.25acp Beretta Model question

[georgerkahn]

I went to a gunshow this morning where a .25acp Beretta pistol found a new (me :) ) owner. Here'a my question, which may be important when I register it next week: Seller lists it as a "Model 1939 Beretta semi-auto 2" barrel" on receipt. I, upon getting home, Googled "model 1939" to read about my new treasure -- finding ZERO reference to it. Going "back-wards", it appears I may have a Model 418 with a 2 1/2" barrel??? It has similar markings to thew Model 1934 vis made in Gardone, Kingdom of Italy, etc. On the slide and frame (starboard side) is imprinted its serial number, in the six hundred thousand range -- again, making me think it's a Model 418 from the 1930s??
I'm hoping someone on this site either may have knowledge of Beretta 25acp's -- possibly even owning one, and may help me out.
Thank you in advance!
geo

[Outpost75]

Photos would sure help!

[georgerkahn]

Photos indeed would help -- but, I cannot pick up pistol til I get it registered; never gave it a thought re possible model # snafu, or I could have snapped a few pix with my iPhone. The seller & pistol are now >130 miles away... Sorry.
geo

[Outpost75]

Does it look like THIS? 418 is a solid little gun.

216230

[eljefe]

Bluebook of gun values indicates that it may be a model 318, based on the
serial number range. The 418 is "similar to Model 318, but with loaded chamber indicator and grip safety (early type is semi-circular, late type is curved)," copied from bluebook. The 318 was also
manufactured in the 1930s which might explain why the seller called it a
model of 1939. I hope this helps.

[georgerkahn]

OUTPOST75 -- Yes, indeed, it looks almost like your photo, except I think the number is 1936, as opposed to the 1941 on yours. The serial number -- 629,xxx appears both on the frame, as well as slide, on starboard ("right") side of my new purchase.
eljefe -- I'm about to Google the "418"... may be lucky?

To both -- thanks -- with fresh snow on ground, I imagine seller has had/is having a challenge returning to his home. The more I think on it, I may telephone him tomorrow and hopefully get my concerns that I may register this pistol on my permit with serial number -- and nothing else -- correct. Does anyone know if Beretta made a .25acp with an even two-inch barrel?

Thanks!
geo

[eljefe]

I was doing a little more reading and think it is a 418.
It sure is a cool little gun. On another site, a poster
indicated that he got a factory letter from beretta calling
his a 418. It has an earlier serial number than your gun.

[georgerkahn]

eljefe -- thanks again! Yes, the seller bought "a bunch" of firearms from an elderly gent who is moving down south to enjoy his retirement away from snow and cold, and elected to convert some (or all?) of his firearms into cash. He told seller this pistol came to America after the war on a 194? Liberty Ship, in the the sea-bag of his great uncle. That's all the "history" known, but imho this surely adds to its "neatness"! The leather holster is in amazingly great shape -- just a tad dry, which Neats-foot oil will hopefully remedy -- for its age as well. I've never been a fan of "widow-makers"/.25acp pocket pistols -- but for this gem I'm happy to have changed my thinking :).
geo

[Outpost75]

The Beretta pistols of that era are well engineered, simple, well made and reliable. I have several M1934 and M1935s in 9mm Corto (.380 ACP) and 7.65mm Browning (.32 ACP) which are sturdy, reliable and accurate, having fewer parts than a Colt M1911.

[georgerkahn]

Marshall -- While I pray there is no credence to your query vis registration as perhaps a database for "eventual confiscation", it has more than become clear that firearms neither are always in the hands of responsible persons, nor are immune from both being stolen and used for not-so-good things, ranging from intimidation to theft to even murders. Along the time-line of this wonderful country, folks WE (actually, our forefathers) elected put laws in to effect to track the whereabouts of them. Similar to the registration of motor vehicles. And, as vehicle registration enables return/notification/identity of recorded owner, similar is for -- in my state -- handguns. I was quite surprised :( way back in the early 1970's when I learned the .45 revolver I had just purchased was someone elses' which had been stolen. (Sadly, I got but a receipt and lost the revolver as well as $$$ I gave for it) There is "more purpose" than your suggested one -- which I believe most all pray will NOT happen in the foreseeable future.
geo

[Dan Cash]

George, I am so sorry for you; your compass is off several degrees.

[Chev. William]

George, I am so sorry for you; your compass is off several degrees.

