Allen Under Hammer action, very nice !!!

[kens]

I bought an Allen under hammer action, it is very nice. The trigger is nice out of the box, and could be tuned by a competent 'smith easily. The top side is sized for 1" octagon barrel.

[Tatume]

I'm looking forward to hearing about the build as it progresses.

[kens]

I cannot post a image .jpg.
OK, I made the pic smaller.

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[Reverend Al]

Always have loved these under-hammer design of rifles. Managed to find an un-fired "Heritage" target model in .45 that was bought by a fellow many years ago as a "wall hanger" and so of course I bought it immediately. Still sitting in my gun cabinet ... I really need to get out and shoot it one of these days!

:oops:

https://i.imgur.com/KuRRV2u.jpg

[kens]

Here is couple more pics different sides
it appears to be lost wax casting, it could be browned as is, but a little draw filing and polish it could be bright blue.

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[Lostinidaho]

It will be fun to watch your build proceed.

I just put together a H & A Under Hammer. I chose it so I could change the barrels. Is that possible with this action?

Keep us up to date.

[kens]

Yes switch barrel would be easy, any rifle up to .62 cal or shotgun up to 20ga

[kens]

Im thinking of this barrel contour

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[Lostinidaho]

That is nice barrel. I am using a similar profile for my 20 ga barrel. Mine has only one wedding ring band. Your picture looks like it has two rings, is that right.

[kens]

the barrel maker quoted me as 3 rings. that photo came from a catalog, I been speaking directly with the barrel maker.
Stay tuned !!
it will be very similar; part octagon, part tapered round to the muzzle

[Earlwb]

Nice action and setup. I like it.

[oldracer]

I used an Allen action when I built up my under hammer a couple years ago. I had Pecatonica River install my barrel as they did that and then cut the dove tails for the from globe sight and also the barrel lug. The barrel has to be torqued on and I don't know how much so I let them do it. The also had an unusual piece of very dark striped maple so I bought that from them and had them drill the stock for the attachment bolt. I have a picture or two on here I think?

You can adjust the trigger pull very easily as I was shown how. You'll need a trigger pull scale (great excuse to buy one!) and remove the trigger assembly and there is a rod to the trigger with a nylock nut on it. You turn the nut one way to increase and the other to decrease pull. I forget which is which, sorry. I got my pull to exactly 2# which matches my Gibbs rifle and as you found the pull and break is great. I polished the whole action including the trigger guard but not the trigger with 4 coats of OxPho blue and did the barrel the same.

My barrel is a straight hex, 45 caliber fast twist and I shoot 540 grain paper patch bullets and it is great out to our range's max distance of 300 yards. Since the action and barrel together weigh very little I found the rifle kicked badly with 80 grains of Goex FFG so I put on a recoil pad, I am getting old and the shoulder can't take as much as before!

The last thing I did was to use a shotgun 209 adapter so I did not have to worry about the cap falling off and no residue on the rifle. If I can help in any way just holler.
John

[Harleysboss]

How would this action work with a round barrel? I have one (barrel) and have been eyeballing this type action. Just wondering.

[kens]

How would this action work with a round barrel? I have one (barrel) and have been eyeballing this type action. Just wondering.

as you can see, the top of the action accepts 1" octagon, the bottom of the action has no shape (as far as barrel concerned) you could certainly use a round barrel, you would just have either the barrel standing proud of the hex flats, or, the hex points proud of the round barrel.
I think you could dress down the offending edges with a small radius and be just fine.

[oldracer]

Here are a couple of pictures of the one I finished in May of 2016. I added a palm rest so I can shoot it off hand in Schuetzen matches?! I asked our local gunsmith who is pretty much an expert in all things black powder and he said swapping the barrels can be done but they have to be torqued each time.

[kens]

how does the forearm attach to the barrel?
and,
is that the stock wood from Pecatonia?

