Vintage S&W crowd... Minty Model 27 questions

[Mytmousemalibu]

So I have run myself across a pickle of a situation! I have come across a verrry clean Model 27 for sale and I have been casually hunting for a nice example, preferably a 3.5" or 4 was the direction I was looking. I was shown a beautiful M27 that iirc, was a 6" or 6.5" I can't recall. It is gorgeous example and I was told this one is somewhat rare in the barrel length it's in. I can't speak to that myself but would like to hear your thoughts. The bluing is drop dead gorgeous, mile deep blue luster that is perfect all over. I don't think its been reblued, the stampings still have the raised edges around it all that typically is not present on a reblue. The prominence is that it was in the estate of an older gentleman, shot little but care for. Now it does exhibit a little bit of gas cutting into the top strap that is common on these older guns. The cylinder locks up good, no excessive play. The trigger is smooth and incredibly nice. It has the beautiful checkered topstrap and barrel that the 27 is known for. It shows a little age elsewhere like the red ramp is a bit tired and the magna's had some character. The only thing that really gives me pause is one "flat" of the cylinder has what looks like some small pits/dents in it like would be present if it had rusted or maybe impact damage. But the bluing is bright and shiny. So some things seem to contradict themselves with what I see and I'm fairly observant when looking at guns. If it was reblued it was done by an expert, no doubt about that. I wouldn't pass on a refinished gun provided it was done perfectly and the gun was mechanically sound but with a price that reflects a refurb. The example in question is supposedly original and with a price of $1600 so im hesitant. I wished I had pics for you all but ill have to go back for deeper analysis and to confirm details. I want an old classic P&R Smith in my collection and the 27 is the target. I want an old classic that is from the bygone era where real craftsmanship and expertise was the natural way. Deep lustrous hot salt blued guns that were hand fitted, built with forged steel, not MIM'ed for economy, pinned and recessed and the embodiment of what was Smith and Wesson's best. I don't think a registered magnum or unregistered is in the cards but an old 27 is. I just want a clean example. I'd like to know how old this one is so ill need the serial number I presume. Anyhow, what do the classic S&W guys have to say, what to look for, etc?

[376Steyr]

Well, deep down inside, you know it's a re-blue job. Check out the Gunbroker ads to see what comparable models are bringing. Did you happen to know the elderly gentleman who previously owned it, or is that what the salesman at the gun shop told you? The original box, with documents showing the gun had been re-furbished by S&W, would help justify getting a larger percentage of the asking price. As far as your fantasy of getting a hand-fitted gun, you'll need to look for a pre-27 model to get that. A red ramp on it? That places it in late seventies, early eighties territory right there. I'm betting if you pulled the grips off, you'd find more pitting there.
Sorry to be such a party-pooper, but your gun sounds like it's been well used, re-finished, and now has a "rare, collectable" price tag stuck on it. I've been known to do silly things when a Model 27 is dangled in front of me, but I'd pass on this one at that price. The price is too high for a shooter, and the condition doesn't justify it being a safe queen.

[Dan Cash]

Price is too high for described condition. Also, note well 376's comment regarding red ramp sights. Can't comment on bluing with out visual inspection. Gas cutting as described may not be gas cutting as these revolvers have a milled cut in the top strap above the breech end of the barrel to disperse gasses. This cut is often mistaken for gas cutting.

[MT Gianni]

At least $600 high for the condition described. Even with matching coke grips it is too high. Run it by the S&W crowd at their forum.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Well, thanks for bringing me back down to earth! I get kinda drunk when someone puts a pretty Smith in front of me! I don't personally know the previous owner but I know the store manager pretty well. Deep down im really pessimistic it was refinished but somethings like the crisp markings said otherwise. No box or paperwork with this one. I suppose if it had gone to S&W for refinish it might be why the bluing is good as it is.

I need to go do my homework and sharpen up my M27 knowledge before hunting though this one found me. The price seemed awfully rich but I didn't know if there actually was certain barrel lengths that are more rare than others. I did think the red or orange (im colorblind) ramp was older than late 70s but again, homework...

[Petrol & Powder]

When I read that it had a red ramp front sight I immediately became suspicious. 376 Steyr's comments are exactly what I was thinking.

I would pass on that for several reasons, the biggest reason being what you wrote in your post, " .....I have been casually hunting for a nice example, preferably a 3.5" or 4 was the direction I was looking."

Decide what you want and find an example that fits what you want EXACTLY.
Trust me on this, you will be far happier in the end if you acquire what you want as opposed to something that is close to what you want.
Save up your money and have the cash on hand. When the "Right" one comes along (and it will) be prepared to buy it. Know what you are willing to pay before hand and don't settle for something close to what you want just because it is in front of you.

[Mytmousemalibu]

All good advice and what I needed to hear. I appreciate the evaluation! Further proof Cast Boolits is the place to be! Im at this particular gunshop & range every week so if its there still, ill go ahead and take some pictures just for grins and post them up. Thanks fellas!

