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krag35
11-24-2005, 11:46 PM
How hard would it be to have a winchester 94 in 357 mag rebarreled to 256 Win Mag. Or would a "copy" of a '92 be a better choice to start with? Since putting receiver sights on my 30-30 And 444, I'm thinking I NEED a little lever varmit gun. I know marlin built the 1894 CL in 25-20, and that would be OK, except I prefer the Winchester. Guess I'll need a 9422 while I'm at it.

krag35

shooter93
11-25-2005, 12:26 AM
I would say the 92 might be a better choice. The 256 is a good cartridge. I'm curious obout your nick too...any significance to the Krag 35? I built a 35 Krag on a Krag action so I'm curious. Thanks

9.3X62AL
11-25-2005, 01:41 AM
The conversion of the Marlin 1894C in 357 to 256 via re-barrel might be a less complicated route, if you could live with one. My travails with the 25-20 and cast boolits haved largely concluded, after finding a few accurate loads that approach the accuracy of the FLGC's--but don't quite meet or exceed it. I do greatly hope the 32-20 Marlin lever critter is more compliant than its smaller-bored cousin. So far, it appears that way.

krag35
11-25-2005, 02:32 AM
shooter93;
I do have a fetish for Krags, and I did make a dummy cartrige with a 300 gr FMJ and a necked up 30/40 case. However since I struck out finding a smith that would rebarrel a krag for ANYTHING, I dropped it there. I have the numbers around somewhere, but I figured it would make one HECK of a cast bullet shooter. I have a NRA sporter that shoots 311284's like they have eyes, and a '98 carbine I got from my Dad that tends to lead real quick, so it gets Hornaday 220's. I may have to revisit the 35/40 krag idea one day.

Al;
Why would the Marlin be less complicated? I pulled 2 94's apart this week to drill and tap for receiver sights, not that intricate, just a pain :-) My dislike for Marlin levers comes form a 444 that bloodied my nose on the firstshot, and tended to do so every time I didn't remember to do the 03 grip thing. I had a Savage 23 in 25-20 that I'm still kicking my hind end for selling off. I didn't shoot any cast in it, but with FLGC's THE POWDER was Aac 1680. With Remington 86 grainers that rifle was a tack driver. I don't plan on pushing this 256 past 25-20 balistics, so any advice you have would be appreciated.

I have been thinking while Elk hunting this year. 90% of the critters I have shot (big game) have been within 100 yds, and 90% of them have been within 50 yds. I guess that is going against the grain with popular thought, but my 06 with a 2.5X scope has been out of style since I started using it 15 years ago. I find it way more satisfying to see the "OH CRAP" look in a critters eyes when they discover you in their "livingroom" , than to snipe them so they die before they hear the shot. Hopefully next years Elk will fall to a 429649 out of a 444, or a 58 cal. RB out of a T/C Renegade.

krag35

Scrounger
11-25-2005, 07:28 AM
Krag35, the Krag action is supposed to rebarrel easily to .444 Marlin, according to Frank de Haas (?). He says only a little magazine work needs to be done. I'd kill for one of these!

Bret4207
11-25-2005, 09:19 AM
Buy a cheap post '64 94 and rebarrel to 25-35. Load to waht range you want. No feed problems and no hard to find brass, plus you can use longer boolits for medium game if you so choose.

9.3X62AL
11-25-2005, 09:56 PM
Bret's idea (the 25-35) wouldn't be a bad one, but a lot of the original barrels in that caliber run a 1-8" twist, and those can be a little challenging with cast boolits--sorta like a 6.5 x 55's quick twist.

My preference for Marlins is not a strong one, but the maintenence ease provided by their simpler take-down appeals to me. I prefer whenever possible to clean a rifle from the breech end, and getting there with the Marlin is easier than with the Win 94.

FWIW.....I have three 25 caliber lever guns, the 25-20 (Marlin 1894CL), a flatband Win 94 in 25-35, and a Savage 99 in 250. All three are pretty nice rat zappers, but have very differing tastes and requirements for boolits and loads.

