"Buckshot Is For Bucks" circa 1957

[RMc]

In the 1950s buckshot did not exactly have a stellar reputation, but in states like New Jersey buckshot was the only legal method of taking deer. Indeed, there were even myths regarding the best choke for buckshot, as the author clearly shows. But the crux of the article revolves around a New Jersey gunsmith who found a better way.

Take a moment or two to read this mid-20th century buckshot tale and then let's kick it around a bit.

GUNS Magazine July 1957

Scroll down to page 33.

https://gunsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/G0757.pdf

[Hogtamer]

I have never bought into the 30" circle for starters and by my standards for buckshot even the improved patterns they achieved are crummy. A 12" circle more nearly reflects killing pattern. And of course anyone who shoots at deer at 80 much less 140 yds with buckshot ought not be in the woods. I applaud their efforts though and there are still things to remember. A 2 pellet stack seems to provide the least turmoil up the barrel. And patterning your load is the only way to determine how it performs out of your gun/choke. Also with the 2 pellet stack a full choke is better. Hard shot, properly fitted in a shotcup with a little buffer works to great advantage. I shot many modern factory loads in my testing that performed poorly that do not utilize these modern advantages. My "perfect" load is 6-2 pellet stacks of #1 buck moving at about 1350 fps using a slow powder (Steel) that will put an average 8 pellets in a 12" circle at 50 yds. Of course if you can't hit your target you are sunk to start with! Yes a deer with 8 pellets behind the shoulder can travel a ways without a blood trail but he will be dead at the end of that trail. Not far, usually. If you need 80 or 100 yds out of a shotgun work on your slug loads. Thanks for the look at that great old magazine Ralph!

[JBinMN]

I am still reading the mag, & too soon to comment, but thanks for sharing it!
:)

[dverna]

Makes me glad I do not need to use buckshot to kill deer where I live. My only use for it is for close in encounters with two legged critters. Some of the coyote hunters here use buckshot but ranges are typically under 50 yards.

[megasupermagnum]

I wish I could use buckshot for deer. As a young hunter it would have helped, and even now, I'd take it over a slug. I hunt thick swamps, shots are usually under 40 yards, and you get about 2 seconds before they are gone.

[RMc]

"STEPCHILD of the ammo industry is the buckshot shell for deer. It has acquired such a poor reputation as a deer stopper that many states have legislated against its use."
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Consider that one of the better 9 pellet factory 00B patterns, in this 1950s article, revealed only 5 hits in 24 inches at 40 yards. Such a pattern would be considered pathetic by todays "in the know" buckshot hunters. Only the worst of the "el cheapo" factory buckshot on the market today would rival this low level of pattern performance.

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"...with 000 Haelig buckshot shells. In the Remington 30 inch barrel mentioned, five of the 10-pellet load landed on or within the 12 inch vital circle, and four more hit inside the 24 inch area."
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The simple combination of cast pellets, (presumably harder), in a 2x2 stack pattern made quite a notable difference at 40 yards when compared to the factory fodder of the time. Yes, I cringed when 80 to 100 yard "throw shots" were mentioned. Yet, I have read of worse in other mid-20th century hunting tomes where-in the "proud hunter" undoubtedly pointed his bead sighted, slug loaded, smoothbore at the moon and managed to spine a deer somewhere well past the distance between opposing football goal posts!

For what it's worth, whenever a hunting tale mentions someone taking shot at say 140 paces, I just assume the strides are closer to two feet than 3 feet. So translated, that 140 paces becomes "only" 90 or so yards! Somewhat deflates the story though!

[GoodOlBoy]

I used buckshot in an old single shot 20 very successfully when I was a young man. In point of fact I never lost a deer down in the river and creek bottoms with it. The people I would usually hear tell of how worthless buckshot was were the same ones that would bang away at a buck across a corn field with a shotgun at 150-200 yards with it. These were the same folk that would say you couldn't use a 32-20 for deer, and anything less than a 10 gauge wouldn't take duck and goose.... they say ignorance is bliss... well there are a whole heap of blissful people in this old world....

Reading the article now, thanks for posting it!

