Thoughts on Old Levergun Calibers

[KirkD]

Over the lunch hour today, I decided to go for a walk down to the river to get the blood circulating before I headed back to work. As I was walking back up the grass path, with cornfields on either side of me, I realized that, after several years of buying, selling and trading, I had eventually settled on certain old calibers that, for me, are my favorites. These are the calibers that, now that I have them, I've at long last found contentment.

We won't all have the same pet calibers, but for me, these are the ones that somehow have the greatest nostalgic attraction. To see these old leverguns in these calibers hanging on my wall invokes images of old cedar rail fences, the smell of woodsmoke curling out of a farm house chimney, fall mornings, an old John Deere tractor retired under a blaze orange Maple tree and Whitetail deer cautiously venturing onto a harvested cornfield looking for stray cobs. Here are my favorite calibers and some of the guns they come in. I use cast bullets in all of them and have not bought commercial ammo in years. Each one gives me a special pleasure to shoot or to hunt with.

32 W.C.F. (otherwise known as the 32-20):
Another farm family, just 4 miles from our farm, had an old Marlin leveraction rifle in 32-20. One of my best friends, Alvin, grew up on that farm and one of his older brothers became my brother-in-law eventually. One day, Alvin showed me a new box of 32-20 ammo he had bought. I don't know if it was those little cartridges or that old Marlin that hooked me, but ever since, I wanted a 32-20. I've owned a couple 32-20's and have found it to be my favorite small game cartridge. The one I've settled on is an original Winchester Model 65 shown below ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/Model-65-Full-Plain-800.jpg

44 W.C.F. (otherwise known as the 44-40):
When I was a kid, my grandpa was over one day and started talking about the 44-40. He said the bullet moved so slow, you could catch it in a baseball glove (my grandpa exaggerated sometimes). I'd never heard of such a round before, but it sounded fascinating to me. If that old bullet moved that slow, then it must punch like the dickens to make up for it, I figured. I don't know what it is. Maybe it is that short, fat cartridge and that wide lead bullet. It's probably also the long history of this old cartridge that has great appeal to me as well. Anyway, I don't ever want to be without a 44-40. My current example is an original Winchester model 1892 made in 1913 .....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/600pix92.jpg

The venerable 38-55:
The old-timers where I grew up in central Manitoba all seemed to swear by the 38-55 when it came to Elk. By gum, I had to have one. As a teenager, I'd get ammo catalogues from the local shooting supplies store and look longingly at the picture of the 38-55 cartridge (as well as the 44-40). That long, almost straight-walled case and that 255 grain bullet was a-calling to me. The very first levergun I ever owned was a Wincheter model 1894 that letters as shipped in 1899, with a full octagon barrel. I still have that old rifle and never plan to sell it. A few years back, I bagged a Whitetail buck with that old timer. Nothing beats taking game with an original vintage rifle. Here's a photo of it, along with a Winchester SRC in the same caliber, lettered as having been shipped in 1907. I am doggoned happy with these two 38-55's ...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/38_55-Oct.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/38-55-SRC.jpg

The 45-70:
The 45-70 cartridge was another one that I'd often linger over in those ammo catalogues. I suppose I've got a weakness for these old black powder cartridges. What fascinated me about the 45-70 was its big, wide, heavy bullet. I've owned 6 different 45-70's over the years and still own 3. There was a brief period of time about two years ago when I didn't have one. Talk about withdrawal pains. When I finally got a replacement, I knew that never again did I want to be without a 45-70. Here's some photos of two that I currently have. The first is an original Winchester 1886 Takedown shipped in 1901 and the second one is also an 1886 with a full octagon barrel and half mag that letters as having bee received in the warehouse in 1904.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/86-Takedown.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/86-half-mag.jpg

The 30 W.C.F. (otherwise known as the 30-30):
A lot of farmers in our area had 30-30's either in Winchester or Marlin. The 30-30 had class and I would often practice drawing a Winchester Model 94 as a young teenager whenever I found a blank piece of paper and some spare time. The local store had them for $99. For a 13-year old farm kid, however, $99 was an almost unreachable sum of money. Believe it or not, I didn't get my first 30-30 until the age of 53. Here it is, a Winchester Model 94 made in 1954, the same year I was born.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/Old-Savage.jpg

Here's a photo of my favourite cartridges. From left to right we have the 32-20, then the 44-40, then the 30-30, followed by the 38-55 and, last of all, the 45-70.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/fav-carts.jpg

Well, that's just a few thoughts about my favorite calibers. I have to admit that I don't have a hankerin' for any more; these are the ones, at least for leverguns. As for single actions, well it's the 44 Russian and the 45 Schofield, but that's a different topic.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Thanks for posting the Pictures. I think you need to add one more Lever Gun to your collection. An 1887 Winchester would round it our quite well.

Sam :-D

[KirkD]

Sam, do you mean the 1885 single shot, or the 1887 shotgun? I'd love either, but those original, big bore 1885's are dadgummed expensive. Runner ups as far as cartridges go would be the 38-72 in a tapered barrel 1895 or a 38-56 in an '86.

[badgeredd]

A fine lot of old shootin' iron.

