Ovideo Mauser

[richhodg66]

How are these actions as opposed to other 93 Mausers?

A guy at a local gun show this afternoon had one that had been decently sporterized, reasonably nice walnut stock, Fajen or Bishop I think, some kind of civilian sights (open, I'll have to have something else) and the bore looked good. Looked to me if it had a peep sight on it, would be a handy rifle for the woods.

It was a cheap asking price and pretty sure tomorrow afternoon, I could have it for cheaper. I recently started playing around with a better sporterized 93 Mauser in 7x57 and really like it. As a result, I am beginning to binge load 7x57, gathered a lot of brass, etc, need to cast a bunch more bullets. I'd like to have that other rifle if it's cheap enough and if the actions are sound enough. I've heard the Spanish ones aren't up to par, is that true?

[HangFireW8]

Oviedo's are well made but have a reputation for soft steel. The primary thing you need to inspect for is excessive headspace caused by locking lug setback. Used within reasonable pressure limitations, they can last night forever. I'm not slamming Oviedo's. Really, every old Mauser should be checked for locking lug setback and headspace, even the '98's.

Also all '93 Mausers are old and have been used with corrosive ammo, and many have cleaning damage, which may not be obvious but usually manifests itself in a cone-shaped muzzle the last several inches, and/or an overly rounded crown. This can be subtle but always results in piss-poor accuracy.

[richhodg66]

The bore in this one looked good. I hardly ever load jacketed bullets or full power loads in much of anything anymore, and I fully plan to deer hunt with cast in the 7x57 eventually. This would be a really neat woods rifle if it will shoot reasonably well. I'm tempted to go back tomorrow and do some wheeling and dealing on this, though I need another project rifle like a hole in my head.

[cwtebay]

Oviedo's are well made but have a reputation for soft steel. The primary thing you need to inspect for is excessive headspace caused by locking lug setback. Used within reasonable pressure limitations, they can last night forever. I'm not slamming Oviedo's. Really, every old Mauser should be checked for locking lug setback and headspace, even the '98's.

Also all '93 Mausers are old and have been used with corrosive ammo, and many have cleaning damage, which may not be obvious but usually manifests itself in a cone-shaped muzzle the last several inches, and/or an overly rounded crown. This can be subtle but always results in piss-poor accuracy.HangFireW8 - your response has me to thinking. I have a Hotckiss that chamber casted perfectly, slugged about 0.015" over. The rifle is in beautiful condition, headspace is well within tolerance - but is horribly inaccurate. Is there any sort of diagnostic test that can be easily performed?
Thank you.

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[HangFireW8]

HangFireW8 - your response has me to thinking. I have a Hotckiss that chamber casted perfectly, slugged about 0.015" over. The rifle is in beautiful condition, headspace is well within tolerance - but is horribly inaccurate. Is there any sort of diagnostic test that can be easily performed?

Sure. For cone shaped bore, slug the muzzle to different depths, 1", 2", 3", etc. See if they come out the same, or the shallower depths are larger.

For the crown, examine with the best magnifier you have, if the rifling ends indistinctly or at different depths, it needs to be recrowned.

[cwtebay]

Sure. Slug the muzzle to different depths, 1", 2", 3", etc. See if they come out the same, or the shallower depths are larger.I think I missed my mark on the explanation. I have slugged both ends and they match. I was thinking you were speaking of cleaning rod wobble causing damage mid - bore. I just reslugged it after posting back, it does seem like there is less tension on my slug around 5" in if I try to push it through.
Thank you for the reply!

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[HangFireW8]

Well yes, cleaning rod wear can happen anywhere in the bore, it just usually happens to be worse at either end.

If you have a bore that changes diameters more than once, accuracy might be found with jacketed flat-base bullets of the proper diameter.

Did you have a chance to examine the crown?

[Texas by God]

Map55b is the guy to talk to about Oveido Mausers. I like my 1916 but it's certainly not a Swede or DWM panache-wise.

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[cwtebay]

Well yes, cleaning rod wear can happen anywhere in the bore, it just usually happens to be worse at either end.

