S&W model 29 skipping cylinders

[megasupermagnum]

I've been playing around with various handguns lately, and the latest has been an old S&W model 29 (it may be another variant), it is a 10 5/8" barrel silhouette model. I shot 8 through 9.5 grains of american select powder behind a 210 grain SWC hollow point. These were rather light loads, but I had problems early. This gun has been shot only a few times a year, and this is the first time I've gotten to try it. The first 3 shots were touching, then a flyer, and the last went click. I opened the gun up, and found it had skipped the last one. I shot my next 5, and it skipped every other. I repeated it a 3rd time, before stopping. This was shot slowly, single action, from a sandbag. I noticed the gun has some very minor cylinder end play, but did not measure it. I've been reading about cylinder skipping when shooting fast, but never shooting groups, especially from light loads. Any ideas? The last 5 I watched carefully, and when cocking the hammer, it only goes over to the next cylinder. When it skips, it seems to be during firing.

[beagle]

I bought a 10 5/8 M29 shortly after they came out. I experienced the same problem. My gunsmith worked on it for several days and finally traced it to a out of spec firing pin. Came from the factory that way. After replacement, it fired normally. If you've never fired it much, you might check that first as S & W could have put out a batch with out of tolerance pins./beagle

[Dan Cash]

I suspect you need the attention of S&W or Cylinder and Slide. That Silhouette revolver could look pristine but still have been rode hard and put up wet with very heav loads and a bunch of them. I don't think a firing pin is going to have anything to do with skipping a bolt notch.

[lar45]

I had a 10 5/8" M29 way back in the day. With heavy loads mine would do the same thing. I never did get it fixed as it was stolen when I was in Alaska...
Anyway, I read about the problem in a gun mag and S&W's fix was to lengthen the bolt notch and put a heavier spring in on the next model change.
It does seem odd that it was doing it with light loads. Maybe the bolt spring is very weak?

[9.3X62AL]

A guy I shoot with quite a bit had the "skipping" thing happen in his 4" Model 57, vintage 1975. It occurred most often when the cylinder had fired 2-3 rounds, so that one "side" of the cylinder was "heavier" than the other, and he was firing the more vigorous 41 Magnum loadings. The combined effects of of the unbalanced cylinder AND a 30-year-old bolt spring caused the issue. I replaced the bolt spring for him, and the revolver has purred ever since.

Cleaning out the bolt spring/bolt gallery area every couple years is a good idea, too.

[megasupermagnum]

This is not my gun, it is my dads. He bought it used many years ago, and as far as I know, it could have been used heavily for what it was intended (silhouette). I've heard too many things about S&W and heavy bullets, else the 320 grain SSK is awesome in a Ruger. I don't remember the gun ever having this issue before, but I don't remember it ever being shot off a rest either. I have to wonder if the relatively limp wrist-ed hold on the bags had any effect? It's odd you mention the heavier side of the cylinder, I was only loading up 5 at a time. I'll look into the bolt spring. This gun has likely not seen a deep clean in many years.

[beemer]

Not a S & W but had a Taurus 605 that the cylinder skipped and sometimes backed up. It only did it with hotter loads not with 38's. Took a while but finally figured out it was the cylinder bolt had a weak spring.

[megasupermagnum]

I just got done looking it over. I have a model 57 (41 mag version of the 29) to compare it to, and the bolt spring seems reasonably strong on both. The model 57 has never missed a beat, even with strong 230 grain loads. I measured end play on the model 29 at about .007", which I may want to take up before going farther. For giggles, I measured the model 57 end play, and found about .004"-.005". Strangely I can't hardly see or feel it on the model 57, while the model 29 has obvious end play. The gun seems to be in perfect time, and I could not see any wear on the cylinder notches, or hand. I think I'll try one more trip to the range, and if it does it again, it may be time for the gunsmith with a better eye than mine.

[MT Gianni]

While it seems odd to me that a firing pin would do this I don't believe Beagle has ever steered someone wrong. I would look into that.

[Moleman-]

My 29 was rode hard when I bought it 27 years ago. I've had the hand worked on twice and it needs it a third time. It actually needs a trip to S&W to have it gone over. Any more it's harder to find an experienced local gunsmith who really knows revolvers.

[Char-Gar]

Now you know why Smith and Wesson modified the lock work on their N frames to the "enhanced" version. Silhouette shooters were putting so much stress on the lock work that they cylinders would skip and even turn backwards. Your handgun needs the attention of a good Smith and Wesson mechanic to put it right.

[sixshot]

Char-Gar nailed it & the lengthened bolt notch is one of the first steps.

