Reaming a 357 to max

[Wagnerwerks]

Hey guys. I have finally got my traditions 357 mag rifle in my possession after a 2 month screw around session from factory. I went out last night and put a wide array of different loads through it with mediocre at best results. I've read tons of reviews of the handi guns being reamed to max and shooting 38s and mags even better with the longer throat.

I've been looking to purchase a used reamer but I'd like to get some thoughts on whether or not I should ream it before I get it shooting better.

If anyone has a reamer they want to lend or sell, send me a pm.

[kungfustyle]

Just my 2 cents. I've seen all the time on Graybeards where people mess around with a rifle turn it into different calibers etc then turn around and want to sell it. WHY! Sell the gun like it is and buy a 41 or 44 mag if you want more umph. I know its your gun and you can do what you want with it, but I've seen too many people wanting to sell them after they've made a Frankenstein gun. Just keep your eyes out on Graybeards boards one will come up in month or two and buy one from one of them. Does the gun not shoot well now?

[Nobade]

I'd make a chamber cast and measure the barrel dimensions to see what you're working with. Then load ammo appropriately. If you need more power, the max delivers. But if you just want better accuracy, figure out what it wants for ammo.

[Wagnerwerks]

I have a 44mag and a 45lc gun already. I have always wanted a max and went with this after a long wait trying to buy a reasonably priced handi. I will ream it eventually, but I will work more on load development and go from there. I have some jacketed 358 158g loaded over 16g h110 to try tonight if I get time. That should be a good baseline.

[NSB]

I have had two .357max rifles and I can tell you for a fact that they WILL NOT shoot the shorter cartridges better than they do the Max. cartridge. Both of my guns are/were tack drivers in the max configuration and never shot Mag length loads as well as Max loads. Maybe you'll get lucky, but I doubt it. Thinking that making the throat longer to get better accuracy just isn't the answer. You may end up with a good shooting Max bbl., but you won't be getting better accuracy in the Max chamber with Mag loads. You many have a chamber that can be improved with reaming, but you'll end up with a good/better shooting .357max, and not a good shooting .357mag. FWIW, I've got several pages of load data to back this up.....been there and done that.

[Texas by God]

I have a 44mag and a 45lc gun already. I have always wanted a max and went with this after a long wait trying to buy a reasonably priced handi. I will ream it eventually, but I will work more on load development and go from there. I have some jacketed 358 158g loaded over 16g h110 to try tonight if I get time. That should be a good baseline.That's a good plan. You need to have a baseline for the accuracy. You might even try some plain old 38 Special 158 grain round-nose. Those are usually quite accurate in most 357 guns.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Wagnerwerks]

Not sure I'll be able to shoot tonight. Just got done fixing a flat on the wifeys car. :). Life... Sometimes it really gets in the way of play time. Lol

[Wagnerwerks]

What brand guns are they? Where they factory max length Chambers or did you ream them? I totally understand the lack of reason for them to shoot better, but a lot of people claim vast improvements. I'm just collecting data right now so I certainly appreciate all input. Thanks guys

[P Flados]

I shoot a lot of 357 mag & 357 max.

The mag is handicapped more by the SAAMI pressure limit than anything else. Just look up the 353 casull.

If you have a mag that you are really not happy with, the next question is why.

Is it lack of power, or does it just not shoot good.

Reaming to a max chamber might fix a problem and allow it to shoot better. However, the "better' is most likely going to be with Maximum cases. If the poor shooting is something other than a poor chamber, reaming will not fix anything.

If you really want some extra power, but want flexibility, I recommned thinking of a 360 DW chamber. You can get pretty close to 357 max performance with 360 DW cases, but you can also get pretty good shooting with long seated boolits in 357 mag cases.

[CIC]

I have 2 357 max handi rifles that I reamed myself. I did not check accuracy before reaming but accuracy is very good in the maxi version. One is a standard 22 inch barrel the other was cut to 17 inches. I am a big fam of that caliber in a carbine. I do most of my shooting with 38 special.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I have had two .357max rifles and I can tell you for a fact that they WILL NOT shoot the shorter cartridges better than they do the Max. cartridge. Both of my guns are/were tack drivers in the max configuration and never shot Mag length loads as well as Max loads. Maybe you'll get lucky, but I doubt it. Thinking that making the throat longer to get better accuracy just isn't the answer. You may end up with a good shooting Max bbl., but you won't be getting better accuracy in the Max chamber with Mag loads. You many have a chamber that can be improved with reaming, but you'll end up with a good/better shooting .357max, and not a good shooting .357mag. FWIW, I've got several pages of load data to back this up.....been there and done that.

That doesn't surprise me. It isn't just a throat, but 5/16in. of chamber-diameter free flight. The Maximum seems like a good option for a rifle that will always use it - not so much for powder capacity, but for the ability to use longer, better-shaped bullets. From that point of view it might be considered superior to the .44 and .41 Magnums. But easy interchangeability with the .357 Magnum, except in a supply emergency, should be a very minor consideration.