God Bless, and One Love

GoodOlBoy

[6pt-sika]

My buckshot and slug concoctions along with new to me rifles are what keep me deer hunting each season .

Granted I don't exactly use buckshot in the way this fellow was describing .

[SuperBlazingSabots]

Greetings RMc, First of all Thank you for posting that "Buckshot Is For Bucks" circa 1957
I really enjoyed reading it in no hurry, I took my sweet time while enjoying my tea.
In India we used LG's ( Buck shots ) on every animals except Elephants, the poor farmers only had double shotguns often loaded with buck shots to protect their farm from the herds of Elephants and would often shoot LG's above the Elephant heads to scare them off ! !
Just like Great John Wayne did in Hatari movie to scare off the Elephant herd. ( Saw that great movie at least a dozen times )
When faced with Tigers and Leopards at close range at night would use LG's.

We all should try loading them and keep them handy.

Best regards,
Ajay Madan
Super Blazing Sabots

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

Nifty ole article. I read the magazine from cover to cover too!

Just as the author of the article found, I have found buckshot loads with two pellets to a layer perform better than three to a layer. And, just as the author found, cast pellets perform better than swaged. No doubt due to being much harder. Casting buckshot is tedious; a labor of love.

[Moleman-]

Especially liked the gun ads. Would love to go back in time with the money in our savings account and order up a couple semi truckloads.

[EMC45]

I have experimented with .31 caliber "buck" stacked 3 rows of 9 shot through a full RemChoke over 30gr. HS6. They did very well. I wrote about it here earlier. I put 24(IIRC) pellets in about 18 inch circle at around 30 yards. Beyond that it opened up. I think in a deer blind or stand it would do nicely.

[6pt-sika]

I'm supposed to arrive home tomorrow around 1 or 2 PM I may very well scoop up some buckshot and slug handloads I have for some of my my 10 gauge doubles and try them in a new to me 10 gauge Parker EH . This "new to me" gun left the factory with 28" barrels bored cylinder and very light modified .

[Treeman]

Having shot a few big game animals with Buckshot I have to say it is generally far underrated. Stretching the range is folly but up close a charge of buck in the neck and shoulders tends to fold big stuff like a well hit quail.

[Bob9863]

Two things I noticed 1st, wow Iraq had a king then and the place was stable, that was a shocker.
But as to the buckshot, I've never shot at a deer with buckshot only pigs but I've made clean kills at 40m with cylinder bores, always took a second barrel but that was just to stop them from making it to cover to die.
I've made good kills at 50m with a full choke on pigs and it hit them harder, if I could use them on deer I would at that range too.
But I've found the British SSG 18 pellet 2 3/4" shell's the best killers as they had good weight but more importantly they pattern better then any other buckshot I've tried.
Now we used to do kangaroo drives and there were plenty of them that were the sane size as a Buck and just as strong, I found that 42gm mini mag shell's from a full choke killed better and further then anything else.
That hammered home to me one simple rule patterns kill, not the shot size (within reason) but it tells me that if you can shoot a tight pattern with AAA buck then it will kill better then 3 pellets of 000 out of 10.

I was shooting foxes recently on a driven hunt with an imp/cyl choked coach gun and decided instead of buying BB's that I would buy #3 shot and get a fuller pattern.
I was pulling up foxes at 60m with them, it didn't deck them but it made them stop running and sit or roll allowing a second shot that sealed the deal and I doubt I could have done that with BB's as so few pellets would have hit.

So in short I'm over big shot and I'm sold on full even patterns as the best medicine.

FYI SSG is .27 so pretty close to between a #1 and #4 buck probably a #2 so if you can get a #1 16 pellet buck load then it will probably do as good, but I'd rather 20-24 pellets of # 3 buck.

