to put the gun up for this year and stick with my other arms. As the shortest range I can get is between 100 and 125 yards and goes up from there lol. And with the South TEXAS cactus and thorns on everything that will either bite you or stick you I do not really wish to track a Deer down in it lol. Not to mention all of those nice little 6 foot or so rattle snakes lol.

[Tom W.]

Just an aside, I've found that the fabric from the front pockets of worn out blue jeans makes the best patch material that I've ever found. An old worn out pair doesn't hit the trash with it's pockets intact at my house!

I've also found that the Maxiballs have a bit more authority than the round balls. I usually save the RB for small game, altho I have a stout enough charge to take a deer.

[northmn]

As to tracking deer, after 40 years of shooting them I can tell you that you will be tracking them whether you hit them with a Maxi-Ball, RB, 270 or 45-70. To avoid tracking you have to break bones or take out the Central Nervous System. I helped my son's friend find an 8-point buck hit by a 300 WM. He started tracking, I knew the area and found the buck almost where one went I shot with a 270 in the worst section of blowdowns in the area. Sometimes a deer hit in the ribs will drop on the spot, more often they run a ways. I have shot too many deer to get excited about super powerful loads or guns, they spend a lot of the extra energy on landscape and not in the game.

Northmn

[daniel lawecki]

Blammer Im new to muzzleloading TC Renegade TC Maxi Hunter 355gr. It looks like 80grs of Hodgon Select Rs FFG would work in my TC? Last time I shot muzzy was in the 80s. Advice would help been watching videos.

[Blammer]

Yep 80gr of FFg equivelent will be just fine. Ie the Hodgdon select RS should be fine. Use a mag pimer on the black powder substitutes, as they tend to take more heat to light off.

[MosinRob]

I have a Renagade in .54. I shoot 60gr goex ff with a .018 PRB. It cuts playing cards in half. hope this helps