.44 special

[NSP64]

anyone have a 5 shot 44 spl ? was thinking about getting one and wasn't sure who made one anymore.

[Dale53]

I, for a short time, had a Taurus Tracker in .44 magnum. I had no intention of using this light gun with full charge magnum ammo but rather picked it up with the intention of using Skeeter's .44 Special load (7.5 Unique with a 240-250 Keith bullet). Unfortunately, the short cylinder of the Tracker would not allow me to use Keith bullets (loaded round was too long), so I decided that I did not want to load a particular load just for this revolver (I have several other .44 Specials that just LOVE the Skeeter load). So, I sold it.

Smith has made some .44 Specials in the recent past but I don't believe that they are cataloging any now. Taurus still catalogs a .44 magnum Tracker in both blue and stainless. That short cylinder was a deal breaker for me.

However, I really like the Tracker stainless in .45 ACP. That one works WELL. A really good woods gun, for sure.

Dale53

[2 dogs]

I have a FA97 that is just the cats PJ's.....

[Scrounger]

Charter Arms Bulldog.

[HeavyMetal]

I have a 44 "Target" Bulldog bought new back in the 70's. Great little gun.

However it weighs about 19 Oz.! So a steady diet of 429421's was a little hard to handle.

Instead I bought a Lyman full wadcutter mold. Not sure of the number right off hand but it makes a neat 180 grain full wadcutter that doesn't beat me up when pushed to velocities that will get someones attention!

Still have it , won't sell it, suggest you start looking for one they are out there!

I have also seen the Taurus but never shot one. Given what Dale53 has said about the one he had I think the Lyman wadcutter would be a good bet for it as well.

[.38 Special]

Smith has made some .44 Specials in the recent past but I don't believe that they are cataloging any now.

They're still offering the Model 24, blue or nickel, square butt, 6" barrel. Both are 6 shot N-frames, however.

[mooman76]

I picked up a SS Rossi 44 special 5 shot at the gun show a couple years ago. Wasn't looking for one but couldn't pass up the price. $200 and if it wasn't new it was shot very little. Nice little gun too especially for the $$. Shot real good too or a 2" barrel.
I liked it so much I didn't hesitate last gun show I went to, to pick up another Rossi in 357. It was nickle plated which I'm not so crazy about but it had everything else I was looking for in a consealed carry. 6 shot too.
I haven't shot them allot but I have had no problems with them.

[94Doug]

I have a 696 Smith... I have only started to load with cast for it, but I have big plans!
I think my son has big plans for the revolver too. It's one of his favorites.


Doug

[Swagerman]

About the Taurus .44 special. It can digest 265 grain #429244 GC without much trouble or recoil. I'm still experimenting with that weight bullet using other powders as well.

This picture is my m-441 in .44 special. the target is 265 grain bullets I mentioned above.

Though I agree, 180 grain bullets are cream puffs to shoot, don't count out the heavier bullets as well.

It is also my intention to use some VihtaVouri N 330 to obtain velocities of 856 to 900 + fps.

Jim

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P1010028closeupopencase.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC200018Addtext265GrA716Xtextadded2.jpg

[Dale53]

The Taurus 441 is a a totally different revolver from the Tracker.

I do like my Tracker Stainless in .45 ACP, tho' (as I mentioned before). The .45 ACP doesn't suffer from too short a cylinder.

Regarding the .44 Wadcutter in a .44 Special. I have a Group Buy 200 gr double ended wadcutter that would make a fine defense OR target bullet. I can just visualize it as being a really good bunny bullet, also. I have really enjoyed hunting rabbits with a handgun. It is very sporting and the bag limits are not high. However, when you do bring home a couple with just a single hole in them, the family really appreciates them:mrgreen:. I just LOVE that kind of hunting. I never had to shoot a rabbit twice with the .44 (once always did the job:mrgreen:). Hit them in the slats and there is no lost meat, either. I have used everything from a .22 on up on rabbits. My preference is a .32 S&W L SWC or WC or a .38 Special WC but have done well with .44's (at them time that was the only stainless revolver I had and it was raining...)

Dale53

[leadeye]

I have a Charter Arms Bulldog that I bought at auction years ago. It was a reliable close range pistol that spent a lot of time in my truck but did not see a lot of time shooting. No problems with it, I used light load 240s.

