45-70 need some advice

[JT78]

Ok so long story short I'm new to reloading and have had trouble finding some of the powders I have a Marlin 1895 GBL and in looking up loads for a 400 gr bullet and 4064 I found load data on the hodgdon website of 53.5-57 gr of 4064 so I loaded a 405 gr powder coated hard cast bullet with 54gr of 4064 by reading I have learned that these will kick like a mule which is ok I am just wanting to know if these are going to be safe to shoot? I am planning to load a lot lighter loads for this gun as I get the powders I'm after like 4198 and unique in reading my Lyman's manual they look like they will be a better choice. In the mean time hodgdon shows the load data to be within working pressures but it's with a jacketed bullet which is different than cast so that's why I'm asking.

[docone31]

I use 70 gns of pyrodex in mine. Great groups, low recoil, and I fire a 405 gn lee casting. I have fired a bunch now, no rusting after cleaning, no **** in the internals. All good to go.

[NSB]

Let me offer some advice. I've own/owned several 45-70 rifles and it's probably one of my favorite cartridges. Before pursuing your load with 4064 and thinking you'll change to a different powder later, just get something different right now before you start. In my mind it makes no sense to start using a powder simply because you have some on hand. It's a waste of components, time, and development. The 45-70 is the least fussy caliber I've ever loaded for. It shoots several powders really, really well with 400+ grain bullets. Save the 4064 for something else and get some 2400, Unique, 4198, Rel7, 5477, or 4579 (if you can find some of that). All of those powders shoot very well in that caliber. Also, you can load up or down with all of them to suit your needs. Just speaking for myself, I load everything to around 1350-1550fps with those 400 grain bullets. I can shoot them for extended range sessions and they pass through a deer like a hot knife through butter. I have yet to recover a single bullet. I can get an honest 1moa with them on a couple of guns on a good day.

[JT78]

Appreciate the advice I've been reloading for my .308 for a while and figured if I couldn't use the 4064 for the 45-70 I could always use it on the .308. So which powder is going to be best? Chances are I'm going to have to wait and order an 8# can and pay the hazmat fee.

[JT78]

In the mean time I reckon I need to pull the cartridges apart that I already loaded with the 4064? Or can I should I shoot them?

[koger]

My go to powder is IMR 3031, pm me for load data, shoots great, clean, and leaves big holes in big critters, bear, big whitetails, and elk, have all fallen to this load!

[KenH]

BTW, according to QL data that 57 grains of 4064 powder with a Lee 457-405-F cast bullet is going to creat around 40,000 psi with almost 1900 fps in a 19" barrel. That is going to kick like a mule! and be sure your rifle is rated for that type of pressure. That's Ruger pressures. the starting load of 53.5 grains is around 36,000 psi which is still going to kick like mule.

I'm with the other folks who say load into the range of 1300 fps and that's still a bit of wallop.... on both ends {g}.

per QL, 40 grains is going to be a much nicer load - around 1300 fps or so.

[JT78]

Please excuse the ignorance but what is QL?

[NSB]

Appreciate the advice I've been reloading for my .308 for a while and figured if I couldn't use the 4064 for the 45-70 I could always use it on the .308. So which powder is going to be best? Chances are I'm going to have to wait and order an 8# can and pay the hazmat fee.
You won't go wrong with either 2400 or Unique. Both shoot amazingly well in all my guns and they also work in just about any cast bullet load you'll ever use in either handgun or rifle. They are really good in just about anything. My preferred load is 2400 with 400g cast bullets. I use either 24.0 or 25.0 grains, and it's easy on the shooter, the gun, but not on the deer. Very accurate.

[Gray Fox]

That last load of 2400--24.25 grains is in my favorite range, also. I use a small tuft of pillow dacron fiber over the powder to keep it in a consistent place and the accuracy seems to support its use. I have the same rifle and shoot either the old Lyman 457193 410 grain or Lyman Gould 330 grain HP boolit using the same load of powder and dacron tuft. The latter boolit recoils less and shoots faster. I also have the Ranch Dog 300 grain flat nose gas check mold and it puts out an even lighter recoiling load that's plenty of punch for deer or hogs at 100-150 yards using a 2-7 X scout scope on that rifle. It's a very forgiving round to load. GF

[725]

Please get a good load manual and follow it. Lots out there with lots of data. The .45-70 is a good one and you can load it from wild to mild. 405 is a lot of bullet / boolit. As you are, as you say, new to the reloading game, go forth with safety in mind. Follow the manual. I use the .45-70 to hunt with and have no real "target" use for it. For me (deer, bear & boar), are well served with a trap door level load and I don't have a need for the real hot rods available. Best of luck.

