Ed Harris 312-160 (Lee and NOE) questions

[PBSmith]

Have read a couple of posts here about a Lee group buy from 4 years back for Ed Harris' 312-160 and also looked at the NOE Harris 312-160 FN version.

Wondering if the current Lee 6-cavity mold in that bullet is "the original" Ed Harris design. Anyone know of a drawing showing details of the design?

According to NOE's diagram, their bullet is tapered and has a meplat. IS this closer to the original than what Lee sells?

Thanks.

[Yodogsandman]

Lee has changed the original Harris design over the years to make manufacturing easier. They seem to work the same.

Many group buys for a similar boolit design have happened through the years with different designers and honchos and Lee was the manufacturer. When I searched for the same general thing, Buckshot had some
comparisons and sage information.

The Arsenal 6 cavity mold is the older Harris design.

NOE has the most recent Ed Harris designed boolit. More sizes available makes it the best for more shooters. The metplat makes it a better hunting boolit.

[Outpost75]

Accurate also has a clone which is similar to the NOE bullet, but with larger meplat:

217663217664

[lotech]

The original C. E. Harris design was made by NEI. I still have one. It makes an accurate bullet. I think it's a bit different than the Lee version.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

JT (HM²) made a version as well.

I didn't get in on the GB, but I bought one later from JT, when he was doing some closet cleaning. I believe the mold I got was one JT was experimenting with to have less meplat and more of a point. But it's very similar to the Lee.

HM² are lubed (on the left) ... Lee 'as dropped' (on Right) also, the Lee has shallow lube grooves.
217677

JT made some sweet molds, second to none in my book.
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[Outpost75]

Yes, JT made one also, no longer available, but I like the one I have and this is the drawing:

217682

[PBSmith]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

Yodog wrote,

"Lee has changed the original Harris design over the years to make manufacturing easier."

Would I be guessing correctly if I guessed that Lee straight-sided the nose to make manufacturing easier?

IF this is what Lee did, does anyone know the current nose diameter of the two Lee versions (one conventional groove, one TL)? I can't find a drawing of the Lee moulds (bullets).

[Outpost75]

The tapered nose of the Harris bullet is the primary design feature which I think enables it to shoot so well in such a variety of calibers and barrels. I gave up on old configuration 2-diameter bullets years ago, and tend to favor the tapered nose Accurate designs in most calibers. The NOE tapered nose designs also shoot very well, but you are more limited in choices.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks, all, for your responses.

Yodog wrote,

"Lee has changed the original Harris design over the years to make manufacturing easier."

Would I be guessing correctly if I guessed that Lee straight-sided the nose to make manufacturing easier?

IF this is what Lee did, does anyone know the current nose diameter of the two Lee versions (one conventional groove, one TL)? I can't find a drawing of the Lee moulds (bullets).
I can't say for 100% positivity about Today's current production, but I can't believe they'd make that design into a bore rider?

I have a Lee 2 cav CTL312-160-2r that I bought new in 2015, and it has a tapered nose.

The lee boolit photo I posted above are samples I got from another member, they are the C312-155-2r. They have a tapered nose, but I don't know how exactly old the mold is, The handwritten note I have with those sample says they were cast with a ebay sourced 6 cav mold, I believe that ebay seller had a batch of custom 6 cavity molds made (before Lee offered it standard in a 6 cavity mold)...So that dates it at least 5 or 6 years ago.

[Outpost75]

The original Ed Harris design NEI #63 had small .087" meplat, but was not sharp-nosed like the Lee. Ed told me that Lee wanted their bullet to more nearly resemble ball ammo in appearance, it was strictly a marketing thing. Ed collaborated on all the later designs from HM2, NOE and Accurate after having determined that flatnosed bullets indeed fed reliably in the SKS and AK platforms, and he recommended a 0.155" meplat as being suitable in the .30-30 for tubular magazines, because this was the same meplat diameter as found in factory Winchester Silvertip and Power-Point .30-30 loads. I know for a fact that Ed used this bullet in the .30-30 Winchester, ignoring the crimp groove, but loading to 2.50" OAL using a compressed case full, about 31.5-32 grains of IMR4064, RL15 or Varget, compressing the powder about 1/8" with the GC base of the bullet, as he likes to say, "in EXACTLY the same manner as if loading black powder." to prevent telescoping from compression of the magazine spring.

In MY pre-WW2 Winchester 94 the forepart of the bullet is lightly engraved upon chambering, but in the deep seating at 2.50" OAL does not require force to close the lever. That compressed case-full of 4064 is a full charge load, not lower in velocity than factory 170s and in 1:4 lino-wheelweights deer cannot tell the difference.

[PBSmith]

JonB: I noticed that ebayer with the 6-cavity.

I had a small batch cast in a Lee CTL312 number (unknown mold type), and they shot well. Hoping to get a Lee mold that throws the same bullet would be casino times.

Therefore, given the multitude of Lee molds kicking around for this bullet design, and the uncertainty as to what any one of them casts, I've decided to avoid that maker and go with NOE. Your remarks, together with my total satisfaction on another NOE mold, helped me reach that decision.

Outpost: I appreciate the history and details you offer. Sounds to me like this bullet could work well in my application. Also saves me the hassle of trying to figure out which of the conventional .30-30 FN designs to try. I believe most of them were (are) two-diameter designs. Thanks.

[ShooterAZ]

I have the Noe 2-cav mold, I got it in the group buy a couple of years ago. It shoots well in all of my 30 cals (except the Mosin-Nagant, needs .314) I also have the Lee 312-155, but prefer the Noe version because of the flat point and deeper lube groove. Both shoot well however.

[KVO]

I noted awhile back that NOE has essentially two versions of the C.E. Harris design, I presume the earlier 311-155FN was a facsimile before the original designer was referenced. Aside from the sight diameter differences between the two, I would venture to guess that they are close enough to be indistinguishable from one another in real-world performance. Anyone have experience with both of the below designs?

217798
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[Outpost75]

Yes, JT made one also, no longer available, but I like the one I have and this is the drawing:

217682

The NOE 160FN shown in post #13 above appears to be a clone of this.

[Yodogsandman]

NOE 312-160 discussion.... http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/topic,472.0.html