[GabbyM]

Smith & Wesson makes the Model 396 Night Guard - .44SP
A five shot light wieght but you'd better be prepared to spend a dime.

Their new alloy light weight 44 mags are IMO a good 44 special gun that will chamber a 44 mag.

[missionary5155]

I have a Tuarus Tracker Titanium in 41 mag that is very high on my personal preference list only after my Dan wesson 41 mag. The Taurus is a 5 shot and weighs less than 2 pounds. Has a real nice factory "Cushion Grip" that makes it comfortable with 210 grain mag loads. 240 grain loads are a bit more interesting. Barrel is ported so muzzle climb is not terrible.

[Swagerman]

.45 Colt Trackers are nice in four inch barrels.

If they made them in .44 special I'd have one...and yes, I know you can shoot them in .44 magnums...but don't want too.

Jim


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P9030005goodonecropped591X.jpg

[Bret4207]

Love my Bulldog. If I ever run onto another for cheap I'll get it too and bob the hammer to make it more of a pocket gun.

[seb1008]

I recently bought a Rossi 720 stainless with 3" barrel and really enjoy this 44 special. I am going to send in my money for the group buy for a full wadcutter that Blammer is running. I think this should be a great bullet for this revolver. I am new to posting. but have enjoyed reading and learning from the members for a long time.

[targetshootr]

I almost have a 5 shot 44 spl. Got a 586 S&W, a 696 cylinder and a 6" Python barrel rebored to 44 cal. All that's left is some money and a gunsmith.

[smilie=1:

[Tom Herman]

anyone have a 5 shot 44 spl ? was thinking about getting one and wasn't sure who made one anymore.

Hi,

I compared the S & W model 624 to the Charter Arms, and boy was I glad I bought the 624! The Smith seemed a bit flimsy and light, but is twice the gun the Charter Arms is.
For me, I simply couldn't see shooting the Charter Arms. It's smaller than the Smith, and even lighter. The 624 was uncomfortable with the Skeeter Skelton load (8 grains Unique, 240 gr. SWC). I couldn't imagine shooting that out of the Bulldog!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Swagerman]

8.0 grains of Unique is a heavy load and recoil would be severe.

However, the Charter Arms revolvers are not useless toys, they are carried CCW
by men that can shoot them with aplomb. :Fire:

Wish I could shoot .38 special factory loads in a snub nose revolver, but I can't handle that either...too old.

I wouldn't shoot the above mentioned 8.0 grain load in any of my revolvers.

Jim

[Bret4207]

Hi,

I compared the S & W model 624 to the Charter Arms, and boy was I glad I bought the 624! The Smith seemed a bit flimsy and light, but is twice the gun the Charter Arms is.
For me, I simply couldn't see shooting the Charter Arms. It's smaller than the Smith, and even lighter. The 624 was uncomfortable with the Skeeter Skelton load (8 grains Unique, 240 gr. SWC). I couldn't imagine shooting that out of the Bulldog!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

I have both the Charter BD and S+W M-24. Two different guns, two different philosophys. The Smith is a full size N-Frame premium revolver that is a beatiful piece of workmanship. The Charter is a medium frame "workingmans" gun. The BD get carried a lot and shot a little. The Smith is carried a little but will be shot much more. If I drop the BD in the mud while checking fence I pick it up and rinse it in the stream. If I drop the Smith I break into hysterics and cry like a little girly man before rushing back to the house to check it all over and lavish loving care on it. You get the idea.

I've shot the BD with full house 44 loads including the Skeeter 7.5 gr Unique/Lyman 429421 load. Stiff recoil but no broken bones. I don't recommend a steady diet of that type load for the BD. In fact I have a 180 gr wadcutter that is much nicer. Just don't sell the BD short.

[Ghugly]

Current hot load for my BD is a Buckshot hollowpointed 429421 that tips the scales at 240gr on the nose, on top of 7.5grs of Unique. A bit stiff, but I've shot over 200 of them at a sitting with no ill effects other than the lingering stares of the other shooters, with their little 9mms and .40's wondering what the hell I was shooting.

For a fun load, I've been goofing with a .44 slim GB mould that drops boolits at 162grs. So far, I think I like it.