Dick

[Boogieman]

Before I would send this to S&W I remove the grips and give it a good flushing with Gun Scrubber And blow it out with high pressure air. relub with a good gun oil & dry fire about 100 times. A buildup of crud or old oil [WWD40] could be slowing things down inside

[osteodoc08]

Now you know why Smith and Wesson modified the lock work on their N frames to the "enhanced" version. Silhouette shooters were putting so much stress on the lock work that they cylinders would skip and even turn backwards. Your handgun needs the attention of a good Smith and Wesson mechanic to put it right.


Had an old 29 that I sent down the road for this issue. Should have been more patient and had it fixed. Was accurate otherwise. The cylinder latch was a known issue of that era

[megasupermagnum]

Had an old 29 that I sent down the road for this issue. Should have been more patient and had it fixed. Was accurate otherwise. The cylinder latch was a known issue of that era

I did find the issue with accuracy. It seems I was a little high on powder, and the 25-1 alloy couldn't take it. It was some of the worst leading I've been the cause of. Sizing was ok at .431", which is a snug fit in the throats, and the bore just over .429". Lube was canaruba red. The mold doesn't cast centered hollow points anyway, I did not have high hopes for accuracy. I'll probably end up buying some solid SWC bullets to try if the gun gets fixed.

[hp246]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that this situation can be shooter induced by not allowing the trigger to fully return to the forward position not allowing the sear to reset the hammer.

[megasupermagnum]

One thing that has not been mentioned is that this situation can be shooter induced by not allowing the trigger to fully return to the forward position not allowing the sear to reset the hammer.

I was shooting groups, single action off of sand bags.

[Tracy]

I had several 29s and 629s about 30 years ago; all had that problem so I finally gave up on S&W .44 Mags. None of my other N frames ever did that; only the .44 Mags.
I once mentioned the problem here and was accused by a well known member of "beating up those fine revolvers with Ruger-only loads." Which was a completely baseless accusation, btw.

[Char-Gar]

I had several 29s and 629s about 30 years ago; all had that problem so I finally gave up on S&W .44 Mags. None of my other N frames ever did that; only the .44 Mags.
I once mentioned the problem here and was accused by a well known member of "beating up those fine revolvers with Ruger-only loads." Which was a completely baseless accusation, btw.

The newer 29s and 629s with the "enhanced lockwork" will give no issues as mentioned above. I bought this one in 1992 and it is the most accurate handgun I own.

[JMax]

The condition described is called throw by. It can usually be corrected by removing the hump on the cylinder stop body(NOT) the part that engaged the cylinder stop notch in the cylinder. Learned that in S&W Revolvers Armorers school the two time I took the class when I was a LEO armorer.

[CJR]

This recoil induced cylinder skipping, on S&W 29s has been known ever since they came out. The cylinder lock bolt unlatches during recoil and the cylinder rotates backwards. This is not what you want in a critical life-threatening situation. I'd recommend you find the best smith out there for 29s and send it to him rather than S&W. The fact that this issue is still around after all these years doesn't say much for S&W's Customer Service. If S&W really wanted to solve this problem they would've recalled all 29s years ago and fixed the problem once and for all. It probably would have cost S&W $20-$50 or less/gun for the fix.

Best regards,

CJR

[megasupermagnum]

This recoil induced cylinder skipping, on S&W 29s has been known ever since they came out. The cylinder lock bolt unlatches during recoil and the cylinder rotates backwards. This is not what you want in a critical life-threatening situation. I'd recommend you find the best smith out there for 29s and send it to him rather than S&W. The fact that this issue is still around after all these years doesn't say much for S&W's Customer Service. If S&W really wanted to solve this problem they would've recalled all 29s years ago and fixed the problem once and for all. It probably would have cost S&W $20-$50 or less/gun for the fix.

Best regards,

CJR

I assume this gun was built a good 30 years ago, and it's not their fault it's never been fixed either. Like I said, my dad has owned it for 20-25 years, and I doubt he put 100 rounds through it. He only ever shot it offhand, and I'm guessing my loose grip off sand bags has to do with it. He also used to have a scope on it, which would have helped even more. I think I see what guys are saying, with that rear bolt, which is a tiny pin. That must be compressing under recoil, and with a little slop, allowing it to rotate. The spring seems reasonably strong to me. There is also some end play which can't be helping, and I should be able to fix myself. I think I'll try even lighter loads next time, and see how it does.

[Char-Gar]

I assume this gun was built a good 30 years ago, and it's not their fault it's never been fixed either. Like I said, my dad has owned it for 20-25 years, and I doubt he put 100 rounds through it. He only ever shot it offhand, and I'm guessing my loose grip off sand bags has to do with it. He also used to have a scope on it, which would have helped even more. I think I see what guys are saying, with that rear bolt, which is a tiny pin. That must be compressing under recoil, and with a little slop, allowing it to rotate. The spring seems reasonably strong to me. There is also some end play which can't be helping, and I should be able to fix myself. I think I'll try even lighter loads next time, and see how it does.

