Anybody Have a Copy of Roy Dunlap's Book "GUNSMITHING"?

[Linstrum]

Our local library had their copy of Dunlap's book stolen just recently.

I need Dunlap's recipe for hot bluing and blacking, it is a good one and is simple. It uses Grant's stump remover and Drano "kitchen crystals" as the two ingredients for one version, the other uses ammonium fertilizer and Drano. The key ingredients are actually potassium nitrate and soda lye.

I made up some solution from memory and I'll be darned if I can get it to work! Usually to test it you drop in some nails and let it simmer for a fifteen minutes and you have the blackest, shiniest nails you ever did see. It is also a hard scratch-resistant bluing-blacking treatment, it withstands hard use just great. The down side is that it is not blue - it is as black as black can be. But it is EASY, - - - IF the recipe is handy! I do have a hunch that the stuff Drano sells nowadays is not lye because of the problem with droogies using it to make crack or some such mind-altering substance, and that is why my bluing solution no longer works.


rl316

[danski26]

I have Roy's book in hand. On page 391 he lists "Bakers basic solution" for hot blueing;

sodium nitrate 1/4 oz
potassium nitrate 1/4 oz
bichloride of mercury 1/2 oz
potassium chlorate 1/2 oz
distilled water 10 oz
spirits of nitre 1/2 oz

Is this the one you need?

[scrapcan]

linstrum I would like that recipe also. I have been tempted to by the book from brownell's just for that recipe. An old friend told me about it but could not find his book. I have an old stackpole book on blueing and browning but the materials needed are getting harder and harder to get your hands on for legitimate purposes. I have santa barbara commercial mauser action and barrel that needs to be blued/blacked.

[Firebird]

I think Linstrum is referring to the formula on page 399 of my NRA published copy.

5 pounds lye
2 1/2 pounds ammonium nitrate
per gallon of water

working temperature 285-295 degrees, soak 15-40 minutes depending on the hardness of the steel.
Have lots of ventilation when adding the ammonium nitrate as considerable ammonia fumes result.

Dunlap attributes this formula to Don Lowery and says this produces an unbelievably durable finish that can take a wire brush test without damage.

[twotrees]

The last formula Firebird posted is NOT in there.

If you want anythig else I'll be glad to look it up for you.

[danski26]

It is in my copy. Page 399 2nd edition copyright 1963

[wills]

You can go to Google and read the whole book on line

[pincherpartner]

Making it easy

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7Ab12fHr8y0C&dq=roy+dunlap+gun (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7Ab12fHr8y0C&dq=roy+dunlap+gunsmithing&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=udsA3TkT8u&sig=9LJCC3jyPuSGKYI89WrDuqSDnwk&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result)
smithing&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=udsA3TkT8u&sig=9LJCC3jyPuS (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7Ab12fHr8y0C&dq=roy+dunlap+gunsmithing&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=udsA3TkT8u&sig=9LJCC3jyPuSGKYI89WrDuqSDnwk&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result)
GKYI89WrDuqSDnwk&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=7Ab12fHr8y0C&dq=roy+dunlap+gunsmithing&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=udsA3TkT8u&sig=9LJCC3jyPuSGKYI89WrDuqSDnwk&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result)

[Linstrum]

Okay, thanks, guys. Got it.


I had no idea that there were several different versions of the book, some with the recipe I wanted and some without.

For twenty years I modified the easiest formula of the bunch to make a REALLY durable hot black solution. I was using the formula on page 398 modified as follows:


65% Lye (aka sodium hydroxide)
35% Potassium nitrate (aka saltpeter)

Don't use the Drano lye crystals with little chunks of aluminum in it, the aluminum will prevent the solution from working. Use eye protection since a little lye in the eye may cause severe damage, even blindness. Mix the dry ingredients and than add enough water to make into a damp paste before heating. When heated it will turn into soupy liquid. Simmer your steel parts in this until the black surface is formed; probably in about 20 - 40 minutes. Like it mentions in the book you can't take the blacking off with a wire brush - plenty hard stuff!


rl417

[wills]

Linstrum, what about your ferro phsphoric finish? How would that look on an entire gun or major parts thereof?

[Wicky]

Hey Guys, just a quick question - do you need to plug the barrel for this blueing or is it OK for the inside to get solution on it?

Cheers

Wicky

[Linstrum]

Hi, Wills and Wicky:

I think a good dark phosphate finish is pretty nice looking. Last month I managed to obtain all the ingredients for doing the phosphate finish - phosphoric acid, manganese dioxide powder, and steel wool. I did several experimental batches using a Pyrex coffee pot to simmer the stuff in and I managed to get a light gray finish. The greenish dark color I want I have not been able to get yet. Ricochet suggested using a bit of copper salts in it as well, some of the Garand rifles are a dark olive green color I really like and they used a copper additive in the Parkerizing solution. I'll keep working on it and when I get the Parkerizing process figurred out I'll post that procedure.