[Maven]

This(!!!): "Please get a good load manual and follow it. Lots out there with lots of data." ...725

[500Linebaughbuck]

i'm not a 45-70 guy. i've used it, quite successfully, on deer. i have used 330gr gould and 405gr fn and i think, 350gr ranch dog. i have used it above trapdoor loads. my handi tells me so!!!:bigsmyl2: you see, i am a coward on recoil, my shoulder tells me also. [smilie=l: i would go with 2400 for whatever the boolit weight is.

[Potsy]

I'm a 3031 fan. Even though I've only tried a few powders in a .45-70, I have found it's a pretty tough caliber to make "not shoot". 3031 seems to work across the whole spectrum of .45-70 data (from Trapdoors to Ruger #1's) and has always seemed pretty predictable in terms of pressure and speed. No filler (Unique, 2400), no fretting compression (Trail Boss), just load it and go.

Not knocking the others, they have their place and I've used them, I'd even allow that 3031 is nearly impossible to run through a powder measure, so be ready to weigh every charge.

[redhawk0]

I use IMR3031 and H4198 in my 45/70. Both powders shoot well from my Henry. As stated above...Get a good load manual...I actually like the One Book/One Caliber manual by Loadbooks USA. They cover a lot of powder/bullet combinations...including Trapdoor loads, lever action, strong action loads.

Once you have the data...then ask any questions you might have.

redhawk

[Grmps]

You can find downloadable manuals and data here

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?337910-CB-load-data-online-sources

[Duckiller]

Trail Boss is a powder that gives a reasonable recoil and enough velocity to kill Bambi. Minimum loads are fun. Remember the 45/70 killed a lot of buffaloes loaded to rolling block levels. I believe that the US Army reduced to 70 gr load to about 50=/- gr for use in carbines. No one likes to get beat up by recoil.

[pmer]

Ok so long story short I'm new to reloading and have had trouble finding some of the powders I have a Marlin 1895 GBL and in looking up loads for a 400 gr bullet and 4064 I found load data on the hodgdon website of 53.5-57 gr of 4064 so I loaded a 405 gr powder coated hard cast bullet with 54gr of 4064 by reading I have learned that these will kick like a mule which is ok I am just wanting to know if these are going to be safe to shoot? I am planning to load a lot lighter loads for this gun as I get the powders I'm after like 4198 and unique in reading my Lyman's manual they look like they will be a better choice. In the mean time hodgdon shows the load data to be within working pressures but it's with a jacketed bullet which is different than cast so that's why I'm asking.

I am shooting about 52 grains of 3031 in my Marlin with a 405 grain boolit and it works great. I bet the 4064 should work pretty good too. Just match your rifle to the rifle on the website because they have loads for trap door, lever action and Ruger number 1. And you should be fine

[KenH]

Please excuse the ignorance but what is QL?

Sorry it took me so long to respond. QL is a program called "QuickLoad" and is pretty neat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickLOAD

http://www.neconos.com/details3.htm

You can download a demo copy above. It's fun to play with, and like any other source, should ALWAYS be used with common sense

[Tenbender]

Try ACC 2015.

[sharpsguy]

52 grains of 3031 and a 405 grain bullet will kick. A LOT. Make that a whole lot.
A much better load is 38.5 grains of 3031 and the same bullet for 1350 fps. Shoots all the way through deer, hogs, elk, or even buffalo if you choose. You'll thank me later.

[longbow]

Yes, that load will get your attention! Not max but it'll get your attention.

When I started with my first .45-70 it was a converted Siamese Mauser and I was an idiot that wanted a big boom. I am also know as being frugal (cheap!) so I looked for the smallest powder charge that would provide the most velocity. My old Hornady book showed a load using IMR4227 under a 500 gr. "J" bullet that was pretty impressive. I used that load under the Lyman 457125 500 gr. RN. To say the recoil got my attention would be an understatement!! That fast powder resulted in more than somewhat uncomfortable sharp recoil!