No, you don't get it. The bolt is not the pin in the recoil shield that is activated by the cylinder thumb latch. The bolt is the oblong piece in the bottom of thy frame cylinder window that rises when the hammer is cocked and goes into the notches on the side of the cylinder to keep the cylinder from turning when in battery.

I am not trying to be demeaning, just truthful, but you can't fix it yourself as you are not familiar with revolver mechanics. Pay somebody who does to do the job.

[megasupermagnum]

No, you don't get it. The bolt is not the pin in the recoil shield that is activated by the cylinder thumb latch. The bolt is the oblong piece in the bottom of thy frame cylinder window that rises when the hammer is cocked and goes into the notches on the side of the cylinder to keep the cylinder from turning when in battery.

I am not trying to be demeaning, just truthful, but you can't fix it yourself as you are not familiar with revolver mechanics. Pay somebody who does to do the job.

Just the right amount of honesty. I know a good gunsmith about an hour away, although I'm not sure of his knowledge of revolvers.

[CJR]

Mega,

Do yourself a life-saving favor. Don't pick a smith because he is close to you. Pick the best smith for 29s you can find and get it done right.

Best regards,

CJR

[osteodoc08]

Mega,

Do yourself a life-saving favor. Don't pick a smith because he is close to you. Pick the best smith for 29s you can find and get it done right.

Best regards,

CJR

Sage advice. Call cylinder and slide or other reputable Smith smith.

[megasupermagnum]

Mega,

Do yourself a life-saving favor. Don't pick a smith because he is close to you. Pick the best smith for 29s you can find and get it done right.

Best regards,

CJR

I'll have to ask him about smith and wesson specifically, but he is very smart. I must not get out much, I don't consider an hour drive close. The guys just down the road from me are the ones to avoid. I must have called them a half dozen times with relatively easy jobs. Each time I was met with "Ahhhhhh...we can't."

[JMtoolman]

JMax, would you give a bit of an explanation on the removing of the material on the bolt. I also have this happen on my 629 and have had the fireing pin make dents on the cases outside of the primer diameter. This means the bolt isn't even in the notch when the hammer is released. How much material is removed, and is the bolt spring replaced with a heaver spring? Many thanks, the toolman.

[Harter66]

Super
I have a note pinned at eye level on the bench . It says " keep it simple stupid , clean it first !" . I can't begin to count the $1000 mechanical problems solved with a $5 wash .

My Dad had an old Colts sportsman aka 1917 . He got it out one trip and it would throw over and stop short taking 9 shots to shoot 6 rounds . I fussed with it some and finally just took the grips off and put it in a pan full of GI CLP overnight , cycling it 20-25 times in the morning still immersed delivered more crud in the pan than I would have thought possible to get stuck in on or around the gun . Fortunately it is built up and the side plate has been off many times before me . I pulled the plate and washed it out with my best can of WD40 and replaced the plate . I let soak on the plate side for the rest of the day and got more crud out of it and again washed more gunk out with the plate off . 2 more soak and cycles and it was pretty much as good as it was going to get . I noticed something out of place where the barrel extension meets the top strap so I got a pick and poked at I some . Turns out there's a gap between the top strap and the barrel threads on that pistol and actually a fairly large gap .
After knocking that gob of lead out of the frame I elected my first crane removal . More crud washed out and the amount washed out of the cylinder axle was just gross .

After the deep cleaning that was probably 30 yr over due , that pistol is celebrating it's centennial somewhere as I type this . Once clean with steel exposed that probably hadn't been exposed in 40 yr or more it shot like a new gun . When I got my Smith 1917 that was the first order of business and Ms September 1918 thanks me for it because she was harboring about a tablespoon of solids also .

As a second point after a liberal solvent bath with soak time , I'd check the bolt spring but not until after I shot it .......says the guy with half a dozen 1858 and 1860 trigger springs in the parts box .

Don't underestimate the ability of dust bunnies to become dirt rabbits and eat the works or at least fill them up with "smart pills" .

Always deep clean before you spend the money on parts or service because the service guy will be happy to bill you for cleaning .

[beemer]

Harter, you hit on something there. I pulled S & W out of the safe just this week, it's one that gets shot very little. The gun was almost locked up with gummy oil and will need a deep clean before it can be shot. I wish I could remember what I used to oil it but I guess any mineral oil will harden over time.

A good cleaning is first priority when a firearm malfunctions, not always the problem but rule out simple things first.

Dave

[CJR]

Mega,

You need to search for and read John Taffin's article, "21. A Half Century of the Model 29.htm" . It documents the Model 29 cylinder unlocking under recoil.

Best regards,

CJR