[dverna]

I have never bought into the 30" circle for starters and by my standards for buckshot even the improved patterns they achieved are crummy. A 12" circle more nearly reflects killing pattern. And of course anyone who shoots at deer at 80 much less 140 yds with buckshot ought not be in the woods. I applaud their efforts though and there are still things to remember. A 2 pellet stack seems to provide the least turmoil up the barrel. And patterning your load is the only way to determine how it performs out of your gun/choke. Also with the 2 pellet stack a full choke is better. Hard shot, properly fitted in a shotcup with a little buffer works to great advantage. I shot many modern factory loads in my testing that performed poorly that do not utilize these modern advantages. My "perfect" load is 6-2 pellet stacks of #1 buck moving at about 1350 fps using a slow powder (Steel) that will put an average 8 pellets in a 12" circle at 50 yds. Of course if you can't hit your target you are sunk to start with! Yes a deer with 8 pellets behind the shoulder can travel a ways without a blood trail but he will be dead at the end of that trail. Not far, usually. If you need 80 or 100 yds out of a shotgun work on your slug loads. Thanks for the look at that great old magazine Ralph!

Good post! Lots of experience and wisdom there.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I read that whole article last night late and whereas I don't agree with using Buckshot for deer at anything over about 25 yards, I did like reading about what they were trying to accomplish back in 1957 when I was 7 years old! They certainly did just deal with the facts,,, but then again I see why as Dragnet was the hit show at that time. "Just the fact ma'am."

Those Gun Mags were the internet of yesteryear.

I really liked the ads in that magazine and especially the prices on some of the guns. Lugers for $40? wow that would be a gold mine if you had a time machine.

It was definitely a trip into the past. I bet they would go nutz over our slugs and the shotguns we have today.

As far as Buckshot goes My M500 with the Vang Comped Barrel patterns all of it's 9 pellets into 7" at 25 yards ! And slugs are 2" at 50 yards,,, Offhand! A far cry from what they were getting back then.

I guess time marches on, huh?

Randy

[Outpost75]

Another data point, which gives useful info on test methodology, and results for typical 1980s police loads.

"The Truth About Buckshot" - American Rifleman October, 1982

SYNOPSIS

This article summarizes the results of firing approximately 500 patterns with Remington Express 12-ga. buffered buckshot loads, without shot wrapper from Model 870 shotguns. Firings were conducted by NRA Technical Staff, assisting the FBI Firearms Unit at the FBI Academy, Quantico, VA using test materials provided by Remington. The article later published in American Rifleman was oriented towards deer hunting for "political" reasons.

Ten patterns each were fired at 25 and 40 yards, from cylinder, improved cylinder, modified and full choked barrels. The cylinder and IC barrels were both 20 inches. The modified and full choked barrels were standard field barrels of 26" and 28", respectively.

While modified and full 20 inch police and military barrels were also tested also, those results were not included in the published article, because of the desire to maintain a "sporting" focus. Other than an insignificant drop in velocity, results with the shorter, more tightly choked barrels was not materially different from the common sporting-length barrels.

The same Remington 870 receiver, stock and trigger group was fired repeatedly interchanging the four different barrels.

Patterns were fired against a 48" square plate of AR500 steel 3/8" thick, photographed and the Titanium dioxide/lard oil pigment rebrushed between shots. Pellet hits were plotted in relation to a clear plastic overlay having a 30" outer circle, positioned to contain the greatest number of pellets, with a 21.2" inner circle, the 30" circle and inner ring being quartered into eight equal-area fields. The 21.2" inner circle approximates the major torso area of an Army "E" or FBI silhouette. Pellets striking inside the inner ring have a greater probability of striking vital organs, whereas those on the fringe outside the inner circle, within the 30" outer ring are more likely to cause non-life threatening wounds to the extremities.

A 100% pattern in which all pellets strike within the 30" ring may be ineffective unless the center of the pattern surrounding the aiming point contains more than three hits. The combination of soft buckshot, unbuffered loads and tight chokes increased pellet deformation which can result in "doughnut" shaped patterns having weak centers.

WW2, Korean and Vietnam-era Army experience as evaluated by the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology indicated that fewer than three pellet hits of 00 buckshot do not produce instant incapacitation, unless one or more of those pellets strike vital areas of the head, neck, or chest. With random distribution of as few as three pellets in the 21.2" circle, hitting a vital spot depends mostly on luck and random variations of chance. More hits are better!

