Concealed carry pocket pistol

[Harry]

I'm waiting for my CCW license any day. I have an old, old, Savage model 1907
32 cal pocket pistol. It shoots "OK". I'm considering carrying this. I need opinions on: 1. available HP 32ACP ammo. 2. Stopping power of a 32 cal. I plan on locating a gunsmith locally and have the pistol given a good going-over.

[missionary5155]

The Europeans and many South Americans think .32´s and .380 are wonderful calibers for carry... Me I will stick with the 5 shot 38 speacials and 150 grain pure lead SWC +P ammo. My Rossi is fitted with HIP-GRIPS and probably wieghs less than most small semi-autos. But the +P 150 grain lead SWC is more than a .32 can ever be.

[Slogg76]

While I would consider a 32 Auto less than minimal for carry, I do find myself throwing my 32 auto chambered FN 1922 in my pocket from time to time due to its slim profile and small size. IMHO the 32 auto is better than a .22 and a great deal better than a 25 auto for personal protection. I think Fiocci loads hornady's 60 grain XTP HP in some of their loads and that would probably be my choice for a HP round. However, many of those old autos are designed to feed FMJ ball ammo only and will hang up on hollow points. Others will argue that the velocity is so low with the 32 auto that expansion is unreliable with HP's and you are better off using FMJ's for better penetration. I currently carry Remington FMJ ammo in mine because it is reliable and VERY accurate out of my FN 1922. I hope to have some of the Hornady XTP's either handloaded or in a factory version soon for testing.

[missionary5155]

I decided I should include a picture of my Rossi 5 shot with a 150 grain SWC 38 special+P

[kingstrider]

If your .32 is 100% reliable I would carry it until a suitable replacement is found. A mouse gun is better than nothing but I prefer something bigger and a .380 is the absolute minimum I would feel comfortable with on the street. Oh I'll sometimes carry a little mouse gun while in the woods, but that's usually just as a backup to my rifle or shotgun. I've also ran short errands with one in my pocket but it always feels sort of like being naked.

[leadeye]

A S&W model 38 is what I use now. With the hammer shroud and 38 special chambering, it is hard to beat.

[Lloyd Smale]

the 32 will work. A guy has to keep in mind that your gun is for protection. Your not a cop that is chasing down crack crazed loonys. I would bet that 75 percent of all altercations where a civilian draws his weapon are finsihed right there. Most people wont argue with a gun and very few ask which caliber it is before they decide whether to fight back or not. I havent carried a 32 but do carry a .25 or a 380 and the 32 falls right in the middle of them.

[1Shirt]

Have to agree with Lloyd! Just the presence of a gun is a great deteramt. However IF you have to pull the trigger on a 32 in defense, I would pull it until I ran out of ammo.
1Shirt!:coffee:

[chickenstripe]

In order of importance: 100% functional Reliability, Good Accuracy, and then pick good defense ammo.....

I agree that anything is better than nothing, but I always leave the house with the thought..... would I stake my life on the carried cartridge/gun that I have?

That's one reason I don't carry guns smaller than a 9mm..... but YMMV.

If your confident in your equipment, you can't ask for much more than that. Besides, those bull barrels make them look like they're a .45!!

[McKenzie]

At a recent gun show, I spotted a Kel Tec 9mm I had been unaware of. The PF9 is a very slim, DAO, 9mm. I usually carry it in a pocket holster, in a front pocket. It just disappears. If memory serves, it is 7+1.

It's not a gun most of us would enjoy plinking with. The grip is so slender it is wondrous that they can get even a single stack of 9mm in it. With self defense rounds the recoil is sharp and the very narrow grip doesn't help. It isn't so bad that you wouldn't want to practice with it, but I have better guns for "fun" shootin.

Since I carry it for defense only, if I ever need it, the recoil won't be a factor. It also carries invisibly in an IWB holster or an ankle holster, if your pockets aren't as large.

Cheers...

[Bret4207]

The Savage was considered a very reliable pistol in it's day. If it feeds reliably I'd have no qualms about carrying it. Fiocchi makes some fairly good (warm) ammo. I think there are +P American loads available but I'm not sold on expanding bullets in the smaller lower powered calibers.

[Lloyd Smale]

dont get me wrong i carry bigger guns too. Most of the time i have a 1911 comander on me but theres times that my clothes dont allow it or i just plain forget to bring something. the 380 ruger stays in the console of the truck and i can grab it and two extra clips and stick them in my pocket whereever im going and whatever im wearing. i need to get another for the jeep and one for the old ladys car too. dont know if ill get a couple rugers or go back to the beretta .25s. There both dammed good guns.

[Down South]

S&w 642

[10-x]

+1 for Colt Light Weight Commander, .45 ACP when weather allows, Walther PPKS in .380 the rest of the time. Try "Glasser Safety Slugs" for small calibers. IIRC a test was done way back when they came out. They had to shoot a horse with a broken leg. Vet was there with some kind of moniter , 1 round and the horse was dead before it hit the ground from a .380!!

[anachronism]

Seriously? Get something else. If you are going to serious enough about defending your life by carrying a gun, at least be serious enough about it to carry something effective. The .32 is not. You can kill someone with a .32, but luck has to be on your side, and a gunfight is a poor time to hope for luck. Start at the .38 SPL/9mm level, and practice, practice, practice.

[HeavyMetal]

Many of the older "pocket" pistols are wonderfully designed.

However you are staking your life on a weapon that is 100 years old! It's not that it won't shoot it's what if it breaks? I do realize anything can go wrong at any time but packin a pistol for self defense that is that old is an engraved invitation for Murphy to stick his finger up your.......

Well lets not go there! My choice for a carry piece is a Star Firestar. single stack comfort small size, That means less bulk than a 38 special cylinder, and 8 rounds of hot 9's on tap and a way faster reload for 7 more! Ambi safty, condition one carry, and fast to see sights!

It works for me.

[Down South]

I made a short answer earlier but I guess my best answer is to pack the biggest piece that you comfortably can. I limit myself to nothing smaller than a 38 J-Frame with +P ammo. It’s not that that 32 won’t kill someone but rather will it stop a dope crazed thug with one or two shots. Just because the BG is shot and possible will die, he can still inflict damage or death before he bits the dust. Larger calibers have more stopping power. Hell, if I could carry my 44 magnum comfortably I would. I do carry one of my .40’s in cooler weather. If it boils down to that you just can’t afford another piece then sure, pack the 32.
I threw up the S&W 642 a while ago but there are all sorts and brands of what I’d consider good pocket pieces. The 642 is my main summer wear revolver with a couple speed strips in my back pocket. I have the laser grips on the 642 and I love em for low light conditions. Practice as much as you can with whatever you decide to carry. Remember the old saying, practice makes perfect. Everytime I'm at my range or just down in the woods shooting some of my other guns, I break out my 642 and shoot a few cylinder fulls with it.

