quick twist question

[compass will]

Looking at a .308 for 2 uses. Cast boolet shooting in Winter, High Power silhouette in summer. The local smith was showing me through the Remington catalog and said I don't want a 1:12 twist because it will not let me shoot heaver then 140 grain (I think that is the number he said). He said I want a 1:10.

Your opinion is gratefully requested please!

[44man]

1 in 10 should cover everything you want to shoot. With the 1 in 12 you have to drive heavy boolits faster then you can get out of the cartridge.

[Bass Ackward]

Tough call. I could make a case for either way really.

That's why we been buildin 11 twist.

[45r]

My 308 rem Mtn Rifle will shoot 1/2 MOA with 150 sierra j-words.I've been thinking of getting the RCBS 165-sil mold for it.I'm getting 2 to 3 inch groups out of my Marlin 357 and 45 colt at 100 yards.I would think a Rem 308 would do at least as well..I'd buy the Rem if that is what you want.

[compass will]

Wow, this really puts a fly in the ointment.

the 2 guns I been leaning torwards,
the Howa Compact Heavy Barrel Varminter has a 20" barrel
Howa has a hornaday recomendation on there sight
.308 Win. 20” 1 in 12 Custom 150 GR. SST

the weatherby Vanguard Heavy barrel is 22" barrel with 1 in 12.
again Hornaday calls out a 150 GR. bullet.

My other choice, the Remington 700 heavy barrel varmint I like has a 26" barrel with 1 in 12 twist.

the savage is getting out of my price range, and they seem to be getting heavy enough to push me over the weight requirements.

But when you look the standard taper barrels they are 1 in 10 in the Remingtons.

what do I do? Change calibers at the expense of less mold choices for shooting cast?
give up on the heavy barrel?
Get the 1 in 12?

If I go 1 in 12, how much of a handycap would I have being maxed out at 150 GN condum bullets trying to knock down rams at 500 Meters?

would the 1 in 12 be better for cast speeds?

Keep in mind I am looking to have fun, not shoot national matches. If I ever got that good I might be able to afford another gun :)

It appears there is not one gun to fit several disciplines.

[mike in co]

palma shooters shoot 155 bullets from 1/14 and 1/13 twist bbls.....yep they are long bbls but they shoot pretty good at 800/900/1000 yds.....

so much for your so called gunsmith opinion....stuck in history.

i have shot 168s from a 1/14.......at 600 yds.

my ar-10 is 11.25...a compromise of 10 and 12 twists.....shoots very well

12 and 10 are both used in 308, tho 12 has been the more common.

i'd go for a 12.....

my br ar 10 uses a 1/15 for 135's, and would probably shoot 150's

ask your gunsmith if he as a 1/10 in stock ??? if he says yes...you know for sure why he reccommended it.

buy the best quality you can afford.....

mike in co

[felix]

OK, just how fast do you want to shoot, and with what boolit? ... felix

[compass will]

OK, just how fast do you want to shoot, and with what boolit? ... felix

I am looking to buy one gun for 2 modes of competition.

The cast bullet association guys shoot all year at my range. This gives me 6 months additional compitition during the winter. Since I love casting and reloading as much as shooting, I have been wanting to play with these guys for some time now. They have a lot of knowledge they want to share (just like you guys do).


I also want to try High Power silhouette next summer.

so how fast and what boolit? That depends :)

[docone31]

I have an A&B heavy in 1/10. I shoot between 147gn, to 200gn. I have never gone lower than that.
I am pleased.
Personally, I would go with the 1/12. Tailor the load for that twist. I use 4895.
Sweeet.

[felix]

I don't know what high power sillywet is. If you are talking Rams at 550, then 30-06. If you are talking BR, then you are talking 308. Talk to both clubs, and see what they are using and what smithy they use. I would get a BR action that I liked the looks of, get two barrels and two stocks. I like a thumbhole for (offhand) sillywet work. I like a conventional BR stock for BR work.
... felix

[44man]

Felix, that's what I was wondering, what weight boolit he needs to knock over steel. I was thinking 190 to 220 gr's and if he can get enough velocity with cast for stability.
My guess is the 1 in 12 would be better for the lighter boolits to maybe 165 gr's.
The slow twists are fine for jacketed because of the velocity you can get. Shooting normal target doesn't need heavy bullets either but for the extended range stuff I would want long, heavy bullets/boolits.
I only have the 6.5 Swede left for a rifle and don't shoot cast because the bore is pitted but might try some day. So bear with me because I don't have cast experience in rifles.
I can learn here too! :drinks:

[Larry Gibson]

Compass will

Your local "smith" needs to do a little more homework. The 12" twist is standard for the .308 Winchester. It will stabilize bullets from as light as you want to shoot up through 200 gr RNs. I have been shooing 12" twist .308 barrels in high power competion for years out to 1000 yards. The 175 Sierra MK is very stable and gives excellent accuracy out 1400 yards with a muzzle velocity of 2650-2700 fps. The BCs of most bullets are higher when shot in the 12" twist vs a 10" twist which means they will shoot flatter, buck the wind better and be more accurate at long range. The usual compramise is usually to get a 1-11" twist. I've shot numerous of those over the years (still have kreiger 11" on my match M1A) but find they shoot no better that a 12" twist. Actually a 14" twist will stabilize .30 cal bullets up through 165 gr quite nicely and if RNs up through 180 gr. I shoot them that heavy out of my 14" twist Palma barreled .308 all the time.

