Hydraulic ram

[Jumptrap]

All right, time to ask you mechanic types about something that has been on the backburner too long.

I want to convert a loading press to all hydraulic operation. Forget the compund linkages and all that......I want to affix a cylinder directly inline with the press ram....now the frame work to hold all this is nothing to construct.....but, figuring out what kind of pump and cylinder and control levers is out of my realm.....completely. I know NOTHING about hydraulics....flow rates, cylinder diameters, GPM's....zero, zip, nothing. Of course, I want to run the pump with a 115 vac electric motor and would prefer a foot control to a lever. I just want to make the ram go up and down...powered both ways and produce enough force to swage bullets if wanted. Ebay is full of this equipment but it's all the same to me.

So, some of you need to suggest what is required/needed and how to set it up. This is going to be my winter project.

[Hairtrigger]

I rely on feel when reloading. When you go hydraulic feel is nolonger available.
I have considered converting my shotshell press to hydraulic but am holding off because I think I will tear up equipment.
In my shop I have a couple of 24V hydraulic motors/pumps that I had intended on using but thought better of it

[PatMarlin]

Most likely would be to slow wouldn't it?

I knew a guy that used air in the ram, and that worked like gangbusters and was fast.. :Fire: :bigsmyl2:

[Hairtrigger]

With the proper size pump I believe the speed would be the same or even faster. the face that the speed would be consistant would be a plus.
I would HATE to get my finger caught, That is why I avoid 9mm LOL
A foot activated valve would be a nice feature

[Swagerman]

An internet friend of mine invented this motor powered press that has adjustable speed.

He mainly uses it to size brass as he has a bad shoulder.

I have one of these reduction geared motors if anyone is interested.

Swagerman

[Jumptrap]

Swagerman,

Now if that isn't the damnedest looking rig I ever saw! I'd say for doing pistol ammo it's the trick.

I want something that I can swage with as well as resize brass. My back just can't take standing in front of a press for extended periods...2 bad discs. Now, the handle of the press...mines a Lyman Orange Crusher, swings way out, so sitting in front of it is a PITA. I thought how nice it would be to sit up close and feed the thing, while retaining the power of the compound linkage. I want to bypass the lingage all together and just rely on hydraulic power to do the work.

As I said earlier, due to my ignorance of hydraulics, I don't know what I need to get to make this work.....what kind of pump/cylinder/control. I want to be able to size or swage with no problems and of course have a cycle time that rivals hand operation. The ram speed would have to be variable I'd think...so you could run the bullet or case up to the die slowly and then be able to 'give it the gas' when you wanted to increase the force/whatever.

This ought to be simple to figure out.

[Swagerman]

Yes indeed, I can appreciate a person with a bad back having to pump a press handle hundreds of times gets old real fast.

Though I'm into bullet swaging big time, got 3 presses lined up to do that work, but they're all pull handle stuff...though it would be nice to have a motorized rig.

Don't think I'd mess with the hydraulics, what would you power it with...air or water? Or steam...Lol :D

Seems like electric motor would be the easiest and cleanest way to tackle it but I'm certainly no expert in that field.

Until my back goes totally out of whack, probably won't be long now, I stick to pulling the press handles.

Good luck with your project and hope someone comes along and helps you out with the hydraulics. It would be interesting though to see something like that.

Swagerman

[Jumptrap]

Yes indeed, I can appreciate a person with a bad back having to pump a press handle hundreds of times gets old real fast.

Though I'm into bullet swaging big time, got 3 presses lined up to do that work, but they're all pull handle stuff...though it would be nice to have a motorized rig.

Don't think I'd mess with the hydraulics, what would you power it with...air or water? Or steam...Lol :D

Seems like electric motor would be the easiest and cleanest way to tackle it but I'm certainly no expert in that field.

Until my back goes totally out of whack, probably won't be long now, I stick to pulling the press handles.

Good luck with your project and hope someone comes along and helps you out with the hydraulics. It would be interesting though to see something like that.