I know what you mean about the old cartridge lure and appeal. Lately I have been thinking I need to peddle some of my more modern guns to get some older ones. It all started with me getting into casting. I have a couple speed demons I'll keep but I am going to pare down the modern weapons in favor of some older ones.

Great pictures! Someday when I grow up, I hope I can get better at photography too.

[KirkD]

I have to admit that I don't own a modern rifle. My newest one is the 30-30 made in 1954. My oldest one is a Trapdoor made in 1891. I don't miss the modern rifles at all.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Sam, do you mean the 1885 single shot, or the 1887 shotgun? I'd love either, but those original, big bore 1885's are dadgummed expensive. Runner ups as far as cartridges go would be the 38-72 in a tapered barrel 1895 or a 38-56 in an '86.


KirkD,

1887, I have one in 12 ga. DOM 1892 I love it. Shoot Magtech Brass with BP Loads. I want a '85 in 38-55.

Sam :-D

[KirkD]

Sam, I envy you with that 1887. A couple years ago, the local shooting shop had one in real nice condition for $600. I was a little tight for cash at the time and passed it up. It went like hotcakes. I've kicked myself ever since.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

Man alive $600 I'm in the process of trying to get a second one for $1200. Love that gun. Ain't nothin better than Stoking it up and leaving all around in a Cloud of BP Smoke! :-)

Sam :-D

[crabo]

Nice pictures and narritive. Thanks for posting them.

[6pt-sika]

Naturally my favourites will all be on Marlin actions as far as levers are concerned but here goes !

I am very partial to a certain old Marlin 1894 in 32-20 that was made in 1906 ! This one came to me from Collectors Firearms in Houston !
In this picture the 32-20 is in the middle ! Above it is a Marlin 1894 in 38-40 circa 1908 if memory serves and the one on the bottom is a Marlin model 92 in 32 Long Colt or rim depending on the firing pin !
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DSCN0042-small.jpg

Next would have to be my old circa 1906 Marlin 1893 in 32-40 , killed a nice little 3 point whitetail with it three seasons ago shooting a cast bullet ! This rifle came from the Scranton PA area . I knew about this rifle and looked at it a bunch of times before I finally bought it ! First saw it in a gunshop there and finally bought it from the gunshop about a year later !
My 32-40 is in the middle in this picture ! At the top is a 38-55 from 1894 , and then a 32 Special from about 1910 . Below the 32-40 are first a 30-30 of 1906 vintage and a 25-36 Marlin on the bottom also of 1906 vintage.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DSCN0041-small.jpg

I have a Marlin 336SC circa 1950 in 32 Special that I'm kinda partial to ! Also killed a deer with this one and a cast bullet about 5 years ago ! This little rifle was on Gunbroker and came from Wyoming or Idaho (can't remmember any longer).
In this photograph the 32 Specail 336SC is secone from the top ! Above it is a circa 1952 in 35 REM . First below the 32 Special is a 336SC 1952 vintage in 30-30 , below that is a Marlin 36SC in 30-30 and at the bottom my old Model 1936 in 32 Special !
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DSCN0118-small-1.jpg

Now comes the bigger ones ! I have a circa 1897 Marlin 1895 in 38-56 that is in really nice shape ! Used this one to kill a deer with a cast bullet two seasons ago . I got this rifle from Leroy Merz in Minnesota about three years ago !
My 38-56 is in the middle of this picture ! Above it is my 40-65 and below a 33 WCF !
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DSCN0052.jpg


I'm kinda partial to FOUR Marlin 444's I own . They were made in 1965 , 1968 and a pair from 1971 ! These came from Virginia , North Carolina , Minnesota and Maine ! Not killed anyhting with any of them yet ! But I have each one setup with a different cast bullet for the upcoming season !
In this picture are my four "old" 444's ! At the top is what I refer to as the "Second Model" intage 1971 the first year of production for that model ! The three below are all what is referred to as "First Models" and the one below the second model is circa 1971 as well , the last year of production for the first model . Next below those is a First Model circa 1968 and the one on the bottom is a First Model circa 1965 which happens to be the first year of production for the 444 first model or any other model !
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DSCN0030.jpg

And my last lever favourite has to be the 45-70 . Sorry to say I don't own an "original" model 1895 in this caliber . But I do own a nice old "New Model 1895" that is circa 1978 and just happens to be set up for deer with cast bullets also .
Here's a pic of my "New Model 1895" circa 1978 ! Got his one from a meber here I do believe !
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/DSCN0205-1.jpg

There are others i like well enough ! But these are my picks from the older guys and I'm not so sure the 444 falls in that group ! Although it's over 40 years old now [smilie=1:

[PatMarlin]

Great story and nice iron and wood.

I love those levers. Waited to long to get into Winchersters with the current prices.

Here's a deal-

Friend has a Marlin 36 C in 30-30 with mint bore and about 87% blue. Wood a little worn.

$375

[9.3X62AL]

Great thread subject, Kirk--and some fine photography as well.