A single 00 pellet fired from a 12-ga. riot shotgun at a range of 30 yards has a kinetic energy of about 120 ft.-lbs. Three pellet hits produce 360 ft.-lbs., which approximates the kinetic energy of a single round of .45 cal. M1911 Ball ammunition fired from the service pistol. More than three pellet hits, when their combined effect is distributed over the body, produce greater shock to the nervous and vascular systems and vital organs struck than a single projectile hit having the same kinetic energy.

For law enforcement and military purposes 4 or more hits is considered "adequate" performance, producing a high probability of instant incapacitation. Any shotgun-ammo combination reliably producing 5 hits with 00 at realistic combat ranges from 25 to 40 yards is said to provide "good" performance. More than 5 hits is considered "excellent."

The standard Remington Express 9-pellet buffered load of 00 buck with no shot sleeve, fired from an 870 cylinder bore 20" riot gun averages 8.9 hits in the 30" circle and 7.1 in the 21.2" inner ring at 25 yards. This falls off to 7.5 and 3.3 hits at 40 yards.

Repeating the test using a 20-inch improved cylinder barrel, all nine pellets strike in the 30" circle and 8.6 in the 21.2" inner ring at 25 yards. Repeating the test again, at 40 yards, the IC barrel produced 8.0 and 4.4 hits, respectively. For civilian home defense purposes the 20" improved cylinder "Brushmaster" or "Deer" barrels with rifle sights give dependable performance.

For combat use the 12-pellet "short-magnum" load of 00 buck is a better choice in 2-3/4" chambered guns, if you can tolerate additional recoil. Even though the pattern percentages produced are lower, you can expect one additional pellet hit inside the inner ring.

If you wish to maximize pellet count to optimize pattern density, while still having adequate penetration to defeat interior walls or auto glass, the 20-pellet "short magnum" load of No.1 buck is probably the best choice. No.1 buckshot weigh 40 grains each, producing 103 ft.-lbs. at the muzzle, 69 ft.-lbs. at 30 yards and 61-ft.-lbs. at 40 yards. It takes nearly twice as many pellet hits with No.1 to produce the same kinetic energy as half the number of 00, so 6 pellet hits are marginal, 8 "adequate" and ten or more "good" performance.

No. 4 buck weigh only 20.7 grains each, and have 81 ft. lbs. of energy per pellet at the muzzle, 45 ft. lbs. at 30 yards and 41 ft. lbs. at 40 yards. Experience has shown that despite excellent pattern density, their penetration is inadequate, except perhaps for interior guard use where risk of collateral damage must be minimized.

The entire article is worth reading if you are curious about how other loads and chokes performed, but the above gives you what we really need to know. While it is true that the data used for this study date from the 1980s, its general conclusions are valid. Modern "pattern control" buckshot loads provide tighter patterns than the results shown in this article, but the 1982 article gives a realistic expectation of performance when using common buckshot loads and guns.

[bruce drake]

¥ certain hunter from the Orofino, Idahd, '
vicinity is going to be a mite more careful
what he's shooting at from now on. Out hunting
elk, he suddenly grabbed his rifle and
fired away. It turned out that he'd blasted a
farmer's horse out from under him. It cost
the hunter $100. *

It seems city hunters still blaze away and its been a time honored tradition it seems... I pulled it from the editor's brief of the linked magazine. :)

[Bob9863]

Shoot a farmer's horse out from under him where I hunt and you had best be prepared for some return fire.

[UKshooter]

FYI SSG is .27 so pretty close to between a #1 and #4 buck probably a #2 so if you can get a #1 16 pellet buck load then it will probably do as good, but I'd rather 20-24 pellets of # 3 buck.[/QUOTE]

Yes the British SSG buck is the same size as American 2 Buck [0.270"] and I reload this in 12, 18, 21 & 24 pellet loads in 12 guage. Out of my Moss 500 with 24" barrel and ex full choke [0.690"] these loads will pattern at about 75% in a 24" circle, tight enough for me, much tighter you have to aim like a rifle rather than point. I find the 21 pellet load with buffer in a 3" case holds a good pattern beyond 40 yards on a 30" circle.