Swagerman


Hydraulics...oil.
Fluids are mostly non compressable....you sure as hell cannot compress water!
That is the problem with air...it is compressable...don't want that and besides that, it is noisy...making it and using it.

A small hydraulic pump ran by an electric motor and a cylinder with control valves is all that is needed........I just need tutoring on what to buy so I get it right the first time around.

[Herb in Pa]

I would surmise that you would need the same control setup as a logsplitter uses.

[grumble]

Jump, to design a system, you'll need some starting points. Such as, are you using some parts you have on hand? If so, it isn't hard to match the other parts to what you already have. If you're starting from scratch, you'll need some basic measurements, such as the distance of travel of the ram and how much pressure you want it to exert. From that you can size the ram, and from the ram, what size pump you'll need.

[shooter575]

Jump,I would start doing internet searches.Some of the home machining boards have a lot of clever mechanics there.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ubbs/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=General&number=1&DaysPrune=45&LastLogin= is one site. Buckshot travels in those circles. Hydrulic stuff can be pricey new. There are some surplus sites that may have some stuff you need. Northern hydrulics has a web site.
A auto body porta-power may be a good start.I have seen em with little pump and a foot rocker forward/reverse switch.
Some slide outs on camping trailers have a 12 volt starter coupled to a small pump.Some pickup dump boxes use the same thing.
Get a cool drink and start googling. Good luck.

[Swagerman]

This is a picture of my 3/4 HP motor up close showing the reduction gear box.

The drive shaft show a chuck in it, this does not come with the motor but the pully wheel does.


Swagerman

[Jumptrap]

This is a picture of my 3/4 HP motor up close showing the reduction gear box.

The drive shaft show a chuck in it, this does not come with the motor but the pully wheel does.


Swagerman

Do you think that geared motor makes enough force to swage a bullet? The only swaging dies I have are for .224 using spent 22 hulls for jackets....old ted Smith dies and then, i have a Swag-O-Matic I'd like to play with.

I still think a hydraulic cylinder is the way to go.

[castalott]

jumptrap...

There are 2 mec reloaders that run by a hydraulic ram for sale on ebay...You might be able to buy the entire setup you need....

ooops...found another one..

http://cgi.ebay.com/201-MEC-Hydraulic-9000H12-SERIES-reloader-NO-RESERVE

I can't get the links to transfer correctly...You'll have to do a search...but there are 2 different setups for sale...This last one is run by a foot pedal...

Dale

[Swagerman]

[QUOTE=Jumptrap]Do you think that geared motor makes enough force to swage a bullet? The only swaging dies I have are for .224 using spent 22 hulls for jackets....old ted Smith dies and then, i have a Swag-O-Matic I'd like to play with.

================================================== =====
Jumptrap:

This motor has so much power and torque you can't stop the shaft from turning with a welders leather gloved hand. It has force and plenty of it. I doubt you could stop the shaft from turning with big pliars...not that I would try that stunt.

Rigging up a rheostat might be a good way to go on setting the function speed of the motor cycling. The press is an up and down operation on its ram piston.

These kind of projects are usually outside of my abilities. Getting long in the tooth.

Swagerman

[Buckshot]

..............Jump, the 2 main basics are llike what Grumble mentioned: 1) What is the stroke you want, and 2) How much pressure do you want. Now remember that the pressure you exert upwards pushing on the ram is also going to be exerted backwards too. Sitting on a wooden floor and the ram may just send it'self right on through :D

You should have a limit switch unless you can get a ram with exactly the right stroke or you may find the press ripped off the bench or the bench neatly elevated above the floor.

I'm not you but I will mention that for me I would not really feel secure with a quick acting hydraulic setup that was foot actuated. Rather in that case I would lever throttle operate it via the same hand I used to remove and replace the (whatever) it is your sizing/swageing/mashing.

You can go to the RCE engineering website (Richard Corbin, Dave's brother). He sells a hydraulic swaging outfit and it shows some nice photo's of the setup and also some particulars that you can possibly use for designing yours.