I'm a huge fan of the hyphenated WCF calibers, and have a bevy of them in the safe--mostly leverguns. 25-20, 30-30, 32-20, 44-40, and 45-70 get a lot of range time by yours truly. That all these are naturals for the poured boolit doesn't hurt their chances for going afield--quite the contrary, in fact.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Thanks for sharing,

I too have a soft spot for the old originals; however this rebuilt '92 in 44 Special came from a dear departed friend. Completely rebuilt from 2 old actions, it was his pride & joy

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/44spl_A.jpg

[KirkD]

6-pt, a modern Marlin 1895 made in 1978 is a very nice rifle and bordering on vintage. Bad Ass, I like that '92. It has a strong action so you can load up those 44 Specials to make them extra steamy.

[Johnw...ski]

Really beautiful pictures, I actually found myself admiring the background and missing the rifles. What a shame, those rifles shouldn't be missed, they're real beauties.

John

[6pt-sika]

Here's a photo of my favourite cartridges. From left to right we have the 32-20, then the 44-40, then the 30-30, followed by the 38-55 and, last of all, the 45-70.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/fav-carts.jpg

Well, that's just a few thoughts about my favorite calibers. I have to admit that I don't have a hankerin' for any more.


I like your selection :-D

However I think you need just one more perhaps [smilie=1:

How about a nice old Winchester 1886 in 50-110 or 50-100 :drinks:

[KirkD]

Now that is a Marlin collection!! .... and a real pleasure to look at, 6-pt. Thanks for posting those photos. That old Marlin 32-20 looks very similar to the Marlin 32-20 that my neighbour had that got me hooked on the 32-20 cartridge. I've often thought about starting a small collection of vintage Marlins, but my tiny Winchester collection has kept me poor enough. I'd be overjoyed to add a 50-110 or a 50-anything vintage Winchester to my collection, but unless one drops out of the sky, I don't see it happening.

[405]

Oh my, I've a real sweet tooth for the old levers. Really can't pick one- love them all!

As far as cartridges.... the easiest to load and shoot of course are the 38-40 and 44-40. Got a Win 73 in 38-40 with a superb bore that shoots so well it's hard to load something it won't shoot well. It's in such good condition I have to give max extra attention when loading for and shooting the old girl. Then the 76 classics--- both in 45-75. Got to hang in there with Rafe Covington (Crossfire Trail) and the RCMP issues. Mine are regular rifles and those were carbines. 76 Carbines in top shape are scarcer than chickens that whistle. As with 73s got to be extra cautious when loading and shooting- they're darn near priced/valued right out of shooter category!!! The 45-75 is about like loading for the 43 Spanish but the brass is expensive and the toggle link action as in the 73s is simply not as forgiving as the rolling block- but ohhhh what classics the Centennial models are!

The Win 92s in 25-20, 38-40 and 44-40 are as easy to load for as the 73 but the 92 is way, way! stronger so don't have to pucker each time the hammer drops.

Then there're the Win 95s in 30-40, 35 WCF and 405. Talk about git-r-done type rifles.... TR was no fool! They too are strong and in the 35 and 405 what horsepower in 100 year old levers!!

Not far behind in power are the 86s in 33 WCF. The 33 is no slouch cartridge and is often overlooked- too bad.... the 33 I have is uncanny for cast bullet accuracy and it's a takedown model to boot- go figure? The 45-70 is an excellent cartridge in the 86 and is another easy-to-load-for gun/cast bullet cartridge combo.

Then finally the 71s. The last of the great Winchester levers IMO and possibly the best lever gun ever. The 348 is plenty hoss and is still used and highly regarded in the North country. The 348 is another very good cast bullet cartridge.

So yes, some thoughts on the levers. They wreak with history and nostalgia. Truly my weakness and passion.

[6pt-sika]

Then finally the 71s. The last of the great Winchester levers IMO and possibly the best lever gun ever. The 348 is plenty hoss and is still used and highly regarded in the North country. The 348 is another very good cast bullet cartridge.



I have one Winchester 1894TD in 30-30 of about 1905 vintage . Used to have a few others . But as you can see I am Marlin POOR !

I would however like to have a nice Winchester model 71 and OF COURSE I'd like a model 1886 in 45-90 and or 50-110 !

I had a pretty nice old Winchester 1876 in 50-95 in my hands couple years ago ! But lets just say there 6500 small reasons i couldn't get that one :roll:

[barnaclebill]

Oh my, I've a real sweet tooth for the old levers. Really can't pick one- love them all!


Same here --I just cannot resist the old levers. I saw an old Winchester '71 hanging in a gun shop the other day and have decided that it is next. I thank you for all the advice on my Sharps and Spencer and have cast probably 1000 bullets for them. I just could not stop. It was so much fun that I decided to cast bullets for some of my lever actions starting with the big ones.
I have some lever actions [original] that I want to cast bullets for.

Winchester 1886 45-70
Winchester 1886 40-82
Marlin 45 govt. I think 45-70

Looking through the dies available it instantly became very apparent that I did not know how to choose the proper one. My Sharps and 45-70 Springfield , being single shot rifles the decision was easy with all the advice from you but for a lever action I have to insure that the cartridge will feed correctly. How do I choose a design and size of a bullet? Blunt end, pointed end, rounded end, how heavy? How long? and are lever action bullets pan lubed the same as my single shot bullets? OR--Do I just cast as I would for my single shots after casting the chamber and bore?I looked at an old box of 45-70s that I purchased many years ago and they are 300GR for my Trap Door Springfield but the 45 cal bullets for my Sharps are 500 GR. I think I am missing a critical bit of info venturing into the lever actions. After I get these first ones figured out I have lots more lever actions I would like to cast for. This is just way too much fun. Just point me to the proper forum if I am in the wrong place but what great pictures here.
Thanks BB

[Rustolium]

Love the write-up Kirk! I look forward to what you write on other forums as well!