I rethought my position and decided to try the slowest powder listed which was IMR4320. What a difference in recoil for same or even better velocity! Much more of a push and not unpleasant at all. Subsequently I loaded down a bit after being beat sensless! I picked up a Marlin 1895 and kept loads at or below max in that... mostly below max.

My favourite boolit became the Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose. It shot well in both guns and less recoil than 405 or 500 gr.

Longbow

Yes, listen to the advice. There is little need to load really hot even in a Marlin or Ruger unless you are wanted to stop a charging Alaskan brown bear.

[Texas by God]

I remember loading 405 gr Lymans to +/- 2000 fps in my P14 .450 Marlin. I also remember being glad when they were all shot up. I switched to 340gr Lees at 1400 and life was fun again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Bubba w/a 45/70]

Add one more voice to utilizing trapdoor loads for most shooting with the Marlin 1895, and still being able to get most things "done".

The main difference with my reply is that I use a 350gr boolit or 300gr JHP....neither have failed me whenever called upon.

[pmer]

Yes, that load will get your attention! Not max but it'll get your attention.

When I started with my first .45-70 it was a converted Siamese Mauser and I was an idiot that wanted a big boom. I am also know as being frugal (cheap!) so I looked for the smallest powder charge that would provide the most velocity. My old Hornady book showed a load using IMR4227 under a 500 gr. "J" bullet that was pretty impressive. I used that load under the Lyman 457125 500 gr. RN. To say the recoil got my attention would be an understatement!! That fast powder resulted in more than somewhat uncomfortable sharp recoil!

I rethought my position and decided to try the slowest powder listed which was IMR4320. What a difference in recoil for same or even better velocity! Much more of a push and not unpleasant at all. Subsequently I loaded down a bit after being beat sensless! I picked up a Marlin 1895 and kept loads at or below max in that... mostly below max.

My favourite boolit became the Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose. It shot well in both guns and less recoil than 405 or 500 gr.

Longbow

Yes, listen to the advice. There is little need to load really hot even in a Marlin or Ruger unless you are wanted to stop a charging Alaskan brown bear.

Your story about 4227 sort of matches mine with 2400. From the first shot of 3031 I could tell the recoil was different too. Those pistol powders in a 45-70 produce a faster recoil pulse that you can feel on the shoulder. The OP sounds new to reloading and maybe doesn't have a lot choices on hand for powder. I bet if he searched Castboolits he could find people using 4895, 4064 and 3031 and these all have a similar burn rate.

And it's just easier for a new guy to work with a powder that mostly fills the case. You can't double charge a 45-70 with medium speed rifle powder it won't hold that much.

And besides it's a 45-70...don't 45 Colt your 45-70...:razz: .458 Lott factory 500 grain...now that's recoil, don't hold that like a AR15, it might give you a bloody nose.

[longbow]

Hahahahaha! "Those pistol powders in a 45-70 produce a faster recoil pulse that you can feel on the shoulder." My shoulder felt like it got ripped off! The butt of the gun magically appeared about 8" rearward of where it started much faster than most of my shoulder did! Man that was wicked recoil. A sharp recoil pulse indeed! But it was cheap on powder...:razz:

The change to 4320 cost me a lot more to shoot but it was sooooo much more pleasurable. That and adding a Pachmyr triple magnum recoil pad! And using a little less powder after the thrill of big bore recoil wore off. Those initial hot loaded sharp recoiling (200 rounds worth!) were shot with just the plastic butt plate and no padding. OUCH! It still hurts 40 years later.

So, for the OP... choose your load and powder accordingly! If you like recoil you can get there from here! If not well then there's some good advice in this thread.

.45-70 is a great caliber and I miss mine. I am thinking I have been without one for too long now.

Longbow

[FergusonTO35]

I am planning to try Unique with the Lee 459-405-HB in my Marlin, looking for standard trapdoor level performance. Any suggestions here?

[pmer]

Ouch! The first couple shots with the Lott was a learning experience for me. Luckily not as bad your mauser. In recoil my thumb on the trigger hand was coming back and hitting my nose. So it was bang..my nose hurt, I thought that's weird..Bang my nose hurt again ouch. Not mention the jolt on the shoulder. Then I started holding it more perpendicular to my shoulders and worked on stance. So that rifle is gone and I went back to the "comfort" of the 45-70. It was regulated for speed and reduced loads where way off of point of aim. Put a scope on it but that just looked wrong. 45-70 was much better suited for what I wanted to do.