For swaging 22 cal jacketed slugs the pressure effort requirements are fully within the prameters of your average compond linkage reloading press. No big deal. With hydraulics to act directly on the ram be aware that heavy duty swaging may have a bad effect on the shellholder slot as most rams are not hardened.

...............Buckshot

[9.3X62AL]

Jumptrap--

Ponsness-Warren has hydraulic equipment for its shotshell loaders. You might give it a look-see.

www.reloaders.com

[Johnch]

I saw a Rock chucker with a MEC 9000H press Hydraulic ram parts added to it .
Don't know how well it worked .
The guy has 1 arm .
It works with a foot petal ( I had a 9000H )

Johnch

[Catshooter]

In the interest of the truth, I too in high school was taught that water was not a compressible fluid. And so it is, if you're talking about lowering yourself into the bathtub.

About 20 miles North of me is an outfit called Flow, Inc. They achieve a 12% compression of pure clean water. Takes either a 3/71 Gimmy diesel or a 150 hp electric motor to do it, but at 60,000 psi they get it.

Let me tell you that Gimmy really grunts, too.


Cat

[PA Bullets]

Did someone say ? "Swage" :-)

http://www.marlinowners.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Multi%20swage%20on%20bench.jpg

http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/normal_John%20s%20right%20size%20multi%20swage%20p ress.jpg


http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/Hydra%20Swage%20on%20the%20floor.jpg


http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/Hyra%20Swage%20top%20shot.jpg

http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/Hydra%20Swage%20Press%20side%20shot%20%20new.jpg

http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/Hydra%20Swage%20more%20shots%20of%20it.jpg


http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/100-0020_IMG_4.JPG

[Jumptrap]

Been awhile since I last visited this posting...man what fancy and EXPENSIVE swaging equipment pictures.

Okay.....so it is also shown that somebody has compressed water by 12%.....next thing it will be that pigs actually do fly!

I was tinkering with my new toy yesterday.....(my JD tractor) and had a remote cylinder hooked up that goes to my disk harrow. If I could remote the control valves to my bench.......I already the hydraulic delivery system...hehe. This cylinder is a big bastard...the rod/piston about 1 1/4" and the cylinder or tube maybe 4" in diameter. It extends about 12". I don't have the GPM specs for the hyd. pump or any of that technical BS in front of me.......but I think it's enough:). I can only assume that when the cylinder hits the end of the stroke, the bypass/relief valve opens on the pump side..is this correct thinking?

Hmm.....this may be an outside operation and a warm weather project..but I'm working on it.

[carpetman]

Jump--why dont you get a back hoe attachment for your JD and convert it for reloading? The expense would be reduced in that you wouldn't have to buy a stool as you would be using the tractor seat you already have. You could melt your wheel weights in the bucket,but would have a problem that you would need a large quantity of ingot molds to handle all that melt you'd be dumping at one time. If your JD does not have ac/heated cab you might want to upgrade so you could comfortably use it year around. Look at all the money you would be saving on ammo.

[PA Bullets]

Been awhile since I last visited this posting...man what fancy and EXPENSIVE swaging equipment pictures.

Okay.....so it is also shown that somebody has compressed water by 12%.....next thing it will be that pigs actually do fly!

I was tinkering with my new toy yesterday.....(my JD tractor) and had a remote cylinder hooked up that goes to my disk harrow. If I could remote the control valves to my bench.......I already the hydraulic delivery system...hehe. This cylinder is a big bastard...the rod/piston about 1 1/4" and the cylinder or tube maybe 4" in diameter. It extends about 12". I don't have the GPM specs for the hyd. pump or any of that technical BS in front of me.......but I think it's enough:). I can only assume that when the cylinder hits the end of the stroke, the bypass/relief valve opens on the pump side..is this correct thinking?

Hmm.....this may be an outside operation and a warm weather project..but I'm working on it.