Barrels MUST be plugged when doing metal bluing, blacking, browning, or phosphate/Parkerizing since the solutions are corrosive to the finely finished inner surface of barrels and all the other finely finished working surfaces like sears and other parts of trigger assemblies.

I left off one important safety warning about lye, aka sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, which is when making up solutions with lye to add the lye to water, not add water to the lye since a violent steam explosion will result. Fortunately when mixing up a hot blacking solution like the one I wanted the recipe for where it contains both saltpeter and lye, the saltpeter refrigerates when it dissolves into the water and cools the lye. But caution is still needed since the solution is quite corrosive to skin.

I found the phosphoric acid for Parkerizing at both Home Depot and Lowe's in their paint departments. It is called phosphoric etch. The manganses dioxide I got from a pottery glaze chemicals supply house, it is actually pretty common for making black and purple glazes on pottery. I don't recall the name of the particular pottery supply house right now, I need to look it up on my credit card statement.


rl418

[13Echo]

OK I finally dug up my copy of Dunlap which I bought new in aught 63. As mentioned the recipie in question is on page 399 and is the 5lbs lye and 2.5lbs ammonium nitrate per gal of water.

To elaborate working temp is between 285 and 295 F. Dunlap says the solution lasts almost indefinately or "at least for between 35 and 50 blacking jobs." Keep adding water as necessary and a pound of lye every 12 to 15 jobs. Time in the bath is 15 to 40 minutes. Degrease, rinse and dry then into the tank. After removal just rinse, dry and oil.

Now how to buy 5lbs lye and 2.5lbs ammonium nitrate without being investigated as a terrorist or druggie.

Jerry Liles

[drinks]

Most auto parts stores and hardware stores have the phosphoric acid, brand names are Ospho and Rust Stop, here locally.
For cheap potassium nitrate, check the sites for making amateur fireworks for technical grade, non food grade, material.

[XRING363]

I have 2 copys of CLYDE BAKERS MODERN GUNSMITHING, I believe one is an original 1933 copy.
Feel free to PM me for pics. I don't know how to post pics here. It is a superb hardbound book.

Regards my friends
Jeff

[XRING363]

FYI, stump killer is a very good source of potassium nitrate, 99% pure, 4/5 dollars a pound at Lowes/Homedepot.......

[scrapcan]

Linstrum,

I have a copy of the Angier book "Firearm Blueing and Browning". I would be willing to loan it to you if you need it. Send me a pm if interested.

[Catshooter]

Gentlemen,

IMPORTATNT SAFETY TIP; You do not plug the barrel when hot blueing/blacking. As the air you've trapped in the barrel heats up the match the 290 degree lye solution it will expand alot and the odds are excellent it will blow out a plug. That can propell lye solution into places you didn't plan for it to go!

That blueing solution is dangerous stuff. Please make sure you understand what you are doing before doing it.

One does want to plug the barrel when Parkerizing. The solution is corrosive and at a much lower temp. The blueing solution can/is corrosive, but it's much slower, takes days.

"Add water . . ." Such a simple statment. Adding water to a working blueing bath is a bit like adding water to the working lead pot. Neither the bath nor the water like it! That hot lye on skin doesn't quite burn like liquid lead but it ani't pleasant by any means. And in the eye? Oh no thank you. Please don't wear safety glasses, wear goggles at least.

Sounds overkill, but a construction hard hat with the type of safety face mask that attaches to it is good. Can help from getting the solution behind your ear or down the back of your collar. Of course the long sleeve cotton shirt you're wearing is buttoned all the way to the neck, right?

Sorry to be so long, but there are just a few tricks to this work. It's like cooking bacon naked; not a good plan.


Cat

[Junior1942]

I'm liking my flat black paint better all the time.

[sundog]

Junior, +1. I've done a couple with flat black exhaust manifold spray paint. The high temp stuff. Not sorry I did. Very durable. Good looking.

[Linstrum]

I guess some elaboration is needed on HOW to properly plug a barrel for hot tank bluing. I always did it with a threaded 3/16 steel or preferably stainless steel rod. The end plugs are Teflon, cork, or oak with Teflon tape to make the seal so no bluing liquor gets down the barrel. Teflon is good up to around 550°F and a barrel that gets that hot is starting to lose its heat treatment. Since the rod goes all the way through the barrel it keeps the ends from popping off, as is a certainty if just stoppered. The tips of the tie rod are great for suspending the barrel down in the tank.


rl422

[Catshooter]

I like that method Linstrum. I think I may just have give it a shot.


Cat

[wills]

Most auto parts stores and hardware stores have the phosphoric acid, brand names are Ospho and Rust Stop, here locally.
For cheap potassium nitrate, check the sites for making amateur fireworks for technical grade, non food grade, material.

http://www.skylighter.com/mall/chemicals.asp?Sort=A