Wikipedia - Winchester 50-110?

[Naphtali]

While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.

Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."

[MOA]

Ya, my mind just naturally tends to flo down those kind of streams too! Just for the fun of it.

[cwtebay]

While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.

Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."I have had the idea to do this for quite some time! My gunsmith has said that she is quite confident that the miruko rifles would do that and more!
A rifle builder at a gun show had an 1885 clone chambered input 50-110 that he loaded with smokeless. His claim was 2300fps with a 570 grain bullet!!!! He was currently working on an 1886 build for the same.
I really am looking forward to hearing discussion on this!!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

[woodbutcher]

[smilie=s: Now this looks to be a fun thread.I`ll saddle up and go along for the ride.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[ReloaderFred]

I shoot the .45-120 Sharps in a converted Browning B-78 with 420 gr. bullets at close to 2,300 fps, with smokeless powder. My rifle has a 1" octagon barrel, and it will jar your fillings, so I can only imagine what the .50-110 would be like with a much heavier bullet. I think I'll just stick with my little Sharps.....

Fred

[cwtebay]

I shoot the .45-120 Sharps in a converted Browning B-78 with 420 gr. bullets at close to 2,300 fps, with smokeless powder. My rifle has a 1" octagon barrel, and it will jar your fillings, so I can only imagine what the .50-110 would be like with a much heavier bullet. I think I'll just stick with my little Sharps.....

FredHaha!!! "Little Sharps "!!!!!!
What smokeless are you using?
Those are amazing numbers!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

[missionary5155]

Good evening
We have a 50 Alaskan in a 1886 (jap) with the 26"octagon barrel. This was a 45-70 bored and chambered by JES.
We have fired a 525 gc at a cronographed 1857 fps using 52 grains of H4198. Also loaded up to 55 grains which was still as accurate but not cronographed.
The rifle showed no signs of stress. No hard ejection. Only issue I saw as the shooter was the recoil. But then I am a small 150 pounder. Not sure if I would want to touch off a 525 grainer at 2000 fps.

The 50-110 case is longer. More powder space. We did not try seating out to the 1st grease groove which would be near the same length of the 50-110 which could easily change capacity and maybe the use of a slower powder.
This thread should be interesting to read as things get loaded up.
Mike in Peru

[ReloaderFred]

Haha!!! "Little Sharps "!!!!!!
What smokeless are you using?
Those are amazing numbers!

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk

I'm using IMR 4895, with Super Grex for a case filler. Most people will shoot it one time and then hand it back. When I offer them another round, they politely decline.

Fred

[Jedman]

There are several guys on the Graybeard forum who have taken 32" barreled buffalo classic handi rifles and sent them to JES and had them rebored and chambered to 50-140.
I don't remember who went the farthest with smokeless loads but at some point the recoil was the limit.
It is a huge cartridge and can produce big energy without going to hi in the pressure.
I would think most sporting rifles would not hold up to a steady diet of a cartridge like that as stocks crack and things break with that level of recoil.
It all is fun and games until someone detaches there retinas.

Jedman

[bob208]

.50-110 is the express load for the .50-100. I have a box of .50-110-350s in my collection.

[Tatume]

For comparison, Buffalo Bore advertises 50 Alaskan ammo making up to 4000 ft. lbs. energy with a 525 grain bullet at 1850 fps. To make 6000 ft. lbs. with that bullet would require 2270 fps. That is somewhat higher than the 458 Lott shooting a 500 grain bullet at 2300 fps, for 5870 ft. lbs.

The 460 Weatherby cartridge handily exceeds these levels, with a 500 grain bullet at almost 7000 ft. lbs. and a 600 grain bullet at 8000 ft. lbs. energy. I would imagine chamber pressures are in the vicinity of 60,000 PSI.

I cannot imagine shooting cartridges with these energy levels in a Model 1886 rifle!

Some years ago I was asked to evaluate 720 grain bullets in the 458 Win Mag. The maximum I achieved was 1765 fps in a Ruger No. 1. rifle. This gives 4980 ft. lbs. energy, and I can assure you I didn't shoot very many. I still have a small supply of those bullets, and no intention of shooting them!

[500Linebaughbuck]

While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.

Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."



ahhhhhh thank you, but no. not only no, but hell no.

51 caliber is good for is the 500 linebaugh. oh wait a minute, i have one in tc encore with a 24" MGM barrel. hs-6 and 460gr lfn gc is all i need. i'll go with 2400(alliant) cuz it shoots so well. i have no need to "fill her up", just nice and easy load that goes about 1200-1300fps.