I also load 1 Buck and 0 Buck [0.320"] and 14 x 0 Buck with buffer in a 3" case is excellent putting 10 or 11 hits in a 30" circle at 50 yards.

[Markopolo]

If you Like the old Mags like me, click this link...

https://gunsmagazine.com/classic-guns-magazine-editions/

This will give you the opportunity to download all of the editions in PDF between 1955 and 1968... should keep you folks quite busy for winter reading.

[Pb Burner]

Especially liked the gun ads. Would love to go back in time with the money in our savings account and order up a couple semi truckloads.

Yeah, like the Hodgdon add on pg 43, 100lb keg of powder for $49.50! :shock:

[OnHoPr]

Good vintage literature on buckshot. I have read many. To tell the truth in opinion the general shooting public has a misconception about buckshot, or at least for deer hunting purposes. Most just grab a box of buckshot and shoot it out of their smoothbore at whatever they think 30 or 40 yds might be. Then most do not have the skills to track buckshot shot deer. And yes, for a quite a few number of them the deer will drop in their tracks or fall within sight. Most will not though. The deer that were tagged may have been only 28 yds and the deer that weren't may have been 57 yds. There's the 2 sides to the story in deer bragging or buckshot ranting. I have shot a few factory loads with different shotties. Most all were really only capable of being lethal on deer at around 30 yds to 35 yds and if you took a shot @ 35 yds you'd better be quick with chambering a few more shells most likely. I did see once where I put 18 00 buck in a 20" pattern @ 40 yds which I was pretty impressed with. Like HT said the 30" circle is to wide to consider. The 12" is good, but like he said you have to hit the target. That might mean like using a full choke on early season grouse, WC, or thick short range quail shootin. The 18 or 20" pattern will help if you can keep a consistent core especially for fast moving deer.

I did a bit of reloading and factory testing for buckshot, not extensive, but a bit. I came up with all kinds of criteria or concepts to think about using the 835. One is buckshot size. Maybe HT could enlighten me about buckshot size and actual damage to the lungs and shoulder blade penetration since he shoots or tested a number of sizes. HT's load is 12 #1 buck @ 1350 which is basically a handicap trap load, but has great patterning. Now, I know he mentors his grandsons with the 20 ga on their first deer. Is that using #3 buck factory or reloads? QUESTION, is there a significant difference in lung tissue damage between the 00, #1, or #3 buck. I do suppose the 00 buck will penetrate more, but how much is really needed to perforate hair, green ribs, and lungs? Is it that you can see where the buckshot went through the lungs, but can't really tell the size of the buckshot used during field dressing because the lung tissue is elastic and closes back up, but still bleeds?

Most factory buckshot is loaded from about 1050 to about 1350 fps. Now, a 000 buck doing 1325 has a little bit smack than a #1 doing 1100 fps. I found a huntable load, but like in reloading sometimes you just like to see if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence and tweak another load or two. With the 835 with its 1400 k psi saami and multiple chokes availability, well it just seems like there are a google of possibilities. Like getting (off the top of the head guessing) a 15 count #1 buck doing better than 1500 fps, or whatever, if the pattern is there @ 40 - 50 yds. 1s, 0, 00, 000 buck with five choke tubes could make you burn through a 1000 primers just testing different loads.:Fire: Definitely lead sled time. But, that is what you are looking for that first initial shot. 18 00 buck in a 18 - 20" circle @ 40 yds even @ 1100 fps isn't bad, but it would be better if it was in a 16" circle @ 50 yds.

[UKshooter]

Interesting read OnHoPr I agree testing buckshot can soon go through 1000 primers and a lot of powder. Over here most folk think of buckshot patterns as covering barn doors at 20 yards so the fact that you can get 75% patterns in a 30" circle at 40 yards comes as a surprise to many. Back in the 50's we use to do deer drives to shotguns but idiots used size 6 game shot at 50 plus yard deer resulting in wounded deer and this practice was so wide spread the drives got banned. On main land europe deer and pig drives are still done.
Most of my buckshot is loaded over Blue Dot powder with velocity between 1100 - 1250 fps, I can get higher velocity with Longshot but patterns are not as good with my gun/choke combo's.