Jumptrap
11-25-2005, 11:04 PM
Okay, I have a question:

If you could choose a twist rate for .25 caliber cast (25-35)....what would it be? I don't know if a 1:12" would be fast enough....but whatever the slowest rate that would stabilize 60-100 grain bullets between 1500-2000 fps is what I'd want. of course, I'd rather err on the side of more than enough than not enough. I am assuming 1:10" would work fine but would choose 1:12" if it would work.

felix
11-25-2005, 11:36 PM
12 twist would work very fine, Jump. ... felix

shooter93
11-26-2005, 12:00 AM
We did re-barell two Krags to the 35 caliber. It moves a 225 gr. bullet aroud 2150 fps with no pressure problems. I may do a singles shot in either 35 or 375 just for cast bullets. We did one in 444 to and it takes more than a little magazine work.

Jumptrap
11-26-2005, 12:25 AM
12 twist would work very fine, Jump. ... felix

Thanks felix, that's all settled now....time to save my coins.

9.3X62AL
11-26-2005, 12:36 AM
Jumptrap--

As long as the boolit weight (length, actually) isn't more than 100 grains, I would think the 1-12" would work fine. The Savage 99 x 250 I mentioned above has the 1-14" pitch, and shoots 100 grain spitzers and NEI spire points VERY well, velocities ranging from 1500 FPS (cast) to 2800 FPS (j-word). I'm thinking the 1-8" twist in the 25-35 WCF might be a bit much, even with the longer 117 grain flatnoses the caliber is factory-loaded with. It does shoot the Hornady 117's very well, though--and keeps the NEI 114 FN shooting well as long as speeds are below 1600 FPS. Run them faster, and things go to hell in a hurry.

Jumptrap
11-26-2005, 01:05 AM
Jumptrap--

As long as the boolit weight (length, actually) isn't more than 100 grains, I would think the 1-12" would work fine. The Savage 99 x 250 I mentioned above has the 1-14" pitch, and shoots 100 grain spitzers and NEI spire points VERY well, velocities ranging from 1500 FPS (cast) to 2800 FPS (j-word). I'm thinking the 1-8" twist in the 25-35 WCF might be a bit much, even with the longer 117 grain flatnoses the caliber is factory-loaded with. It does shoot the Hornady 117's very well, though--and keeps the NEI 114 FN shooting well as long as speeds are below 1600 FPS. Run them faster, and things go to hell in a hurry.

Al my pal,

That's music to my ears. I've had a newer Marlin 336 awaiting conversion to 25-35 and it's time to decide on what twist to order. The last time I had a lever rifle rebarreled and the barrel blued to match...it set me back 500 shekels to have Dennis Olson do the work. He's a fine smith but a damned ways from cheap. Seems a shame to me to have to pay twice what the rifle can be bought for to have a barrel screwed on. I got tired of writing pipefitters and getting qoutes all over the map and just decided the safest route is to just mail Olson the gun, tell him what I want and to send a bill when it's done. You just gotta want it bad enough to pay the price.

9.3X62AL
11-26-2005, 01:34 AM
Jumptrap--

I came close to doing the same thing a few years back, and still have the 336 action sitting in the gun safe awaiting whatever inspiration strikes me--likely in 38-55, but we'll see. I found the flatband 94 in 25-35 via a guy I met at the old L.A. Fairgrounds Gun Show in 1999, and drove 450 miles to get it. It sure can shoot. I had settled on 1-10" twist because it is the most commonly encountered, but that was moot once the 94 showed up. The 1-12" might give better accuracy with the shorter rat-zapping boolits.

As long as Hornady keeps making the 117 grain RN, the caliber will remain a viable deer taker. There might be a custom bulletmaker cobbling up game bullets somewhere, but I'm not familiar with one. I've meant to try the Hornady 60 grain FN and Speer 75 grain FN in the rifle, but the NEI castings do well enough on jacks and rats......there's no real need. Those long, flat-fronted castings just JACK THEM UP. I don't know if the rapid twist rate contributes anything to lethality, but whatever is at work when those "lead pencils" connect leaves a lasting and immediate impression.

Jumptrap
11-26-2005, 02:47 AM
Allan,

I have no doubt the 25-35 will whack a deer.......dad had a cousin in Montana who used his on elk back in the 40's.