If you have a bore that changes diameters more than once, accuracy might be found with jacketed flat-base bullets of the proper diameter.

Did you have a chance to examine the crown?That's funny that you say that about the bullets. I was loading light 45 acp bullets from Barry's with reasonable accuracy. It was recommended to me that I should be using cast with the rifle - and that's when things started to go south and when I slugged the bore, cast the chamber, etc. So between the time you posted and now I loaded 5 rounds with 230 gr round nose bullets and attained a 3 shot group that I can nearly cover with my hand. I appreciate your advice!
As to the crown - it looks like a 135 year old crown that has been cleaned A LOT. It was a Navy model so I'm sure that the salt water didn't help too much, but I have worse in my collection.

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[HangFireW8]

You're welcome.

I'm curious if the OP has picked up that Oviedo?

[richhodg66]

I did. Got it cheap. Turns out when I got it home it's an 8mm, not a problem really, but the bore is a lot worse than I thought taking a quick look in bad light. No big deal as I don't have much in it, just gotta decide what I want to do with it.

I think I still have a short, Swedish Mauser barrel around somewhere, are the threads the same?

[Larry Gibson]

Yes, the threads on a Swedish M96 barrel should be the same.

[Texas by God]

Pics, please?

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[richhodg66]

Yeah, I need to post some.

Looking at it, I'm not comepletely sure it's the original military barrel. They sporterizer (is that a word?) put a rear sight on it that has a blocky base that could be concealing a step or maybe not.

I've heard he won't do military barrels but if JES or someone could bore this to 9.3x57, that would be a neat woods gun.

I've also heard that the Oviedos aren't good candidates for rebarreling due to the lower quality soft steel. I'm sure no expert on Mausers, so not sure.

Was really hoping this would be a nice complement to my other 7x57 sporter and it may yet.

[richhodg66]

After soaking and scrubbing the bore all afternoon, there may be hope. It's worn, but may shoot OK. I have some cast bullets for the .32-40, gotta see if I have some brass and then I'll give her a try.

[HangFireW8]

After soaking and scrubbing the bore all afternoon, there may be hope. It's worn, but may shoot OK. I have some cast bullets for the .32-40, gotta see if I have some brass and then I'll give her a try.

If the rifling is strong, there's hope.

Since there is some doubt as to the barrel, I would slug it and check the rifling twist. I'm not a .318" alarmist, but it's good to know if you're starting with one of those, a nice even .323, or a .3255" Turk barrel.

[richhodg66]

The rifling isn't strong, but may be OK. Gonna get out some cerrosafe and do some checking to see. I have some over sized bullets I was planning to use in my .32-40, just need some brass now.

[David2011]

I have one that was rebarreled to .270 Win. and given to me in that configuration. I feel like that’s too much pressure for an Oviedo action and factory loads. Apparently it’s a poor choice for cast boolits. If it was a 96 or 98 I would shoot it as is.

[Texas by God]

I have one that was rebarreled to .270 Win. and given to me in that configuration. I feel like that’s too much pressure for an Oviedo action and factory loads. Apparently it’s a poor choice for cast boolits. If it was a 96 or 98 I would shoot it as is.It should be ok with starting loads jacketed or cast. Maybe restamp the caliber to 30-06 to prevent factory .270s being used. I'm halfway kidding lol. I'm suprised the magazine will hold .270 length.

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[richhodg66]

Did a quick cerrosafe casting of the first inch of barrel (muzzle end) this evening, seems to be .325-.326, I used a set of dial calipers, not precise I know, but was in a hurry.

These .32-40 bullets I have are .330. I didn't cast them, bought from a gun show to try. Not sure what any of my molds cast as all the bullets I have from them at the moment are sized and lubed, but I'm pretty sure they won't cast big enough.

I'm thinking that 205 grain Lee bullet designed for the 8x56 Austrian may work? Cheap enough to get one and try it I suppose.

[richhodg66]

I have one that was rebarreled to .270 Win. and given to me in that configuration. I feel like that’s too much pressure for an Oviedo action and factory loads. Apparently it’s a poor choice for cast boolits. If it was a 96 or 98 I would shoot it as is.