[Bret4207]

I note a decided lack of Savages here. If I resolve my current broo-ha-ha with my local gunshop, (he SOLD my M-14 Remington 32!!!!!, says he didn't know I had money down on it!!! Thats the second or third time!) I'll have 2 more Savages to add to my Marlin and Winchester collection.

[missionary5155]

This is my only lever down here. A Winny 44-40 SRC made in 1893 27xxx. Favors a .434 260 grain soft (Rapine mold) with 8 grains Unique. This is my desert loafing rifle.

[KirkD]

Bret, if you or anyone else has some old Savages that you think we'd enjoy, please post them here on this thread. I, for one, like vintage Savages as well (and Marlins) and always enjoy nice photos of them.

Missionary, that is a beautiful carbine. Thanks for the photo!

[LIMPINGJ]

? for 6pt-sika, did the 92 Marlin in 32 cal come from the factory set up to shoot RF and CF? The reason I ask is my brother ask me about one he is looking at. He ask me about getting any 32RF ammo. Were they all set up to use both kinds of amm from the factory. If they will all handle the CF ammo I will tell him to get it as I can load him some ammo.

[goon]

Awesome pics - thanks for the stories too.

Like you, I've also owned a lot of guns and am starting to settle down to a few that I really like.
My tastes don't run quite as "primitive" as yours but I do have a Marlin 30-30 that I love and I know I'll need at least one .45-70 and a 1894 in .357 before I'm through.

And I just bought a SIG P-226 the other day. It was in excellent shape for a really good price so I jumped at the chance. A P-226 was one of my "holy grail" guns in the beginning but that was ruined by a bad example. Although there isn't anything wrong with this one, I also don't see what the big deal is anymore. My .357 is a much more satisfying and practical choice for me.
Point is, I'm also thinking that maybe "modern" isn't all it's cracked up to be.

[goon]

Then finally the 71s. The last of the great Winchester levers IMO and possibly the best lever gun ever. The 348 is plenty hoss and is still used and highly regarded in the North country. The 348 is another very good cast bullet cartridge.

A local shop has a really nice 71 on the shelf for $1300. It's way out of my price range and quite frankly, it's far too nice for someone like me to own it.
But I did take a look at it and the fit and finish were incredible, practically artwork. That rifle locks up like a bank vault and when I cycled the action I could tell that someone had taken great care in building it. Sad to say we really don't get that kind of quality anymore.

[barnaclebill]

A local shop has a really nice 71 on the shelf for $1300. It's way out of my price range and quite frankly, it's far too nice for someone like me to own it.
But I did take a look at it and the fit and finish were incredible, practically artwork. That rifle locks up like a bank vault and when I cycled the action I could tell that someone had taken great care in building it. Sad to say we really don't get that kind of quality anymore.

Where is this shop? Sounds like something I really just cannot do without.

[9.3X62AL]

I didn't bring up the Savage 99 I have in 250-3000, 'cause its chambering really doesn't fit with the hyphenated WCF calibers under discussion. GREAT rifle, and a cast boolit MACHINE with its 1-14" twist rate, but kind of on a different plane than the WCFs.

There was a 1899 in 25-35 that got away, a takedown that wasn't terribly accurate but would have made a great (and simple) platform for barrel swaps to other 30-30 class calibers. I didn't have a whole ton of money in it, but it was worth so much to several people who made offers on it that I was reluctant to hunt with it. A gun I'm reluctant to hunt with doesn't last around here very long, so down the road it went.

Same deal with an '86 in 33 WCF, a takedown Featherweight variant with 22" barrel. A pretty serious collector of 86s got wind that I had it, and made some pretty serious offers for the gun--it filled a hole in his collection. Again reluctant to take something afield that had LOTS of cash value, I sold it to the collector after running 400-500 rounds through it, jacketed and cast. I liked the caliber a lot, and have thought that a good gunsmithing project would be to take a modern Marlin 95 and make it into a 33 WCF, 348, or 40-82 +P. But the Marlin in 45-70 is just so darn good, what's the point? The 45-70 is alive and well after 135 years, but the others are either dead or getting CPR--so, never mind.

[wellshoot!]

A local shop has a really nice 71 on the shelf for $1300. It's way out of my price range and quite frankly, it's far too nice for someone like me to own it.
But I did take a look at it and the fit and finish were incredible, practically artwork. That rifle locks up like a bank vault and when I cycled the action I could tell that someone had taken great care in building it. Sad to say we really don't get that kind of quality anymore.
Saw another great '71 a couple months ago at a Cabela's near St Louis in .375.
One a these days........

[barnaclebill]

Go For It----You only live once and you can't take it with you......Cash in the CDs and buy old lever guns and instead [better return on investment too] Can't have fun with a CD. They don't look to good on the wall either. Looking at all those great pictures really got me stirred up to get some more. BB

[9.3X62AL]

No kidding, Bill. This place has cost me more money than theme parks did when I had the kids at home.