[jdb3]

My 50 2 1/2 Sharps pushes a 515 grain bullet at 1400 fps and kills moose with aplomb! Can't imagine needing anything over that. I don't feel under gunned even when facing a "big brown furry things" here in Alaska! The recoil isn't over powering either. Jim

[Aaron]

well, I was going to upload a picture of my 50 - 100 - 450, but it won't let my file upload. Any suggestions?

[indian joe]

well, I was going to upload a picture of my 50 - 100 - 450, but it won't let my file upload. Any suggestions?

take the picture with yr phone -- email it to yrself - file it - attach it -- all good ......the phone to computer transfer resizes it down so it posts here easy - dunno how this works but you still have reasonable detail in the posted picture ---- this would not be the right way to do this (just gettin that in before the experts come at me) but it works

[Aaron]

Hmmm.... still not going. Anyone mind me emailing this to him and trying?

[indian joe]

Hmmm.... still not going. Anyone mind me emailing this to him and trying?

to me ???? ok if you like
joe

[robg]

Fun to watch someone else shoot those huge loads .I'm old enough to say no thanks .a 458 win mag was more than enough for me after three rounds .

[indian joe]

to me ???? ok if you like
joe

Aarons 50-110 pic 218622 ?

[indian joe]

File too big I think
4.4 meg when it hit my mailbox - was a bit lost with this
1)I opened it with MS office picture manager
2)select Picture from the top menu bar
3)on the right side menu box "compress pictures" used the document button to resize - that made it 300kb or some there

I have a samsung phone (cheap model) setup for internet and if I take the picture with my phone then email it to myself on the computer it does all this stuff so the gun pic is small enough to use on the forum - I think the limit is 400kb per picture ? - The interesting thing is the resize still has decent picture quality if it was a good clear one to begin with.
joe

[indian joe]

maybe I ike this one better
218625

[Estacado]

I'll make a long story short. In my earlier years, I shot a .458 twice. I did not believe it hurt that much the first time. It did. Good luck with your endeavor!

[indian joe]

I'll make a long story short. In my earlier years, I shot a .458 twice. I did not believe it hurt that much the first time. It did. Good luck with your endeavor!

just doin him a favour postin the picture -- shootin that cannon is above my paygrade - my 47/70 sharps carbine, 8 pounds wringing wet, 500grain boolit over black - is enough!!! (shot prone)

second thoughts maybe I silly enough to try a couple with the 50 standing .........or maybe NO

[Aaron]

Thanks Joe for posting the pic for me! The top one is a 500 JRH done on a 94 Marlin pre-safety. Built by Jack Huntington and case colors are by Turnbull. The middle one is a 86 Winchester clone in 50-100-450 done by Turnbull. The bottom one is a 50 Alaskan on a pre-safety Marlin 336. Initially built by a Smith in Missouri, then made functional by Jack Huntington.

[Aaron]

218685

[John Taylor]

I have converted a few 86's to 50 Ex. Most customers complain about the recoil with a crescent butt plate. The original twit was 1 in 56" and will not stabilize 500 grain bullet. The 50-100 has a faster twist.

[lar45]

I was at a Linebaugh shoot in Cody one year and some guy brought a 700NE double rifle. I think ammo for it is something like $120 a round.
A milder conversion is supposed to be the 405Win on the new M95 with just reaming a longer throat so you can seat 400gn bullets out long. They chamber the same rifle in 270Win, so you should be able to run 65kpsi on the new action. I hear they are getting 450-400 ballistics.

219141

219142

Another one I've considered is the 1887 Win 12 ga reproductions with a slug barrel on it. I think that White Labs proof tested them up to 45kpsi or something similar.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

While my computer is completing its weekly "Total Maintenance" series of applications I have been digitally "thumbing through" my unorganized downloads folder. I was reading Wikipedia's web page on Winchester 50-110 rifles and ammunition. The final sentence of its web history is a humdinger. Not only does it make sense to my mind, it is also among the most bizarre tidbits of information I have read - that is not political. The web page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.50-110_Winchester.

Here is the final sentence. Emphasis is mine.
Also in more modern guns like the new browning 1886 71 Winchester and the new 1886 Winchesters made in Japan are capable of much higher pressures and the 50–110 WCF can achieve up to 6,000 foot pounds of energy.

Who has created these "elephant killer" handloads? . . .Anyone? . . . Bueller? How do they compare with basic cartridge case variations such as: 450 Alaskan (Fuller version more reliable feeder); 50 Alaskan; 510 Kodiak Express; and 475 Turnbull?