[Swagerman]

Here's some home made slim jims, Speer 158 grain .358 dia. swaged to .432 dia. and a gas check added to boost weight to 163 grains.

Jim


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PA200007Speerbulletsswaged700Xaa.jpg


Here is some middle target work done today with those 163 grain .44 caliber bullets that were once .38 special .358 diameter. A 158 grain bullet had a gas check added and it becomes super lite bullet for the .44 special.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/P1070030croppedtarget2XNText.jpg

Jim

[26Charlie]

Have both a S&W 696 3" and Charter Arms Bulldog 3", both 5-shot .44 Specials. I wouldn't part with 'em.
The Bulldog is a compact pocket pistol; I use 429215 GC with 5.5 gr. 5066 (obsolete I know, but I still have a couple of cans; 700-X or 231 would substitute). This will hold the black on a 50-foot pistol target in this gun. Rifling is shallow, hence the GC. Some plain-base bullets will throw the occasional sideways hole.
The 696 is a compact belt pistol; I use any .44 Special bullet & load - prefer the 429421 with 7.5 gr. Unique. This will better than hold the black on a 50-yard pistol target.

[sagamore-one]

I got my first Bulldog 44 spl as a package deal from a local police officer. He and his buddy went together and had the department obtain them each a Bulldog 44 for off duty use.I got both Bulldogs from the first officer who was sporting a large bandage on his shooting hand. Total round count for both Bulldogs was 4.. yes four rounds. When I pulled down the provided reloads I found what appeared to be Unique powder and the charge was 10 grains. No wonder the officer was sporting a sheepish grin to go along with the bandage. He apparently got the reloaded ammo from someone loading for a 44 mag.
10 grains of Unique and a 250 Keith is a fairly stiff load in my model 29. I can only imagine what it must have been like in the Bulldog.
My Bulldog just loves the H&G 107b, which is a 180 gr full wadcutter, pushed by 7.5 gr of SR 4756.

[GLL]

My S&W 696 is a well crafted and very accurate revolver ! When you can find a used one for sale they are very pricey ! The larger N-framed 3" and 4" 24-3 and 624 models are good used alternatives (6-shot though) and a bit less money.

Jerry

3" 696 S&W
http://www.fototime.com/5B4C41F3C883DC4/standard.jpg

3" 624 S&W
http://www.fototime.com/9A8573A8D28A8BF/standard.jpg


4" 624 S&W
http://www.fototime.com/CF137231BF7D808/standard.jpg

[Bret4207]

Jerry and his gun porn!!!

[Swagerman]

OK, in answer to my #9 post on this thread.

The weather is getting colder, but I finally got to make a short trip out to our local range to test the new VihtaVouri N 330 powder in my .44 speial loads...and this is with the Lyman #429244 GC heavy bullets of 265 grains.

Started out with minimum VihtaVouri loading for 267 grain bullet, with 6.3 gr. = 856 fps velocity. Not too bad a recoil but was surprised at its thump. (see target)

The VihtaVouri 6.8 gr. was more pleasant to shoot at POA, and recoil was about the same...only a slightly more accurate loading...I thought. (see target)

This is a very clean burning powder, I like it.

Jim


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/croppedVihtaVouri.jpg

[REDTAIL]

I bought one about a year ago as my ccw its a great little gun , accurate easy to hide & devours all types of factory ammo, these new guns from charter arms since the company re-orginized several years ago are top of the line handguns that i have no problems depending on it for self defence etc.:smile:

[Lloyd Smale]

ive owned 720 tarus (great bang for the buck) a 396 (brutal with keith level loads) and a 696 which is the one i really regret selling. I couldnt imagine a better belt and holster gun for bumbing the woods. Mine was light, well made, smooth and very accurate.

[9.3X62AL]

Call me a fond fan of the 44 Special.

My current revo in this caliber is a S&W Model 624 x 6.5", as different from the Taurus and Charter Arms 44s as they can be. NOT SMALL, NOT FRAGILE. Just think, Bret--if yer Smith 44 Special was in stainless, you could spare yourself the metro bit.

