What screen for mining berms

[Outer Rondacker]

Guy I kinda know just purchased a property that had the old public range on it. You know the place in the woods everyone would go shoot. Well he told me he is braking ground in a few months for a new house. I asked if I could mine the berm first. He said sure.

So my question to you guys is what size screens do you use? I am looking to make one and had thought 1/4 inch might be good.

Any input would be great. Pics even better. THanks

[Thumbcocker]

1/4" hardware cloth.

[mold maker]

1/4" hardware cloth on a frame of 2 X 4 fastened well has worked for me for several years. The weight involved is a factor in the frame size.

[Panman213]

I used a 1/4 inch hardware cloth stapled to a wooden frame with an air powered stapler. I made it 18'' x 24'' any bigger and I found it to be very heavy. I also put thin strips of plywood on the bottom to cover the staples. That way I could slide it back and fourth over 2 wooden sawhorses and let gravity do the work. My berm was sand so most of the dirt/sand fell thru and left me with nothing but bullets and the occasional small rock. I sifted at least 2 tons of lead that way. (Not all at once!)

Good luck

[Grmps]

This is my first try, works OK but hasn't seen hard use yet.
If I did it this way again I would use full-length 1x1 for the side notches

Next one I'll rip 1/2" off the bottom and forget the 3/4 x 3/4 notch

material 2x3, 1/4" hardware cloth, gorilla glue hand stapler (1/2 x 9/16 staples) pneumatic 1/4" finish stapler 1 1/4 & 2 staples.
Cut to length, glue/screw together (make sure to leave room for the cutout when screwing)
Set table saw @ 3/4 x 3/4 (use push stick be careful with the second cut, the 3/4 x 3/4 wants to fly.
Hand staple hardware cloth on
glue and finish staple 3/4 x 3/4 on.
https://i.imgur.com/l9ztZQ9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N90WTcl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Kh9GNjY.jpg

I'm planning on making a shaker table where 1 end of the screen/tray can lift out and dump onto a chute into a 2-gallon bucket (you won't want a bigger bucket unless your buff/macho/masochistic/or crazy :)

[Outer Rondacker]

I just got done looking in my stash. I only have 1/2 inch. Looks like a trip to the hardware store. Think I will look for a set of handles while I am shopping. Might make it a bit easier to sift.

[jdfoxinc]

I'm using 1/4" expanded metal fastened to the frame of an old card table. Shovel the dirt on top, move around with gloved hands or a 1x4 till all the dirt falls through. (I put a piece of plywood under it so I can shovel it up easier to put back). Then pick out the bullets.

[Rcmaveric]

Plenty of good ideas. I will just post a picture of mine. Dont forget handles for the screan. I uses the same screen i used to make my PC bake trays. It came on roll ams had lots.

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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180403/5298a715fe6a5429ffa5312d32a3a61d.jpg

[Outer Rondacker]

Thanks for all the post guys. I just got back from the hardware store with a small roll of 24"x10' 1/4. Think I am going to go 24"x24" based off the size of the roll. Good snowy day project.

[Plate plinker]

you might have problems with screen sag and it may get to heavy if your lucky.

[Outer Rondacker]

you might have problems with screen sag and it may get to heavy if your lucky.

Good point. Think I will keep it to 18"

[Rcmaveric]

Just dont fill it too much. You want it beable to swish around. Its good manual labor. I slept good after yesterday.

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[richhodg66]

I use a similar arrangement when I mine the berm at the range I go to. On that pistol range, I can fill a five gallong bucket up real fast. I do most of my shooting on my own place now, and when it comes time to mine it (years from now, not gonna do it until I need to), I'm going to get one of these and line the bed with 1/4" hardware cloth on top of the expanded steel mesh. Then I can just rock it back and forth by rolling it and not have to support any weight.

https://www.harborfreight.com/mesh-deck-steel-wagon-62576.html

[RogerDat]

Might want to check out these images of archaeology sifters. They have been doing this sifting thing for a long time so have worked out some basic design
https://www.google.com/search?q=archaeology+sifter&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB_rGKsZ_aAhXrhOAKHe_uCkwQ_AUICygC&biw=1920&bih=934#imgrc=sF_LjFWuosWNuM:&spf=1522802424216

You always have to start from a cold pot if you use water but a cement mixer and water hose can allow for bulk processing. Someone on the forum mentioned it before. But with water in the bullet fragments you can't ever dump them into molten lead without inviting the tinsel fairy. But if you fill an empty and cool pot then bring it up to temperature to melt the water will all be cooked out before you have molten lead.