Your 32 is a nice looking gun, but I wouldn't want to take it down in the French Quarter with me late at night. OOps, I was looking at missionary5155's 32. Nice piece there Missionary.

[spurrit]

I'm waiting for my CCW license any day. I have an old, old, Savage model 1907
32 cal pocket pistol. It shoots "OK". I'm considering carrying this. I need opinions on: 1. available HP 32ACP ammo. 2. Stopping power of a 32 cal. I plan on locating a gunsmith locally and have the pistol given a good going-over.


Well, according to Elmer Keith, whom I'm fairly certain we all agree knew a thing or two on the subject, (not an exact quote, but the gist of it) "If you shoot someone with a .32 auto, they're liable to get angry, and resort to violence".

I think he also mentioned, in "Sixguns by Keith" that General Julian Hatcher was shot in the hand several times with one, and he killed the man that did it.

BUT, if it's all ya have, it's all ya have. I just wouldn't pull it out unless I could just about stick it in a guy's ear or eye socket. Practice with it as much as ya can, and be sure it'll work when ya need it to.

P.S.~Mr. Keith mentioned this caliber when talking about ladies' hideout guns.

[Lloyd Smale]

I have no doubt he could have still fought back if he was shot in the hand with a 458 mag! Just keep in mind guys that alot of this caliber comparison stuff you read is just writers making a living. Most opinions you get are from people that have never been in any kind of a shooting including mine. Ive done some pentration and expansion testing with these small guns and so of it would surprise you. I know one thing I wouldnt want to be on the wrong side of a 25acp loaded with gold dots if the operator decided to empty a clip at me. I would bet a dime to a dollar that funeral arrangements would start soon after. You have to remember that just by the nature of being a civilain in a gun fight its going to be an up close and personal thing. Your not going to be 25 yards away and hiding behind a wall and shooting. If your in that situation youd better have enough sense to run. Its going to be when your right up close and cant run and what you will no doubt do is stick a gun in someones chest and shoot till it goes click. I can draw my 25 and get 7 shots off in just over 2 seconds at point blank range. Ive heard many people laugh at these little guns but have yet to have a volunteer to stand there and test his theroy. I guess my main point with this isnt to argue that a small gun is better then a big one. Its not. What it is is convient. It allows me to allways have a gun on me rather then occasionaly having one.

[HATCH]

http://vintagepistols.com/1907/images/savage.jpg

Please don't take this the wrong way.
That pistol may function 100% but do to its age I would be scared of a potential failure when you needed it the most.
If you are set on carrying that weapon then have your smith replace all of the springs.
That model has a firing pin spring also so make sure it is replaced as well.

I have many weapons to choose from for my CWP. I find myself picking out of only 2 of them.
(1) Ruger LCP 380 - This is a clone of a Keltec. I love this pistol and is a decent close range shooter. I only keep FMJ ball ammo in it because I want 100% function (also I haven't shot anything else in it)
(2) Smith & Wesson 640 - 357 mag. This is a J frame revolver all stainless steel.

Advantages to the Revolver over the auto is that if it doesn't go bang when you pull the trigger, you just pull it again to go to the next round. No messing around with trying to pull the slide back and putting a new round in the chamber.

[Cactus Farmer]

In the warmer weather it's a hard thing to hide a pistol so I carry my 950 BS Minx Beretta. And yes it's a 22 short! I don't think anyone would like seven of these 22 short hollow points in their chest. The main thing I look for is reliability. A pistol that doesn't work every time is a short expensive club. :Fire:

[HATCH]

Before I got my Ruger LCP, my standard pocket pistol was a Beretta m-21.
22 Long Rifle.
Basically it is a 30 foot max weapon, but like Farmer said above, 6 or 7 rounds of 22 makes you want to rethink your options.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/th_Charles.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/DrugRunR/Charles.jpg)
Click the pic for high res.
Yes that is a threaded barrel for my suppressor.
Yes, the front site BARELY clears the can but like I said, 30 foot range who needs sites

[txbirdman]

An incident that occured in a neighboring town this summer changed my mind about the ammo to use in my Ruger LCP. It seems that a local policeman was in the city park, off duty with his son when an unleashed pit bull ran from his owner and proceeded to attack the officer's son. The officer had his Keltec .380 loaded with Hornady XTP's and as he stepped between the dog and his son, shot the dog directly in the nose. While it stopped the attack the dog ended up with only a surface wound and fully recovered. I understand that the officer now carries the Buffalo Bore 100 gr. lead FN bullet in his Keltec.

[miestro_jerry]

When I have to carry a pocket size pistol, I can my S&W model 340PD with 38Spl +P ammo in it. This is alight easy to use, reliable pistol. I used to carry a Walther PPK/s, but sold it.

Hatch is correct, you don't have to pull back the slide on a revolver, because it doesn't have one.

I have friends who swear by small H&Ks, small Glocks and other small pistols, I like my S&W, simple, light and very dependable.

Jerry

[chickenstripe]

One interesting fact that I have heard on numerous occasions is that 80% of wounds recieved from handguns are not immediately life threatening. This is good and bad:

- In a self defense situation that equates to a BG on the move... which we do not want.

- In a self preservation situation, it may convince you that you're going to get to see another day.


Firearm self defense training classes would not even allow you to enter into the class with this firearm, and for good reason.

It boils down to having the right tool for the job. The BG might be a dog (as posted previously), might be partially hidden by cover or a barrier that you may need to shoot through, they might be wearing winter clothes, you may have to engage them at an extended range (if they/it are 3-7yds from one of your loved ones, they may be 25yds from you) or you may simply make a marginal shot. All of these things put you at a distinct disadvantage when the chips are down, and you're carrying a marginal tool.

This is a Ford - Chevy Debate, any gun is better than no gun, but I'd rather have the correct tool at my disposal. I remember a quote about carrying a CCW: "It should be comforting, not comfortable". Don't lose sight of the goal of a defensive arm.

I've heard the line before from people carrying 22's 25's etc: Go stand over there and I'll dump this magazine into you, and then you can tell me about small guns..... blah blah blah
Why no one takes people up on this offer is that we are "reasonable" people with morals and the like.... the people/things you are going to encounter, that are attempting to do you harm, are not reasonable and never underestimate the power of adrenaline and its ability to keep the BG going after you have inconvenienced him by fighting back in a marginal way, with a marginal tool.

If the fight is fair, you didn't plan well enough. The fight should end immediatly, right then, right there. The longer the other guy is in the fight, the more things can go wrong.

I'll step off of my soapbox now..... [smilie=1:

Respectfully
chickenstripe

[spurrit]

+1 one with the, "Oh, yeah? Lemme shoot you...." I wouldn't let you hit me with a buggy whip, either! It wouldn't kill me, but it'd hurt like hell!

