LEE expander dies with NOE nipples

[handloder]

Will the NOE (noebulletmoulds.com) expander nipples work properly in both the Lee universal expanding die and the Lee powder through die? They are sold/labelled for the universal die. Anybody using these NOE nipples instead of the Lyman 'M' die? I have worn out the .38P nipple on my Lyman 'M' die, but Lyman won't sell you a replacement nipple, you have to buy the complete stem. I don't need more stems, just nipples.

[nicholst55]

Why don'y you ask Swede?

[Rcmaveric]

The NOE expanders in the Lee die work great i use them. However they are not hallow so i am not sure if the work in the powder through die. NOE used to offer NOE powder through expander plugs, but i haven't seen them available. Shoot them an email and see.

[Jniedbalski]

The noe expanders in lee dies do work great . But they won’t work in the lee powder through die. They Are not hollow. Noe did at one time ,I saw a few on there site ,powder through expander plugs . I haven’t seen them for a while.

[Bzcraig]

It will work in the universal expanding die but not the powder through die, the internal depths are different.

[handloder]

Sorry, I should have clarified. I don't use the powder through feature of the Lee die, only the expander feature. I don't quite understand Bzcraig's comment about the internal depth being different. On the powder through die, the expander nipple moves freely during operation. Thus, the amount of expansion is controlled by the adjustment of the die body. On the universal die, the expander nipple 'depth' is controlled by the seating stem adjustment, not the die body. So, I don't care if the NOE nipple is hollow, do they work in both Lee dies properly as expander nipples only?

[dragon813gt]

No, they don't work. The dies are different and the expanders require different dimensions to work in the powder through dies. Bzcraig's post explained why.

[wrench]

I've tried the NOE expander plugs in a Lee powder through expander body, and they fit fine. I even made a little spacer to keep them from moving up and down in the body. You will have to adjust the amount of flare with the die body, which isn't ideal but it works.

[Moonie]

I have some of the old powder through NOE expanders, they work very well in the lee powder through expander body. I hate that Al stopped making them. I have them for 9mm, 38/357, 40 and 45 I believe.

[handloder]

Here's the correct answer.
Bzcraig is correct, wrench isn't. Bzcraig's explanation needs expansion. The Lee powder through dies are apparently somewhat caliber specific. If you try to insert a .458 NOE expander nipple into a Lee .30cal powder through die, the nipple will not fall through the .30 hole, so there's the real problem. I bought a Lee universal expander die and it indeed has an oversized 'hole' that the NOE nipples of all calibers will fit through before hitting the 'stop' shoulder. Apparently, the designers at Lee felt the powder through idea needed a tighter fit between the expander nipple and the die body to assure proper powder feeding (that's my guess).
If you decide to use the Lee universal die, you will need to use the Lee large caliber tapered nipple as a spacer to hold the NOE nipple firmly in the die body (bacause the Lee seating stem will not reach the NOE nipple).
As a final note, when I used a new Lee universal die in my Hornady Projector press the Lee die body had poorly cut 7/8"x14 threads (I had to use a pliers to fully seat the die). In fact, adjusting the die body is your only way to set the expansion depth of the cartridge mouth. I found that when expanding 9mm cases that the Lee die body (when fully seated against the Hornady shell plate) would only just touch the 'high' step of the NOE nipple! Is this NOE's fault or Lee's? You'll either have to have your gunsmith cut off 0.050 - 0.100" of the Lee die or move the 'stop' shoulder of the NOE nipple back the same distance. Either solution will allow adequate adjustability to fully use both steps of the NOE nipple(s). I think I'll cut the Lee die short and leave all my NOE nipples in factory new condition.
And that's the rest of the story.

[Boogedy_Man]

I use them in universal dies and in powder through dies.

It's not nearly as complicated as one would think reading this thread.

[mattw]

So... if one has the caliber specific powder thru body, then one could use the NOE expander for that caliber... just not a large one? I have several of the dies and realize the hole in the bottom is reduced to all for less wobble of the brass going in and out of the die. But, for example... one could use the NOE 9mm in the 9mm powder thru die? Would not want to have to buy a bunch of the universal expanders if not needed. And no, I do not use the powder thru feature.