I personally don't shoot factory ammo in much of anything and anymore, 95% or better of what I shoot is cast in everything. If the bore of that .270 is decent and proper sized, no reason it wouldn't be a good cast shooter.

[HangFireW8]

I haven't tried the Hung. 205 yet, but the MidSouth/Lee 8mm Karabiner will fill a .326" bore, it works well for my .3255" Turk.

[richhodg66]

Is that the standard Lee bullet you can buy or something else?

Think I'm gonna get a .329 sizer and tray some of these plain based bullets I have. With the weak rifling (though it seems smooth, not pitting really), fat bullets may work best.

Now the question, if loading bullets that oversized, I'm pretty sure a standard set of 8x57 dies (I think mine are old Bair dies) aren't going to expand the neck enough to take a bullet that big without sizing it down to where I'm right back to undersized bullets. I'm pretty sure I can figure out a way around that problem, just gotta think about it. Could a guy get a set of 8x56 Austrian dies designed for .329 bullets and neck size 8x57 brass with them?

[HangFireW8]

The Karabiner (and the Maximum) is a MidSouth exclusive, and direct descendent of a forum Group Buy. The dimensions have diverged a bit from the original GB, but both are still big fat 8mm boolits.

You are correct the standard dies serve us poorly. For sizing 8mm I got an RCBS NK "S" die and size bushings. For seating a cheap Lee RGB ST die does fine, but I'm only going to .326" maximum.

For expansion I found the cheapest way to go is the Lee universal expander dies. Sometimes I use mine as-is to flare only, but usually I use the NOE expanders that are made for them. Here's the .326" (the larger number is the flare size):
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=88&products_id=1517

I'm wondering if 0.329 is going to chamber & release OK. NOE doesn't have an expander plug that big either.

[Texas by God]

I've not seen an Oviedo 1916 in 8mm but it makes sense since the 1943 was so chambered and the 8mm was used in the Spanish Civil War. All the 1916s I've seen have been original 7x57 or converted to 7.62 (.308). I did have a Turk 1893 that was converted to 8mm from 7.65 with the mag cutoff removed. I wish I still had it; it was a genuine Mauser.

[nekshot]

Is that the standard Lee bullet you can buy or something else?

Think I'm gonna get a .329 sizer and tray some of these plain based bullets I have. With the weak rifling (though it seems smooth, not pitting really), fat bullets may work best.

Now the question, if loading bullets that oversized, I'm pretty sure a standard set of 8x57 dies (I think mine are old Bair dies) aren't going to expand the neck enough to take a bullet that big without sizing it down to where I'm right back to undersized bullets. I'm pretty sure I can figure out a way around that problem, just gotta think about it. Could a guy get a set of 8x56 Austrian dies designed for .329 bullets and neck size 8x57 brass with them?

I shoot a load to get the neck blown out then I reprime , powder and often use fingers to install boolit. I try us a crimp die to keep every thing in place. I bet I have up to twenty loadings with out sizing. I am not shooting phart loads put keeping bullet accurate for me (1500 to 1800) fps. I drop or lose some as they might fall into cartridge if I am careful enroute to crimper.

[nekshot]

geeez med pfart to me! if I am not careful enroute to crimping. This is why I like real slow powders that fill the case.

[richhodg66]

I shoot a load to get the neck blown out then I reprime , powder and often use fingers to install boolit. I try us a crimp die to keep every thing in place. I bet I have up to twenty loadings with out sizing. I am not shooting phart loads put keeping bullet accurate for me (1500 to 1800) fps. I drop or lose some as they might fall into cartridge if I am careful enroute to crimper.

This is what I was considering doing, just fireforming some cases and not sizing at all and see if I can get away with a bullet that big. I routinely use one of the Lee case flaring dies and like it a lot, but for some cartridges, they need more. I have a .38-55 Marlin conversion that would shoot great big groups with anything. Then I got a set of RCBS Cowboys dies and couldn't believe how dramatic the difference was. I have a feeling this 8mm will be the same way.

