43 spanish from..?

[Somehippy]

Hi,

I reccently acquired an agentine roller in 43 spanish (bottlenecked). Trouble is being in canada, I can't get any ready made brass up here without the expense of an export permit and other nonsense... Well i can, but its bertram and $6 a peice. As for 348 wcf, 44-77,44-90 to form from, none to be found, at all. I can get 50-110wcf, apparently a parent/relation to .348wcf, however the bases are a bit lare as well. I heard of folks forming 44-77 from 50-90 sharps (never did find out sharps or wcf, not much to be said for 50-90 wcf?), so picked some of them up, however the bases are a bit large above the rim and the rims will obviously need to be turned down. I also picked up some 458wm for las resort, turning belts off and swaging rims on via this method: http://www.dave-cushman.net/shot/44-06_rimmed_douglas.html .

The .458wm are just about perfect base diameter, just need darn rims, the 50-90 im leery of being able the shave off/squeeze down the bases .04" safely. I've scoured the interweb the last couple weeks looking for an alternative to paying $6 a pop for brass of what seems to be questionable quality. So I thought Id post here because thats where most the threads for 43 spanish searches come up :D .

Any opinions or suggestions? I have also heard of people using 45-90 as well but the rims are small and the case is undersized at the base (some people remedy by wrapping tape?).

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hell Somehippy,

Track of the Wolf has them listed, not sure about crossing the border.

https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1171/1/CASE-43-SPANISH

AntiqueSledMan

[Bent Ramrod]

Don’t have any direct experience in this particular case, but the Buffalo Arms .44-77 cases made from .348 shells hold up very well, at black powder pressures. I’ve loaded around 200 at least five times and only one or two have taken early retirement. I would guess, without any supporting data, that other modern made .50 caliber base shells would also hold up to mild loadings. You’d have to turn a few down, section them and see how much web is left.

The .43 Spanish Bertram cases I bought for my Peabody (at an outrageous $2/pop back then) cracked the bodies of 8 out of 20 on the first firing. Later purchases, which I annealed the snot out of, seemed to have held up better, but I do lose a case or so every reloading session. Don’t know what to say; Bertram has at least, IME, gotten better with time, but also much more costly. The Peabody is at least rare enough so one can rationalize the expensive wherewithal to get it shooting, but I know several Argentine Rolling Block owners that will never shoot their guns because 20 rounds of handloaded ammunition winds up costing more than the rifle did.

The current saga of Jamison/Captech/Whatever is a good object lesson in the tribulations involved in trying to make components that were on every hardware store shelf a century or so ago. Full marks to Bertram for at least stepping up to the plate.

If you do have none of the standard cases available, but can reform .458 and it works, you might try turning some brass washers of the right size and staking or swaging them into the extractor groove of the .458s. There are methods discussed in Nonte’s book on cartridge conversions where rimmed brass sleeves of appropriate size can be fireformed onto slightly undersized shells like the .45-70. Later conversion books do not mention such mods, no doubt because of the liability lawyers and the tort system. You are really (really!) on your own here.

If your extractor can catch what there is of the rim on the .458s after the belt is turned off, the headspace can be adjusted, for these shells only, by putting a shim in the rim seat of the chamber. I did this with a .38 caliber shotgun that had been made back in the era of folded-head shells. Modern .38-55 rims and bases fit, except for rim thickness. I soldered a piece of shim stock onto a piece of scrap, chucked it up in the lathe, turned a washer that fit, cut away a section for the extractor, melted the washer off, and soldered it into the rim seat. It is unlikely that I’ll ever encounter folded-head .38 shotshells; your mod would have to be kept in mind in case .44 based shells come back on the market.

Sorry for the paucity of info and choices that I can come up with. I would think that somebody up there, Elwood Epps or somebody, would have an import license and could get you some Bertram or .348 shells. I have to say that while the .44-77 has been fairly easy to get shooting well, my .43 Spanish does 4 inches at a hundred yards on a good day. The line of least resistance might be to reline or rebarrel your rolling block to some more available cartridge.

[iShoot17]

Somehippy - I don’t know the availability in Canada, but I was recently notified of 348WCF brass showing as “In Stock”. I saw it at Midway and Graf’s. Midway still has some available. I don’t know about getting it across the border, but maybe there is some hope that some of the brass will get up to your local stores? I don’t know if Hornady exports or not, just letting you know that it is being made again!

[Somehippy]

Thanks for the replies, bent ramrod, you give me confidence im on the right track exploring my options lol. I ordered some 45-90 brass to try, seems to be what people have most luck trying (i seen an earlier thread and pmd the op about using 45-100 brass, with which he was having success). From all my readings getting brass up here from down there is a PITA, and a pricey one too. Unless I acquaint myself with someone willing to ship "brass tubes"...

Good news to hear about the hornady .348s, hopefully some suppliers up here get some.

Gonna get this ol girl shootin one way or another, even if it means a rebarrel down the road.

[LeroyvdH]

I got a case annealer if you need one. I'll bring it down on the 7th when I come to town. Like to see this girl dance. Text me if you need something.
Looked at track's site.... Ole red flag.. Not for export outside the US...
Leroy

[Somehippy]

Might need that, thanks leroy. I emailed totw, so hopefully they can assist. As of yet i got brass tube ordered to either put rims on 458wm and some to sleeve up the base of 45-90s. I sized a 45-90 last night, it fit ok, just enough wobble at the base to slip past the extractor. With a wrap of tape it extracted well. So im thinking a 3/8~" belt of 17/32x0.014 brass tube should take up the slack and should form ahead of that ok, as per Donelly's cartridge conversion book.