Fact is--I have enough off-the-wall calibers rattling around in the gun safe to satisfy the most esoteric trivia enthusiast. Too many, perhaps--how many others here load the M-1935 French 7.65 MAS pistol? The 45-70 is refreshingly easy to load for and find components to do so with, and things have REALLY improved with the 32-20 WCF over the past few years--that Starline brass in 32-20 is first-rate.

[405]

Go For It----You only live once and you can't take it with you......Cash in the CDs and buy old lever guns and instead [better return on investment too] Can't have fun with a CD. They don't look to good on the wall either. Looking at all those great pictures really got me stirred up to get some more. BB

barnaclebill,
So true! Here's a Win 71 Dlx manuf. 1941. If the grand poohba dictated only one factory lever to own/shoot/hunt with.... probably be one of these. Some don't like the bolt peeps on these but I do.

[goon]

Where is this shop? Sounds like something I really just cannot do without.


Bill,
I just PM'ed you their information.
Now that I think about it, I might have gotten that confused a little. I look at a lot of old guns but I'm pretty sure that's what the price on that rifle was.
Personally, I love the old leverguns but I'd never want to own one.
I'd feel bad about using them and I'd also probably just be better served by Marlins in .357, .30-30, and .45-70 than by any of the older more semi-obsolete rounds.

[KirkD]

405 that is one gorgeous Winchester Model71.

Bill, if I were you, I wouldn't feet bad using old leverguns, unless it is in really high condition. None of mine are in really high condition, so I just use them, albeit with care. It really enhances the shooting session, or the hunting to use a vintage levergun.

[barnaclebill]

405 that is one gorgeous Winchester Model71.

Bill, if I were you, I wouldn't feet bad using old leverguns, unless it is in really high condition. None of mine are in really high condition, so I just use them, albeit with care. It really enhances the shooting session, or the hunting to use a vintage levergun.

I finally decided that I am never going to sell any of my guns and therefore I am going to start shooting all of them no matter the condition. Well ??? Maybe I will hold off on my old [like new] Marlin 45 govt. and the 45-100 Sharps that was used by the Factory in the competitions for the government contracts during the Civil War. Hey--Sharps are lever actions--just not repeaters. Does that count? Now onto my search for the Winchester 71:Fire:

[KirkD]

That sounds like a very desireable Sharps!

[ball_ernie]

Hey there

Appreciated your article on the old Lever guns that you own, I guess you posted that quite awhile though. Still content with what you have or have you bought other guns since?

Anyway, I'm a big fan of the Lever guns as well, particularly the old ones. Sometimes I think I was born a century too late as it would have been great to see all these come fresh off the line back in their day. I have a 30-30 which I've owned for years. I like the caliber and plan on keeping it, however I would like to get another one in a different caliber. I'm toying with the idea of companion guns to my single action 45 and 357, however haven't shot those caliber's in the long guns before. I recently came across a 38-55, which I know that ammo is harder to find and more expensive, but am drawn to the older cartridge charisma. My questions to you is how much of a recoil difference have you noticed between that of the 30-30 and 38-55? If you have shot Lever guns or know someone who has in 357 Mag or 45 Colt, what differences can you tell me about the recoil and power in those than from the 38-55? Sorry for the long message, but I'm trying to make an informed choice of which caliber to choose and it sounds like you know more about this than I do, so your experience is valued.

I suppose I could buy all calibers, but at this point in my life ( I'm 32) I really wouldn't use all of them and some would just end up being left out and unloved. Any info. you can give me would be great, thanks for your time.

Evan

[williamwaco]

I love the old levers too but enough has been said about that.

You, sir, are a true artist. Those photos are cover photo quality.

[725]

Wow. What an enjoyable report. Thank you.

[Rafe Covington]

How can you talk about old Winchester calibers and not mention the 1876 rifle and calibers. At least you mention the 1873 in 44-40 [prefer the 38-40 myself]. I guess to each his own JMHO

Rafe

[Four Fingers of Death]

Those Winchesters are hard to go past, I have an 1873 in 44WCF, manafactured in 1881, 92s in; 25/20 manafactured in 1908, 32/20 manafactured in 1927, 44/40 manafactured in 1910 and a 94 manafactured in 1960. All are shootable and in good condition, all with excellent barrels apart from the 92 in 44/40, which has a fair barrel. The 25/20 has been rebarrelled and is the only not in original condition.

The 32/20 is the only one I have a picture of. I will have to fix that.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Leverguns/a36b3fa9-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Leverguns/a36b3fa9.jpg

[Artful]

I like your selection :-D

However I think you need just one more perhaps [smilie=1:

How about a nice old Winchester 1886 in 50-110 or 50-100 :drinks:

Kirk D is doing pretty good and nice memories to share with us all ...