RCE.Co - Multi Swage Press-At PA Bullet's
http://www.marlinowners.com/gallery/albums/userpics/Multi%20swage%20on%20bench.jpg

RCE.Co - Hydra Swage Press - At PA Bullet's

http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/Hyra%20Swage%20top%20shot.jpg

The Hydra Swage press shown has a 3 inch diameter RAM and puts out
9.800.000 PSI on a two inch plate and is a 440 V three phase 5 Hp custom built Swage press in my shop as is the multi swage press .

The CHP-1 Swage Press belongs to Copper Head Custom Bullet's

All the hydra/ swage press have limit switchs on them
Some are optical some are pressure sensitive the Big Hydraulic like the
Hydra and the Hydro come with three diffrent settings one is optical
the next is Pressure the last is manul setting for the press


Martin

[PatMarlin]

Quick- Cast Booliteers run for the hills!.. :shock:

[PA Bullets]

Gezz don't run off .. i didnt mean it to sound ..Well snooty ..

Folks that cast and folks that swage have alot in common i was trying to say hello and trying to add somthing to the topic ... Thats all guy's

The whole point being .. if you redo a reloading press so it runs on hydrolics be carefull you can brake some press before you know it not to mention the swage dies as well and reloading dies..


Martin
Owner/PA Bullet's

[45nut]

Martin you are quite welcome here,the run for the hills comment was tongue in cheek I am sure. We have been on the swaging topics before and will in the future I am sure,,we are on common ground.
Buckshot's forays in swaging are successful and quite interesting to read.
Another Orygun resident huh? I was a resident of the north coast for years and year before I moved to central Orygun,traffic on 101,forests gated and locked,clamming cut off due to red tide,salmon decline all lead to my departure. Love the central orygun area but am heading to Yachats in a couple weeks for a Elk hunt. Am taking mere pistols for the hunt,,Encores in 458Win Mag and a 50 Alaskan. Backup is my Savage Striker in 358 Win. All cast loads,500grs for the big guys and 225gr in the striker. Should be fun,am hoping for a lil sun on my hunt .......

[PA Bullets]

Martin you are quite welcome here,the run for the hills comment was tongue in cheek I am sure. We have been on the swaging topics before and will in the future I am sure,,we are on common ground.
Buckshot's forays in swaging are successful and quite interesting to read.
Another Orygun resident huh? I was a resident of the north coast for years and year before I moved to central Orygun,traffic on 101,forests gated and locked,clamming cut off due to red tide,salmon decline all lead to my departure. Love the central orygun area but am heading to Yachats in a couple weeks for a Elk hunt. Am taking mere pistols for the hunt,,Encores in 458Win Mag and a 50 Alaskan. Backup is my Savage Striker in 358 Win. All cast loads,500grs for the big guys and 225gr in the striker. Should be fun,am hoping for a lil sun on my hunt .......

Thanks for the Welcome .. i just didn't want to start out having the folks here think i was trying to make trouble .. sometime i might sound like that i sure dont want to get under anyones skin here ...

My Friend Ted Smith got me started swaging
I am in Coos Bay, Oregon


Sounds like your packing for bear :-D 458Win Mag and all ...
question ? -- Can a person buy a barrel for the Encore in 50-110 i have never shoot one of them in my life i have seen a few but never shot one


Do you swage up any or just cast my one and only mould is an mould made buy winchester i found it in the dump when i was a kid its for a 307 diameter
181 grain bullet i used it maybe 3 times i made maybe 400 bullets with it
thats it .

Question again ... do folks here post up pictures of the cast shops or cast rooms ? it would be kinda nice to see the other fellows set up's

Thanks once again folks

Martin
Owner/PA Bullet's

[PatMarlin]

Aw Schucks... PA-

Ifn you knew me you'd know I was just funin' about... :mrgreen:



...

[PatMarlin]

Back when I was a kid my band played at a place called "The Sportsmans Club" in Coos Bay. Is that place still there?