Bottom line is, it's just like the problem our military is having with 5.56 and 9mm. You're using a round that's marginal on coyotes on deer sized targets, then wondering why it don't work!

[HATCH]

We could argue the issue about caliber size, but like everything else in life it depends on how you use it in a given situation.

Ideally we all wish that when we left the house we could see what is going to happen to us that day. We could see that 300 lb drug addict attack us later so we could plan accordingly.
But it doesn't work that way.

[dbldblu]

I have a Savage just like yours. I would not carry it due to the single safety.

[yondering]

Many of the older "pocket" pistols are wonderfully designed.

However you are staking your life on a weapon that is 100 years old! It's not that it won't shoot it's what if it breaks? I do realize anything can go wrong at any time but packin a pistol for self defense that is that old is an engraved invitation for Murphy to stick his finger up your.......

Well lets not go there! My choice for a carry piece is a Star Firestar. single stack comfort small size, That means less bulk than a 38 special cylinder, and 8 rounds of hot 9's on tap and a way faster reload for 7 more! Ambi safty, condition one carry, and fast to see sights!

It works for me.

Sorry man, I gotta laugh about that one. You say you're worried that his gun will break, but you use a Firestar? C'mon!!?? I had two of them, a 9 and a .40. The head of the firing pin broke off the .40, I managed to find another but it was the last of them in the country as far as I could tell, and that was 10 years ago. The 9 just stopped feeding reliably one day, for no apparent reason. Something to do with the magazine I'm sure, but I didn't change anything. Spanish steel doesn't have the quality it used to (back during the Crusades).

Granted, any gun can break, but it's definitely worth investing in a quality carry piece. When you need it is when it's most likely to break; stack the odds in your favor.

I carry a Kahr .40 S&W. Some will laugh at that one, but it's 100% reliable, lighter and thinner than a S&W snubbie, and throws heavier bullets, faster. Also it was easy to "melt" the edges on the stainless slide. My only complaint is that it's DAO.

[anachronism]

We could argue the issue about caliber size, but like everything else in life it depends on how you use it in a given situation.

Ideally we all wish that when we left the house we could see what is going to happen to us that day. We could see that 300 lb drug addict attack us later so we could plan accordingly.
But it doesn't work that way.


Planning ahead for such possibilities could be the difference between living & dying. It's worth looking at the situation more seriously, and making realistic plans for the possiblities.

Personal survival is no place for minimalism. "Maybe it won't be so bad" is a forlorn hope at best. Carry whatever you want, but keep in mind that you may not get a second chance.

[HeavyMetal]

Yondering:
Isn't that strange! I've had more trouble with berratta M9's than I've had with the 3 star's I've owned!

The current Firestar is in the mid 2000 round range right now and I see no excess wear.

Strangely I think way to many guys break thier gun "dry" firing! Back in the day, when I ran a lot of IPSC matches, it was put forth that dry firing was as good as live fire and that you needed this type of "practise" every night!

I lost three firing pin springs and two firing pins on a good Colt 1911 before I gave up the Dry Fire syndrome. I've never had another issue with a firing pin because I refuse to drop the hammer on an empty chamber ever again!

There's something to think about guys!

[spurrit]

We could argue the issue about caliber size, but like everything else in life it depends on how you use it in a given situation.

Ideally we all wish that when we left the house we could see what is going to happen to us that day. We could see that 300 lb drug addict attack us later so we could plan accordingly.
But it doesn't work that way.

I personally just don't plan on running up to an attacker for the chance to stick a popgun in his ear, and choose to use a caliber that, due to the laws of physics, has a far greater chance of stopping him.


Yondering:
Isn't that strange! I've had more trouble with berratta M9's than I've had with the 3 star's I've owned!

The current Firestar is in the mid 2000 round range right now and I see no excess wear.

Strangely I think way to many guys break thier gun "dry" firing! Back in the day, when I ran a lot of IPSC matches, it was put forth that dry firing was as good as live fire and that you needed this type of "practise" every night!

I lost three firing pin springs and two firing pins on a good Colt 1911 before I gave up the Dry Fire syndrome. I've never had another issue with a firing pin because I refuse to drop the hammer on an empty chamber ever again!

There's something to think about guys!

I guess you were just too cheap to buy snap caps, huh?

You're the only person I've ever heard complain about the Firestars. They are regarded far and wide as a bargain and a good, solid gun.

[HATCH]

Spurrit, you make some good points.
Something is better then nothing...

[yondering]

The current Firestar is in the mid 2000 round range right now and I see no excess wear.



Mine had quite a bit more than 2000 rounds through it, but I don't know how much exactly. Mine also showed no signs of excess wear, it was all pretty tight, but I think the firing pin was a little bit brittle. It didn't show any signs of wear or peening, but snapped off right where the head steps down for the spring. No dry firing on that gun either, because I had heard it was a bad idea.
I will say that I liked the design, and size of the gun, and it shot OK. It was just too hard to find parts for, and I couldn't trust the firing pin after that.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Having been involved in shooting incidents, during my NYPD career, I'd like to give my opinion. Required to carry both on and off duty, I've carried in just about every place from ankle to crotch holsters(Colt Det. Spl.), and if you cant wear a jacket, or an outside shirt, full size, and most "pocket pistols", just aren't going to be regularly carried. In answer to Elmer Kieth's remark, I've got one of my own. Better a .32 in the pocket, than a .45 under the car seat.(Unless you're in the car.) I've got three vehicles, two trucks and a car, and each has a 1911 style pistol under the seat. A Colt Delta Elite 10MM, A Federal Ordnance .45 race gun, and a Ballester-Molina .45. All, along with spare mags in the door wells. BUT, I ALWAYS carry my Seecamp .32 in my pocket.
When trouble comes, you'll most likely have one hand occupied warding off a weapon, and your carry gun must be available with one hand, so cocked and locked, or DAO, is the only way to go. I have a .25 Colt Junior which many years ago, saved my life, when someone snatched my service revolver out of it's holster. Luckily, I was able to grab the cylinder, so he couldn't fire the uncocked weapon.(A lot easier than trying to push the slide back to take an auto out of battery). Just my two cents worth.
Morgan

[9.3X62AL]

One of my summer carry pistols is a Walther PP with Speer Lawman 60 grain HPs on board. These clock just under 900 FPS. No, it's not an ideal carry gun or caliber--but I have no illusions about its power, and all rounds will go in through eye sockets until the situation stabilizes. Of course, the same targeting regimen occurs with all handguns--simplicity being my watchword.