[Drm50]

I have been using Unique for cast in original single shots and use cast 322g Gould Express HP. I have used 2400, but settled on Unique years ago. In my 1895 Marlin and #1 &#3 Ruger, which
are used for Deer hunting I'm shooting 300g JHP Hornady/ IMR-3031. I have used IMR-4198 which
is also a good powder for 45/70. I don't use a lot of IMR-4064, used it in 220 Swift when I had one
not the best for straight wall cartridges. I would get some 3031 or 4198, you can't go wrong with
either, and both are useful for a wide range of cartridges. IMR-4198 is particularly useful for use
with reduced loads in a lot of calibres.

[evoevil]

Yes, I use 4064 for heavy hunting loads. Also use 3031, not as much pressure. Going to try Trailboss

[JT78]

I finally found some unique had to drive 45 min down the road for it. Also seen the load data for it in Lymans 48 and found a post on here from Lymans 47. Looks like 13.5gr start and 16.5 max for a 405 gr bullet should work for my 1895.

[NSB]

I've had really good luck with Unique and cast bullets. I think you'll like the results.

[1Hawkeye]

Try 10 grs of unique with your 405 gr or you can try 34 to 38 grs of IMR 3031. I tried 4064 and wasn't happy with the results there was a lot of unburned powder left in the bore and the groups were poor. If you could find some SR 4759 would be a great powder to use. Get yourself a copy of the lyman cast bullet loading manual and have fun experimenting. You don't need to go any heavier than the trapdoor loading data to get good accuracy. The original velocity for a lead 405 gr slug is 1286 fps.

[Swamp Fox]

I guess I’m the odd one but I didn’t have any luck with 3031 in my marlin. For harder loads I have had the best luck with varget under my 405 grain cast bullets. I don’t load them super hard, just the high side of a trapdoor load, which should be plenty for killing deer and hogs.. I hope to start hunting with it as soon as I get it dialed in. . I generally use 10-12 grains of unique for low powered plinking loads.

[NSB]

I guess I’m the odd one but I didn’t have any luck with 3031 in my marlin. For harder loads I have had the best luck with varget under my 405 grain cast bullets. I don’t load them super hard, just the high side of a trapdoor load, which should be plenty for killing deer and hogs.. I hope to start hunting with it as soon as I get it dialed in. . I generally use 10-12 grains of unique for low powered plinking loads.

I've got a ton of powder on the bench and 3031 is one of them. I too have had less than stellar results with this powder with any bullet/boolit and gave up on it. It's the only powder in fifty years of reloading that stuck a bullet in the bore with a big wad of melted brown goo (the powder) behind it. That wasn't a measuring problem either, I dip each load and trickle up with this caliber. Even the other ones that fired produced mediocre results. Could I use it? Yes, but I found a lot of other powders that did much better.

[Ramjet-SS]

I really like Unique but I am loading a 460 grain WFN GC shooting from a TC Encore 45-70 the load is really accurate and fun to shoot hits hard. I am huge Unique fan for a wide variety of cartridges using both jacketed and cast bullets. I have yet to find a load using Unique in any of guns that is not consistent and accurate. Now these are light to medium level loads if the desire is too get towards top ends then it's a matter of what your gun likes.

[shortlegs]

I made the mistake of loading a 405 gr boolit at 1800 fps for my marlin. Took me several trips to the range to shoot them. Most people that I let try it only shot one time and said no more. Recoil was extremely heavy!

[shortlegs]

13 gr unique with 405 gr boolit is about 1100 fps and very mild recoil. Not much noise. Very accurate and packs a punch.

[reivertom]

3031 is my go to powder for 45-70. I've always used it and never been disappointed. It is a proven powder for this caliber among others. If you load 4061, it's no problem if you go by the book loads, but I would not do max loads until you try a few. Remember the 45-70 can kill at both ends if you want it to.