In the end, I don't want to put too much trouble into this one, if it doesn't shoot OK as is, Midway has new small ring Mauser barrels in 7x57, which is what I wanted, and I'll wait til my brother, the gun smith is out here again and figure out how to rebarrel it. I like the dimensions and feel of the rifle, and it isn't a bad sporterizing job, not professional, but a whole lot better than the garage hack saw Bubba jobs you usually see. It's certainly chambered in a capable caliber. Sights will be the biggest problem, I don't do open sights well, so there's that.

If it doesn't pan out, I didn't get burned too much, it was cheap.

[richhodg66]

The Karabiner (and the Maximum) is a MidSouth exclusive, and direct descendent of a forum Group Buy. The dimensions have diverged a bit from the original GB, but both are still big fat 8mm boolits.

You are correct the standard dies serve us poorly. For sizing 8mm I got an RCBS NK "S" die and size bushings. For seating a cheap Lee RGB ST die does fine, but I'm only going to .326" maximum.

For expansion I found the cheapest way to go is the Lee universal expander dies. Sometimes I use mine as-is to flare only, but usually I use the NOE expanders that are made for them. Here's the .326" (the larger number is the flare size):
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=88&products_id=1517

I'm wondering if 0.329 is going to chamber & release OK. NOE doesn't have an expander plug that big either.

That Midsouth Karabiner looks like a winner. Might have to wait til payday, but I think I'll try that one.

[HangFireW8]

One caveat I should mention. It feeds in some rifles well and not others. For my 98 it is fine. For my 93 it feeds OK from the right side single loaded, not from the left side. That big meplat hits the corner of the breech. I haven't tried fixing the feed ramp or rails yet.

But it shoots great!

[leadman]

Check Green Mountain Barrels website for a barrel also. Sometimes they have barrels really cheap.
I use the Lyman "M" die neck expanders for almost all of my cast bullet loading. Lyman will sell just the expander to go in the die so cost is reduced once you have the proper siz0e body. They make 2 or 3 lengths of die bodies.

[richhodg66]

I got bored Sunday and the weather sucked, so I made some 8x57 cases out of old GI .30-06 brass. It was easier than I thought and since I haven't managed to scrounge any brass yet, it'll do.

I got a .328 die for my Lyman 450 in the mail today. Gonna go out later and lube up some of those plain based .32-40 bullets I mentioned and see if they'll load and chamber at that diameter. I probably won't get to shoot any til Sunday, but I'm hoping they'll tell me whether the rifle is worth pursuing or not.

[Texas by God]

Maybe you'll take pics of BOTH your sr mausers......hint/razz

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[richhodg66]

I've shot it a few times now, spent this morning shooting a few groups. Brass is some I made from old LC 54 military brass. Bullets are what appear to be old 323357s I got from a guy at a gun show who was selling of a friend's estate stuff and these looked good and were about the cost of lead scrap in my estimation. I have .32 rifle molds, just decided to use these, run through a .328 sizer which didn't really do anything except clean up the bases a little.

I loaded these in front of 9.5 grains of Alcan 120 which burns like Red Dot. After fireforming my cases, I neck sized them in an 8x50 Austrian hoping that wouldn't squeeze the bullets much as 8x57 dies would. I belled the mouths using a Lee Universal Expander. Bullets are seated way out, only used the first half or so of the case neck. I didn't do anything to take the bell out of the case mouth and they chambered easily. I shot several groups at 50 yards single loading them and got three inch groups. Considering I don't shoot open sights well and the trigger pull is pretty bad, I'm not unhappy with that from a pretty worn bore and first attempt at loading ammo for it. All in all, for a real cheap rifle off a gun show table, I think I did alright. Not gonna put any money into it, but it seems OK as is.

[richhodg66]

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[Texas by God]

I like it. That's a Fajen stock I think. You did good from what I see and a 93 sporter in 8mm you don't see often. 3" at 50 yds will hunt and is a good start.

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[richhodg66]

Does anyone have info on that rear sight? It was obviously designed to conceal the step in a military barrel, which it does. A very simple arrangement, two screws that move it side to side and one to move it up and down, no set screws. Front is a commercial as well, barrel band type. Not bad as open sights go, just never seen a rear like that.