A supply emergency could easily happen with the Maximum. It can be difficult to find at any time, and I wouldn't exclude its being discontinued in the future. But if you want to guard against that, without risking second-rate accuracy for evermore in a rifle that probably can't even have its barrel set back, the .357 Herrett is probably a better choice. Brass of the .30-30 family will probably still be available in the age of the death ray.

[farmerjim]

My Handi 357 mag reamed to 357 Max shoots great as a Max and just about as good with 357 mag and 38 sp. It is considered a primitive weapon here (2 more weeks of hunting season) , and will drop deer DRT at 200 yards.

[Wagnerwerks]

So last night I managed to take four shots with jacketed ammo. I have a range on our property that works great for 50-100yd shooting but due to time and gale force winds, that was the extent of it. It was less than perfect conditions, but I managed to squeeze of a 2" group at 50yrds. Not horrible for shooting from the back of my car ��. I will do a better job Friday when I have off work. I also measured my chamber length and found it to have 1.62" to the ramp. The 190s I'm shooting now, a gift from a fantastic member here, allow me a 1.71oal so I'm going to load a few up with 2400, h110, and blue dot and see what I get from a good rest. I'm not a veteran to reloading, but only really started a couple years ago so powders are always a question for me. Any recommendations are welcome.

[GhostHawk]

I'm with nobade. See what you have first.

Then if you have the H&R long leade, consider trying .360DW brass rather than reaming.

I have a .357 mag and mine takes full length .360 brass without trimming. And I set my cast boolits out farther than most.

Do a pound cast, compare to mag, max, .360 brass lengths. Then see where you are.

Reaming to max is unlikely to make .38 special and .357mag rounds shoot better than they do now. And IMO you really don't need more power, .357mag has plenty with the right powder choice.

Or do like I do and shoot mild Red Dot loads in it. Dirt cheap to load and more accurate than I am.

[Wagnerwerks]

Cheap shooting was ideally what I hoped for when choosing the 357. I don't really need to ream it, but the max has always been on my want list. I load more 38/357 than any other caliber and I was honestly hoping this gun would shoot 38 wad cutters with some accuracy. I wanted to "plink" with my boys with cheap cast bullets that we make together. The whole experience will be very enjoyable for all 3 of us. Then I figured we can hunt with it as a bonus.

My chamber allows just the mag ammo, seated out a little.

[DougGuy]

There is a big difference in freebore and freejump. Freebore, or parallel smooth bore between the chamber mouth and leade in to the rifling is great for squaring up the boolit and aligning it to the centerline of the bore before it hits rifling, it is presented to the leade ins perfectly aligned and on center because freebore is fully supported space. Freejump, as previously suggested is just that, an open unsupported space the boolit has to travel through before crashing randomly into the chamfer at the end of the chamber. Having the barrel throat lengthened so you can seat out longer and use any boolit style you choose would work with any of the loads.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Yes exactly, and a bit of unused body diameter gives even more opportunity for the bullet to tilt than an excessively wide or eroded throat. True freebore, as used in Weatherby rifles, is said to make the rise to peak pressure less abrupt. I doubt if that effect is a strong one, but Weatherbys in their early days, inevitably in the hands of handloaders with fewer specialised slow powders than we have today, needed all the help with peak pressure they could get.

I think a little more experimentation is necessary before concluding that a .357 Magnum rifle won't shoot well. But if you are really sold on the need for a longer throat, why not just use a throat reamer, which I am sure Clymer or Mansonreamers can supply cheaper than a chamber one?

[Outer Rondacker]

Why not go the .01 more and make it a supermag? Just saying.

[Wagnerwerks]

So I guess I was a little vague on my first post. My apologies. I was planning on reaming this rifle for max before I bought it. As stated, I guess I really don't need to do that, but it was my original plan. I was most concerned about modifying it before I had it shooting well with mags and 38s. This discussion has been great and my plan is to load a few rounds and try it out. The gun has been rebarreled buy traditions. The 38s I ran through it when it had the first barrel were 158g lswc over 5g of unique so they were plinkers. They also shot all over the place. I slugged the first barrel and got 356, but I need to do this one. If the quality control is as good as the customer service, who knows what I have now.

[Steve E]

I had (still have) an Encore rifle barrel in 38 Spl Match that would shoot .75 groups at 100 yds and after a while got bored with it and reamed it to 357 Maxi and absolutely love it. It now shoots the same 38 Spl load into 1.25 inch at 100 yds. With 357 Maxi it will shoot under an inch most all the time. If you rechamber it to the Maxi be sure and try Lil'Gun powder in it, it seems like it is made for it, also Hornady 180 gr XTP seem to be one of the best bullets for it in most guns. Most Maxi's shoot very well with 180 gr bullets, cast or jacketed. What twist is your rifle, also check the crown.

Steve.........