[Rcmaveric]

The problem with a cold pot is it takes for ever to get going but once it starts melting, it goes quick. I keep a few inches of molten alloy in the bottom. Then put on a face sheild and heavy glove and slowly sprinkle in the next amount. Pour a few table spoons of oil and light it on fire. It will burn the water off and its not to deep to cause much harm with the proper PPE on. With in no time the dirt, rocks, and jackets are ready to skim. Keep it flaming helps get all the lead out of it. I am not a smart man and so use care and caution with that advice. But if you drain the pot and start empty each time its gonna take you a few days. Using the method i mentioned cautiously will allow you you run a few hundred pounds in a day. Just use some common sense. Takes water at the bottom of a bottom pour pot to cause the tensel visit, lol dont ask how i know, but it involved a lead ladel.

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[Grmps]

I like that tripod idea. 3 2x4's bolted near the top.
4 ropes/wires coming down attached to the sifter box and your good to go.
hang 2-gallon buckets on the 2x4's and carry the screen to the berm. On the return trip, a hand truck would be helpful.
You could have ropes attached to the legs so they can't splay out.

[lightman]

That archaeology link has lots of good ideas if you really get serious about mining berms. About smelting your finds, starting with a cold pot is good advise. But, it does not have to be cold. Just not molten. I'll leave several inches in the bottom of my pot and turn off the burner long enough for it to become solid but still hot. Then I'll fill it back up. The moisture should burn off long before the lead melts. A lid for your pot adds another level of protection. Time is important to everyone but, burns are serious!

[Tonto]

Yes, the archeologist designs work well, less fatigue and work quickly. I've seen the ones with wheels in a top frame and stand that go through the sifting like lightning. the only thing that slows you down are stones and leaf litter, twigs. That said, the plant materials all turn to smoke and ash in the smelting pot, probably help with a little fluxing action too. You might be overwhelmed with the volume too, a good problem to have if you are ready for it. Good exercise.....I'm jealous

[chieffan]

I screen 3/4" road stone through 1/2" hardware cloth for my garden railroad. I lay the screen, 2X3' tapered to 10" on one open end over a wheel borrow and add the rock slowly. Fines all fall through which I want for on top. The bigger stuff goes in another barrow for walk way around the property, etc. Wheel borrow supports the weight. Lot of different way to do it, just have to go with the one that works you you.

[Outer Rondacker]

I really need to buy a camera. I made one up. Ripped a 2x6 in half. Total size is 24 1/4" x 19". The extra 1/4 is so I do not get poked by the screen if it was sticking out. Drop some wood glue on and sunk in 4" wood screws. Grabbed the air stapler and shot it down. Then screwed on 7/16 plywood crossing over the joints. Now I am back at my shack looking for some handles in the junk bin. Think I will toss a coat of stain on it since it is raining out.

Its raining today. Sposta stop around 3pm. How wet is to wet to do this?

[Grmps]

Depends on the soil content in the berms and how much you like mud. Needs to be dry enough to sift easily.

[Outer Rondacker]

Dirt/rock. I think I will give it the night to dry out a bit. Loads of clay pigeon chunks. Joy. Anyone know if clay pigeon chunks float?

[RogerDat]

Rain washes away dirt and leaves the heavy stuff like rocks, clay pigeon chunks, and yes lead on top. So bad right after rain but shortly after you might find the "buried treasure" is closer to the surface.

[Grmps]

Dirt/rock. I think I will give it the night to dry out a bit. Loads of clay pigeon chunks. Joy. Anyone know if clay pigeon chunks float?

They will float on molten lead :) I find range scrap smelting easier if I start with a few inches of lead from the last range scrap smelting. A french fry basket is also handy for removeing casings.

I like to put a cove -w- weight when I smelt range lead in case I don't nip all the sealed bullets

[Rcmaveric]

Only problem i have had is lead trapped in the dirt. But i have colander handy to sift any extra dirt before adding to the pot.

Only down side to those big sifters is loosing the shot gun shot from the range scraps. That would some good elements to the chemistry of the alloy. I luck out and get a lot of castbullets from my berms. Theu host cow boy action shoots at my range.

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[mold maker]

I made my screen with transporting in mind. Everything fit on a hand truck so one trip in and a return was it. The hand truck carried 2-6gal buckets with 8 gal of lead, a shovel, trawel, screen w/legs, and water for thirst.
Carrying the 400+ LBS of lead and equipment wasn't worth the 200yd trip until I got the wheels.
Use a few bungee cords to secure everything.

[RogerDat]

Found this one outlined as a garden sifter but wheeled sifter running in a bumper track designed to ride on top of wheel barrow. Sounds like one someone mentioned before. https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/how-to-make-a-soil-sifter-ze0z1503zcwil

Goes with what mold maker was saying about having to transport the gear being a consideration. Wheel barrow allows transport and should make dumping dirt easier.

