anyone near tulsa that can help w/ a lower?

[Oklahoma Rebel]

hey guys, I just got a aluminum (6160) lower for an ar15. its an 80% and needs the trigger group drilled out. I have hand drills and a router, could use the router with a mill type bit, I think also was wondering if any of you guys live around here, that could give some advice, I am only asking for advice, to be clear, thanks!!!!;)

[Steve E]

Need to be careful about paying someone to do the work for you on an unfinished receiver as the Gubmint can see that as manufacturing, not saying they will but I believe they can.

Steve..........

[oldred]

Yep what you are asking is actually very illegal for both you and and whoever you might find to do it for you, you just got on the internet an announced your intentions to commit a Federal offense and that's no joke! Buying an 80% kit and then hiring someone else to build it for you is a good way to get an expense paid vacation at one of the Government Grey Bar resorts!

No joke better rethink what you are doing there, the feds don't play around and they would love to make an example of someone with one of those evil nasty ARs!


The only (legal) way of doing that would be to find a 'Smith with a 07FFL BUT they would not only charge for doing it but would tack on the $75 manufacturing tax and stamp their info, a serial no. etc onto the receiver and then transfer it to you just like selling any other firearm. It would make far more sense and be a bunch cheaper to just buy a completed lower.

[Thin Man]

Somewhere about 2 years ago I had not less than three different people ask our shop about assembling an AR for them. Each one stated they had bought all of the parts to create (assemble, build, whatever) a finished AR but did not have the tools or experience to even start on the project. I politely but firmly answered each of these that I would NOT accept their project as it brushed too closely against the definition of manufacturing, and my FFL is not scheduled as a manufacturer. These requests all came within a 6 month period and I smelled the the regulators were looking to find who was out there willing to do this type of work. Not under my roof, thank you.

Then came another twist. A few months ago a young man came in with an AR pistol he claimed he had built. He appeared well groomed, intelligent and polite, just well versed in AR language. From the terms he used and his lack of knowledge about the AR system I finally got him to admit he had bought the pistol completely assembled. He wanted the receiver extension and barrel assembly removed, then replaced with his rifle components. Yes, I understand a pistol can be converted into a rifle, but not the other way around. I got that old familiar shiver in my spine and allowed him to leave all his parts at the shop but did nothing with them and immediately called our local BATFE office for discussion. The voice that answered the call stated this project could result in a "manufacturing" determination, or even an "NFA" determination. (Side note the barrel he brought in was 20".) From my reading of the codes this swap should be allowed. However (this is where it gets sticky), if personnel of the local office who oversee my work determine otherwise and throw a red flag at this project, this changes everything. The cost of lawyers, down time at court, a black mark in my R&R file and all the other inconveniences this would create will easily pass over my bill to the customer for having done this project for him. As soon as I finished this call I then called the customer and gave him the results of my call to BATFE, then asked him to immediately recover his materials. This was perhaps 30 minutes after he left the shop, was headed home and lives in an adjacent county. Curious, he was only a very short way from the shop when I called and was inside the door in 10 minutes. Things that make one say "Hmmm."

[lefty o]

you can have someone stand over your shoulder and instruct you how to do things, but you must do the work yourself.

[HATCH]

I can understand someone wanting to take the time to "build" a AR receiver themselves.
But if your really not going to do the work yourself, then why not just purchase a pre-made receiver?
You can get a Anderson lower for around $55.
Shipping should be about $20 and transfer fee another $20 so we are talking just $100

You might want to edit your post to reflect that you want to borrow a JIG vs have someone whom you pay help you....

[Smoke4320]

The people before me ^^^ have instructed you well .. heed their advice

[oldred]

You might want to edit your post to reflect that you want to borrow a JIG vs have someone whom you pay help you....

Even that is not allowed believe it or not! Although depending on the circumstances I seriously doubt it would be prosecuted in most cases and the borrower/builder would likely not be in trouble the feds have rules that covers that sort of thing, we can thank the "build parties" for that bit of nonsense. I am not sure how the law is worded but it is intended to prevent the "push a button" type of build using someone else's equipment and while a person could probably beat a simple case of this in court it would be VERY costly to do so.

The first scenario usually meets with some disagreement about both parties involved being guilty of the crime but the key word here is "THE" crime. Only the actual builder/machinist would be guilty of illegally manufacturing firearms without the proper license but the owner who hires him is complicit and also can be charged with possession of an illegally manufactured weapon.

A couple of high profile cases occurred not too long, the "Doctor Death" case where that guy who called himself Doctor Death on internet forums was not only selling receiver blanks but allowed people to come into his shop and set the receiver in the CNC machine, push the button to start the process and then stand there with their hand resting on the machine while it did the job. Supposedly by doing all this he was only renting the tools to the customer, rent or borrow makes no difference to the feds and cute little games in an attempt to circumvent the law won't cut it with them either! The other case was the well known California build party shop, they just mostly had the customer "push the button" and little else but they wound up in hot water over that one, "Doctor Death" apparently thought he could get away with it by having the customer (pretend) to do more of the work himself. In both cases builders who could be found had their rifles confiscated and the article I read about this said that they were told that they too could have faced a range of charges.

The bottom line is if you have an 80% lower then either do it yourself with your own tools or forget it, that's the only safe thing to do and because of people trying to push the limits we may not even be allowed to do that for very much longer. There has already been recent talk by the grabbers about so-called Ghost Guns that are (for now anyway) being legally built by individuals off the record without serial numbers and thus untraceable, this is one of those so-called Loopholes they want to close. Some of the federal agents are just itching to make an example out of someone so a person had best be very careful and don't take risks, the penalties are harsh with too many prosecutors and judges being anti-gun and not likely to show leniency.

[Texas by God]

I just got an email from Aim Surplus- Anderson lowers for $39.95. 80% lowers make no sense to me except for the "experience" of doing the machine work YOURSELF.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[HATCH]

I just got an email from Aim Surplus- Anderson lowers for $39.95. 80% lowers make no sense to me except for the "experience" of doing the machine work YOURSELF.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

I have access to a full blown machine shop and I am not gonna even waste my time machining a lower of I can buy one for $100 shipping and transfer fee included.

Unless your unable to purchase via 4473 or want to make a illegal machine gun, I see no point in machining a lower.

On the other hand, been thinking about 3D printing one though....

[Tackleberry41]

It depends on your jig, one I bought uses a router and came with a special really long end mill bit for use with a router. A standard mill bit will not go deep enough for thus purpose.

As for why anybody would go the 80% route, yes TODAY an anderson lower is $40 or even free at times. Was not long ago they were $250, plus ffl fees. I paid $40 for a billet 80% lower.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

going to go the gun show route.... just cut my losses, not worth all the hassle,

[Oklahoma Rebel]

can 80% be re-sold, if they are untouched?

[Omega]

can 80% be re-sold, if they are untouched?
Yes, it's just a hunk of aluminum right now. Finished 80%s can be sold as well, but some states make you give it a SN (not the Feds). You can't build 80% lowers with the intent to sell, but once you get bored with it you can sell it.

[Oklahoma Rebel]

thanks omega!, moderator hatch, would that be something deemed ok to put in swap and sell, or a "wont touch that with a ten foot pole" kinda thing, lol

[HATCH]

Yes, if the 80% lower has not been messed with then your fine on listing it in S&S
I would personally post pictures so everyone can see that its untouched.

I am gonna lock this thread up as you intend to sell it and I don't want anyone posting on here that they want to buy it.