[Bob9863]

I like watching the Bubba roundtree buckshot hunts, they get some good range with their buckshot, although a lot went into developing their loads and choke selection.

[Hogtamer]

OnHoPr, several things come to mind immediately. We all know that the more pellets in a load the more the energy is dispersed. Someone here will have to do the math but each pellet of a load containing 18 #1 pellets vs a load of 12 #1 pellets will have preportionally less energy on target assuming the same velocity from the bore. Achieving the same velocity for the larger load also requires a larger charge, increasing recoil significantly. Also requires a more crowded stack (3 vs 2). I think most of us know that the more crowded the stack the more turmoil and deformation up the pipe. Less energy = less penetration. More deformation = more flyers. Stray pellets in the hams don't count much for lethality. Also, hard pellets will penetrate further. How much penetration is needed? A deer's innards are basically mush. Get through the initial hair, skin and fat and the pellets are doing lethal work. On our southern deer that is maybe 1/4". 12 - 18" later and the opposing fat, skin and hair is met, but the pellets have done their job by then. Now this is assuming a broadside shot behind the shoulder. Head or hind view of an animal IS NOT appropriate buckshot target!!!! All of this could be proved with math and physics and I'm not the man for that challenge.
A purely anectodal observation is this: There is a cumulative "shock factor" in play with buckshot. We have seen deer bolt a hundred yard with its heart shot out with a big centerfire. Often a deer just collapses when hit similarly with multiple low energy pellets. I cannot explain that by physics or math. Buckshot has a poor reputation because of guys behind the gun. Jump a deer and shoot him in the butt running at 50 yds, or face-on in the brisket and you are expecting miracles, not performance. Shoot a big thick-hided southern boar toward the shoulder through brush and you are living dangerously. Buckshot loads are not magic. But loaded to optimize performance with modern components and used only to their potential they are extraordinarily effective and provide a bit of margin for less than perfect placement.

[MyFlatline]

As with any gun, they all shoot differently . We pattern with a paper plate at 40 yards. My 12 sxs prefers #1 buck in the full choke side and 000 in the modified. I haven't seen much mention of 000, but give it a try. It's like 9 35 caliber bullets headed your way.

[OnHoPr]

Well, I know it takes a long time to empty 9 lbs of WW lead out of a Lee production pot using a single cavity Lee .311. It can get to your back a little bit. Water dropped they turn out to be about .314. I then wet tumble them for a few hours with tumbling detergent then LLA them. They don't deform in the barrel or on the sand berm. That is one of the reasons for only a bit of testing. If I would have acquired a few buckshot molds, wheeew, I might have gone bonzai with buckshot testing. The only thing is that I only use it for a few different rare scenarios in the north, mostly stand hunting where deer could/should be moving at a fast walk stop and go pace like before or after they cross a road in brushy funnel areas. This scenario is why the semi interest into developing a different load.

As HT mentioned buckshot should be shot into the ribs of a broadside deer if I am not mistaken. Now, IMO the broadside or like bow quartering away shot should be taken in most cases. Now, I want to believe that my load @ 40 yds on a head on shot could be placed at the bottom of the neck white patch. Really all there is there is skin, esophagus and neck vertebrae, no muscle really. More like a turkey neck shot, it should drop the deer in its tracks. That target is approximately 10-12" long and about 3" wide. What has me pondering sitting in one of these type stands is the onward flanking quartering to shot where the shoulder blade and humerus bone and meat are shielding the boiler room. Something a little faster and heavier may be a little more appropriate, but still in a good tight pattern.

[bruce drake]

I just found a link for a lot of reading! Thanks Markopolo!

[UKshooter]

I like watching the Bubba roundtree buckshot hunts, they get some good range with their buckshot, although a lot went into developing their loads and choke selection.

Ye I use Wades reloading video's as a starting point for most of my buckshot loads. His guns do better with Longshot powder than my Mossberg but with Blue Dot I get close to his results.

[Bob9863]

The trouble I have here is I can only get 2 3/4" shell's and wads so I can't load or buy the heavier 3" loads.
Goose hunting up north I could get 3" shell's but the reality of where I live now is they just aren't available to me.