Skeeter's Load--the Lyman #429421 atop 7.5 grains of Unique--clocks about 925-950 FPS from the 6.5" tube. With The Pachmayr Grippers in place, it is tractable and my girls don't mind shooting it. It's the revolver's go-to load, good for all venues short of deer hunting. THAT bit gets 15.0 grains of 2400 under the same Keith SWC, and is running about 1100 FPS. I don't shoot a whole lot of those loads, but it is accurate and should make venison just fine.

[Swagerman]

Got a real nice one forsale in the classifieds. :coffee:

Jim

[MtGun44]

I have a S&W 396 Nite Guard. Nice gun, very usable out of the box.
Good night sights and stout fixed rear. Good grip. Have not shot
it extensively, but so far it shoots about 2.5" at 25 yds with the
best handload that I have tried.

Shoots 200 gr about to the sights at 25 yds (a bit right for me) and
250 cast go at least 8" high at 25 yds. I think they consider it for
mostly self defense, 200 JHP is what it is sighted for.

BIll

[sd5782]

Funny you should ask. I just got a 4" 5 shot Taurus on Auction Arms. Just shot it for the first time yesterday, and fell in love with the caliber, size, and feel of the gun. Now let the experimenting and load development begin.

[Swagerman]

I like the S&W 396, but those new S&W are a bit pricey at near $1,000. Same for their other .44 specials and .45 caliber guns.

That's why I'm a fan of Taurus guns. They make a good gun at a reasonable price.

However, I only own two Taurus, and five older S&W revolvers.

But...actively seeking another 3 to 4 inch barrel Taurus model 441 in .44 special.

Jim

[gcf]

OK, in answer to my #9 post on this thread.

The weather is getting colder, but I finally got to make a short trip out to our local range to test the new VihtaVouri N 330 powder in my .44 speial loads...and this is with the Lyman #429244 GC heavy bullets of 265 grains.

Started out with minimum VihtaVouri loading for 267 grain bullet, with 6.3 gr. = 856 fps velocity. Not too bad a recoil but was surprised at its thump. (see target)

The VihtaVouri 6.8 gr. was more pleasant to shoot at POA, and recoil was about the same...only a slightly more accurate loading...I thought. (see target)

This is a very clean burning powder, I like it.

Jim




Swagerman -
Surprised to find anyone else using N-330. I like it a lot, but it appears hard to find. I got lucky, & found a 4lb jug a while back.

I use it as my favorite, in a 4" S&W624. N-330 6.8 grains, under an LBT 260WFN-PB / .433" / 10BHN. These are cast at .434" for me by The Bullshop in AK. I size down & lube w/ Dan's Speed Green.

This load produces satisfyingly tight groups, even w/ my somewhat "limited" capability...

I also use 7.8 grains of N-330 under a 260SWC-PB / .452"/ 10BHN, in my .45 Colt, S&W 625-6 MG. Again, cast for me by Dan, & using his Speed Green.

Great little powder for a .45acp 230FMJ or JHP, in your 1911 also.

I am wondering if you have tried the N-330 w/ the same bullet you shoot in your 2nd Model .44 SPL conversion? Probably be a real winner!

[sd5782]

I agree with Swagerman about the high price and scarcity of S&W 44 specials. That is why I bought the Taurus 441. I also have a Taurus 741 4" 32 mag (J-Frame), because the Smith 4" 32 J frame is very rare and expensive.
If they build it we will buy it, but otherwise we shop elsewhere.
Now , where can I get an oversized sizing die for the Taurus? The chambers are .4335, so I am thinking perhaps a .433 would be fine. Any advice, or suggestions.
I am also looking for a 200gr mold that cast large, perhaps the Lee RF, although the Saeco 200 is nice looking. Does anyone have any experience wiyh these? What size do they cast with straight WW?

[gcf]

...Now , where can I get an oversized sizing die for the Taurus? The chambers are .4335, so I am thinking perhaps a .433 would be fine. Any advice, or suggestions...

The sizing die I use in my RCBS LAM II, appears to be factory marked .433, & made by RCBS...

[Swagerman]

From GCF:

==============================================
I am wondering if you have tried the N-330 w/ the same bullet you shoot in your 2nd Model .44 SPL conversion? Probably be a real winner!
==============================================

Sorry to say I have not shot any heavy 265 grain bullets, or high pressure loads in my older 2nd model S&W. That fine ole gun was made in the WW-1 era, the metallurgy is not up to high pressure loads...I cannot take a chance on anything over 850 fps velocity and still be on the safe side. (I'm babying it)

240 to 255 grains is about as high as I go with that old timer.