[oldracer]

The barrel has a dove tail cut into it and Pecatonica River has a fitting they sell that fits snugly onto the barrel. I used a fine thread machine screw (nothing exotic) bought from a near by Lowes and a washer from door panels off an antique Porsche to fasten it down. The forearm needed a slight amount of scraping and it fits just a bit snuggly. The shape is aa standard one they sell but the pieces of wood were un-naturally that dark so all I did was put on a couple loats of sealer and then 25 coats of automotive lacquer. LOTS of sanding......good Lord an awful lot! They told me a about the wood when I was setting up what I wanted as I bought the barrel from a young fellow in WI and he sent it to them. I was happy to let them mount the main stock as you can see in your bottom picture of you second post the shaping of the wood to fit would be a hassle and then you have to drill the hole for the mounting bolt. They did it perfect, great guys!

[stubshaft]

Great looking rifle. I had a couple of H&R's that I wish I didn't sell...

[kens]

I just ordered a 1" octagon, 4140 steel, 34" length, bore/groove for .32-40.

[oldracer]

I imagine this will be a 32 caliber muzzle loader? Not sure what bullet you would need and if you are going to paper patch it or have a bullet with grease grooves but in any case it should slide down the barrel easily. I guess you are familiar with both single shots I.E. the 32-40 where the bullet is groove diameter and with a muzzle loader the bullet is bore diameter. In this case the twist rate should be fine but some load development will probably be needed?

[Hanshi]

Always have loved these under-hammer design of rifles. Managed to find an un-fired "Heritage" target model in .45 that was bought by a fellow many years ago as a "wall hanger" and so of course I bought it immediately. Still sitting in my gun cabinet ... I really need to get out and shoot it one of these days!
:oops:
https://i.imgur.com/KuRRV2u.jpg



I bought my H&A .45 Heritage model back in the mid 1960s and I still have it. It's been fired a LOT! It has taken bobcat, squirrel and deer. The tg spring is dead - actually just the tab that returns the trigger. It's now just a wall hanger until it ever gets fixed. The tang peep got lost at some point but it's in excellent shape. It has to be one of the most accurate muzzleloaders I've ever fired.

https://thumb.ibb.co/kvSF3S/PICT0505.jpg (https://ibb.co/kvSF3S)

[kens]

I imagine this will be a 32 caliber muzzle loader? Not sure what bullet you would need and if you are going to paper patch it or have a bullet with grease grooves but in any case it should slide down the barrel easily. I guess you are familiar with both single shots I.E. the 32-40 where the bullet is groove diameter and with a muzzle loader the bullet is bore diameter. In this case the twist rate should be fine but some load development will probably be needed?

It will be a muzzleloader. The bore/groove of 32-40 is supposed to be 315/321. So, I think I can use a soft cast .308 bullet (many cast @ .310) with a paper or cloth patch.
Or, buy a 315 mold and shoot it full bore.
I don't know what you would call it 30, 31, 32 cal?
I was looking for a underhammer some time ago, and came across the Allan Foundry Underhammer. This has much nicer lines than the Hopkins & Allan, and the trigger on my action is nice right out of the box. I looked for a fast twist medium-small caliber ( most muzzle loading barrels are slow twist and soft steel, in the shapes I like), and I came across this 32-40 barrel in 4140 steel. That sealed it up. 1" straight octagon to match the Allan action.

[kens]

I got the little action back from Pecatonica today.
I had them breech the barrel, install the forearm lug, and turn the muzzle for me to use a false muzzle.
Since I'll be using conical bullets, I'll make a false muzzle of sorts to assist me in starting bullets straight.
The best I can tell with a soft slug from the muzzle is a .312/.321 bore/groove.

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[oldracer]

Have you opened up the action yet to make sure it is clean and put some lube on the moving parts? I opened mine and found some metal shavings and dust inside so I flushed things out then dried it and used some Mobile 1 synthetic grease to lube everything. I also adjusted the trigger pull so it is right at 2# now with no creep or movement. I found if I went lower than that, the cocking of the hammer was unreliable and sometimes would fire on it's own. When I bought mine the pull was 7.5# which was too high for me.

I had to add a recoil pad to mine due to the light weight of the rifle was allowing it to kick too much for my liking.

[Lostinidaho]

Looks great. I am in the process of making a forearm for my octagon to round 20 ga barrel for my H&A from Pecatonica. Nice action. Nice people to work with at Pecatonica.