Don't forget the copper jackets have some scrap value after the lead is melted off. How much depends on what grade your scrap yard calls the copper. But they will pay something for it which should at least help offset the cost of propane or gas to go out and get them. Sort of wondered if one could make a forced air powered charcoal or wood furnace and melt the copper into ingots. Clean ingots would have the highest value. Thought about the same thing for the worn out brass and primers I take back. Get low dollar for them as bullets, high dollar if ingot form.

[Outer Rondacker]

Well I had a chance to give my screen a go. Two shovels per sift. Five sifts with a total of 10 heaping shovels gave me a full three gallon bucket. I think I will stick to one shovel per sift in the future. Not a bad way to spend the day since the power was out anyway. I also walked the grounds and picked up two big coffee cans full of shotgun slugs. Kept them to the side. For now I will be pulling the truck right up to the berm. I might have the chance to mine a berm that has been used for years. There is a catch. I will only have a few hours to do it before it is dozed down. I am tossing around the idea of making a vibrating table. Using a old law mower motor and out of balance wheel. I will have to search for such an item online. All and all I am happy with the small set up I made works well.

[Grmps]

might want to think about https://i.imgur.com/lbXQ0jy.png and get some help.

Streamline your operation. Make a plywood chute that you dump the basket into to fill a 2-3 gallon bucket. only weight is the shovels full and the bucket when you fight them into the truck. I know a lot of guys with they had your "problem" LOL

If you have limited time and that much lead, maybe some of the guys near you would help for a piece of the pie before it is gone forever :)

[Outer Rondacker]

Now that it is daylight and I had a chance to brush around the bullets in my bucket. It looks like I got a good shovels full of dirt or two. Should I toss this back into the screen set up and run the hose on it to wash out most of the dirt? It was still really wet when I mined this stuff. I do not plan on smelting it down for a good month or so.

When I do smelt I use a home made rocket mass stove. I use bricks this way it is stable and twigs from around the yard. This way the cost is free for melting the scrap and lead down. This is a link to what one is. https://youtu.be/kmDYUrVHPWc This is a simple one made from blocks. Very stable and if you make the stack one more block high it really gets ripping. I have made the other ones out of all the fancy stuff and for what I do the block one works fine.

[Rcmaveric]

How do the cinder blocks hold up to the heat?

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[Grmps]

i"d wait until the dirt dried then sift again.....my 2¢

[Plate plinker]

How do the cinder blocks hold up to the heat?

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Not well cinder blocks will deteriorate fairly fast, but they are fairly cheap.

I have also thought about smelting the copper and brass just for fun. Maybe make a charcoal smelting setup using a 20# lp cylinder and some refractory concrete.

[Rcmaveric]

I have contrmplated a setup to turn my nasty jackets into ingots. They look horrid the way i do it and is a pita to seperate them from the rocks. I just throw them out unless its rock free. I like the set up for smeling lead. That would save me money in the long run.

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[Outer Rondacker]

You can get fancy on the Rocket stove I just posted a simple one as most guys would use it four times a year. You can use Fire Brick to stack one as well. That stuff last a very long time but cost more money. Everyone has 3 to 5 blocks sitting around.

[GL49]

So now you have all these 5 gallon buckets of sifted bullets, right? In our berms it's mixed with rocks and pebbles and it's really hard to tell if they are .22 bullets, a dirty .223 bullet, etc.
I set up a sluice box when I had my irrigation pump turned on, and .....wow! You wouldn't believe how quickly you can sort out the wheat from the chaff in these buckets of screened material. I built it on sliders and hooked up a 100 rpm output gearbox/120V motor, installed a bellcrank, and a coffee can full of debris is cleaned in no time. I can sluice a 55 gallon barrel in about 4 hours, and come out with clean meltable lead and bullets. Then when you melt it, what's left are bullet jackets, which are then turned in to the local scrapper after a short trip through the cement mixer in a citric acid wash. Get a better price for it that way.
I can't say I save any time doing this, but the resulting gravel goes on the driveway, the smelting is MUCH cleaner, and I reclaim clean bullet jackets.
I guess it just depends on the lead you're starting with.

[Outer Rondacker]

I got one bucket so far. 1/3 is turning out to be rocks and dirt. I have it spreed in a large tote front of my fireplace drying out. As it drys out I pull out the bullets. This would take forever but since its my first bucket and we have three inches of snow on the ground this will work for now. It was also only a three gallon bucket.

Put it on the bathroom scale. Clean range scrap come in at 61 pounds. Should make around 35 pounds of ingots I am told. Not bad.

[Bareen]

For those of you wanting to smelt the copper jackets into ingots, look up a 'flower pot smelter' or 'backyard foundry'. There are a lot of instructions on how to make a simple smelter that gets hot enough to melt copper/brass. You can then use cast iron/steel molds for ingots.