[Wagnerwerks]

The twist is 1:18 and the crown looks pretty nice. It is overall a good design, but it's really not hard to redesign a single shot. It locks up nicely but it is chambered a little deep at the head. I haven't had a single misfire, but it's got a little slop. I loaded a few 125s with 2400 to give a lighter bullet a whirl too.

[Steve E]

My Maxi's are all 1-14 twist which I think is ideal for 180 gr bullets, I believe the 1-18 is better with lighter bullets. That doesn't mean it won't shoot good with heavier bullets though.

Steve.........

[Wagnerwerks]

I have been working on a good load for this gun for a while now and my work is finally paying off. I have a unique load with powder coated 200g Lee slugs shooting 1" group at 50yrds and a 158g pc slug with a 2400 load dropping them into a 1.5 inch spot. I can load the 200s long with bullet touching the rifling and it shoots well. I'm going to start my search for max brass and go from there.

[Bookworm]

The search for Max brass is short - Starline has it. And 360DW also.

[Jedman]

The Max is a great round, I own 3 rifles chambered in it but find for 95 % of shooting, plinking and deer hunting with it I would do just as well with a standard 357 mag.
I have killed several deer with the 357 mag in a rifle and for 100 yards or less where 80 % of all deer are shot you don't need the Max.
It sounds like for your purposes it would be just because you would like to try it and I understand that.
To get all of the extra performance that the Max has you need different powder and bullets that will not explode if you use it for deer hunting. The Max really puts all jacketed pistol bullets off limits when you want to use it for hunting med/ large game as they are not up to the increased velocity and some of the .358 bullets are built to expand at velocities a little higher than the Max will produce so you are somewhat limited in good hunting bullets.
A good heavyweight cast wfn bullet is probably the best choice for hunting.

Jedman

[Clark]

In pursuit of long range hunting.....

1) I would not use a 357 max reamer for a single shot.
I would use a 0.380" straight fluted reamer for a tighter fit on the brass.
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/02033801

2) I would throat the chamber separately for a long boat tailed bullet barely seated in the case mouth.

3) I would ignore the SAAMI max pressure of 48kpsi associated with revolver extraction.

[Wagnerwerks]

I've actually been thinking about the .38 reamer with a handi rifle barrel I'm in the process of building. I have a lathe and if been on my mind to just bore the chamber to spec and the add the rim recess. I want to do one in 9mm also. I didn't think about using it for the max. There's a gracious member here that has offered to loan me a max reamer so I'll likely take him up on that.

[Jedman]

I have bored a couple of shotgun chambers with a boring bar and single point tool, with a plastic hull who cares if you get a slight imprint of the tool marks in the plastic hull ?
Doing a chamber for a rifle ,I have done some with a chucking reamer ( straight walled ) and with others made with a D bit reamer.
If your a handloader don't bore the chamber. you can't get a finish that wount transfer to your brass.

Jedman

[Clark]

When I play around with Quickload / Quicktarget, the longer throat and boat tailed bullet are both more important for range than the jump from 357 mag to 357 max case length.

The primer piercing will be the likely be the pressure limit. CCI 450 small rifle magnum primers are the highest pressure I have found. To make them work even better, one has to bush the firing pin.

I have a rolling block that opens up from gas when the primer pierced. I have a handi rifle that can shake open when there is enough free recoil.

I keep trying for longer range. This year I am building two 7mmSTW rifles, a pre war M70 and new Defiance hunter. I keep trying for more and more range, but one of the deer last year was at 20 feet.

[P Flados]

I load a lot of 357 max, 357 mag & 38 special.

If you have a gun that has ample margin for high pressures, a 360 DW chamber actually has more advantages than some of the other choices.

With most of the guns that we shoot 357 max out of, the guns only perform "good" (accuracy) with maximum cases. This is true even with low power target loads (typically mid way between 38 special and full power 357 magnum. The cost of having a lot of maximum brass around for target loads is pretty high.

Because of the poor choices by select revolver makers, I do not like loading 357 magnum above SAAMI specs. At these pressures, the 357 magnum just does not perform at the power level that many want.

However, the 360 DW can provide real close to 357 max performance in most guns, and at the same time the 360 DW gun should perform good with 357 cases (provided that the boolit extends far enough out of the case with full diameter).

Since most loaders can get 357 magnum cases at a fraction of the cost of either Max or 360 DW, this lets a 360 DW gun use high volume target loads in 357 magnum cases (with the same accuracy as pricey cases), and with only a small quantity of brass (at a premium with starline as the only reliable source) for full power loads.

Before you actually "adopt" a given gun into your "shoot a lot" collection, it is easy to underestimate the impact that brass availability and/or artificial limits can have on your attitude. I really try to promote thinking ahead on this subject. Most people will be "more happy" with a given gun with reduced concerns about brass cost and availability along with no nagging concerns similar to "I should be able to push it harder, but I worry about SAAMI limits and/or worry about my ammo in stupid/wimpy guns".

[ubetcha]

Have a look a Mike Belm's web site. He does a lot of work with the 357max. That's his favorite cartridge. There is a mention about Handi Rifles I believe.