His selection is missing 22LR - everyone should have a lever action 22LR :bigsmyl2:

My mixed selection of Lever action(s) over the years that I have used and even owned some...[smilie=w:

Marlin 39 in 22LR
Winchester 25-20
Winchester 25-35
Marlin 32-20
Marlin in 30-30
Winchester in 308WCF
Rossi 92 in 357 mag
Savage 99 in 358WCF
Browning BLR in 358WCF
Winchester in 375 Big Bore
John Wayne Winchester commemorative 38-55 (it was plated even:shock:)
Winchester in 405WCF
Marlin in 44 Mag
Marlin in 45-70
Winchester in 50-110

Let someone shoot your lever gun and create a unique memory

[KirkD]

How can you talk about old Winchester calibers and not mention the 1876 rifle and calibers. At least you mention the 1873 in 44-40 [prefer the 38-40 myself].
By gum, how could I have made such an oversight. Here is a photo of my original 1876 45-60, shipped September 21st, 1886 ....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/76-on-Fence.jpg

This old '76 is a good shooter, too. Check out this range report http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4176

Here's my only '73 at the moment, a sweet little 38 WCF (38-40) shipped December 12th, 1891 ....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/1873-38WCF.jpg

Here's another fine old levergun I just acquired, an original Winchester Model 1895 38-72 with a tapered octagon barrel, shipped the 3rd of June, 1905 .....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/full-other-side.jpg

and here is a range report for the 38-72 http://www.winchestercollector.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4291

A '76 that I would love to have were it not for the lack of $$ is the NWMP SRC.

[Rafe Covington]

You have an awesome collection, congrats on some beautiful rifles.:awesome:

Rafe

[TXGunNut]

Awesome rifles, then and now, KirkD. Nice narrative as well as beautiful pics. If those rifles could talk I'd clear my schedule for a few weeks. Thanks for sharing them with us.
ball_ernie, thanks for reviving this old thread. Good eye!

[StrawHat]

Lever rifles are an interesting niche. I have one, an Winchester Model 1895 (built in 1900). In 2001, I had it rebuilt to handle the 405 WCF and I find it suitable to handle all North American game and then some. If I ever find I want/need a small bore rifle, I really like the Winchester Model 1873 but will probably go for an 1892 in 32 WCF.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Nice rifles KirkD, and good reports. I have always fancied an 1895 in 303Brit and / or one in 7.62x54 Russian. You will have to use those to fill the freezer, it is what they were designed to do.

[zac0419]

Thanks for the read and I owe thanks to Evan for digging up this old thread. Evan, I'm still real new at all of this but I have shot a 30-30 and shot some 38-55. The cowboy type 38-55 weren't all that different from modern 30-30 loads in recoil. But I have shot some of the hottest 38-55 stuff in my 375 Win that wake you up a bit. Even the 375 isn't all that bad and I'm not one that looks for punishment.

Thanks again KirkD really enjoyed the pics and story, you have a good eye for photography.

[stubshaft]

I didn't see any mention of the 1895 in 30/40 Krag. Therefore let me add this as it is one of my personal favorites. I have an original 1895 made in 1898 and out of all the lever actions that I own it is the epitome of metal fitting.

[Ed in North Texas]

I have to admit that I don't own a modern rifle. My newest one is the 30-30 made in 1954. My oldest one is a Trapdoor made in 1891. I don't miss the modern rifles at all.

Gee, and here I thought that my '39 Model 99 (.250) was a "modern" rifle. Heck, I figured that anything not at least 100 years old is "modern". My "old" firearms are all made prior to the turn of the century (20th that is). Sadly, lever guns aren't among my "old" rifles. But most are pre-modern by a standard of being in the 50s or older (exceptions being the 2 94 Marlins [.44 and .357] and the 95 Marlin .45-70).

Nice collection of rifles, great photography too.

[shdwlkr]

Kirk
I have a copy of most you list, but my 38-55 is a 375 winchester that was in so bad shape that it had to get a new octagon barrel 26 inch, full mag tube, new wood and new finish.
I have a model 92 action that as I get funds is being built into a 256 win mag as I have a 32wcf and didn't want the same looking brass in two calibers.
My 94's span almost a hundred years of manufacture from the early 1900's to the late 1980's now I could not even afford any of them.
Want another 45-70 in the worst way but that will have to wait until funds are easier to get and time to look gets to be more available

[ColColt]

I don't think I'd be shooting any of those old timers. They're for lookin', not for shootin' to me. I had never heard of a 38-55 until I picked up a copy of "Guns of the Gunfighters" and read that was Bob Daltons's rifle of choice. I'd still like to have one but shooting a rifle requires a 60 mile round trip for me.

[PatMarlin]

Oh contraire. Those rifles are all about shootin' IMO.

[TXGunNut]

Agreed, Pat. These rifles are all about shooting. I don't have anything in my humble collection that was bought for looks or collector value, I won't buy a rifle I can't shoot. Dunno if Kirk shoots all those purties but suspect he has, pretty sure he still does on a regular basis. IMHO shooting old rifles with the loads they were designed for is like reaching back through time, simply looking at them isn't the same.

[KirkD]

I won't buy a rifle I can't shoot. Dunno if Kirk shoots all those purties but suspect he has, pretty sure he still does on a regular basis. IMHO shooting old rifles with the loads they were designed for is like reaching back through time, simply looking at them isn't the same.