I remember a pretty red head, and a very small cove on the ocean not to far from there one night. Had a real nice sandy beach... :mrgreen:

[PA Bullets]

Back when I was a kid my band played at a place called "The Sportsmans Club" in Coos Bay. Is that place still there?

I remember a pretty red head, and a very small cove on the ocean not to far from there one night. Had a real nice sandy beach... :mrgreen:

Sorry to say no its not and fairly soon the theater next to it will be gone as well it was a land mark and now its just going o sit there and fall away into disrepair..

We all at some time ended up with sand in are pants as it were :wink:

Sunset Beach ... and basendorf beach are along the route out there as well as shore acres..

Martin

Owner/PA Bullet's

[45nut]

http://www.gunloads.com/modules/Gallery/albums/Feburary-Photo-Contest/45nut.jpg
Top is my 50 Alaskan 16" SS OTT built Encore,below that the 458 Win Mag . Same specs,,,Express sights on both with 2 folding leaves and 2x Leupold EER scopes. SS frames on both.
The 50-110 is certainly possible in the encore,the barrel-maker referred to OTT (http://www.ottllc.com/) has made himself a monster called the 510 Pounder,,460 Weatherby case necked up to 50 cal. If it can handle that the lil 50-110 would be a breeze. Whether you can handle it,,,lol,well that up to you but his brakes are VERY effective.
I dont have any swage dies,but do have a ancient beastly press out in the shed that might work with the right setup.
That Winchester mold was a nice find BTW.

[PA Bullets]

:shock:
http://www.gunloads.com/modules/Gallery/albums/Feburary-Photo-Contest/45nut.jpg
Top is my 50 Alaskan 16" SS OTT built Encore,below that the 458 Win Mag . Same specs,,,Express sights on both with 2 folding leaves and 2x Leupold EER scopes. SS frames on both.
The 50-110 is certainly possible in the encore,the barrel-maker referred to OTT (http://www.ottllc.com/) has made himself a monster called the 510 Pounder,,460 Weatherby case necked up to 50 cal. If it can handle that the lil 50-110 would be a breeze. Whether you can handle it,,,lol,well that up to you but his brakes are VERY effective.
I dont have any swage dies,but do have a ancient beastly press out in the shed that might work with the right setup.
That Winchester mold was a nice find BTW.
Is there a stock attchment for those pistols that a person can buy ?

O Soo you want a litle fire power do ya .. Okedoky.
http://www.bulletsmiths.info/gallery/albums/userpics/Ed%20Hubel%20and%20PA%20Bullets%201000%20grain.jpg
Woodleigh 1000 grain on the far left and a PA's 1000 grain in the middle next to a small stack of PA's . These bullets are .700 Diameter and ment for Ed Hubels 700 Hubel Express the 3.85 case length dives these little buggers
at about 3000 FPS ... Or about like having a 3 bedroom house dropped on one head :shock:

Anytime you want buddy i will be happy to ship you out one of the 1000 grain bullets for free there real killers and if you put powder behind it :Fire: :shock: :shock: there in a 0.050 jacket there a 10deg semi round nose taper Heck fired from a sling shot there deadly


I really like your pistols there.. whats the going price on one of those SS ones ?


Martin
Owner/PA Bullet's

[45nut]

Oh yeah,,they make shoulder stocks for Encore's,,lot's of folks use'm that way. It a enhanced TC Contender basically,built up to take the higher pressure rounds the Contender was never meant to.
Prices on SS Encore frame varies,I paid nearly $300 for one,,and only $175 for the next. Local sales are hard to come by but Jerry's Sports has always had them in stock and I just had one sent to my ffl.
We have a common big bore affliction it seems,I have Enfields for my biggest toys,500A2,416RM,458Lott and 458x2,375-338,340 Weatherby in progress,ect.ect.
SO many choices,,,,so much fun. So Much POWDER. :D

[PA Bullets]