Had just about given up trying to buy some VihtaVouri powder in this north woods region, but one guy 20 miles away had one pound of the N 330. Of which I was looking for the N 350, but elected to take what he had as it would work in the .44 special and the 265 grain bullets.

Only thing is, the Vihtavouri loading manual is not real big on powder grain information with cast bullets...except for the 267 grain bullet.

As the book deals with mostly jacketed stuff in .44 special, I have to reduce the loads 10 % to be on the safe side with cast lead bullets...hope that works for me.

What is you folks take on that?

I have a 3rd model 5 inch barrel S&W that could handle that big bullet OK.



http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/100_0124croppedandtouchedup-text-1.jpg


Jim

[Swagerman]

sd5782, on the Taurus oversize cylinder chambers throats. Are you sure yours are that big?

My Taurus 441 measure out at .434 diameter and I use cast bullets, some with gas checks swaged to .432 dia. for excellent results.

A friend, Don, over in Idaho made up some bullets from moulds he had beagled to drop cast bullets to .434 diameter. I then run them through a lee or Lyman sizer die to .432 dia.

Before I begin doing that, my under sized slugs was allowing a lot of blow by ignition gas and gunk to fowl up my brass and gun in general...and that was before the slugs hit the forcing cone of the barrel.

Try some 1/4 inch hollow base lead bullets as well, but not too soft, or too hard...a 16 to 1 mix should work for you.

Jim

[sd5782]

The throats are just under.434. I will shoot plain base boolits in it. I just got it and have only shot 35 rounds so far. I have a couple of large casting molds, and was wondering how large I would need to size for best results. If I have to buy a custom sizer, why not a .433, or .434?

[Swagerman]

Well, did you happen to notice my target above these post? They were shot with basically the same gun as yours, same brand, barrel length and caliber...and the bullets were sized to .432 diameter.

So, please consider the .432 diameter size bullets as your finished bullet size. But I won't insist on you doing it, but it might help.

Another thing to consider is seating an over sized bullet in most standard reloading dies and getting a proper crimp. Too big a bullet diameter may be a problem.

If our gun barrels are .429 and we are using .432 bullets, that's big a step down in resizing the bullet when it hits the forcing cone and enters that smaller diameter rifling. It won't hurt anything because I've been doing it since last year.

I've even been doing it with Lyman #429244 GC bullets that are 265 grain in weight. Though these loads are not hot loads. If you want hot loads, one should be using a .44 magnum.

See target using 265 grain bullets that are sized to .432 diameter...shot at 20 yards.

Jim


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/44and45/PC200018Addtext265GrA716Xtextadded2.jpg

[sd5782]

Nice results. The 432 size looks good, and I saw posted elsewhere that it is available at Buffalo, although it is $45. The standard sizes stop at .431 which matches my Ruger SRH. Maybe I might try that also. I have an RCBS 245K, and a Lyman 429360 that both cast at near .434.
I was really pleased with the feel of the Taurus 441. The 44 special, and the gun seemed to go together wonderfully. I was looking for a mild plinker at a power level of the 45acp without chasing brass. The Taurus people find this gun very desirable. As I said, I am just getting started with it. It shot fairly well with the bullets sized .430, so I think things can only get better.

[Swagerman]

Taurus is kind of weird making the model 441 with such over size cylinder throats, it ticks me off because they did. Now I have to load two different size bullets for all three of my .44 specials.

However, I take a lot of satisfaction making these larger diameter .432 bullets work in this duffus arrangement. I have all the necessary equipment to do that chore.

Don't ever sell the 441, its hard to find another one...I've been actively looking for one to buy...so I'll have a back up.


sd5782 can you give us a picture of your great revolver.

Jim

[sd5782]

I will get a picture out this weekend. I thought long and hard about just getting a 44 tracker instead. I read that they are well made, and accurate, but nearly everyone dislikes the barrel porting. I shoot under a covered range, and even with ear protection, I thought it might be distracting, although I have never shot one.

