Hopkins and Allen 922

[WJP]

I've got a nice receiver and barrel but nothing else. Does anyone have an idea who may have some parts? I know I could probably buy one cheaper done than fixing this one but I hate to get rid of it or have it taking up room until I die. I need all internals.

[corbinace]

A fair amount of that stuff shows up on Ebay. You can make a search that email alerts for key words whenever they get listed.

I have one that is only missing the stock now. Unfortunately the bore needs lined as well.

Good luck in your search.

[Bent Ramrod]

That’s about all you can do: check E-Bay, go to Gun Shows, alert the Parts sellers, post requests on every internet Gun forum that allows them. There must be three or four empty H&A 922-932 receivers for every lever and breechblock that shows up, and ten for every loose hammer and trigger. The “mid-size” H&A is an even more dismal prospect, IME. I have a couple such paperweights awaiting completion myself.

Very different situation than the Stevens Favorites and 44s, where the loose innards are more-or-less routinely encountered. I very seldom see even an H&A frame, or complete action at Gun Shows any more. Wonder where they all went? They made a gazillion of them back when.

Also, keep in mind that there were subtle changes to the H&As over the years, so the parts you do find may or may not need to be fitted. The late, great Charles Carder wrote the only book I know of on the H&As, and noted the differing measurements of the small falling-block receivers, IIRC.

[Drm50]

I had just an action around for several years. I kept looking for a barrel and wood. I ended up
getting barrel & stock and used a Stevens forearm. I saw a 32rf at show couple weeks ago with
front of frame cracked, tagged $200. I have a H&A in 25/20ss that I am looking for parts myself.
Going on 10yrs it ain't eating nothing, it's sitting with other basket cases, sooner or later parts
will turn up. Sell it and you will find parts the next day.

[tim338]

I have a complete H&A 922 with great wood I would let go. It's been reblued (pretty good job) barrel needs re lined.

[WJP]

I thought about selling just so I could find the parts. Thanks for the heads up on the changes NoZombies mentioned that to me as well. All I know is it's a Enders Royal Dead Shot. May not be worth rebuilding but I figured I'd try. I keep checking ebay, gunpartscorp, and all the usual places.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I almost thought it wasn't worth looking, but almost incredibly Numrich Gunparts have the breechblock and lever, which puts you a lot closer to being in business. Some of the small parts, such as screws, from other H&A rifles might be usable too.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/hopkins-allen/rifles-ha/922-2

They are extremely likeable little rifles, nicer than the Stevens Favourite in my opinion. I would be wary of using them for much more than the .22 rimfire, as the receivers are likely to be malleable cast iron rather than steel. But used as intended, they should be fine.

[WJP]

Must be loosing my mind.or they added some parts in the past month. Thanks for the link. I'm going to see what a fellow member comes up with this week. I like the little guns and Stevens. Really need to make it cost effective to be a worthy project though. It will definitely be a 22lr gun if I can find the parts reasonable enough.

[uscra112]

I thought about selling just so I could find the parts. Thanks for the heads up on the changes NoZombies mentioned that to me as well. All I know is it's a Enders Royal Dead Shot. May not be worth rebuilding but I figured I'd try. I keep checking ebay, gunpartscorp, and all the usual places.

Interesting - I have a complete 932 (.32 Long RF originally) that is marked Enders Royal Dead Shot. Crude - done free-hand with a vibrating engraver.

Agree with what Bent Ramrod wrote - parts are few and far between. Springs you can make. Screws you can make. The link you can make. The breechblock you can make. The hard parts are the hammer, trigger, and lever.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Interesting - I have a complete 932 (.32 Long RF originally) that is marked Enders Royal Dead Shot. Crude - done free-hand with a vibrating engraver.

Agree with what Bent Ramrod wrote - parts are few and far between. Springs you can make. Screws you can make. The link you can make. The breechblock you can make. The hard parts are the hammer, trigger, and lever.

Ah, the .22 is the practical one, but someday I will find a good candidate for the several pounds of primed but never loaded 9mm. shotshell cases I bought when they were auctioned off by the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House. Despite the name no part of the body is 9mm., and they are a good fit for .312 bullets.

As to making parts similar to those, I've been there... done that... wondered if I needed my head examined. But it's great when you stop.

217069217070

[Jabber]

Is this thread still open? I have a complete? 932 action. I am looking for a main spring for a 922. This 922 has the take down screw on the side, not underneath. not sure if it makes a difference.

[marlinman93]

By the time you accumulate all the internals, plus the stock, and barrel, you'd be better off and less expensive to sell the receiver and buy a gun.

[Drm50]

I come across falling block H&As once in a while but not that many of the cheaper types. Survival rate on them is poor just like bottom of the line boys rifles from the other makers. They were rode hard and put away wet.
When you think about the thousands of these type rifles sold you would think a lot more of them are floating around. I live in a small rural town and when my kids were in Jr High school I bought a junk Stevens Favorite off one of their friends. That got around and for a few years kids were dragging all kinds of basket cases to me. Once in awhile I could make one out of two or three but sold most for parts at shows. That was before the Net.
The price of poker is up. The parts guns that were $15 are now $150 for a gun that's only worth $100 in decent shape. So unless a gun has sentimental value, it is more cost efficient just to prowl the shows and buy one.