The smaller pills would be what I'd cast and shoot anyway. I'd like to have a mold similar to the 25720 but with a GC, weighing about 80 grains. Probably be all I'd need. The same bullet at 100-115 would make a good heavy.

The 25-35 would just be critter getter anyway....crows, groundhogs, coyotes and foxes.....but a deer would be wise to stay out of the sights too......ought to be great turkey round as well. I shot 2 gobblers at about 275 yards with my 223 a couple years ago....through the chest with 50 gr. PSP's and they never hurt a thing...made a good sized hole out the back...but never lost any breast meat...which is all i want on a wild turkey. I'd bet the 25 would put a bird down good and proper with minimal meat loss.

Singletree
11-26-2005, 12:05 PM
Jumptrap,
If I could add to your post, I'm shooting a 25-35 in a non-traditional gun. T/C Contender,15" bull barrel, 1 in 10 inch twist, 3 X 9 scope. The bullet is cast from the RCBS 257-120-SP using a gas check. Using 21 gr. of IMR 4895 it should be getting around 1600, I haven't chronoed the thing yet, but there is a good bit of muzzle rise with this load. The group of five shots @ fifty yards, benched ,of course, went into 3/8ths X 3/4". The vertical spread was because I only used one fouling shot from a clean and oiled bore. The max load listed is 22.5 gr. and I would like to get up to perhaps 1800fps with this bullet if accuracy permits. Need to work with it more to see.
So far I like the cartridges based on the 30-30 head size for cast bullets. I have a later Savage 99 action on the shelf that may turn into a 219. I'm sure you will find the 25-35 will be to your liking.

9.3X62AL
11-26-2005, 01:25 PM
Jumptrap's description of duties for his pending 25-35 fits my own pretty closely. I think it would work fine on deer with the Hornadys, but mostly it's a small critter machine. I'll get around to trying both #257420 and #257312 sooner or later, if only to find something that creates a bit less carnage for edible game. Alas, CA is "shotgun only" for wild turkeys.

Jumptrap
11-26-2005, 06:11 PM
LOL!

Ky. is a shotgun only state for turks too. problem was I had my bifocals on and at that distance I thought they were deer :).

Speaking of the 223.....I like mine fine, but have a hankering to get another 22-250.....I cut my teeth with one and have just never gotten over what that round will do.....closest thing to a lightning rod I ever had in my hands.

9.3X62AL
11-26-2005, 09:00 PM
J-Trap......

Your last post inadvertently gave 2 of the reasons the 256 Magnum never took off, and why the 25-20 is kinda going the way of 8-track tape decks--the 223 and the 22-250. If the 256 were put up in a really accurate platform--a Ruger #1/#3 or some kind of bolt rifle, I imagine it would drive tacks with boolits it likes. My recent affair with the 25-20 and cast pretty much guarantees there will be NO 256's on my horizon--2 of the 25-20's contain enough aggravation to last me into the next decade.

I've had lots better luck accuracy-wise with the 223 than with the 22-250, overall.

Four Fingers of Death
11-26-2005, 10:21 PM
Jumptrap, we gonna have a long talk about target identification. I really like the 223, excellent for small to medium game and it seems to nearly always be exceptionally accurate. Haven't had any experience with the 22/250 (once a Swift man, always a Swift man), but they are extraordinarly popular here in Australia.

Blackwater
11-26-2005, 11:48 PM
I have the .256 in a 10" oct. Contender, and love it. It "whacks" whatever it hits pretty hard, for a small caliber, and I wouldn't hesitate to try a deer with it given a decent bullet. Haven't shot any cast in it yet, though. Have looked at the Lyman 65 & 88 gr. moulds, though, and thought long and hard. Have to darn many calibers to get all the moulds at once, darn it!

That lil' .256 is just a really, really pleasant and satisfying round, IMO. The muzzle blast isn't as sharp as the Hornet or .221's, and when you shoot at something in the water, like turtle heads, the difference in the water that's splashed tells you it hit a LOT harder than the .22's. I'd really love a little Martini Cadet in .256. Now THAT would be a WINNER!