[Lloyd Smale]

well said morgan. I guess if i used the reasoning some use i should stay home with anything less then one of my 500 linebaughs as even a 45 will not guarantee a 1 shot stop. I wouldnt even bet on the 500 linebaugh to stop a 100percent of the time. Personaly im not a leo and am not going to drag around one of my 1911s every where i go on the very slim chance that i will get attacked in the UP of michigan. Now a small .25 32 or 380 or even an alloy j frame smith is no harder to carry then your wallet. I can see the reasoning for a leo or even an ex leo to be alot more conserned about what they carry as there more likely to run into a situation where someone attacks them. But the average civilian can run from about any encounter (and dammed well better if he can) and i would have to bet that not a one of the guys that preaches that they need a big bore ccw gun have ever even came close to needing any kind of firearm to defend themselves. Im a NRA ccw instructor and what ive seem in most cases is people buy a 40 or 45, get there permit and find after a week that big gun is to much of a bother to carry so they carry nothing. they would have been much better served by a little 22 that they could stick in there pocket and forget.
Having been involved in shooting incidents, during my NYPD career, I'd like to give my opinion. Required to carry both on and off duty, I've carried in just about every place from ankle to crotch holsters(Colt Det. Spl.), and if you cant wear a jacket, or an outside shirt, full size, and most "pocket pistols", just aren't going to be regularly carried. In answer to Elmer Kieth's remark, I've got one of my own. Better a .32 in the pocket, than a .45 under the car seat.(Unless you're in the car.) I've got three vehicles, two trucks and a car, and each has a 1911 style pistol under the seat. A Colt Delta Elite 10MM, A Federal Ordnance .45 race gun, and a Ballester-Molina .45. All, along with spare mags in the door wells. BUT, I ALWAYS carry my Seecamp .32 in my pocket.
When trouble comes, you'll most likely have one hand occupied warding off a weapon, and your carry gun must be available with one hand, so cocked and locked, or DAO, is the only way to go. I have a .25 Colt Junior which many years ago, saved my life, when someone snatched my service revolver out of it's holster. Luckily, I was able to grab the cylinder, so he couldn't fire the uncocked weapon.(A lot easier than trying to push the slide back to take an auto out of battery). Just my two cents worth.
Morgan

[Bret4207]

On Star and Astra guns- I've heard a lot of tales that are nothing like my experience. I have an Astra Constable 380 and a Star PD 45. The Astra is wonderfully accurate! I mean it's just way more accurate than it should be, right up with my M-19 Smith. The Star PD is as accurate as most off the shelf 45's. I don't dry fire it at all. While I can make a firing pin, in fact may well make up several dozen and sell them one day, I see no point in it. With a buffer and standard loads it will last me for all the shooting I do. As with my Charter BD it's a carry often, shoot little gun.

I've heard all sorts of horror stories that have been repeated to ridiculous proportions through the years about foreign made guns, especially the Spanish guns. While I'm sure some are true, most are the result of abuse no doubt just as most of the American made guns I've seen broken or scarred up are from the same thing. There were garbage guns made yes, but the Stars and Astra rank far above the RG's, Rohms and other European off brands.

[thebigmac]

It's not what you carry, but are you ready to use it.. HAVE YOU PRACTICED ?? You need to do it.
Man sized target at seven (7) yards. That's 21, yes 21 feet. That's a very large room in your
house. That is also a long distance for a bad guy to announce his intentions. Use target ammo
for practice, then change to the ammo you will be carrying, and try them on the same target.
Most of the time the showing of a handgun will do the job, but you never know. It's the facial
expression that will tell him what to do next..... X-COP

[Old Ironsights]

The Astra Constable is a really nice Walther clone for the price.

I carried a Firestar .40 for a good while. Great gun. Only thing I didn't like was the Mag Well "safety"... I ordered a spare then broke out the original.

My deep cover piece is the NAA Guardian in .32ACP (+P)

I can carry it in bicycle shorts or swimtrunks.... and I do.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0333.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/IMG_0332.jpg

[Echo]

According to my CCW instructor, a .380 is rated as One Shot and Down - the smallest to be so rated, but it IS a surprise. I will get one one of these days...

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Nice copy of the Seecamp. :drinks:
I use the same type of pocket holster. Don't know if yours does, but I a cut a hole in the trigger guard area of the outside heavy leather, that allows me to draw the weapon with my trigger finger, leaving the holster in my pocket. Got a lot of static about it on this board. They said it looked too much like the ATF-disapproved wallet holster(completely conceals the gun in a "wallet", and you can shoot without drawing). I disagree, and still carry it.
Morgan

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/seecamp1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/seecamp2.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa159/pgfaini/seecamp3.jpg

[HATCH]

Nice setup
The only problem you might ever have is if you do shoot someone and you shot it with the pistol in the holster still since That would classify it as a AOW.
But it sounds like you already had that discussion.

I might get a holster like yours for my Ruger LCP

[Lloyd Smale]

morgan i would care much how anyone classified it if it saved my life but i would have to worry about a set up like that as you basicaly turned it into a single shot and my idea of using a small gun revolves around once i start shooting im not stopping till the gun is empty.

[mike in co]

i like 9mak as an alternative to 380 and 32. slightly larger bullet dia and higher operating pressure. no where near a nine, but more than a 380. hornady does market xtp's for it 95 gr and sierra has a exposed lead 100 gr.

mike in co

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Hatch, I disagree. In order for it to be classified as an AOW, the gun would have to be fired while disguised as another object. Looking at the gun in its holster, there's no doubt as to what it is.
This is a non-issue, since the gun pops right out of the holster,(The holster falls off), when lifted by the trigger. If one tried to fire it without drawing(difficult), they would get one shot off and the gun would jam.
Morgan

[Old Ironsights]

... Got a lot of static about it on this board. They said it looked too much like the ATF-disapproved wallet holster(completely conceals the gun in a "wallet", and you can shoot without drawing). I disagree, and still carry it.
Morgan

I'm one of the ones who gave you static... ;) and still think you are taking a tremendous risk. All it takes is one BATFE/LEO to decide differently than you and you will have to prove it to a Jury of Non Gun Idiots... and likely end up with a Federal Felony. [smilie=1:

But, your choice. :-?

The Hedly Holster I showed is designed to be retained in the pocket when the gun is drawn without having access to the trigger or even giving the slightest doubt that it can or cannot be firable (even once) while in the holster (a "wallet gun" AOW).

[spurrit]

According to my CCW instructor, a .380 is rated as One Shot and Down - the smallest to be so rated, but it IS a surprise. I will get one one of these days...

Your instructor must have had a case of .380's for sale. I've never seen a study or list of stats that showed a significant amount of one shot stops from a .380.