[Texas by God]

The rear sight resembles the Browning Safari model from years ago, but it's definitely not one.

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[richhodg66]

I doubt I'll do it, but it wouldn't take much to put a receiver sight on it. I just don't think this one will be worth putting much into, but it's fun. My deer hunting is usually real close against unsuspecting deer and I'm sure this one would do the job, but we'll see. It's certainly in a capable enough chambering.

[Texas by God]

It'll grow on you. I love my 1926 Oviedo sporter that looks much like yours.

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[richhodg66]

Was that .30-30 you built on one of these actions?

[Texas by God]

Was that .30-30 you built on one of these actions?Yes sir, that is the action I am referring to.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180424/ca9c6f2b0a0587034e3d58a07c97a37d.jpg

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[nekshot]

all these pictures are spelling love! I really like my 98's but I like these smaller actions a wee bit more! I just wish I had bought a pile of them when I bought all my 98s. Those are really nice looking guns.

[richhodg66]

They're growing on me too. This one is a toy for the most part, but I lucked into a decently sporterized '93 in 7x57 a few months ago that I have fallen in love with. Shot this target at 100 yards with it the other day.
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[Texas by God]

Well, now we need to see the 7x57 as well. If mine had shot that well it might have stayed a 7mm- but three 175 rn factory Federal made a 14" pattern at 40 yards. That sealed the rebarrel project for sure.

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[richhodg66]

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After market barrel, laminated stock, low swing safety, about the only things he didn't do was install a better trigger and grind the mag follower so it doesn't lock open when empty, even had the Weaver K4 on it now when I bought it, though I did put it in better rings. It's a very slim, easy handling and pointing rifle. Cost $250 out the door, I think I did alright. By the way, it's a for real made in Berlin, not an Oviedo.

[Texas by God]

That is nice. Worthy of a trigger!

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[richhodg66]

Probably so. It's a neat rifle, I had always wanted a 7x57 sporter and had a few over the years, but none of them ever clicked with me for one reason or another and they all went down the road. This one is a keeper.

[Larry Gibson]

Picked up my Oviedo '28 (just the complete action) back in '68. It hadn't been modified so I figured it had maybe 2 -3 7.57 barrels on it if that. I forged the bolt handle, d&t'd if for a scope and Lyman 48 receiver sight, rebarreled with a Star 24" .308W barrel and bedded it in a Richards Micro fit stock. Used it extensively through the seventies shooting out the 1st barrel and then a second barrel in .308W (I had access to lots of 7.62 M80 ball). When I rebarreled it with the 2nd .308W barrel I also converted the bolt to cock on opening.

When the 2nd barrel was shot out I had a new 2 groove '03A3 barrel shortened and installed chambering it to a cast bullet cartridge of my own; the 308 CBC. That was the .308W case with the shoulder set back giving it a 30-06 length neck. The case held just enough 4895 to drive the 311284 at 2200 fps. I was expecting very good accuracy because the '03A3 barrel was supposed to be just the ticket for those long bore riding nosed cast bullets. Didn't turn out that way as I didn't understand the adverse affect of RPM at that time. Thus best accuracy runs at 1850 - 1940 fps with the 311291, 311041, 311284 and 311299,314299. Just the same as with the standard '06 two and 4 groove barrels. Knowing what I know now and since I was forming cases anyway rebarreling with a 26" barrel in 30x57 (CBC) with a 4 groove 14" twist barrel would have been a better choice, even better than rebarreling to 7x57.

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[Texas by God]

Larry, is that 30 x 5/7 CBC exactly what it says? CBC meaning cast bullet cartridge? The 7mm Mauser necked up to 30 caliber? I used that same model of Richard stock on a 96 Swedish Mauser to make a very nice Sporter.

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[Larry Gibson]

Yes the 30x57 is basically the 7x57 necked up. It is formed in shortened 30-06 dies [shortened just enough for an 8x57 case so the shoulder set back so the neck is 30-06 length] using 7x57, 8x57 or any of the '06 family of cartridge cases. The cases are very, very easy to form. The use of regular '06 dies and '06 reamers cuts way down on the cost as no custom dies or reamers are needed. I suggest shortening the '06 FL die appropriately to form the case, form 3 cases to headspace with and then use '06 reamers to short chamber to headspace the formed 30x57 cases. It's that easy.