[uscra112]

Is this thread still open? I have a complete? 932 action. I am looking for a main spring for a 922. This 922 has the take down screw on the side, not underneath. not sure if it makes a difference.

Screw on the side marks it as a "Junior", made before the disastrous fire of 1900. The 9xx was developed from it. I believe that one or more of the stockmakers may have wood for it. A .22 barrel can be fashioned from a Marlin Model 60 barrel, of which there are plenty for sale on Gunbroker. The spring you will have to make. Not a particularly difficult one; it is almost, (but not quite) a flat strip with a hole in one end. Would make a good beginner's gunsmithing project, but the budding 'smith will need a lathe.

[steve urquell]

Dad has a functional but rusty H&A 922 he bought from a widow. It shoots great but you never know when it will crap out. I bought a Stevens Favorite 30GM .22mag back when they made them for awhile ~2000 I think. Wish I had bought a .22LR at the same time.
https://i.imgur.com/4IdBCHF.jpg

[uscra112]

That 922 probably won't "crap out" unless the main spring breaks. It's a bit crude, but is the strongest of the "boys' rifles" of the period, barring maybe the early (non-takedown) #4 rolling block Remingtons. I still have a 932 that was converted to .32 S&W Long (centerfire) in the past. Seller claimed that he had fired several boxes of factory ammo through it, which would crumble the link of a Favorite. The 932 is begging for more.

(Before you go thinking about converting your own 932, be warned that simply making a new link to move the firing pin as he did makes the extractor almost worthless. Better to re-bore the firing pin channel, given the absolute clarity of 20-20 hindsight.)

[steve urquell]

That 922 probably won't "crap out" unless the main spring breaks. It's a bit crude, but is the strongest of the "boys' rifles" of the period, barring maybe the early (non-takedown) #4 rolling block Remingtons. I still have a 932 that was converted to .32 S&W Long (centerfire) in the past. Seller claimed that he had fired several boxes of factory ammo through it, which would crumble the link of a Favorite. The 932 is begging for more.

(Before you go thinking about converting your own 932, be warned that simply making a new link to move the firing pin as he did makes the extractor almost worthless. Better to re-bore the firing pin channel, given the absolute clarity of 20-20 hindsight.)

I was referring to any of the rusted parts on it breaking. He gave me a mod 72a rifle from the same widow. Bolt handle broke off of it while cleaning the rust off.

[Bent Ramrod]

C. Sharps Arms had a prototype 922 on display at the Denver Gun Show. It differs somewhat from the originals, notably that it isn’t a takedown, but it looks pretty identical otherwise on the outside. I don’t know anything about the internals, but you might inquire of them whether their mainsprings would fit an original.

Like the late lamented Varner Favorite, this H&A repro is a noble effort; unique and cute as can be. Also, like the Varner Favorite, you’re going to pay big bucks for a copy of a rifle that used to sell for a $5 gold piece. Parts will probably be similarly pricey. But any source in a famine.

[steve urquell]

C. Sharps Arms had a prototype 922 on display at the Denver Gun Show. It differs somewhat from the originals, notably that it isn’t a takedown, but it looks pretty identical otherwise on the outside. I don’t know anything about the internals, but you might inquire of them whether their mainsprings would fit an original.

Like the late lamented Varner Favorite, this H&A repro is a noble effort; unique and cute as can be. Also, like the Varner Favorite, you’re going to pay big bucks for a copy of a rifle that used to sell for a $5 gold piece. Parts will probably be similarly pricey. But any source in a famine.

I started getting excited when I started reading an article about this rifle and it said: "The best news about this new Hopkins & Allen copy is the price, because it is certainly affordable."

By "certainly affordable" they meant $830.

http://www.thegunmag.com/special-from-c-sharps-arms-hopkins-allen-model-922/

[uscra112]

It is a bit ironic that a modern copy of a very cheap rifle is so expensive. Of course volume of production has most to do with it. The original 9xx series receivers were mass-produced malleable iron castings, while today C. Sharps is probably whittling them from solid.

Stevens triggers and hammers were formed to near-net-shape by punching them out from sheet (yup!) while today we'd CNC cut them one at a time.

[uscra112]

The O.P. could conceivably make his mainspring, starting with a suitable strip of spring steel, using nothing more than a hacksaw, files, and a hammer, just as our colonial forefathers did. Rather than a charcoal forge, a propane torch would do the heating, and a can of used motor oil to quench. There are several decent booklets on making gun springs around, and I don't doubt that yuutuube has a dozen or two videos.

[Jabber]

The 922 I have is in great shape and a great shooter, except for a broken main spring. The 932 action looks to be complete. If anybody is interested, let me know. I found out about C. Sharpes remaking the 922 from a different thread. I contacted them and they are sending me a main spring to see if it will match.