When I shoot at indoor ranges, I take a bunch of guns and way more ammo than I intend to shoot, myself. The extra is for folks that see my guns and want to try them out. Most folks either "always wanted" a Sig Sauer or a "Cowboy" gun, so I'm happy to give them a short training/familiarisation session, then turn them loose. They're generally all too happy to allow me to shoot whatever they have, so I get to try out a whole bunch of different guns I otherwise never would get to play with.
One thing I've noticed with the .32's and .380's is that most of them have a really sharp, vicious recoil. I suppose it's because they're made to fit lady's hand, not a big old Okie horseshoer's.
Similar sized guns chambered for a larger caliber, even a 9mm, generally have a little bit more "meat" to them, and the recoil feels more like a "push" than getting swatted in the web of the hand with the skinny end of a fishing pole, like the minor calibers do.
Personally, if I were to buy myself a micro compact sized gun, 9mm would be the smallest caliber I'd use. (or .38, if it wre an option)
Are any of you aware of a micro compact type gun offered in .40?

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Ironsights, I appreciate your concern. I learned many years ago, in the police academy, that ALL elements of a crime must be present for the crime to have been committed. On my job, after a collar, we wrote up our own sworn affidavits (complaint forms), which we submitted to the ADA in their office in court, so we had to enumerate the elements.
I agree with you about anti-gun juries, and to a lesser extent over zealous ATF agents or LEO's, Only one of the three elements necessary for the holster to make the gun an AOW is present: Being able to be fired without removing from the holster. I'd say at least half of my conventional holsters(The semi-auto ones with exposed triggers), also allow the gun to be fired without removing.

Morgan

[bobk]

When talking defensive pistols, I always subscribed to the idea that you were putting up with a small discomfort to prevent a much larger one. I am only 5'9", so my choice was a Commander or Combat Commander, most often the latter. This was mainly because it was nickled. I can rot the blue off a gun in one summer's day. I most often carried the gun with the left side grip panel and screw thingies removed, and a Brown & Farr belt clip underneath a right side Hogue nylon grip (hate rubber, it drags on chothes). I wore my shirt out, and shifted my belt buckle over one. The gun was well concealed by my "natural holster".

In colder weather I favored a revolver carried in the left hand coat pocket. I am right handed, but so are most assailants , so if they come at you from behind they will be throwing their right arm over your right shoulder. This allows you to pivot the gun 180 with your left hand and shoot them waist level, or farther south. In .38 I liked the old 158 +P, in .357 anybody's 125 HP. In .45s, any HP that would feed and shoot to the sights.

Based upon my experience with the .400 Corbon, I could be happy with a .40 S&W with 155 XTPs. What I don't care for are squre, blocky guns like the Glock for casual carry. They feel like carrying a 2X4. Gimme something a little rounded.

But first things first: terminal effect is primary, comfort is secondary. And if you know, really know you're going to be shot at, take a shotgun, or hide underneath the bed. This last is my favorite. And, no, I never had to use any of this knowledge, but I did spend many hours refining these carry methods.
Bob K

[chickenstripe]

spurrit,
Kahr Arms make the PM and MK series automatics that come in .40

I own two of the compacts in 9mm and .40, and have fired the micro's. Recoil was controllable for such a small gun.... and the reliability of my compacts is 100%.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_40sw.html

[Catshooter]

My new Kahr Arms PM 45 is virtually the same size as a Walther PPK/S. Weighs less and is a six shot .45. I was shocked by it's size/weight. It does kick, but not badly.

Us old guys need to remember that technology is marching on and not all of the plastic pistols are blocky.


Cat

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to Mike in CO's mention of the Makarov pistol in 9 x 18 Mak. I think of it as a "Walther PP on Steroids". It is just slightly bigger than the PP in all directions, and my East German example is utterly and totally reliable with both castings and HP ammunition. It is probably at the limit of the operational envelope for blowback functioning, but the critter flat WORKS. 95 grains at almost 1100 F/S beats 60 grains @ 900 pretty soundly.

[Old Ironsights]

+1 to Mike in CO's mention of the Makarov pistol in 9 x 18 Mak. I think of it as a "Walther PP on Steroids". It is just slightly bigger than the PP in all directions, and my East German example is utterly and totally reliable with both castings and HP ammunition. It is probably at the limit of the operational envelope for blowback functioning, but the critter flat WORKS. 95 grains at almost 1100 F/S beats 60 grains @ 900 pretty soundly.

True... but my little 60gr .32 Fiocchi HPs still fare at about 1100 from my tiny NAA Guardian... :twisted:

Certainly not my "go to" CCW, but itis most certainly my "gotta carry somthing in the swim trunks at the beach" gun. :mrgreen:

[Morgan Astorbilt]

The East German Mak is also finished much better than the East European versions. The one I bought for my wife has a finish that rivals the best of the Walthers. I also didn't have to polish the feed ramp as I've done when still in business, on several Walthers, most of them US made. The ramps were so rough, that if you released the slide slowly, it would grab a full patch bullet like a brake, and the slide would lock open.
Morgan

[9.3X62AL]

I gotta find some of those Fiocchi 32 ACP loads--that's some cartuches calientes!

Morgan, the Walther PP/PPK series makes a much better 32 ACP than 380 ACP platform, I believe. The Mak beats both.

[Old Ironsights]

Here's the newest .32 ACP Guardian balistic tables for most standard OEMs.

http://naaminis.com/vel32new.html

The Fiocchi SJHP is the second to the last table - but it is mislabled under Magtech which doesn't sell a 60 SJHP.

According to this new batch of testing, the current Fiocchi is a little milder than the NOS I have most of a case of. Mine chrony'd in the 1000-1050 range on a cool day.

[Bret4207]

I just saw a Mak for around $159.99 with all the goodies. With Al's glowing endorsement I might go back and take a 2nd look.

In the same line, does anyone have anything good or bad to say about the 32 ACP CZ surplus pistols? The model 27 maybe?

[Ghugly]

My EG Mak has digested everything from 115gr Silver Bear HP's to Lee cast RN with never a failure to do anything...........ever. It is, without question, the easiest, most undemanding, semi-auto to load for that I've ever seen. It's only possible equal, that I've loaded for, is my son's .380 Mak. Of course the .380 has only seen 4 different kinds of store bought ammo and 3 or 4 thousand rounds of handloads, but so far, so good.


If you can get a Mak for $160 that is in reasonable condition, buy it. A real Mak, of course, not a Hungarian or Polish almost a Makarov. I don't have anything special against those pistols. But, they are not the Makarov's equal in durability or reliability.

[anachronism]

Pocket holster info http://www.naaminis.com/faqgeneral.html

I had a Mak, I sold it unfired when I learned how hard it is to find suitable defensive ammo for one. I had a couple of boxes of Brown Bear, but never tried them after discovering the bullets were steel jacketed.