"Variation" and "deviation" is what the Compass error is called in Aviation and Marine circles.
Chuckling,
Chev. William

[Texas by God]

Mr Kahn lives in Upstate New York. He has to deal with a few more regs than some of us.
I love Beretta .25 autos- I'm constantly looking for a good deal on one! You got a nice one, George!

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[Outpost75]

Upstate NY is different from the Big Apple, but gun owners still have to put up with regs passed by Albany.

Pretty country once you get away from the city, but state politics are dominated by the big population centers, which is a shame.

That's why I live in a Constitutional Carry state and live far out of town where I can shoot out of my windows...

[Oklahoma Rebel]

I would love to have one in good ol 32 acp, I have always liked that caliber..... but for any other pistol calibers, go up about a tenth of an inch or more, lol. I shot a 25 acp once ( don't remember what kind) I DO remember being surprised at just how dang loud it was! good score on the gun, OP! have fun!-Travis

[georgerkahn]

Thank you for your understanding, and kind words, Texas by God! Where I reside there have been NO CC pistol permits granted in over three years! One county judge actually boasts how gun owners need be the best citizens, as even for the teeniest of infractions -- their guns are gone! I'm not going to embellish re my thoughts vis registration, etc -- this thread was started by me solely in the hopes of getting a bit of info on what appears to be a great addition to my wee collection. I once had a 22lr tiny automatic -- ?Exsam? -- which was traded with no tears at a time I was rather short of funds for various reasons -- mostly, ill son -- and when I spied this at show, it cried out "buy me!" How could I refuse? Assuming I do not try to chop off part of a finger trying to reload this diminutive cartridge -- reloading the .25acp seems like a fun addition to shooting it!

I wish to thank all who positively replied -- I'm of the notion that it is a Model 418 as opposed to the "1939" seller wrote on receipt. And, endeavoring to be a 101% honest, law-abiding chap, I will pay the $3.00 upon driving to the county seat and having my pistol permits amended to include this firearm. NO editorializing -- it's the way it is; no options here.

Thanks again -- can't wait to get it in my hands and see if I can hit a barn wall at ten feet with bullets from it!
geo

[Poygan]

You might find that it is surprisingly accurate for a small pistol.

[Texas by God]

Regarding .25 ACP accuracy I have head shot bowling pins with a Beretta Jetfire and head shot a squirrel with a Raven MP25 at twenty odd feet. I had a Galesi that would put its whole magazine in an inch @ ten feet. They are suprising little critters. You are welcome, George- keep us posted on the new "noseblower"- as we call the .25's!
100% with you, Outpost.

[PB234]

Does it have an extractor? Or put another way how does one get a chambered round out of it if desired to do so?

[georgerkahn]

PB234 & Texas by God -- First, re extractor -- good question -- I checked out Gun Parts Corp and they show an extractor for this pistol216316 which I attached to this -- so I assume rounds may readily be removed other than only by shooting. God willing, I will be taking physical possession of my new toy on Saturday or Sunday -- and, I'll endeavor to then take and post a photo of it. From Texas by God's shooting testimony -- I'm excited to attempt determining the accuracy potential it has. The dealer -- also in his years -- made an interesting note in the forty years or so he's been dealing "guns", almost all the .22 and .25 pocket pistols he's had appear to have been carried a lot, while shot ever so little. He added, too, that he believes this very model was the very first pistol used by James Bond in the early 007 movies, before it was replaced by the Walther PPK. Thank you... I'll post a photo, and if the Desolation Dust (e.g., snow) doesn't continue to prohibit driving to shooting area at range -- I may even hope to try a few magazines... geo

[Texas by God]

You are correct about 007. When "Q"gave him the PPK, he chided JB about his Beretta .25s lack of power- If IRC!

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[georgerkahn]

As requested, here are two photos of the pistol, along with one of the 1936-manufactured holster which came with it.
geo
216595216596216597

[Poygan]

BTW, there is no extractor on the Jetfire.

[georgerkahn]

BTW, there is no extractor on the Jetfire.