[MyFlatline]

I use the nipple in both, for the powder thru, yes I they are caliber specific but all of my dies are pretty much caliber specific

[mattw]

Thanks, that is what I understood. I have mostly Lyman M dies, but a few sets have the Lee powder thru and I hate to just chuck the die.

[bedbugbilly]

Soooo . . . how much is a new Lyman stem for your M die going to be? If your M die works, I don't understand why you'd be worried about not being able to just buy the expander plug from them. Put the new on in and if you don't want the old one, toss it. After all, unless you're using the M die body with another stem for another caliber, the M die is going to be "laying around". Not trying to be difficult, just trying to figure out why you'd switch fi the M die has worked well.

That said, all I've ever heard abut the NOE expanders has been very good. If I didn't already have M dies and expanders, I would go that route but in the long run, for me, it would be spending dollars to "upgrade", so to speak, to go to the NOE and I'd still be in the same spot only with new expanders that work just as well as my old ones.

Give NOE a call and talk with them Their products are top notch - I have a number of their molds and have always been pleased with the quality of their products and the service.

[mattw]

I said, I have M dies for most calibers... I also have several Lee power thru's and do not like them. After a polish of the buffer, some of them still seem to shave a little brass. They should never shave brass! If this is an option, I may try a couple and see if that stops the problem. I will call and talk with them, their moulds are top notch... only have 4 but really like them.

[handloder]

For bedbugbilly:
The original problem was Lyman wouldn't sell just an 'M' die nipple - they wanted you to buy the entire expander stem! Since one stem fits all 'M' die bodies, I don't want to spend good money on redundant die parts. So I have now found out that the Lee Universal (not powder through) die coupled with individual caliber specific NOE expander nipples is the way to go. It's working fine for me.

[handloder]

I had the following private message:
[[[QUOTE=Grmps - Sat, 17 Nov 2018 16:42:50 +0000]I've been a little confused about this.
what size (sizes) NOE expander nipple would I need for a boolit sized .309?

a .308 x .304 Exp. Plug
or .312 x .308 Exp. Plug
or .313 x .309 Exp. Plug

I think I read somewhere that you get the size of the boolit and the brass will shrink down a thou making a perfect fit.

Is the first measurement the flare and the second the body of the plug?]]

my response is:
I would choose the .312 x .309 nipple. the .312 is the diameter of the 'flare' step, the .309 is the diameter of the shank step of the expander nipple. I assume you're sizing your brass sufficiently to allow the nipple to properly do its expander work. Some sizing dies, like the Redding neck sizing donuts, may not size a case sufficiently to create adequate 'grip' on the bullet. the .312 x .309 has worked well for me from .30-30 to .300 mags (all in bolt guns). I've not tried this nipple for calibers cycled through semiautos (exception: .30 M1 carbine where it worked fine). I reserve the Redding die for jacketed bullets only (mostly because I want the flare to create shaveless bullet seating with cast bullets).
You might consider the .313 x .309 if the bullets are going to be firmly gripped with a roll crimp, like most .30-30 cast bullets.

[toallmy]

I use Lyman m dies , lee flaring dies with NOE plugs , and lee powder through expander dies , all of my Lyman m dies needed custom expander plugs for fat cast boolits . NOE expander plugs are a very nice and affordable .

[Taterhead]

NOE hit a homerun with this concept. An economical tool to dial in the internal neck dimensions that we need. So many of the off-the-shelf dies leave the cast bullet loader in no-mans-land regarding neck dimensions.

[tucumcari_kid]

This setup worked for me, probably accidentally, as I waited for the universal expansion die. I took the Lee 30 Luger powder through expansion die and dropped out the Lee plug and dropped in the NOE plug. NOE is too short to work as the native plug. So for fun, I dropped in the NOE, reversed the Lee plug and resembled... Luckily the Lee nipple just fit the hole in the cap. Only problem is the expansion is taking place outside the die. I then backed the die out of the press so that running the case all the way into the die expanded it properly when the arm bottomed out. Worked perfectly for a temp job. Any steel or aluminum blank cut to the right length that you could fit into the die would allow it to be run as intended but no powder thru feature.
236715
236716

Note this is the .311 x .307 RIFLE plug in the Lee 30 Luger pistol die. I have no idea what difference that makes, but I made this work.

[tucumcari_kid]

NOE .311x.307 rifle plug works great with 30 Luger (Lee 30 Mauser/30 Luger dies) sized to .309 btw