[Ghugly]

Pocket holster info http://www.naaminis.com/faqgeneral.html

I had a Mak, I sold it unfired when I learned how hard it is to find suitable defensive ammo for one. I had a couple of boxes of Brown Bear, but never tried them after discovering the bullets were steel jacketed.

In my opinion (for whatever that's worth) you had 2 boxes of good defensive ammo. That is what the Mak was designed to shoot and, with it's limited energy, I think ball ammo is the best bet. I don't think going to hp's or any other bullet designed to expand is a great idea unless you think you have more penetration than you need and can afford to waste a bit to make a bigger hole. That said, a person needs to carry what they have confidence in.

[spurrit]

spurrit,
Kahr Arms make the PM and MK series automatics that come in .40

I own two of the compacts in 9mm and .40, and have fired the micro's. Recoil was controllable for such a small gun.... and the reliability of my compacts is 100%.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_40sw.html

Forgot to mention; I wouldn't be caught carrying a stiker fired keychain. Especially a plastic one. Guns ar supposed to be made of steel. Especially a pocket gun. Even my derringer is a good weapon, once it's empty. A big, pissed off okie with an empty one in his fist can pulp your head in short order.

[Old Ironsights]

Forgot to mention; I wouldn't be caught carrying a stiker fired keychain. Especially a plastic one. Guns ar supposed to be made of steel. Especially a pocket gun. Even my derringer is a good weapon, once it's empty. A big, pissed off okie with an empty one in his fist can pulp your head in short order.

That's yet another reason I line the NAA. It's all stainless and hammer-fired DAO.

I used to have an AMT Backup .45 DAO. I really wish I had kept it. THAT was a belly gun...

[Lloyd Smale]

i dont know how small your looking for by springfled is making the emp in .40 now. Personaly if im going to step up from a 380 and want more power i wouldnt fool with a 9mm and id would step up to at least a compact .40 or .45. I cant see where a officers framed 1911 with a 3 inch barrel is harder to conseal then about any 9mm
Your instructor must have had a case of .380's for sale. I've never seen a study or list of stats that showed a significant amount of one shot stops from a .380.

When I shoot at indoor ranges, I take a bunch of guns and way more ammo than I intend to shoot, myself. The extra is for folks that see my guns and want to try them out. Most folks either "always wanted" a Sig Sauer or a "Cowboy" gun, so I'm happy to give them a short training/familiarisation session, then turn them loose. They're generally all too happy to allow me to shoot whatever they have, so I get to try out a whole bunch of different guns I otherwise never would get to play with.
One thing I've noticed with the .32's and .380's is that most of them have a really sharp, vicious recoil. I suppose it's because they're made to fit lady's hand, not a big old Okie horseshoer's.
Similar sized guns chambered for a larger caliber, even a 9mm, generally have a little bit more "meat" to them, and the recoil feels more like a "push" than getting swatted in the web of the hand with the skinny end of a fishing pole, like the minor calibers do.
Personally, if I were to buy myself a micro compact sized gun, 9mm would be the smallest caliber I'd use. (or .38, if it wre an option)
Are any of you aware of a micro compact type gun offered in .40?

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Ironsides, my son has an NAA, and it's almost an exact copy of my Seecamp, maybe a tad thicker. They're both excellent guns for the reasons stated. I used to carry, off duty, a 2" S&W Mod. 10 that I bobbed the spur off the hammer, and removed the front of the trigger guard bow to just in front of the trigger. Used to carry it in the front pocket of my Levi's without a holster. Came out fast, but was also fast to wear a hole in the pocket. Let another cop talk me out of it, when I was scrounging money to buy our first house. Now, it seems NYPD requires all revolvers to be DAO, or have their hammers bobbed. I did one years ago, for my partner's son, who was going on the job, and wanted to use his dads Det. Spl.
That's New York City for you, so worried about law suites, that when they switched to Glocks, they required a special heavier trigger spring.
Sorry, I seem to be rambling.:)
Morgan

[spurrit]

FWIW,

In the summer, I just drop a full sized Sig 220 in the bottom pocket of my cargo shorts. Most folks wouldn't even notice it, other than there's obviously(if you're REALLY looking) something heavy in my pocket. The big, flat pocket seems to be just the right size, as there's no telltale bulge, or anything.

[MtGun44]

In dress pants, my KelTech P3AT in a pocket holster is really
nice.

Bill

[hangfire]

I have carried a North American Arms Guardian 380 for nearly 2 years now. It is a great pocket pistol.

[jim4065]

Didn't Bernard Goetz use a 32 ACP?

[MT Gianni]

Didn't Bernard Goetz use a 32 ACP?

Charter Arms 44 Spl rn f246 gr factory AIRC.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

Charter Arms 44 Spl rn f246 gr factory AIRC.

Correct, It was a Charter Arms "Bulldog". I was still on the force when he was cought. Wish I'd made the collar, I would have retired a Det. 1st. grd. :mrgreen::mrgreen:
Morgan

[Single Shot]

After all this discussion I have to ask:

What do you guys think of the 32 H&R mag? This is what my sister carries.

She was told by the dealer that the stopping power is similar to a 38 special based on ballistic stats of energy.

[Bret4207]

Correct, It was a Charter Arms "Bulldog". I was still on the force when he was cought. Wish I'd made the collar, I would have retired a Det. 1st. grd. :mrgreen::mrgreen:
Morgan

I thought it was Son of Sam that used the BD. IIRC Goetz used a 38 or 9mm as the Subway Vigilante?

[jim4065]

Hmmm - my memory is atrocious. OK - 38 Special. Was he "caught" or did he turn himself in?

[Harry]

Hey all,

Thanks for all of these replys. I have gleened alot of info and options from this thread. I am considering various carries. Considering the age of my Savage 32 and the fact that I had a one-time jam while at the range, I'll keep it for sentimental reasons, and occasional range shooting.
Thanks for all the responses.

Harry

[MT Gianni]

I thought it was Son of Sam that used the BD. IIRC Goetz used a 38 or 9mm as the Subway Vigilante?

Bret, in my reading I recall the Son of Sam used one because it worked for Bernie Goetz. The world is full of sick humans.

[Single Shot]

He used a 38 special, a five-shot, alloy J-frame Smith and Wesson "Airweight" revolver.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz

[Geraldo]

Bret, in my reading I recall the Son of Sam used one because it worked for Bernie Goetz.

Berkowitz killed his victims in 1976-77, while the Goetz shooting was in late 1984. Berkowitz used a Charter Arms .44 and Goetz a .38 S&W Airweight.

[Single Shot]

OK, let's get the tread back on topic.

It all started with a question about a 32 as a carry gun.

Now I have to add a question about the 32 H&R magnum.



After all this discussion I have to ask:

What do you guys think of the 32 H&R mag? This is what my sister carries.