[kens]

What trigger adjustment??
Mine had a bit if creep out of the box, and a bit of dry firing in my hand it got lots better. Probably quite useable as is.
The people at Pecatonica are very nice, did nice work.
I paid their price for an upgrade in the wood, and boy!! they sent me crotch burl !!

[oldracer]

The trigger and hammer come out as an assembly. I could never find any instructions on how to work on it so I got my mentor to take a look at it. To pull the assembly out you have to remove the main stock, remove the allen head bolt that is just over top of the stock attachment threaded rod and then remove the screw that goes across the front part of the action. I use an allen T-handled wrench with a ball end to pull the machine screw and a gunsmith's screw driver to undo the front one. There is a rod for the trigger with a spring and Ny-lock that can be adjusted to set the trigger pull. To put it back in is a reverse of the removal process.
John

[kens]

I had it apart couple times, simple enough.
I didnt know the lock nut/coil spring was trigger adjustment.
I thought that was tension on the hammer.

[oldracer]

Hum, I thought it was the trigger but I could be wrong and it might be the hammer? I adjusted mine and the trigger pull went down? It has been a couple years since I put mine together so you might want to test it to see what happens? I filed a small notch on one flat of the lock nut and kept track how I turned it.
John

[Mac118]

I've been intrigued by these actions since I first saw them and thought they would make a good platform a for a hunting rifle. Just a couple questions; are you planning on leaving the surface "as cast" or will you be sanding it smooth for final finish? And would you mind sharing the cost Pecatonica charged to set the barrel, even if shared as a range of cost ($75-100 etc.)? It appears they did a super job. Thx, Steve

[oldracer]

When I think about it and doing several range trips. the lock nut does adjust the hammer but as it gets lighter the trigger pull gets easier also. With mine I polished the action and wrapped the breach area of the barrel with tape so I would not burn the edges of the barrel. I cleaned and degreased things very well and used Oxpho blue which did a pretty good job with 3 coats.

I use a 209 primer adapter and the end of the threaded part is even with the inside of the barrel so I get amazing ignition!
John

[kens]

The price for breeching the barrel/action wasn't much. I don't remember the invoice cost, maybe 30 or 40. I also asked to turn the muzzle for false muzzle and that was rolled into his price.
He did nice work, not expensive.
I will finish the action and blue it.
Also, this action is open in the front, and I think it needs some sort of cover to keep excess flash out of the front of action. I made a little leather bra to wrap around it.

[oldracer]

My under hammer goes "braless"! On the one I made it use a Mag Spark 209 adapter so there is very little if any flash soot out of the fore end and into the trigger opening. I have shot mine out to 200 yards now that I figured out the load somewhat and so far little if anything gets into that opening. The bullets I am using are bore diameter and are easy to start and very slight pressure to seat on the wad and powder.

You are right about having the guys at Pecatonica do the barrel work which they seem to perfect at and the price is great! I worked on smoothing the barrel for about 10 days or so as I could only stand the filing and sanding for a few hours a day due to the arthritis in my hands and arms. I was going to use a belt sander but wanted to keep the sharp edges on the barrel flats.

[Mac118]

Thanks for the Pecatonica price info. That brings me closer to trying a project with one of these. And I like the idea of the 209 primer adapter for a field gun. Steve

[kens]

My under hammer goes "braless"! On the one I made it use a Mag Spark 209 adapter so there is very little if any flash soot out of the fore end and into the trigger opening. I have shot mine out to 200 yards now that I figured out the load somewhat and so far little if anything gets into that opening. The bullets I am using are bore diameter and are easy to start and very slight pressure to seat on the wad and powder.

You are right about having the guys at Pecatonica do the barrel work which they seem to perfect at and the price is great! I worked on smoothing the barrel for about 10 days or so as I could only stand the filing and sanding for a few hours a day due to the arthritis in my hands and arms. I was going to use a belt sander but wanted to keep the sharp edges on the barrel flats.

Pecatonica breeched the 1" Oct barrel to the action, and, they smoothed the barrel to the action, edges are very sharp. I dont know if they draw filed it, belt sanded or what, but it is a very nice job