Oh yeah,,they make shoulder stocks for Encore's,,lot's of folks use'm that way. It a enhanced TC Contender basically,built up to take the higher pressure rounds the Contender was never meant to.
Prices on SS Encore frame varies,I paid nearly $300 for one,,and only $175 for the next. Local sales are hard to come by but Jerry's Sports has always had them in stock and I just had one sent to my ffl.
We have a common big bore affliction it seems,I have Enfields for my biggest toys,500A2,416RM,458Lott and 458x2,375-338,340 Weatherby in progress,ect.ect.
SO many choices,,,,so much fun. So Much POWDER. :D

Ahh Now you need a 550 Magnum or a 550 Express

The
550 Magnum uses a 3" 460 Weatherby cylindrical case and a .550" bullet diameter and feeds through a standard all
factory 375 H&H CZ 550 magnum action. The action will hold and feed 3 staggered down and one in the chamber and
to the best of my knowledge is the most practical and powerful "standard" cartridge in the world. Any quality gunsmith
can take a CZ 375 H&H and rebarrel it to the 550 Magnum and adjust the feed rails and feed ramp. Currently 4 barrels
companies are producing barrels for the .55 caliber. Classic Barrel and Gun works, Badger Ordinance, Pacnor, and
Bauska Barrels. Brass can be made from resizing 460 Weatherby which the cases are a little short but you will not know
the difference or can be made from cylindrical. Cases can also be ordered from this site, Quality Cartridge, and Midway.
Bullets are available here at this site, from Hawk bullet company, Alaskan bullet works in producing a custom run, solids,
and cast bullets. To date the 550 Magnum has pushed a 700 gr jacketed soft point to 2,375 fps and 8,750 ft/lbs of
muzzle energy. Recoil is much less than what all shooter have expected. Accuracy is great and the shooter must work
up to the cartridge and rifle potential.

http://www.custombrassandbullets.com/index.html

Martin
Owner/PA Bullet's

[HTRN]

Wow, what a small world - running into Martin here...

Martin, How are ya? Welcome to the Cast Boolits board. Yah, I'm the same one running with Digital Dan & Crew in the small game forum.. There are a good bunch of guys here, with none of the nastyness and vitriol of some forums we both know...


HTRN

[Frank46]

Guys, all this talk of presses. Has anyone given any thought to using an arbor press?.
These are used for pressing bearings, shafts or using broaches to cut keyways. I have seen used ones some time ago. Maybe enco or one of the other machine shop supply houses sells them. I remember seeing a picture of one bullet maker (barnes bullets?.)
using one big one to do bullet swaging. Just a thought Frank

[PA Bullets]

Wow, what a small world - running into Martin here...

Martin, How are ya? Welcome to the Cast Boolits board. Yah, I'm the same one running with Digital Dan & Crew in the small game forum.. There are a good bunch of guys here, with none of the nastyness and vitriol of some forums we both know...


HTRN


Hey!! guy :grin: Thanks for the welcome .

Ya today we got are first troll on our board :twisted:
Seems some folks can live without been rude to others .

Drop by the bulletsmithing forum some time i had a link put up to this site on our forum ..

Once again thanks for the welcome

Martin

Owner/PA Bullet's

[PA Bullets]

Guys, all this talk of presses. Has anyone given any thought to using an arbor press?.
These are used for pressing bearings, shafts or using broaches to cut keyways. I have seen used ones some time ago. Maybe enco or one of the other machine shop supply houses sells them. I remember seeing a picture of one bullet maker (barnes bullets?.)
using one big one to do bullet swaging. Just a thought Frank

The Arbor type press is very much link the one used at Alaska Bullet Company
with the aid of a few extra items attached . thay run i think it is 8 dies at once .

Most any good Arbor press can be used as long as you understand
that its going to take some refitting to get it to work and hold up

But for all that why not just buy a Wallnut hills swage press and be done with it there only around 250.00 and there ready to go . and can handle swage dies up to .550 diameter . I mean heck guys i started out making my .jacketed .700 diameter bullets on the multi swage press and the dies are the same outside diameter as the wallnut hills dies are there just longer by a bit


Martin
Owner/PA Bullet's