You are absolutely right! I shoot all my old classics. It is one thing to admire these old timers, it's a whole nother level to shoot and hunt with them. I try to get to the range once per week and each year I hunt deer with one of them. This fall, I'm planning to hunt Whitetail Deer with my 38-72. Last week I cast up over 300 bullets using an original Winchester mould. I developed a load using IMR SR4759 that fires the original cast bullet at the original black powder velocity of 1,435 fps. I'm hoping to test it for accuracy tomorrow.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like em all (rifles that is). I have a wide range from very old lever guns, WW1, WW2 milsups to brand new death rays. I find it equally satisfying to put a few rabbits in the pot using an open sighted SMLE Hornet conversion, which was a part of our firearms history or my old 25/20 lever gun to vaporising them from a distance with a 22/250 or a Swift.

I wish I could have got by on one one type of gun, whether old or new, that would have saved me a lot of money. I didn't start to accumulate many guns until the Government started making it hard for us to own them. I figured that things were going to get a lot worse and I'd rather have the gun I desired and argue why they should take it off me than try and convince them that I should be able to buy it. As it turns out, in our state, as long as you fit the criteria, you can buy it. It doesn't matter that you have ten 308s or ten 45/70s, but in other states they query why you need to double up. Anyway, wandering off on a tangent here, sorry.

[grubbylabs]

I hate these threads, now there is a whole new category of guns I want:sad:. They all sound like so much fun.

[ColColt]

I'd be a "skird" of shooting old timers like that...sort of like the old Damascus barrels in my mind. Maybe they're stronger than I think. Most were from the black powder era-that I could see but not smokeless. Besides the barrel's probably shot out with little resemblance of lands and grooves anymore at those ages.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd be a "skird" of shooting old timers like that...sort of like the old Damascus barrels in my mind. Maybe they're stronger than I think. Most were from the black powder era-that I could see but not smokeless. Besides the barrel's probably shot out with little resemblance of lands and grooves anymore at those ages.

I'll shoot the oldtimers, but only after going over them with a magnifying glass and then only with the holy black and soft, well lubed boolits!

[Artful]

I have no problem shooting guns of modern steel in good condition, especially with cast boolits and a moderate load - heck I don't even load my newer guns up to max velocity in most cases.

I've out grown magnumitis.

[KirkD]

I shoot smokeless in all my old Winchesters, I shoot most of them a lot, and I've done it for years. Sherman Bell has done several articles comparing various smokeless powders with black powder. Medium to slower smokeless powders will give you a lower peak pressure than black powder for the same velocity. Faster powders will give you a higher, sharper peak pressure for the same velocity. Stick with smokeless powders that have a burn rate slower than Blue Dot, and with original weight bullets and original black powder velocities and you will be fine.

[KirkD]

Just for the record ... I will confess that for sheer enjoyment, nothing beats black powder!

[TXGunNut]

:bigsmyl2: Nothing makes me smile like big chunks of lead and clouds of blue smoke. Damn shame about my new Super Grade 70 turning into a safe queen.:wink:

:castmine:

[TXGunNut]

Saw a Deluxe Model 71 in .348 @ the Ft Worth Cabelas Gun Library. Honest 95-98% gun, marked sold and price tag read about $3600. A bit out of my comfort zone but the guy was nice enough to let me take a closer look and handle it a bit. Very nice!

[Cannoneer]

Loved your article and the photoes. I to have an affinity for the old Lever Action Rifes. I currently own all reproductions but have in my battery, a Marlin 39A .22LR/S/L, Marlin 1895 Cowboy .45-70,a Chapparell Arms copy of the 1876 Winchester in .45-60, Winchester/Uberti M1866 & 1873 in .44WCF, another Uberti '73 in .45 Colt. The last one was a custom job, I took the original .44/40 barrel off and had a douglas .45 barrel chambered for .45 Colt and mounted in the action in 1982. I've owned several others in .45 Colt and .44WCF over the years, but these are my favorites.

Once I get back from Iraq I plan on replacing the sights on the marlin and Win. 1876 with Smith Enterprises rear sights.:cbpour:

[PatMarlin]

There's nothing new manufactured today that interests me anymore.

Levers on this thread are truly exciting. A buddy of mine started buying old Winchesters back in 1978 or so. If I had only followed his lead.. :roll:

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like them all, I hunt the hills with my 270Win or 338WM and sneak along the creekbeds and the briars with my Trapdoor loaded with black and a Gould HP!

[G. Blessing]

By gum, how could I have made such an oversight. Here is a photo of my original 1876 45-60, shipped September 21st, 1886 ....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v497/3855Win/Desktop%20Photos/76-on-Fence.jpg




Niiiice! And, now my wallpaper... :bigsmyl2:

G.

[PatMarlin]

I like them all, I hunt the hills with my 270Win or 338WM and sneak along the creekbeds and the briars with my Trapdoor loaded with black and a Gould HP!

What I meant to say is I like to use them all as well, but have no wish to buy any new made firearms. I like the old stuff and if I'm blessed with some extra dollars some day for a new purchase, it will be an old classic.

[KirkD]

I like them all, I ... sneak along the creekbeds and the briars with my Trapdoor loaded with black and a Gould HP!
It is a cold, rainy day here but the thought of a black powder-loaded Trapdoor firing along a creekbed, with its smoke and flame, is a cheery thought that warms my day! :-D

[Swampman]

There's nothing new manufactured today that interests me anymore.