The case also has the appropriate taper so no alteration to Mauser feed rails is needed for 100% feeding. The case capacity is very close to a .308W (maybe a gr or two more depending on how far you set the shoulder back) but due to the taper a .308W should not chamber. Additionally since there is no equivalent commercial cartridge you control the psi of any loaded rounds jacketed or cast that will be used in the action. It is an excellent cartridge to use when rebarreling a SR Mauser action, especially if a 14" twist barrel is used.

Yes, "CBC" does stand for Cast Bullet Cartridge.

[vzerone]

Picked up my Oviedo '28 (just the complete action) back in '68. It hadn't been modified so I figured it had maybe 2 -3 7.57 barrels on it if that. I forged the bolt handle, d&t'd if for a scope and Lyman 48 receiver sight, rebarreled with a Star 24" .308W barrel and bedded it in a Richards Micro fit stock. Used it extensively through the seventies shooting out the 1st barrel and then a second barrel in .308W (I had access to lots of 7.62 M80 ball). When I rebarreled it with the 2nd .308W barrel I also converted the bolt to cock on opening.

When the 2nd barrel was shot out I had a new 2 groove '03A3 barrel shortened and installed chambering it to a cast bullet cartridge of my own; the 308 CBC. That was the .308W case with the shoulder set back giving it a 30-06 length neck. The case held just enough 4895 to drive the 311284 at 2200 fps. I was expecting very good accuracy because the '03A3 barrel was supposed to be just the ticket for those long bore riding nosed cast bullets. Didn't turn out that way as I didn't understand the adverse affect of RPM at that time. Thus best accuracy runs at 1850 - 1940 fps with the 311291, 311041, 311284 and 311299,314299. Just the same as with the standard '06 two and 4 groove barrels. Knowing what I know now and since I was forming cases anyway rebarreling with a 26" barrel in 30x57 (CBC) with a 4 groove 14" twist barrel would have been a better choice, even better than rebarreling to 7x57.

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Larry I know that if you had been casting bullets with a .1 grain variation between bullets you would have shot much better groups with that 2 groove barrel. I know you read my 1909 Argentine post and it shot very well for a 9.8 twist. My bullet weights were very consistent and that was a 10 shot group that I've repeated to make sure it wasn't just luck, so it's my go to load for that Argentine.

[richhodg66]

So if I were to get a Timney trigger for an Oviedo, I would order the M95-6 model of this one, is that correct?

https://www.timneytriggers.com/shop/timney-mauser-sportsman-replacement-trigger.aspx

After a little fooling with it using oversized bullets and I now have the Lee mold for the Hungarian straight pulls and over sized sizers, I think this rifle is worth putting a little effort into.

[Texas by God]

I would check with the gunsmith hotline at Brownells. Apparently there are two different lengths of trigger blade on the Timney for the small ring Mauser. The one I have on my 1916 small ring has a short trigger blade that is noticeable but is no problem while shooting it.
I hope this helps.

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[richhodg66]

Thanks for the tip.

[map55b]

My friend built a 7.62x57 SMR too. Used a 30-06 reamer run short and made dies from shortening a set of 30-06 dies 6mm. He uses 8x57 brass to make the cases with just one pass though the sizing die. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. He says he built it from "junk," NOS Springfield 03 barrel, FN 94 action and Swedish Mauser stock. ;)

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[Larry Gibson]

map55b

If your friend used an '06 reamer with integral neck his case aols are considerably short for the chamber as the necks using formed 8x57 are too short. His chamber is essentially the same as my 30x60 XCB cartridge. I form my 30x60 cases using 30-06 brass.

Here is the 308 CBC, the 308W, the 30x57 (with '06 length neck), the 30x60 XCB and the 30-06. The 30x57 and the 30x60 and formed using shortened '06 dies. A 30-06 reamer is also used to short chamber the barrel to headspace on the formed cartridge. Both are excellent cartridges for Mauser actions.

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