[uscra112]

So, you've got a complete rifle + an action, and neither has a mainspring?

[Jabber]

The 932 is of a different year, or something like that. It is not the same. The 932 action does look complete, mainspring and all.

[uscra112]

I forgot. One of yours is a Junior, pre-1900. Junior has the takedown screw on the side, the 9xx models have it on the bottom, like a Stevens. I have both, and have never looked to see if the springs interchange. :oops:

[Drm50]

I learned something. I always thought parts like hammers were machined as a "bar" on a mill and then sawed off and holes drilled before hardening.

[uscra112]

Many companies forged their hammers. Can you imagine making a Sharps hammer any other way?

Stevens did it the cheapest high-volume way, and I'd assume that H&A did too. Their guns are clearly designed to make that possible.

Something that only manufacturing engineers really appreciate is how much a design is constrained by manufacturing methods and costs.

[AntiqueSledMan]

I'm not an expert on this topic but I believe the 922 was chambered in 22RF and the 932 was chambered in 32RF.
I also thought there was a 925, chambered in 25 Stevens RF.

AntiqueSledMan.

[uscra112]

I'm not an expert on this topic but I believe the 922 was chambered in 22RF and the 932 was chambered in 32RF.
I also thought there was a 925, chambered in 25 Stevens RF.

AntiqueSledMan.

Correct. 925 specimens are pretty rare, but you do see one occasionally. There were "deluxe" versions prefixed 19xx, and there was even a 2925 model rifle chambered for the .25-20 Stevens centerfire. A sorta-kinda Schuetzen wannabe. They didn't fool many buyers with that one. In 15+ years of collecting H&A rifles, I've only seen one, and the seller had stars in his eyes when deciding on an asking price. All of the "high grade" H&As were checkered, but they look like it was done by a left-handed bear using a trowel. Better to have left them alone.

[Jabber]

I talked to the very nice people at C. Sharpes about their remake of the H and A 922. They said they are making their new one as close to the old 922's as they can. So I ordered a new mainspring from them for my 922. It came promptly, as promptly as snail mail can be, and with very little reshaping it fit fine. My thanks go out to C. Sharpes and the fellows on this forum for passing on that type of info.

[uscra112]

Well, I looked at their web site. Looks like they made 50, and have sold them all despite the price. The only change, they say, is the barrel is threaded in, rather than the slip-fit of the original. And for sure the receiver will be steel instead of malleable iron, and the precision will be more like a quality modern rifle. Now, do I put my name on the list? Decisions, decisions.

[Jabber]

They sure look pretty. If they shoot anywhere near as good as my early 1900 model, I say definitely get on the list.

[uscra112]

Only drawback is the straight vertical motion of the breechblock. Makes it hard to use a competition-type .22 chamber which has to have the bullet pressed into the lands.

[Bent Ramrod]

I remember somebody on the old Shooter’s site made up a H&A 922 in .22 Rimfire Magnum. After many posts of excruciating detail on the smithing work, he got about eight shots out of it before the block set back and the rims started bursting. Too much pressure for indifferently casehardened malleable iron.

If the new ones are made of real steel with threaded barrels, they ought to handle magnum rimfires and small low-pressure centerfires as well. I have parts of an old Junior in .32-20. They could get away with that (maybe) in the old black-powder days, but I wouldn’t want to fire smokeless rounds in it (if I ever get the rest of the parts). Never seen another, so M&H/H&A must have wised up quickly and dropped the chambering. But a real steel version should have no trouble with mild or moderate smokeless loads.

Given the selling price, I wonder why they didn’t make a good steel copy of the medium-frame version. It could be made to the standards of the original Bay State offering, and would probably work in any moderate caliber up to .38-55. They could even re-engineer the trigger adjustment thingie so it’s reliable. It would certainly be a better deal at close to a kilobuck asking price. If the various Little Sharps and other mutants are successful, as they seem to be, a modern H&A/M&H/Bay State ought to sell also.

In our dreams, we’re free indeed.

I guess I’m so lukewarm on the price of the new kid version because I have enough grungy originals, found for cheep, in my accumulation.

[Drm50]

The H&A rifle I had looked like target gun. In Flauderman book closest thing was Ladies Perch Belly target. It was a 25/20 SS. It looked like that rifle buy was a bit fancier.

[uscra112]

The H&A rifle I had looked like target gun. In Flauderman book closest thing was Ladies Perch Belly target. It was a 25/20 SS. It looked like that rifle buy was a bit fancier.

Catalog reprint I have shows that as a Model 3925, "Hopkins and Allen Schuetzen Rifle". (I earlier said 2925 but that's wrong.) As far as I could see it was the same frame as a 922.

The one I saw was at an antique arms show in Novi, MI, maybe 15 years ago. Wonder if it's the same one? There can't have been very many.

Same catalog says they made a 938, chambering the .38 S&W cartridge. I have never seen one of those.