[sd5782]

8841

8842
Hey Swagerman, here is the Taurus 441. I have seen your postings on the Taurus site. You may also have seen the other Taurus in the photos. A 741 4" 32 H&R mag. It goes well with the 441.

[REDTAIL]

has anyone loaded & used hornady's swaged lead bullets in 240 gr on game etc if so what have you hunted & used this bullet on and what load & powder etc

[Dale53]

Hornady's swaged lead bullets do not work well at magnum velocities. There has been MUCH reported leading. Hornady themselves do not recommend them at higher speeds.

Small game is a different matter. 850 fps will handle most small game chores. However, when hunting deer, I prefer 1200-1300 fps and CAST BULLETS. You can drive a plain base cast bullet (Lyman 429421 as a sterling example) at the highest speeds your revolver is capable of without leading of any kind. The bullets need to be the correct hardness and sized for your revolver with good bullet lube (NRA Alox/Beeswax 50/50 or Lars Red Carnauba work very well).

I have shot tens of thousands of these loads in several .44 magnums with complete satisfaction and YOU CAN TOO:drinks:.

Dale53

[wonderwolf]

I have both the Charter BD and S+W M-24. Two different guns, two different philosophys. The Smith is a full size N-Frame premium revolver that is a beatiful piece of workmanship. The Charter is a medium frame "workingmans" gun. The BD get carried a lot and shot a little. The Smith is carried a little but will be shot much more. If I drop the BD in the mud while checking fence I pick it up and rinse it in the stream. If I drop the Smith I break into hysterics and cry like a little girly man before rushing back to the house to check it all over and lavish loving care on it. You get the idea.

I've shot the BD with full house 44 loads including the Skeeter 7.5 gr Unique/Lyman 429421 load. Stiff recoil but no broken bones. I don't recommend a steady diet of that type load for the BD. In fact I have a 180 gr wadcutter that is much nicer. Just don't sell the BD short.


well said, I Don't have any hand guns I do that with yet but I have rifles I treat that way.

I looked at the bulldogs at the NRA convention and I have to admit I liked what I saw. Compared to the price of Lew horton's S&W guns they are dirt cheap. I see that Charter arms makes a target version with a longer barrel and adjustable sights but they don't offer one of the carry guns with adjustable sights. I would very much like one with adjustable sights but then I would start to do more load deveolopment that is nesicary on it I guess.

What is the cylinder length on the Charter arms .44 SPL? I take it from reading most of the above it will handle a 429421 with some room to spare? Most likely I would just carry a load using a 200gr Nosler but I do enjoy skeeters load out of my 29's

[Bear4570]

Out of the six .44 specials I own, 3 of them are 3"
A charter arms bulldog and my set of twin Smith 696's.
Great little gun if you can find one without paying an arm and leg for one.

Had a .44 Taurus Titanium 2" for a while that shot well also.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o21/Bear41mag/doc2013.jpg

[MtGun44]

696 looks great, but the used one at our local gun store is nearly $1000 !

Too much for me.

Bill

[sd5782]

Too much for me too. That is why I bought the Taurus 441 for $350. It is too bad that S&W can't make a few of these desirable discontinued models. If they paid attention to the auction sites, and forums they would see a market. I get tired of seeing the most compact, lightest blaster that is out.

[yarro]

I like my Charter Bull Dog Pug. Not as smooth an action as a smith, reminds me of my old SP-101 in that respect. I don't stoke my loads like Keith did. Too hot a load and I have a hard time getting quick follow up shots. If Smith made one that was the same size and wasn't too expensive, I would buy one.

-Yarro

[sd5782]

I like the mild loads too. I can blast with my SRH mag. I just want 45acp power with no brass chasing. It is just for plinking anyhow. I wish Charter made a 4" with adjustable sights. Fun caliber anyhow.

[Dale53]

sd5782;
I prefer the mild loads for general range use, also. That's why I love my 625's. I would really like to be shooting my 624's (4", 6.5") and my original 24 (6.5") but with my vision problems I no longer do well with open sights. I could have the .44 Specials drilled and tapped for a mount, then shoot with a Red Dot but, so far, I haven't been able to bring myself to doing that.