Since the 475 Turnbull was created to be used in gunsmithed modern Winchester reproduction 1886 rifles that Mr. Turnbull rates as accepting 40,000-42,000 psi, with quicker twist than the Winchester 1886 50-110 Express version and longer cartridge case it appears to be able to safely match bullet and ballistics of late nineteenth- and early twentieth- century British double rifles intended for elephant hunting.

I understand that no one needs such a package. I understand that creating ammunition for such a package will be neither easy nor significantly superior to the others in my third paragraph beyond 100 yards. Dedicated tinkerers should be able to kvetch out the last drops of power for closer range hunting. The essential reason to test the package is: "It'll be fun."

John M. Browning designed far in excess of black powder requirements, enough for some extremely useful and practical high velocity smokeless loads, which I have no qualms about using in my original .40-82.

But nothing exceeds like excess. I agree in being quite confident that the modern Miroku would stand the pressure, although I don't exactly like "quite confident". That gunsmith wasn't talking about having it happen in front of his eyebrow. I think the Miroku is one of the modern versions which does away with the large ejector, extending all the way to the firing-pin hole, which Winchester did away with in the 1892 onward.

Any 1886 loaded as you suggest, or nearly suggest, would also recoil quite murderously with the 1886 weight and stock geometry. But never mind. Think of all the fun you would be having.

[John Taylor]

I did a four barrel set for a new model 1886 takedown several years back. All seemed to go fine except the 348 barrel with Buffalo bore ammo. The rifle locked up and would not open unless the hammer was dropped again. It worked fine with Winchester ammo. The customer sent it back for a new butt stock with shotgun butt plate after firing the 50-110.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Why does anybody want a lever-action rifle? For a quick, aimed followup shot.

Why does anybody want a hypersonic version of the .50-110? For immense stopping power, to do away with any need for a quick, aimed followup shot.

Why does anybody want both of them?

[indian joe]

Why does anybody want a lever-action rifle? For a quick, aimed followup shot.

Why does anybody want a hypersonic version of the .50-110? For immense stopping power, to do away with any need for a quick, aimed followup shot.

Why does anybody want both of them?

cuz its fun!! and there are a lot of rampaging concrete blocks and plastic water jugs out there in the bushes - those things will take ya out in a split second - and who knows when we might need to derail a train - those big lead boolits will shoot a hole in railway line. Also have a thought for the local chiropractor - he needs to make this months payment on his new benz.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Indian Joe... then there are those rampaging Toyota pickups trying to make a get-away...

"Why does anybody need ...." A faster car, more powerful motorcycle, arobatic aircraft, deeper diving submersible, more accurate rifle ......
How about a pocket watch that will keep time within 3 seconds a month....

Just because you do not see the "need" does not mean it is absurd, wrong, undesirable....
Is not freedom about not hindering an individual to give it a try....
Mike in Peru

[indian joe]

Good morning
Indian Joe... then there are those rampaging Toyota pickups trying to make a get-away...

"Why does anybody need ...." A faster car, more powerful motorcycle, arobatic aircraft, deeper diving submersible, more accurate rifle ......
How about a pocket watch that will keep time within 3 seconds a month....

Just because you do not see the "need" does not mean it is absurd, wrong, undesirable....
Is not freedom about not hindering an individual to give it a try....
Mike in Peru

Mike
a while back I watched a video of a bloke shooting a model 71 in Ackley improved 348 (same feller is an active promoter of the 50-110 right now) just a short little clip shooting into the sunset - I have a similar rifle in straight 348 so some interest and familiarity - he had three emptys in the air above his waist as the bolt closed in on the fourth - I was suitably impressed - It takes practice and skill to shoot a big gun like that ..........who needs a 348 ackley? - nobody NEEDS it - but I bet he had more fun making that clip than I got watching it.
Hey I just bought a little Toyota pickup - 1994 model - looks pretty harmless to me - but we got Amaroks and Rangers and Great Walls and Rodeos and BT50's lurkin in the bushed everywhere - watch out !!!!!!

[Dusty Ed]

HOWDY Tatume
A few years ago I had Ruger #1 in 45-70 .
I load it up 1900 fps with a 500gr. bullet ,3 shots was all I could do.

[Mr_Sheesh]

You folks are making my shoulder hurt in remembrance & sympathy...

And I haven't seen a T. Rex adult anywhere around here in years!

Plus, if I wanted to take a T. Rex out I'd frankly invest in a nice Carl Gustaf recoilless Rifle. Anti-Armor, eh, close enough :p

[fiberoptik]

Teddy liked the .405.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Good morning
Indian Joe... then there are those rampaging Toyota pickups trying to make a get-away...