[dubber123]

Keep looking, as the others have noted, it seems quite a bit high. The red ramp is one of the biggest tip offs its not that old. Keep searching, I bought a 1962 vintage 4 screw, 5" nickel in very nice shape (incorrect grips), from a shop for $275 not that many years back. While this was a great deal, it proves they are still out there.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Ill keep my eyes peeled for a more appropriate deal. Im after a blued model but nickel or not, $275 is a steal! The oldest Smith wheelie in my collection is a Model 64 DAO law enforcement trade-in. I don't know how old it actually is but it still has the old hammer nose/hammer mounted firing pin but it has the newer shapely looking cylinder release pad. Based on that, has to be somewhere in the 90s if I remember correctly. So I need a nice oldie in my collection!

[376Steyr]

If you're going to play in the Smith and Wesson pool, you need this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Standard-Catalog-Smith-Wesson/dp/1440245630/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1522284223&sr=1-1&keywords=catalog+smith+and+wesson
Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. It has serial numbers and dates of manufacture, variations, model numbers, and suggested prices. Spending 30 odd bucks can save you hundreds, especially if somebody waves a "rare and collectable" specimen under your nose. Sometimes you get pleasantly surprised, like the time it told me what I thought was a run-of-the-mill "Mountain Gun" in 44 Magnum when I bought it was actually a limited distributor run made much earlier.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for the link Steyr, last time I looked to buying the Standard Catalog it was unavailable at that time. One is finally on its way!

[walnut1704]

The only thing I'll add is maybe that red ramp was added after-the-fact. It was quite popular to retro-fit red ramps on older guns after S&W introduced them.

Also, a bit of freckling on one cylinder flat is usually indicative of a gun that sat untouched for a long period of time, and that part of the cylinder was "down", in contact with whatever it was laying on/in.

[Mytmousemalibu]

The only thing I'll add is maybe that red ramp was added after-the-fact. It was quite popular to retro-fit red ramps on older guns after S&W introduced them.

Also, a bit of freckling on one cylinder flat is usually indicative of a gun that sat untouched for a long period of time, and that part of the cylinder was "down", in contact with whatever it was laying on/in.

If the 27 is still there on the next time I'm there, ill take a few picks for the thread. Until then I can only speculate on its age and whether the gun came as a red ramp or if it was modified.

The first thing I thought when I discovered the cylinder freckles was that it looked exactly like it had sat undisturbed for a long time, lying on that side. It seems obvious now that it must have been reblued. I can't fathom how that damage could occur but not hurt the bluing, even as impact damage. And even at the tail end of the original production run, I would expect a little character in the finish since its not NIB. Thinking back now, I don't recall seeing any turn marks on the cylinder either and it should exhibit some. You guys were right, the sum of its parts don't add up right. I'd still love to have it for a price that reflects its condition, and I wouldn't feel guilty about running plenty of ammo through either.

[Bigslug]

The one-side pitting thing could well be from sitting in a factory presentation case for a long period of time. I've seen that a time or three, so look hard.

Trolling for a 5" myself. . .I feel your pain.

[dubber123]

The one-side pitting thing could well be from sitting in a factory presentation case for a long period of time. I've seen that a time or three, so look hard.

Trolling for a 5" myself. . .I feel your pain.

They made a run of them in the 90's, those might be a little easier to find, I have one, and the aforementioned 5" 4 screw. I like that length on the 27's myself.

[Drm50]

I agree, this is not a $1600 gun. I just paid $1200 for 83/8" NIB presentation case a few months ago. I have seen several hi condition shooters with original finish for $1K ( not 31/2"ers). I deal
heavy in N frames/ P&R and that is about standard price for nice Hi condition shooters, except
scare barrel lengths. Serial# and dash number would help ID it. There has been a slow down in
S&Ws in last few months. I think the bubble has stalled on shooters, there are plenty for sale but
they are priced to high, I haven't bought anything for 6 weeks and that is unusual. My advice is
keep looking, Red Ramp- Flame Cut- possible reblue doesn't sound like a lightly used S&W.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I was shown a beautiful M27 that iirc, was a 6" or 6.5" I can't recall. It is gorgeous example and I was told this one is somewhat rare in the barrel length it's in.

6" isn't rare
I'm not aware of a 6.5", but I don't claim to be an expert.

could it have been a 5" ?
I paid what I thought was a premium for a 5" mod 27 nickel (unfired, supposedly) in presentation case/papers/tools, about 6 years ago. I am always on the lookout for listed prices for that one, and they are all over the place ($1800 to near $3K), of course they aren't "sold", just listed for sale.

[tinsnips]

Move on from this deal. I spend one to two years looking for the perfect old S&W for the right price and condition.Be patient you can find great deals.