[Drm50]

I have used IMR-3031 since early 60s in several different cartridges. I have never had a epic failure with the powder turning into a greasy ball. I use IMR- 3031, 4198, 4895, 4064, 4350 & 4227 and have never had any powder trouble. I have seen powder do the grease ball if it has
been stored in container that wasn't sealed were it could draw damp. Also in handloads that have
been stored improperly.

[jcourson]

Jacketed and cast powder loads are not interchangeable.

Your Academy Sports carries some Hogdon powders. Have you just asked them if they can get 4198 for you?

If not, surely you drive over to Raleigh from time to time just to get out. Hit up the Bass Pro or Cabela's.

[44Blam]

4064 is pretty slow burning. I like to use a chart to get an idea of what kinds of powders I should be using...
http://accurateshooter.net/pix/burnchart1601op.png

Anyway, I have shot 4198 and Varget through my 45-70 and I much prefer Varget. Your 4064 is closer to Varget than 4198... For cast loads with a 405 grn boolit, I do 40-45 grn (I like 42) and it is stout but accurate. For GC loads with a 405 grn boolit, I go up to about 50 gn - if you go to max (54-55 grn), each grain above 50 seems to add a magnitude of recoil. Also, I found that about 52-53 and above was a compressed load with my boolits.

The thing I found with 4198 is that it has a sharper recoil where as the slower powders have more of a push recoil...

[44Blam]

4064 is pretty slow burning. I like to use a chart to get an idea of what kinds of powders I should be using...
http://accurateshooter.net/pix/burnchart1601op.png

Anyway, I have shot 4198 and Varget through my 45-70 and I much prefer Varget. Your 4064 is closer to Varget than 4198... For cast loads with a 405 grn boolit, I do 40-45 grn (I like 42) and it is stout but accurate. For GC loads with a 405 grn boolit, I go up to about 50 gn - if you go to max (54-55 grn), each grain above 50 seems to add a magnitude of recoil. Also, I found that about 52-53 and above was a compressed load with my boolits.

The thing I found with 4198 is that it has a sharper recoil where as the slower powders have more of a push recoil...

Forgot to mention - I do like the Trailboss loads. It is about 15-16 grn of trail boss to fill the case and ZERO recoil.

[robg]

just got a 45-70 marlin using lee 405gr pb mold 18gr of 2400 shoots well with light recoil 20 and 22gr are equally accurate at 25 yards trying them at 50 /100 yards on sunday to decide which is going to be my everyday load.nice round to load for not having little boolits to drop on the floor!

[evoevil]

I used 4064 before because I had it ..... kicks good. I have switched to 3031 and just started loading Trailboss, Have not used the TrailBoss yet but the book show the pressure much lower

[Chill Wills]

That 38.5 grain load of IMR 3031 should be a good starting point to an accuracy load. It is only a top level load for the Springfield so if looking for best accuracy, you can try a few grains both up and down. I was just shooting 38grs last week in a Winchester and getting great accuracy!

Tho AA-5744 is pricier by the pound, it is no more expensive per shot than IMR-3031, and that makes AA-5744 well worth looking into. I have made great target loads for the 200 meter lever silhouette game with it.
Here is a picture of an old Lyman mold for the big flat point bullet.

216478

[44Blam]

Forgot to mention - I do like the Trailboss loads. It is about 15-16 grn of trail boss to fill the case and ZERO recoil.

Oh - I mis-posted! Rereferenced my load data and cross-ref'd with my books. Should be 12-13 grn. Last Trailboss loads I ran were 13 grn.

[Retumbo]

Nevermind...thought location was Burlington ON

[odette]

I have shot Re7, 4198, 3031 with good results with 400 gr JFP Speer. Best with my 1895S and C Sharps was with 4198. I am trying some AA5744 and 420 gr cast

[EDG]

My experience and recommendations are much like NSB's.
I have more 45-70s than you can count on 2 hands.

If you insist on loads of 1500 fps and up in a light rifle you are just trying to impress yourself wit a lot of recoil and you will probably not shoot it much.
The best velocities are from 1000 to about 1300 fps. My rifles are all single shots. Two of them weigh 12 lbs and 1 weighs 10.5 lbs witout scopes. The extra weight allows the use of 500 grain cast bullets at 1200 fps without excessive recoil. These heavy bullets are generally the most accurate in a wide variety of rifles.
In lighter rifles I use a lot of 300 grn cast bullets at 1100 to 1300 fps.