"Why does anybody need ...." A faster car, more powerful motorcycle, arobatic aircraft, deeper diving submersible, more accurate rifle ......
How about a pocket watch that will keep time within 3 seconds a month....

Just because you do not see the "need" does not mean it is absurd, wrong, undesirable....
Is not freedom about not hindering an individual to give it a try....
Mike in Peru

How about the small subculture of people (not, to my amazement, all American) who for no verified physiological advantage trephine their own skulls with holesaws under local anaesthetic? A bit closer to the realms of normality, if pain does something for you, there are latex-clad ladies who will do it for you at less cost than a custom-converted modern Winchester. Well so I am told, anyway.

That the motive is understandable, and the result harmless to others, doesn't necessarily make it an indication of maturity and judgment. Still, I notice that there is a considerable amount of interest in going to unnecessary lengths in making or using extremely small firearms, such as the perennial .25ACP rifle theme. Perhaps it is a matter of being different.

[JSnover]

"Why does anybody need ...." A faster car, more powerful motorcycle, arobatic aircraft, deeper diving submersible, more accurate rifle ......
How about a pocket watch that will keep time within 3 seconds a month....

Just because you do not see the "need" does not mean it is absurd, wrong, undesirable....
Is not freedom about not hindering an individual to give it a try....
Mike in Peru

For what it's worth BiS didn't question anyone's need.
I didn't need or want half the guns in my collection until a good friend with a C&R license and a heart filled with evil talked me into them.
Years ago I longed to own a "Toyota Stopper" but never had the means. Now I could buy several but my pain threshold gets lower as I age. 45-70 and 9.3x74 satisfy my wants. For the moment. A handful of more practical (maybe tactical is a better word) guns satisfy my needs.

[dubber123]

The 50's are pretty efficient. I cobbled together a double rifle in 50-90, (same case as 50-110). At less than 30,000 Psi I got a 560 grain paper patch to almost 1,900 fps with no issues in a 22" barrel. No idea the foot pounds, but seems fairly brisk. :)

[John Taylor]

For some unknown reason there are people out there that like to push the envelope. I installed breach plugs on a SXS 4 bore a couple months back, can't imagine why anyone would want to shoot one. A few years ago I made a 416-500 on a model 21 Winchester with 24" barrels. Hearing protection and a lead sled did not help much, the muzzle blast gave me shell shock. I'm getting to the age that recoil is a real problem. Took the 45-70 barrel off my rolling block and installed a 38-55. Bought the last of the 32-40 barrels that are 36" long from GM and plan on using one for self. I do have a 50-100 in the works on a model 71 but most likely will sell it when it is done.

[Chev. William]

Deleted double post. Oops.

[Chev. William]

When I was younger I liked shooting 30-06 in both an M1903A3 and an M1 Rifle. The Last time I shot my M1 Rifle (one enblock clip full) I had Bruising on my right Chest, right Shoulder, and Right upper Arm. I am 75, and on a 'permanent Warfarin Sodium Prescription'; so I am working on a .25ACP rifle also.
I am 'making do' with a Center Fire (CF) converted Stevens Model 44 in .25 Stevens chambering and shooting .25ACP, .25ALR, .25MACP, and .25ALS Through it. A project in the works is a CF conversion Winchester 1890 for use with .25ACP, and possibly .25ALR made from Parts bought off of Ebay, a Relined ~20 inch cut down Winchester 1890 Octagon barrel, and a spare Front Housing.

Chev. William

[MOA]

When I was younger I liked shooting 30-06 in both an M1903A3 and an M1 Rifle. The Last time I shot my M1 Rifle (one enblock clip full) I had Bruising on my right Chest, right Shoulder, and Right upper Arm. I am 75, and on a 'permanent Warfarin Sodium Prescription'; so I am working on a .25ACP rifle also.
I am 'making do' with a Center Fire (CF) converted Stevens Model 44 in .25 Stevens chambering and shooting .25ACP, .25ALR, .25MACP, and .25ALS Through it. A project in the works is a CF conversion Winchester 1890 for use with .25ACP, and possibly .25ALR made from Parts bought off of Ebay, a Relined ~20 inch cut down Winchester 1890 Octagon barrel, and a spare Front Housing.

Chev. William

Nice job there Chev. I noticed at 65 I was bruising up quite a bit more than at 55 even though im not on any thinners. Just amazing how one can lose the density in the layering of skin tissue. One of these days im sure I'll be shooting everything with Trailboss powder. Maybe I should start laying in the supply now before the prices go any higher. lol