She was told by the dealer that the stopping power is similar to a 38 special based on ballistic stats of energy.
__________________

[Bret4207]

Given a decent boolit/bullet design the 32 Mag should perform about like a 38/9mm. Maybe not as well as the +P+ stuff, but the energy is there. IMO the issue comes from transfering that energy onto the target, ie- .312-.314 vs. .356-.359 and 85-120 gr vs. 110-200 gr. Get the energy into the target while getting enough penetration to reach the important parts....that gets trickier as the caliber decreases.

Personally I'd have no qualms about carrying a good 32 Mag.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

I thought it was Son of Sam that used the BD. IIRC Goetz used a 38 or 9mm as the Subway Vigilante?

You're right, I must have been having a brain fart. When Charter Arms was mentioned, I immediately thought of Berkowitz. ("Son of Sam"). I retired right after he was caught. The Goetz incident happened a few years later, and he used a semi-auto, but I don't remember the make. I know it was on a subway train.

If memory serves me, he would have been OK, if would have kept his mouth shut. All his talk embarrassed the police and DA, who were trying to give him a break.
Morgan

[9.3X62AL]

If that 32 Magnum carried by your Sis is a Ruger SP-101, it's a very fine defensive sidearm. The caliber might be a little marginal, but it will do the job. Toward the end of my career, a dope dealer got processed for retirement at age 29 via the good offices of the 32 Magnum. (Moral of the story--venture capital in the back-alley commodities trades should NOT be diverted for personal use. Such faux pas are taken seriously and personally in that community.)

But I digress. With a couple of these bullets installed in the 10-ring, our trader went hors de combat quite decisively, per an onlooker at the event. Our trader attended the event unarmed, another faux pas in that line of work and which reflected poorly upon the shooter's legal position with the District Attorney's Office. One interesting little fact from the crime scene--when I rolled the body over after the Coroner arrived, a Hornady XTP bullet fell out of him after having transited through-and-through. Other than rifling impressions, the bullet looked like it could be reloaded. I'm not sure if that's a testament to the round's penetration potential, or a knock on the XTP's expansion ability--but there it is there.

A "two-fer", as homicide cops call such incidents--one in the ground, the other in the joint.

[Bret4207]

"One interesting little fact from the crime scene--when I rolled the body over after the Coroner arrived, a Hornady XTP bullet fell out of him after having transited through-and-through. Other than rifling impressions, the bullet looked like it could be reloaded. I'm not sure if that's a testament to the round's penetration potential, or a knock on the XTP's expansion ability--but there it is there."

Therein lays the issue with jacketed peestol and revolter bullets-expansion vs. penetration. Hence, my preference for a boolit of the flat nosed design or a SWC given enough ooomph to push it into the juicy parts. Hopefully I'll never have to prove my theory out.

[mauser1959]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v456/1minuteman1/stoppingpower.gif


Here is a listing of stopping power from Chuck Hawks site. I believe that the data is probably accurate , and there are more calibers listed as well. I really was intrigued on some of the writing that he has produced on conceal carry guns and stopping power.


http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm

[spurrit]

Why's it stop at .41?

[mauser1959]

Because I could not capture enough of the screen to show it all. He has more calibers listed on the page given.

[spurrit]

Ah. That makes sense.

[9.3X62AL]

One note I should add to the subject of 32 Magnum.........the cartridge as loaded by Federal is GREATLY underloaded due to some of the original H&R revolvers that chambered it. If you have a Ruger SP-101 or (perhaps) a S&W Model 16-4, the round's full potential can be exploited--which is 1400 FPS+ using 100 grain-class boolits/bullets. A member here (Big Slick) has explored this subject at some length in an SP-101, and reports only good results to date. I won't get into the sticky issue of handloads for defensive purposes, that's gunrag filler AFAIC. I don't do it personally, but that's my choice and no more or less valid than anyone else's choice in this field.

[NickSS]

I personally like to carry either a 45 Auto or sometimes a 9mm Auto if my dress will permit hiding them. However, when I need small like for summer time I have looked high and low for a good weapon including various 38 snub nose revolvers and small autos. I finally settled on a Beretta Tom Cat in 32 Auto. It holds 7 and 1 and functions with 100 % reliability with Gold dot ammo. I have yet to shoot a man with it and hope I never do but I have shot several animals including Racoon and Coyote with it and it did the trick on them. By the way the gold dots opened up when they went in. It may not be a cannon but it is small and easy to concel

[9.3X62AL]

Nick--

That's good to hear about the 32 ACP Gold Dots expanding in animated media. I carry those in a Walther PP x 32, and they DO IN jackrabbits decisively, but I've never been able to recover one. They've all gone through-and-through, and let's just say they did NOT exit with gentle departure characteristics. Pretty impressive work for a pocket blowback, I thought.

[spurrit]

What kinda velocity are you getting on those .32 acp's?

[9.3X62AL]

The Speer factory-loaded Gold Dots run about 925 FPS out of the PP's barrel.

[exile]

Good to hear about the .32 ACP Gold Dots. I have a NAA 32 myself and load it with those. The only thing I have shot with it are 1/2 gallon milk jugs filled with water. They explode nicely and the top shoots six feet in the air. Maybe all that proves is how bored I am, I don't know. I have considered trading in the NAA on a Ruger SP-101 in .327 Federal just because I can't find my cases and if I can't easily reload for a gun I don't shoot it much.

Exile

[LIMPINGJ]

I managed to find me a nice Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless the other day and since the wife likes her Beretta Tomcat I decided to compare some of the HP ammo I had bought. I used the latest in CSI methods. Ballistic medium was Southwest Dairy 1gal Milk jugs with well water for filling.
The two rounds tested were the WW Silver Tip and Cor Bon 60grHP. First up was the WW Load, at 5 ft range the Silver Tip penetrated to and dented the back side of the third jug. The recovered bullet looked like a 32 wc bullet, the nose collapsed into the cavity with no expansion. The Cor Bon load exploded the fires jug with the remains of the bullet found in the second. Three small fragments were found in the first jug with the seperated jacket ( flatened into a disk) and the remainder of the core (a flat disc of lead) found in the second jug.

[Old Ironsights]

NAA Guardian .32ACP comparative ballistic test data:

http://naaminis.com/vel32new.html

[spurrit]

Good to hear about the .32 ACP Gold Dots. I have a NAA 32 myself and load it with those. The only thing I have shot with it are 1/2 gallon milk jugs filled with water. They explode nicely and the top shoots six feet in the air. Maybe all that proves is how bored I am, I don't know. I have considered trading in the NAA on a Ruger SP-101 in .327 Federal just because I can't find my cases and if I can't easily reload for a gun I don't shoot it much.

Exile


Hang a tarp up on your right side, with some of it laying on the ground. It'll catch and retain most of the brass.

