.25-20 vs. .256 Winchester vs. .24-45 Sharps...

[richhodg66]

I like to squirrel hunt with cast in centerfires. I have the itch to get a small .25, pretty sure it will be just getting a barrel for my Contender rifle.

I have dies for the .25-20 and .256 though have never loaded for either (yeah, I'm a hoarder) and even a couple of suitable molds from my dad. I do have a small amount of brass for the .25-20 which I know is hard to come by. Pretty sure I could form .256 brass and obviously, brass for the .25-45 is easy. Looks like the only twist rate I could get for .25s from MGM is one in ten which seems fast.

I plan to load these with low velocity, flat nose bullets for small game. Not sure this will really do anything my cast loads in .22 Hornet won't do, but I want a .25 for some reason.

Thoughts?

[3leggedturtle]

I have a 256WM 24” Contender. Love it, haven’t shot cast out of it yet. I make my brass out of 221FB fur a rimless 256. If I were to do it over I would go with the 25/223 aka 25/45 sharps. Also had a 25/20, liked it, shot cast ok, but just prefer a 30/30 or 357 from a lever action more. Todd/3leg

If this is strictly a cast boolit barrel, I would send in some dummy rounds to MGM and have chamber made for them in 25/20, with a 20-22” tapered barrel. YMMV

[35remington]

Some of these cartridges have shorter necks than others. Due to variances in the body length of many cast bullets, and how the throat of the barrel and the leade are cut, short necked cartridges may be limited to short light cast bullets.

A throat that shoots jacketed decently may shoot cast horribly. Know what is needed in that regard for a cast bullet gun.

If squirrel hunting and up to coyote sized game up to 150 yards is all that is desired the long neck and smaller case capacity of the 25-20 make it better than the other two. The only drawback is case availability, but if you can score some quantity (I am fortunate in having over 1500 with 500 of those being unused) it is the way to go.

[Jedman]

Hi Rich, I am a hoarder also, I have dies for a 25-20 and 256 WM but no rifle in either caliber yet.
For your purpose I think the 25-20 is the better choice.
The smaller the powder capacity is better. If I were still a dedicated squirrel Hunter I would have a wildcat cartridge for it, probably a necked down 32 H&R to .243 to .277 or something like a 270 REN. The only reason is because at this point in my life I can.

Jedman

[35remington]

Incidentally I have had two 25-20 Contender barrels. My current is an OTT (no longer available) but it shoots cast very well and the 75 VMax into bugholes at fifty yards.

Specify a cast friendly throat. Your low velocity preference put the 25-20 ahead, yet there is still plenty more throttle available especially in a Contender. Exceeding the lowish psi the 25-20 is normally loaded to in the reloading manuals can be done yet still have decent case life if the chamber is not overlarge. A custom barrel will see to it.

If the TC Custom Shop was still making barrels in 25-20 I would tell you do NOT order one from them! That was one of the worst and most ill suited 25-20 chambers I have ever seen. Get someone that knows what they are doing.

It is not true that with proper love and attention you can get a crappy chamber and throat to shoot cast bullets. Bad cannot be overcome.

[ajjohns]

35remington, for the 25/20, is the MGM barrel ok to use? I'm a firm believer in the 25/20. As you said years ago, everyone needs one, they just don't know it yet.

[35remington]

It is fine but specify the barrel must be throated favorably for lead.

[ajjohns]

Gotcha. Thank you. My 92 Winnie is fun, but I think it's finally time to work this one out to full potential.

[earlmck]

25/20 for cast for sure. And brass is not a problem: easily made from 32/20. Start with a perfectly round case mouth to avoid "wrinkled neck syndrome", and I like to neck down to an intermediate (I use 7mm because I have that handy) but I hear some folks do OK going direct to 25.

[ajjohns]

Though I haven't got into cast in a crazy amount, I love the 25/20. It's so efficient! Does a great job on anything within sane range my tang sight will allow me to see clearly. Kinda why I want to try a Contender barrel. I'd like to scope it and take full advantage. If you folks haven't read 35Remington's posts on the marlin owners sight, you owe it to yourself to do so. It puts the 25/20 in a whole new light.

[Jeff Michel]

I have a contender carbine in 25-20, great for small game if you throttle it back a tad.

[jwhite]

I shoot a lot of cast boolits in both a 25-20 Marlin Classic as well as a 25-45 Sharps built on a Ruger Hawkeye action with Pacnor barrel. The little Marlin lever gun is probably my favorite rifle to take for a walk though, accurate, light and carries well. The 25-45 Ruger is a much heavier and not so handy rifle but shoots amazing, it also has the benefit of a VX3 scope versus the williams peep sight of the Marlin which makes precision shooting much easier. I do find loading for the 25-45 much easier and there is an unlimited amount of .223 cases laying around for easier case forming, a lee collet neck sizing die makes much quicker work for reloading once the initial forming is done. Hard to go wrong with either one I guess.

[Good Cheer]

25-20 is way hard to beat.
But I gotta ask, anybody using a longer neck .256 made with maximum brass?

[Harter66]

I'm actually thinking on a rimless 256 win in an Axis but the 25-45 has an edge there too . Simple elegant solution .
A Green Mountain 27" round blank in 1-10" , 25 cal is $111 . You could surely get everything out of the little 223 based case that can be had at 26" .

For about $600 you can snag a Savage/Steven 223 get 2 blanks fitted and have a 256 rimless and a 25-45 switch barrel . Then sell the 223 barrel to pay a blank .