Also if you are talking cast bullets the 12" twist will allow accuracy to be better at a higher velocity because of lower RPM. Go with the 12" twist.

Larry Gibson

[gray wolf]

Wow this is a great thread, and comes at a good time for me.
Well here I am poor, and no money me, and a great friend has offered to by me a new savage 308 classic 14. Walnut stock, high luster blue barrel and action with the hinged floor plate, It looks like a nice rifle.
They know I need a good deer rifle. Well I called savage and they said they come in 1-10 twist and shoot 168 Gr. HPBT bullets to test the rifles.
They said the rifles do 1 1/2" at 100 yards. So I thought that was a good thing.
I want to cast for the rifle also. Wow It will be my first rifle to cast for.
I would shoot J-word bullets also, 140 to 165 grain. I am a one hole freak as far as accuracy goes.
So do I not get this 1-10 twist Savage? Sorry to add to this thread
But it seemed a good place for it and I know you guy's will help.

GW.

[compass will]

Thanks for the help everyone! This is exactly why I posted the question here, I know I will get answers from people who have tried both sides of the question.

Come to think of it, this is the same smith that told me not shoot cast in my 22-250 because it would erode the throat.

Well I am off to the range to shoot that first batch of bator boolits in the 22-250 [smilie=1:

Then maybe off to Cabelas, at least they have an inventory that allows you to look at them.
Plus I got $70.00 in Cabelas bucks burning a hole in my pocket.
And if I buy before the end of the October I got this rewards card that gives me a $150.00 cabelas gift certificate if I spend $500.00 (good until the end of Dec, and Christmas is coming).

So a $570 gun would cost me $500 out the door, then they give me an additional $150 good for my next visit to Cabelas. Oh don't forget if I buy the remington 700 I get a $40.00 mail in rebate. I end up getting a $570.00 gun for $310.00 This is the type math you tell the wife to justify spending it :drinks:

CW

[44man]

Larry, thank you for a good answer! :drinks:

[compass will]

Struck out at Cabelas. The only heavy barrel in .308 they had was the Savage 10FP, in 1 in 10 twist. Plus it was around $50.00 more then the remington.

They are going to call me tomorrow to tell me if they can get me a remington and the price.

thanks again.

[Trailblazer]

I have shot High Power Silhouette for years. Years ago the 308 was the favored cartridge. Then the 7mm-08 became the darling. Now the 6.5's are all the rage. I used to use a down loaded 30-06. A 180 at 2500-2600 will do very very well on rams. I used 150's and lighter on everything else. The 168 match bullets are popular in the 308. And as noted a 12" twist works very well. The idea is to deliver energy or momentum at the target. A higher ballistic coefficient bullet puts more energy on the target.

I now use a 7mm-08 with 140's and up on rams. I usually load 2500-2600 in the 7mm too. The 140's will occasionally lose a ram. More powder and heavier bullets would fix that but I don't lose enough rams to worry about it. I like lighter bullets for pigs and chickens. I use 120's at 2500-2600 fps or even 100's at higher velocity for them. The name of the game is to reduce the recoil and shooter fatigue. I know there are plenty of hairy chested types out there that can shoot 40 plus full power rounds without flinching but very few seem to turn up on the silhouette range.

The guys shooting the 6.5's like the 260 Remington and 6.5x55 are using 140's or 142's on rams. A lot of them use 107's on everything else.

Silhouette is a challenging game. It is all about trigger control. The rifle is always moving so you have to trip the trigger when the sights are moving into the target. The targets are all 2-1/2 to 3 minutes in size. That sounds big to the stool shooters but silhouette is a different game. Good luck and have fun!

[compass will]

Looking at the Remington 700's in Heavy barrels, I don't see any choices for 7mm-08 260 or any 6.5mm's. I guess you need to re barrel to get those choices.

Trail blaser, in your opnion, is it worth getting a heavy barrel? (if I can stay below 10 lbs 2 oz with my scope)

[felix]

CW, based upon the questions you are asking, it would behoove you to ask the members of each club if you can use their guns (and loads) for a match. Switch equipment between relays so you can better tell what fits your demeanor best. Hopefully, the members in each club are friendly enough to accommodate you. Naturally, pay them better-than-fair for their ammo. ... felix

[Trailblazer]

The heavy barrel settles down better but you have to hold it up so fatigue is a factor. I like a sporter weight barrel because I hold the fore end out forward with my elbow free. Most people prefer a heavier barrel but I get tired holding a heavy barrel up. Many people keep their elbow against their chest and keep there hand back under the magazine to support the front of the rifle. A heavy barrel may work better for them. So it depends on your shooting position and strength and how heavy the barrel really is. There is a lot of variation in factory heavy barrels and I don't know what is currently offered. I am now shooting a Winchester 70 Featherweight and it is to light out front. It is a hard rifle to shoot off hand because of the skinny barrel.

Probably more important than the weight is a good consistent trigger. If you can find a factory rifle that you can adjust the trigger down to two pounds, or less if you shoot the heavy rifle class, then I would consider that first. Also put a good recoil pad on it.

It is hard to know what works best for you until you shoot a while. For example, I used to think I liked a long length of pull because I have long arms and neck. I have come to prefer a 13-1/4" length of pull. Hard to know until you jump in!