[exile]

Good idea. I tried to trade in the NAA .32 on the SP-101, but ended up paying cash so I still have the NAA.

Exile

[Jim Macklin]

The Savage was considered a very reliable pistol in it's day. If it feeds reliably I'd have no qualms about carrying it. Fiocchi makes some fairly good (warm) ammo. I think there are +P American loads available but I'm not sold on expanding bullets in the smaller lower powered calibers.

+P ammo is not recommended for those 100 year old guns made from weaker metal. HP bullets probably won't feed reliably. But HP are very much better for stopping power.

It is better than no gun, but isn't worth spending a lot of money on to make it reliable with ammo which must be loaded to 1920 pressure levels.

The new mouse guns in 32 and 380 and 9 mm will take +P, get one when you can.

[Crash_Corrigan]

I have one in Stainless and I had the hammer spur ground off. Loaded with 85 Gr Glaser Safety Slugs (Silver) I get the ballistics I need and the concealabiliy I require.

The ballistics on this round are amazing. Over 1500 FPS and the recoil is not more than a standard 158 Gr LSWC. The first 3 rounds are glasers and the last 2 are LSWC 158 +P.

This revolter with Barami Hip Grips can be concealed under a tee shirt and weighs next to nothing yet has the power to deliver when needed. With the hammer spur ground off it will not hang up in a pocket nor from a shirt when presented.

It is utterly reliable and needs very little maintenance. A drop of oil here and there on a monthly basis and a steady diet of LSWC boolits and it is happy.

It is not designed for +P rounds but since I have never fired one in the silly thing I am not going to worry about it if I have to fire those last two rounds.

I never feel undergunned while carrying this weapon and it is still in my pocket when I am packing my Browning HP or Taurus 1911 as a backup.

I also carried a S & W Model 10-5 4"bbl wheelgun for my twenty years on the NYCPD and I also had to use their lousy 158 LSWC boolit. I cheated and using their brass and boolit I reloaded them with 6 gr of Unique for a little more jolt.

The only time I shot someone not instantly dead was when I hit a barricaded suspect in the left knee from a rooftop. The boolit expanded very well and they had to amputate his leg at the knee as the round totally destroyed all his bones and joint. He went back into the joint in a wheelchair and will spend the rest of his life there. I love that Unique with a soft lead boolit.

[9.3X62AL]

Crash--

How unsporting of you, to use effective ammunition like that. Don't you know that deputy public defenders have college loans to pay off? You shouldn't bust their rice bowls like that.

I too have no objection to high-velocity 38 Special ammunition. Back in the day, our 38 duty loads weren't the ACLU-approved stuff that NYCPD was obliged to use--we had 110 or 125 grain JHP +P. It wasn't finely accurate, but tore things up good when and where it connected. Velocity is good, expansion is good, penetration is good--what's not to like?

[Suo Gan]

I have not read all the posts, and maybe after five pages of posts, this won't get read either.
But my two cents are use the 32acp with ball ammo for the time being. It will penetrate about 10" if you don't get further away than 20 feet, but the planets probably have to be aligned just right. This round should cycle very reliably in your gun though.
I have a 32acp Berretta and keep it in my tackle box while fishing, and one time I had to shoot a big feral dog along a river bank, it took three shots and ran off. After that I don't have much confidence in the gun.

That being said, save up for something a little larger.

[Scrounger]

Minimum I would consider is the 9MM Makarov round. It falls between the .380 and the 9MM Luger. I have two Polish P-64s which is a sort of scaled down Makarov, single or double action. One is on my CCW list, the other is for sale if you're interested, $150 plus shipping.

[Down South]

I've tried several carry pistols/revolvers. I have a few .40 S&W's and a couple 9mm S&W's. The compact .40's do well in the cooler weather when they are easy to conceal but my main carry piece is a S&W 642 W/CT Laser Grips. I carry it in my front pants pocket in a Mica pocket holster. It boils down to comfort from what I've found. If you can't be comfortable with what you are carrying then the piece won't always be with you.

[LqChrome]

Back to the original question.Hornady Custom puts out 60gr.JHP/XTPlRan them through aCZmodel 27 wiyh no fail to feed. I also keep my 380 AMT Backup mag stooked with them,but there's a Federal Premium Hydra-shok hp in the bbl. I have had fail to feeds with the Feds.I too am a wheel gun man, Ruger 357 SP101 with 2-1/4 bbl, but my clothing and job AC/heating tech wont allow a larger gun

[Harry]

OK, this is long after the original post. I have since purchased a Springfield XD subcompact 40 cal. I will keep this 32 for posterity. Thanks for the many posts, opinions and guidance.

[Hickory]

5 and a half years since the last post, WOW.
Must take a long time to make up your mind.

[bob208]

a lot of people talk down the .32. but none of them want to get shot with one.

[yondering]

a lot of people talk down the .32. but none of them want to get shot with one.

Nobody wants to get stabbed with a fork either, but that doesn't make it a good defensive weapon.

[leftiye]

If you give it to the bad guy, then you won't piff him off by shooting it at him and maybe hurting him. I've had that experience with an issue .38.

[cwheel]

Don't buy a Kel-Tec PF9. In under 2500 rounds the frame broke, the slide cracked, broke assembly pins, bad mag catch, faulty mags, you get the idea. Went back to the factory 3 times for their free fix. Getting it to them with a FFL to get the free fix ended up ended up costing more than $100 for the 3 trips. Only fired standard pressure 9mm SD ammo in that one, just to marginal of a design. Their little 380 I've had for almost 10 years now with many thousands of rounds through, never a problem, great little pocket pistol that you would always be able to carry. Not bad mouthing Kel-Tec, just that model.
Chris

[Harry]

5 and a half years since the last post, WOW.
Must take a long time to make up your mind.
I didn't just buy the 40. Just revisited the post, just like now after several months since last post. I just like to see if any comments have been made since my last visit. Call me...whatever.

[MtGun44]

cwheel -

No need to use an FFL to send the gun back to maker for repairs, and they can send
it back to you directly. If you were using an FFL, you were just wasting money.

I have a PF9 and about 500-700 rds through it, just basically trainging with it. No
real problems, although for some reason it doesn't like my handloads - shows pressure
signs in the primers that no other guns do, but works just fine with factory ammo.

Bill

[LUCKYDAWG13]

Nobody wants to get stabbed with a fork either, but that doesn't make it a good defensive weapon.

+ 1 on that

[clum553946]

I carry a 32 Beretta Tomcat loaded with Winchester Silvertips when I'm out of town, dressed up & out to dinner or a show as it fits nicely into my front pocket. It's primarily for low risk applications. I have confidence that if I ever had to use it, it would get the job done, you just have to have really good bullet placement. I carry either a Glock 27 or 30 for all other applications!