The 625's came drilled and tapped and it was a snap to install a Weaver base and go with the Red Dot. I have been shooting really well with 200 gr SWC at about 725 fps. One hole groups at 25 yards and good scores at 25 & 50 without "ringing my bell". What's not to like?:drinks:

Dale53

[sd5782]

Those Smiths are nice but a bit big for my hand. I second your plinking load of 200 gr at 725fps. The Lee 214swc with 5.3 of 231 is 720fps from the 4" Taurus. I just got a Lee 200RF to try, but was a bit disappointed in that it cast 213gr from WW alloy. That is a bit off, and the 214swc is at 212 gr. I think I will spring for a Saeco 200 TC soon. I have everything shoot high(probably me), so I was really looking for a 200gr boolit. Perhaps the Saeco will also cast large to match the Taurus chambers also. Glad to hear that I am not the only "wimp" out there who likes milder loads.

[HATCH]

My dad picked up a 624 a couple months back. It is a nice piece.
You don't have to load all of your reloads up to the max.
The object of my reloads is to find a load that is accurate.
And believe it or not, some of the min loads turn out to be very accurate.
Yeah, it is nice to make some screamers for protection.
But I would strongly suggest that unless there isn't production ammo availible for your pistol, then I would not use handloads for personal protection.
The above statement has NOTHING to do with the quality of you handloads but is more from the liability side of things.
All you need is to be dragged into civil court over defending yourself and have the perps family's attorney say that you custom loaded 'KILLER' bullets....

[GabbyM]

hatch you worry to much.

[EDK]

hatch you worry to much.


There were a lot of discussions about this over the years in AMERICAN HANDGUNNER and other magazines. HOWEVER, "THE EVIL HANDLOADS" topic was supposedly brought up in ONE court case and didn't carry much weight with the judge or jury....got dropped from discussion pretty quickly.

I have a 200 grain 44 wadcutter mold and am on the group buy for the 250 grain full wadcutter. I like them a lot for my target shooting and IF I get a CCW, I may use them in either a 624 or 629. I had a 696 for about 10 years; shot it very little and just never got attached to it...or it's 686 CS-1 look-alike in .357.

DALE 53 and I have had minor disagreements, but we both agree that a 625 45 ACP is a d--- good choice! I'd love to get a group buy mould for 45 full wadcutters and see what they would do in my 3 or 5 inch 625s.

What could someone find "EVIL" about wadcutter target ammo...as opposed to hollow points or armor piercing? There ought to be tons of literature about the usage of wadcutters for formal target shooting...especially from police departments before the change over to semi autos. OT: How come Sarah Brady and her cronies don't complain about the police using "evil semi autos?"

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[9.3X62AL]

The "evil reloads" mantra is championed most by one gunwriter in particular, and all I can say as one of the guys that presented citizen shooting cases (and homicides) to our prosecutor.......the question of "reload vs. factory load" never came up on the criminal side of any case. I don't believe it came up on the civil side of a case, either.

The usual routine for the bottom-feeding ambulance chasers who sue citizen defensive shooters is to storm and rant about how the perp was "just getting his life turned around", was enroute to turn his gun into the police station when confronted by the homicidal homeowner in the homeowner's hallway, or some similar fanciful tale of drunkenness & cruelty. Oh, the horror of it all. Even in southern California, by no means a gun-friendly location--the usual outcome is for the ambulance chaser to negotiate a settlement in the $5K-$15K range with a homeowner's insurance carrier, 2/3 of which go to him/her, leaving enough for the perp's survivors to buy a new set of rims for their roach coach or a down payment on a 50" TV set for the crib. Insurers are happy to cut the check just to make the mouthpiece and his/her noisome clients go away.

Justice served, just like burgers at McDonald's. Mostly, it's kabuki theater.

[wills]

If your factory round doesn’t stop the evildoer, your estate may have a product liability case against the ammo maker. If a handload doesn’t do the job you may be out of luck.

[HATCH]

hatch you worry to much.

I doubt anything will ever come of it should you go to court.
But why take the chance??

I keep factory ammo in my CWP's, personal preference...

[waksupi]

If I was sitting on a jury, I would be more suspect of the guy with the commercial "man stoppers", than some schmuck with a cast boolit in his pistoliver.

[9.3X62AL]

<-----Schmuck with factory ammo on board.