With the 10 twist in the long barrel it should handle the 120 gr cast bullets but the 100 gr is for sure . 2.5-3 Unique should keep them it under 1100 fps .......a 150 gr in a 6.8 has to go down to 3.5 and a 62 gr in 223 has to go to 2.5 and is still at 1240 fps . That'll get you about 3-5x the 22 LR energy and a very quiet load .

The 25-20 of course has the option of a companion pistol .
The 25-45-87 HP can be turned up to 27-2800 fps with a jacket and probably 22-2400 in cast up to 100 gr .

Not that I've given this any thought at all recently .......

[FLHTC]

I have both the 25/20 and the 25 TCU or 25/45 Sharps and love them both. My 25/20 is a T/C Contender and the TCU barrel is an MGM for my Encore. My Contender barrel has a deep throat and doesn’t do well with cast but the MGM barrel will shoot either cast or jacketed well. I use N200 and AA2200 in both calibers but considering the chamber on the Contender barrel, I’d have to go with the 25/45 and brass can be found everywhere. I sold much of my 25/20 brass when the price hit $1.00 each so even though I have about 1,000 cases left, I’d still have to go with the 25/45. One hole groups are common with jacketed at 100 yards and with a clean bore, ditto for cast bullets at 25 yards. I use gas checked bullets with carnuba red and keep the velocity under 1,500 fps. Like I said, I love both calibers but with brass so hard to come by and not being cast friendly, I’d have to go with the 25/45. One pass with a sizing die and your case is formed.

[rbuck351]

I have a Win 92 in 25/20 that shoots about 1 1/2" @100yds with the lyman 69gr cast boolit at 1950 fps. It is at the top of my fun list for a pack around small critter rifle. I also have a Contender 14" 256W . I haven't had time to wring it out good yet but it's showing promise. With the choice of one or the other I would go with the 25/20.

[PBSmith]

You lads are causing me severe indigestion with your talk of the .25-20. Decades ago I had a beauty in Win 92, let it go for what I thought was a good price, had a shoebox full of Lyman tong tools, molds, etc. to go with it. I couldn't get it to shoot but ignorance might have been the problem.

That gun, along with an original 1873 Trapdoor carbine, are at the top of my weep/moan/groan list.

Be that as it may - do the Win 92's in .25-20 generally have any particular reputation for shooting cast? rbuck has certainly done well. Are his experiences with the caliber and model of rifle typical? Were chambers/throats of the Model 92 favorable for cast bullets, or is it impossible to generalize?

Thanks
PBSmith

[donald duck]

I have a barrel in .25 TCU or .257 TCU made by MGM and love it. Load the Lyman 65 grain bullet and cast my own. Brass is easily formed and very plentiful. Use a gas checkalso. My loads are mild and caccurate at 25 yds. Have all writtern down in load book in basement. Also like the .256 and form brass from .357 Starline brass.

[beagle]

Go with the .25-20 by all means. I've shot both the .256 Win Mag in a Contender and then I have a re-barreled M1894 Marlin with a full magazine and a 1-12 twist barrel equipped with receiver, open and scope sights as I prefer. The .256 brass is a PITA. The .25-20 cases last a long time if you don't want to hot rod it. Deer with the .25-20? With a 90 grain HP bullet, I don't see why not. More power that some calibers being used. My favorite is the 257420 Lyman hollow pointed. Great little "walking around" rifle. Had it made back when "slick willie" had his 10 shot magazine ban in effect. My gunsmith laughed as it was actually illegal as it held more than 10 rounds. Go with the .25-20./beagle

[georgewxxx]

At a gun show many years ago I spotted a Kimber M-82 in 25-20 that I drooled over, but already had 3 25-20's at home. That dealer happened to be at lunch so I though I'd come back later and make a offer. Two hours later when I returned the gun was gone. I don't remember the sticker price but Kimber only made about 200 of them, now they push three grand. I'll stick with my 92 & 43 Winchesters. I sold the Remington pump as the groups never came close to either Winchesters. 9 grains of 2400 under the 257312 will make you smile.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

The 25-20 WCF is A LOT EASIER to form from 32-20 Starline than the 256 Mag is from any brass, 357 or Prvi 22 Jet. Forming 256 is always a multi-step process. Forming 25-20 WCF is a careful resize, maybe first thru your 25-20 seater than the full-length resizer.

[Three44s]

I bought an MGM Contender carbine barrel in 25-20 Win. from Ed’s TC a while back.

I am also a hoarder and have not gotten to cast yet. I have been working with a jword however, the Speer 87 gr. TNT hp. In a single shot there are no concerns about pointed slugs.

Three44s

[BAGTIC]

If you want a low velocity cast bullet load why a 25?

I have an H&R in 32 H&R but I have been thinking about another with smaller case, perhaps a 32 ACP.

I don't believe the extra case volume in necessarily a bad thing in a low velocity small game gun as it permits using bulkier faster burning powders such as RD, GD, Bullseye at higher load densities, more complete combustion, and with less muzzle pressure for a quite gun.

[donald duck]

As I mentioned above, I am very pleased with my MGM Barrel in .257 TCU. Favorite load is 9.5 grains of Alliant Reloader 7 behind the cast 65 Grain Lyman cast bullet.

[3leggedturtle]

I'm actually thinking on a rimless 256 win in an Axis but the 25-45 has an edge there too . Simple elegant solution........

I made my Rimless 256 out of 221 Fireball brass and put in a 223 extractor for my Contender carbine. Cute little cartridge. Haven’t made any cast loads for it yet even tho I have boolits for it. Todd