460 Rowland

[skeeter2]

Just ordered a conversion for a Springfield XD-M and brass which is on sale at MidwayUSA. Anyone have experiences to share about loading and shooting this cartridge? I have a can of longshot and picked up Hornaday 230 gr XTP bullets. The box says the bullets are good up to 1500fps. I may make this my new hunting pistol for deer, certainly my new woods carry gun when bow hunting if I can getting it functioning reliably.

[jmort]

I just got my XDm donor gun for my conversion
Probably going to shoot .45 Super or mild .460 Rowland
Seems like it will be fun

[oger]

I've had a Clark conversion on a Springfield for a long time. They are fun to shoot but if you use longshot be very careful about bullets over 250 gr, it will get some very rapid pressure spikes will little increase in load. Normally I use cast bullets for just about everything (don't hunt with it)

[osteodoc08]

The 460 Rowland is one hit little gem but I’ve never really cared for porting, which is necessary for the 460 Rowland. I don’t recall what powder my friend loaded with but it was always fun to shoot but too much muzzle blast for me for anything other than a range toy.

[Outer Rondacker]

I looked into this round a few years back. Looks like a boat load of fun. Keep us updated on how it turns out.

[Tackleberry41]

I have been running 460 in a blackhawk, a convertible with 45 acp cyl. I did not cut the chambers to 460, but trim the brass back to ACP length. The extra length must give enough neck tension to keep the bullets from moving under recoil, not like you can give them a roll crimp. I messed w 45 super in the gun.

My data wont do you any good, I resorted to making a rimmed version of the 460. Cut down 454 casull brass to fit in a ACP chamber. The internal capacity is lower than the 460 brass. Bought a tool to put crimp grove in jacketed bullets, now can roll crimp, work fine.

[Paul105]

Here's some load data from the 460 Rowland website (it has Longshot for the 230gr).

https://www.460rowland.com/load-data/

I have a Clark conversion on a Colt Delta Elite lower. I am waiting on the return of my HK USP full size I sent to 460 Rowland for conversion.

I guess I am really deaf because I don't really notice increased muzzle blast from the compensator in a pistol (or magnaporting in a revolver). My Delta conversion is a lot of fun to shoot and recoil isn't a problem with the loads I've used so far (265gr CSWC at a chronoed 1,150 fps). Kinda got sidetracked and haven't got back to load development (waiting on the HKs return).

So far I've only used AA#7 -- be careful here because from what I've heard, the formula has changed over time and some of the data looks way to hot to me. Start low and use a chrono until you get what you want.

Wish I'd of done it sooner.

Top gun in picture.

https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/hobby/large/IMG_0712.JPG

FWIW,

Paul

[skeeter2]

Has anyone taken game with their rowland? I’m thinking it will be great for deer hunting. Seems like a 45 colt in a more compact, lighter package.

[43PU]

I have hunted with my Glock 21g4 with a lone wolf 6.5 inch barrel with a lone wolf spring kit for 3 years now and I was able to connect with a big doe(big in KY standards) at about 50-60 yards with the lee 452-255RF going around 1500fps she dropped in her tracks no movement or nothing

43pu

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Years ago I had a kit for my 1911. I sold it and did testing using a Glock 21, a Jarvis barrel, extra heavy recoil spring, and regular old 45 ACP brass. The barrel was unported, and I used two springs in the magazine, IIRC. Longshot was my powder of choice with both 200 and 230 grain lead and jacketed bullets. It was a hoot to shoot! BTW, the only difference between 460 brass and 45 acp brass is the length. The 460 brass is no thicker than standard 45 acp brass.

[Tackleberry41]

The Rowland brass may not be thicker, it is different, stronger.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm

It is no stronger than standard 45 acp brass.

[oger]

Don't believe everything you read, thickness of brass is not the last word about strength.

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

I don't believe everything I read. I have tested both 460 brass and regular 45 acp brass in chambers with similar (actually measured) case head support and identical powder charges. I measured case head swell. It was similar in both cases (pun intended). When I originally purchased the 460 kit I had plans to run standard 45 acp cases at higher pressures in a 45 acp barrel out of the rugged, tough Glock 21 (with a bbl with better case head support, of course). I just wanted to see what was so special about this drop in kit. I did hours and hours of research and approached it extremely cautiously.

[dubber123]

I don't believe everything I read. I have tested both 460 brass and regular 45 acp brass in chambers with similar (actually measured) case head support and identical powder charges. I measured case head swell. It was similar in both cases (pun intended). When I originally purchased the 460 kit I had plans to run standard 45 acp cases at higher pressures in a 45 acp barrel out of the rugged, tough Glock 21 (with a bbl with better case head support, of course). I just wanted to see what was so special about this drop in kit. I did hours and hours of research and approached it extremely cautiously.