[waksupi]

:bigsmyl2:


<-----Schmuck with factory ammo on board.

[Bret4207]

Call me a fond fan of the 44 Special.

My current revo in this caliber is a S&W Model 624 x 6.5", as different from the Taurus and Charter Arms 44s as they can be. NOT SMALL, NOT FRAGILE. Just think, Bret--if yer Smith 44 Special was in stainless, you could spare yourself the metro bit.

Skeeter's Load--the Lyman #429421 atop 7.5 grains of Unique--clocks about 925-950 FPS from the 6.5" tube. With The Pachmayr Grippers in place, it is tractable and my girls don't mind shooting it. It's the revolver's go-to load, good for all venues short of deer hunting. THAT bit gets 15.0 grains of 2400 under the same Keith SWC, and is running about 1100 FPS. I don't shoot a whole lot of those loads, but it is accurate and should make venison just fine.

Al- Guns come in blue finish. Anything else is a poor excuse or something for a pimp or girly man to flash around.:mrgreen:

[Bret4207]

The "evil reloads" mantra is championed most by one gunwriter in particular, and all I can say as one of the guys that presented citizen shooting cases (and homicides) to our prosecutor.......the question of "reload vs. factory load" never came up on the criminal side of any case. I don't believe it came up on the civil side of a case, either.


Oh my, not the "handload vs factory" bit again! I had a lengthy email discussion with the purveyor of this idea, the writer who made the most of it, Mr Ayoob. While I enjoy his writing and wouldn't want to see the guy have to find a new line of work, I have to say he dodged questions like a champ. I'm sure he's a great professional witness because he could go off on a tangent at warp speed and avoid the question asked with the best attorney I know.

FWIW- I don't think it's a valid concern.

[NHlever]

Most of Ayoob's "police" experience came from a Barney Fife town of about 1000 people. I certainly have been in more gunfights than he has along with most veterans of any kind of combat. I read his articles, but am not impressed by his background experience.

[Bret4207]

Most of Ayoob's "police" experience came from a Barney Fife town of about 1000 people. I certainly have been in more gunfights than he has along with most veterans of any kind of combat. I read his articles, but am not impressed by his background experience.

Erzackly, and when you question him on it he starts in on his "Bonifides" and education. I gave up after a while. Make your living, write your stuff, feed your family, but let the "I'm a sworn officer" thing go. It's like me claiming "I'm a writer" because I have a blurb or 2 published. True, but not accurate.

[mooman76]

I've talked to a Lawyer on another site and he says there has never been a documented case where they have brought up in the case against someone defending himself with handloads.

[missionary5155]

I, for a short time, had a Taurus Tracker in .44 magnum. I had no intention of using this light gun with full charge magnum ammo but rather picked it up with the intention of using Skeeter's .44 Special load (7.5 Unique with a 240-250 Keith bullet). Unfortunately, the short cylinder of the Tracker would not allow me to use Keith bullets (loaded round was too long), so I decided that I did not want to load a particular load just for this revolver (I have several other .44 Specials that just LOVE the Skeeter load). So, I sold.

Dale53

A simple soution is to shorten the brass to the apropriate length....maybe to about the 44 Russian length. I have done this with my 41 mag Tauras Tracker Titanium... :Fire:

[MtGun44]

Perfect solution as long as you remember to back off the loads a bit.
Smaller combustion chamber raises the pressures, so that 7.5 Uniq
load may need to be 6.5 or 7.0 with a shortened case to get the same
pressures and velocity.

Bill

[dukers65]

i started innocently enough shooting 44 specials in a model 29-3.that gun shined with that caLIBER. but after awhile it was sorta like hand me downs from my big brother,or chewing gum with the wrapper on it. so i ended up with a few 44 specials , a S&W model 21-4, i'm surprised no one mention the 21-4 44 special 4". it is a sweet little 44 special, a ruger blackhawk 44 special conversion(one of my favorites,a cinamaron mdel p,and a taurus 44 special.
some loads they like, 12.5 2400 250 cast,16.5 grs imr 4227 240 cast, 5.8 231
250 cast,and i found trail boss a decent and pleasant shooting load.
the last is the 7.5 grs unique with a 250 cast bullet. what can i say it is a fun round. dan