Me either...it's all junk IMO.

[shdwlkr]

Cannoneer
Thank you for serving your country and us old farts.
Safe return home

[largom]

There's nothing new manufactured today that interests me anymore.

Levers on this thread are truly exciting. A buddy of mine started buying old Winchesters back in 1978 or so. If I had only followed his lead.. :roll:


SAME HERE! If I wanted a new caliber I would build it myself on a 98 Mauser receiver.

Larry

[NickSS]

I liked your rifles and your selection of calibers. I even have rifles in a few of them including a 38-55 Winchester short rifle and an 1886 light rifle in 45-70. I would add one more round that I have been playing with for several years now. It is the 5650 Spencer. I lover the old spencer carbine I have and with a CF breach block it goes bang with a lot of authority. I used it last fall to shoot a couple of wild pigs and it did the job well.

[tacklebury]

I'm hopin to get some more mileage out of the ole 40-60 Marlin. Got some Win 40-65 dies and going to try shapin my own brass. Need a better press though. Took 3 hours to do one with my hand press, then I smushed it with a miscalibration during seating. 8(

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/marlin18814060marlinright.jpg

[smithywess]

I'm hopin to get some more mileage out of the ole 40-60 Marlin. Got some Win 40-65 dies and going to try shapin my own brass. Need a better press though. Took 3 hours to do one with my hand press, then I smushed it with a miscalibration during seating. 8(

http://www.myhostedpics.com/images/tacklebury/marlin18814060marlinright.jpg

tackleberry,

That's one sweet looking 1881. Thanks for posting it. Just reduce .45-70 brass in your .40-65 dies. One good trick is to resize the cases in two passes, the first being just a partial resize and it makes the second pass much easier.

[W.R.Buchanan]

That is a nice 1881. I have never seen one in person that was any better than a wall hanger. Your's looks real usable. Are you going to load Black powder?

I always want to refinish things like this, but this one I'd be inclined to leave just as it is. It's been well taken care of and it's got character!

Randy

[PatMarlin]

Just awesome Marlins. I want one of those 1881's so bad I can't sit still.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Nice rifle, good to see it afield.

[tacklebury]

That is a nice 1881. I have never seen one in person that was any better than a wall hanger. Your's looks real usable. Are you going to load Black powder?

I always want to refinish things like this, but this one I'd be inclined to leave just as it is. It's been well taken care of and it's got character!

Randy

Thanks. I'm intending to do some BPCR shooting just locally though for fun. It was my great-uncle's train gun. He used to ride on the train and shoot (depending on which train) deer, buffalo etc. Apparently they had an Ice refrigerated car they would bring the animals back to. Dunno was before my time. ;) I surely do love it though and once I get a better press, want to get it back in action. 8)

[Jon K]

Nothing like an "Old" gun....
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l101/Jon_K_2006/OldMarlins001.jpg

JON

[W.R.Buchanan]

Bill Weddle: If I leave right now I could be over by you by about this time tomarrow. Can I go with hunting with you?

Nice Muley! Nice gun !

Randy

[KirkD]

Jon K, nice rack of classic Marlin rifles!! I love those old timers.

Bill Weddle, glad to see that old Marlin still bringing home the venison.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I just noticed the rifle second from the top in that picture. The base on the tang sight is obviously designed not to chop up your thumb! Cool.

[Jon K]

Just awesome Marlins. I want one of those 1881's so bad I can't sit still.

Pat,

They're out there....all you gotta do is...spend some of that fortune, the new machinery is making for you.

Randy,

Wanna shoot one? Drive down to Pala for the Levergun match on the 3rd Sunday(except this month is 3 day Regionals 10/7,8,9), I'll bring gun/ammo/sight settings for you to shoot. 40-60, or 38-55.

Jon

[mroliver77]

Here my only old lever. It is a Marlin 1893 in 38-55. It's been used but is in good shape with a great bore. Close as I could find is 1895 birth date. I killed a hog with it a few years back. 1 shot, dead right there! Ranch dog boolit cast soft over a medium dose of 4895. It mushroomed almost too much!
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/mroliver77/Zues018.jpg
http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/mroliver77/DSC00174.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Pat,

They're out there....all you gotta do is...spend some of that fortune, the new machinery is making for you.

Jon

You mean spend some of that fortune money these machines are costing me! ..:roll:

Dreamed of settin' some money aside and picking one up at the Reno show.

Ha! That ain't gonna happen this year.. :mrgreen:

[PatMarlin]

I need to pay Randy to come up and help me for about a week ...:mrgreen:

[W.R.Buchanan]

Pat: that can be arrainged. I'll only need about a day to plumb you up. Once you get it running reliably. I can wring out your programs and teach you to write clean, quickly.

JonK how can I find out more about this match and where exactly is Pala? (shovel) Is there a website for this club/match?

Randy

[Jon K]

Randy,

Map & info are on the website:www.ncsapala.com

Jon

[pls1911]

Fine iron, fine photography... what's not to like??
Bad influence on me though, I've focused on 30-30s 1893 to 1955.
The photos on this thread have me lusting for a braoder spectrum of fine old iron.
Thanks to one and all! Your guns are beauties!!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Thanks JonK

Randy