I'm not surprised, case support is much more important than the case. In a properly chambered strong gun, brass survives surprisingly well right up to the point it starts flowing. (think modern rifle pressures).

[Moonie]

Starline has stated there is no difference between 460 rowland, 45 +P and 45 Super other than length of the brass. There is an article on handloads.com on using a nmbh with a 45 ACP cylinder with standard brass for starting 460 Rowland loads. Interesting article, I've never done it as We have a several 1911's in the family, no sense in tempting fate.

[Tatume]

Starline certainly charges different prices!

45 Auto +P $102.50
45 Auto $94.00
45 Super $119.50
45 Win Mag $122.50
460 Rowland $143.00

I guess the differences are attributable to demand.

[Paul105]

From Starline's website:


45 ACP+P, 45 Automatic+P
0.892 - 0.897 O.A.L.
The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.




45 Super Brass (Large Pistol primer)
0.892 - 0.897 O.A.L.
45 Super* is the same externally as the 45 Auto, but has a thicker web, denser grain structure in the metal, and special heat treat process that enhances the durability of the case. Similar internal capacity as the 45 Auto. Some 45 Super load data was published by Triton Cartridge before they went out of business. *Loads to be shot ONLY in guns modified professionally to handle extreme pressures of this cartridge. DO NOT SHOOT IN STANDARD 45 AUTO!





460 Rowland Brass (Large Pistol primer)
0.954 - 0.960 O.A.L.
The .460 Rowland is a lengthened, heavy duty .45 Auto based case designed by Johnny Rowland. It delivers .44 Magnum ballistics in a semi-automatic handguns chambered for this cutting edge cartridge. Conversion kits are available also. Contact Johnny Rowland at 1-318-537-1481, or email jr@gunsandgears.tv for more information. Cases are available factory direct from Starline.

FWIW,

Paul

[ss30378]

I am one that uses regular 45 acp brass for my 460 level loads but I'm running them in a compensated longslide glock with a lw barrel that has case support to the extractor groove. I've test a 315gr wfn pictures on the bottom to ruger 45 colt level speed. No brass flow and case heads were still measuring under my .482" max. With proper case support acp cases are plenty strong.

217714

[IllinoisCoyoteHunter]

Finally someone who has actually DONE this and can report on it (besides me lol). Years ago I caught a ton of flack on another forum for talking about this and actually posting my results. Glad to hear it has been working for you too and not just a fluke for me! :roll:

[No_1]

I love both of mine. My first was a S&W 625 my Father gave me that had the cylinder bored to spec by Clark in the 90's. It has seen XTP loads @1436 FPS but now relies on a steady diet of my go to load that consist of an average charge of AA7 which propels the 230 projectile to 1125 FPS.

My 2nd is a Springfield 1991A1 with Clark Custom 460 ROWLAND kit. The 1991A1 received a trigger job before i dropped the kit into it but has no other modification.

I really like the 1991A1 even though it is a bear to rack the slide compared to my other 1911's. It is fairly accurate as is but I am sure there is room for improvement. We'll see what happens once I tighten the slide to frame fit.

[retrobass]

Scroll down to post 1786 for a friendly reminder to proceed with caution. FWIW, there may be nobody living who has shot or loaded more 45 Super/ Rowland than the poster:

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/45-super.1382239/page-90

[KMac]

Scroll down to post 1786 for a friendly reminder to proceed with caution. FWIW, there may be nobody living who has shot or loaded more 45 Super/ Rowland than the poster:

https://www.glocktalk.com/threads/45-super.1382239/page-90

Any reports of this happening with a 1911 conversion? Or only with Glocks? I really want a Clark Conversion for my Kimber 1911.

[pmer]

I don't have a dog in this one but I went to that link because I like to try and keep tabs on failures when they are presented to me. In the last several pages there were 3 Glocks that went kaboom. Two had the same after market barrel and one was an admitted double charge. Luckily no serious injuries other than cuts and bruises. I didn't come away thinking any of the slides were at fault. But both slides where ruined.

Since Glocks are chambered in 9mm and 10mm which have max pressures of 34,000 and 37,000 PSI I would like to think their slides could handle .45 Super which is supposed to max at 28,000 PSI. I like the 45 Super but would probably go Rowland with its longer case to keep them from getting in a 45 ACP.

[BigMagShooter]

looks like too much fun for me...

[skeeter2]

Got to shoot the Rowland and all I have to say is “Wow!” This is not your grandma’s 45 auto. It was a healthy dose of longshot behind a 230 grain xtp. I have a lee mold that throws a 240 grain bullet. I have a bunch Hytek coated. I’m gonna load some of those next.