I tend to view the 45-70 like a very large .22lr plinker. I do not hunt much with It but I shoot It alot.
In order to develop reasonable operating combustion pressures you need a much faster powder than 4064 and 3031.
A large number of my loads are 13 grn of Unique with 300 grn bullets. I have burned up 2 lbs of Unique this way. Do not use Unique unless you have a 100% fool proof way to avoid double charges.

Other good powders are 2400, 4227, 5744 and 4759.
SR4759 works exceptionally well with heavier bullets and long barrels.
My best groups with tang sight BPCR. rifles run right at 1" at 100 meters.

[Good Cheer]

Haven't loaded 45-70 since Reagan was president but there's a passing thought I'd like to throw out here. Everybody knows that a .444 is overkill for bambis so why load a 45-70 with a heavier boolit and lots of feet per second?

Here's what I'm thinking...
Load the 45-70 with a little lighter boolit instead of slam dunkin' yourself. Like maybe something under 300 grains. A gas checked wide nose. Then work up the velocity to as fast and flat shooting as fits your hunting situation. If you more or less duplicate the performance of a .44 mag revolver then you have more than enough. Not saying that will make deer any deader, just that it could be a more practical approach to putting them in the freezer. For hogs, heavy boolit. Bambis, lighter boolit.

That's almost enough to make me wisht I'd bought one of those 45-70 Handi's while they was floating around.

[JT78]

So shot a couple of the 405 I had loaded with 54 gr of 4064 and they were a little stout haven't tried the unique yet but found some 4198 and plan to load some with it. Now just for fun I'd like to load some 500 gr bullets I see acme sells some that are coated most of the Lyman load info pushes the bullets way out past the 2.55 range to cycle does anybody have any load info that may work and be safe for these?

[JT78]

On a side note not worried too much about recoil just safety. Honestly I shoot 7mag with 195gr that kick harder than the 405 gr did in my Marlin although Iowa's standing with the Marlin vs I shoot the 7mag from a benched bipod

[bstone5]

Load 45-70 with Trail Boss and shoot out of a light Handi-Rifle without too much kick.
I use 14 grains of Trail Boss and can shoot 50 rounds at one time.

[EDG]

My top loads in the 45-70 produce way more recoil than a 7mm Mag.
I would advise you to use Trapdoor type loads in a Marlin if you want to enjoy the experience. Near .458 Win Mag loads are very unpleasant to shoot.


On a side note not worried too much about recoil just safety. Honestly I shoot 7mag with 195gr that kick harder than the 405 gr did in my Marlin although Iowa's standing with the




Marlin vs I shoot the 7mag from a benched bipod

[reivertom]

Never rely on reloading advice from the internet solely. Get yourself a good reloading manual, several is better, and go by what they say.

[Texas by God]

Unique + 45-70 = accurate fun.
It's all you need to play.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[JT78]

I have Lyman's manual 48,49, and 50 also Lee 2ND edition , Sierra 5th edition and the nosler that came with my rcbs equipment. I have also gone by some load data from hodgdon website. I load for several calibers of pistol and rifle. Found more info for 405 gr boolits but not so much for 500gr that is short enough to cycle a Marlin.

[44Blam]

I like Varget... The varget recoil seems to be more of a heavy push as opposed to a snapping kick like in faster powders like 4198...

The max loads of varget in the Lee book for 45-70 are compressed and they do hurt...

[Gunlaker]

That 38.5 grain load of IMR 3031 should be a good starting point to an accuracy load. It is only a top level load for the Springfield so if looking for best accuracy, you can try a few grains both up and down. I was just shooting 38grs last week in a Winchester and getting great accuracy!

Tho AA-5744 is pricier by the pound, it is no more expensive per shot than IMR-3031, and that makes AA-5744 well worth looking into. I have made great target loads for the 200 meter lever silhouette game with it.
Here is a picture of an old Lyman mold for the big flat point bullet.

216478

Chills, I used to shoot a lot of IMR-3031 from 38.5 to 40gr with a 405gr cast bullet but would get the occasional hangfire so I stopped with light charges of 3031. Have you ever had that happen? Now I use H-4198 and magnum primers and I like that combo more. Maybe I should have tried the magnum primers with the 3031?

Chris.