I believe the Jetfire, aka Model 950, was manufactured by P Beretta starting in (I think?) 1952 or 1953. The model I chanced upon was the one which preceeded it, with the patent date -- in Italiano, "Brevettato" followed by year in both Julian Calendar as well as the Fascist-calendar Roman numerals. Anglo translation of mine indicates simply that it was patented in 1939. I am definitely NOT a gunsmith, and ignorant re whether an extractor is present - I have yet to disassemble my new toy. However, as I noted in my post #21, here above, Numrich (aka Gun Parts Corp) both indicates there is one in the Model 418, and even offers a picture of it. Now 20* here -- first dry day above freezing, and I'll take it to range -- hopefully a learning, as well as fun outing.

geo

YOU ARE INDEED CORRECT -- the 950 has an ejector, but they list naught re an extractor. Thanks for this info! geo

[Texas by God]

Only the tip up barrel models were sans extractor. All auto pistols have ejectors.

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[georgerkahn]

Thank you, Texas by God, for your succinct words -- I've never heard it expressed so well! I knew my tip-up barrel .32acp does not have an extractor; again, NOT a gunsmith, I was not aware it was an across the board phenomena. The actual "innards" of a firearm being a second order variable to the prime one: that it functions flawlessly. I'm hoping this one will be at that level :). The only "flaw" I've so far noted is the screw attaching the port-side (left) grip appears to have both a tad-too-large-diameter head, which also looks slightly boogered -- as you can clearly see in pictures I've posted. I'll be seeking a replacement screw, but if not findable, I suspect I can machine the screw present to make it look better, this assuming it is of correct thread.
geo

[georgerkahn]

Marshall -- While personally, I cannot agree with you more, I believe I would have too much to give up / lose should I attempt driving about in an unregistered motor vehicle; and, carry about an unregistered handgun. I sadly know first-hand of a nice .45 revolver which was sold to me that was apparently stolen. IF it was returned to its rightful owner, I never was informed. I was simply giving the choice of swapping the revolver for a paper receipt, or being charged with possession of stolen property -- not a tough choice to make. I was being a tad tongue-in-cheek with the very statement you quoted re our elected officials.
To see "HOW" it is in northern New York, you may wish to read our laws in Albany region: https://ecode360.com/7682475
I did not start this thread to do anymore than get some info on my new toy; and ever so appreciate the info generously given by those on this forum who replied. I'm retired, and most sadly do not have the wherewithal to move to a less gun-hating state, much less with a bum leg, the physical ability so to do. I laud your sentiments, and hopefully you, as well as others, can and will enact a change by, at the least, going to the polls and casting votes for those who at the least approximate our firearm-related desires. Perhaps -- on this site -- you might even start a new thread to get things going?
BEST!
geo

[Outpost75]

George,
I have relatives in the Adirondack region and love the country, but chose to live elsewhere. I sympathize, and support you because those who believe they can be sovereign citizens are living on fantasy island, because the "gummint" already has their metadata... Cheers and beers.

[Chev. William]

My "Wild" .25ACP loads are:
50 grain FMJ ahead of 3.1 grains of BE-86 and WSP primers at .905" OAL.
63 grain LEAD FP ahead of 3.0 grains of BE-86 and WSP primers at .905" OAL.
I shoot them out of a Ruger Custom .25ACP Single Eight revolver with a 10-5/8" long barrel (~12" muzzle to frame recoil face) Built on a converted .22CAL Ruger Convertible Single Six Frame.
I estimate the Pressures at around 25,000psi to 30,000psi MAP.
I have not Chronographed the Loads yet.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[spfd1903]

@georgekahn,

OK, no more comments about NY laws. Being a masochist, I reload 25 ACP to keep myself in (reasonably priced) ammo. I have plenty of tips and ideas if you want to get into this. One of the main things you will want is a custom Lee taper FCD to make sure the finished rounds chamber properly. The other main problem(s) are getting cases and projectiles. Because the cases are so small and look like 22LR cases on the ground the loss rate of cases is high. You can spread out a tarp, or capture the cases in a net if you really want to get most of your cases back. I lucked up a couple of years ago and found several thousand primed cases and 50 gr FMJ projectiles online at a good price. I have a number of loading I have worked up that take the round from anemic factory levels to slightly wild, but still within SAAMI limits. I also shoot cast bullets that I make in 44 gr (HP) and 46 gr (solid) weights. Admittedly, it is a labor of love, but for me at least, I find it is only slightly more work than reloading larger calibers like 32 ACP and 380 ACP. I fire these rounds in a Beretta Jetfire 950BS which is a wonderful little pistol. Enjoy your new pistol.

Marshall

Thanks for the .25 ACP reloading tips. Just got a Colt pistol with a nickel finish at a LGS. Over the years I have picked up about a hundred pieces of brass, and bought six varieties of loaded ammo to try out. Been debating about reloading...and casting?