Antique Year Status

[PatMarlin]

What is the cut off for antique status?

I'm looking at a Winchester model 1895 thats made in 1898. Doesn't this rifle qualify as an antique?

[DLCTEX]

I think I qualify as an antique and I was manufactured long after that rifle. DALE

[Denver]

Pat,

The way I understand the rule is that for a gun that uses fixed ammo to be classified as "antique", it must be chambered for ammo that is no longer manufactured or that is not readily available commercially. It would fall under the "curio and relic" classification though, because it's more than 50 years old.

:castmine:

[Muddy Creek Sam]

I believe the Date is 1899 according to BATF.

Sam :-D

[PatMarlin]

Pat,

The way I understand the rule is that for a gun that uses fixed ammo to be classified as "antique", it must be chambered for ammo that is no longer manufactured or that is not readily available commercially. It would fall under the "curio and relic" classification though, because it's more than 50 years old.

:castmine:

I don't follow that line of reasoning as My trapdoor in 45-70 is definitely an antique, but fires a commercially available caliber obviously.

[PatMarlin]

I believe the Date is 1899 according to BATF.

Sam :-D

That's what I was hoping for.. :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

Think of all the calibers that are sold as ammo and fired today that was developed in the 1800's. Holy cow... 30-30, 44-40, 45-70, on and on.

[PatMarlin]

Don't mean to be pickin' on ya Denver, just trying to learn something new that will help me pull the trigger on a rifle purchase... :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

I think I qualify as an antique and I was manufactured long after that rifle. DALE

Dale I think you would qualify more as a curio... :mrgreen:

[Denver]

I don't follow that line of reasoning as My trapdoor in 45-70 is definitely an antique, but fires a commercially available caliber obviously.
I guess that's why there's a difference between "antiques" and " curios and relics".

I didn't write the rule.

[Muddy Creek Sam]

My Original Winchester 87 :bigsmyl2:12 Gauge DOM 1892 Legally came straight to me on a UPS truck to my house.

Sam :D

[PatMarlin]

I guess that's why there's a difference between "antiques" and " curios and relics".

I didn't write the rule.

I think I saw that rule on a Canadian site. Not a US federal law.

Here is a note from a US antique firearm dealer I just found:

Collectible Antique Longarms
(pre-1899)
Important information about ordering firearms from us!
If you see a firearm that you want, let us know and we will hold it for you. Firearms manufactured after 1898 can only be shipped to someone with a Federal Firearms License (FFL). If you have a Curio & Relic FFL, we can ship items liste by the BATFE as Curiios & Relics directly to you, as long as there are no state or local restrictions (California??). If you do not have a C&R FFL, then we can only ship guns made after 1898 to a FFL dealer in your area. The dealer will have you fill out a 4473 form ("yellow sheet") to conduct the required federal "Brady" instant background check, and any other paperwork required in your area before allowing you to take possession. FFL holders often charge a small fee for handling these transfers, as well as any state or federal fees for the background check. If you don't know of any FFL holders in your area, we may be able to help you find one willing to handle transfers.

So I belive Sam's 1899 rule would be correct.

[Denver]

Pat,

I looked up the definition of "antique firearm" which is what you inquired about, in the GCA of 1968. Paragraph 16 of Sec 921 is where you'll find it.

[alamogunr]

I think I saw that rule on a Canadian site. Not a US federal law.

Here is a note from a US antique firearm dealer I just found:

Collectible Antique Longarms
(pre-1899)
Important information about ordering firearms from us!
If you see a firearm that you want, let us know and we will hold it for you. Firearms manufactured after 1898 can only be shipped to someone with a Federal Firearms License (FFL). If you have a Curio & Relic FFL, we can ship items liste by the BATFE as Curiios & Relics directly to you, as long as there are no state or local restrictions (California??). If you do not have a C&R FFL, then we can only ship guns made after 1898 to a FFL dealer in your area. The dealer will have you fill out a 4473 form ("yellow sheet") to conduct the required federal "Brady" instant background check, and any other paperwork required in your area before allowing you to take possession. FFL holders often charge a small fee for handling these transfers, as well as any state or federal fees for the background check. If you don't know of any FFL holders in your area, we may be able to help you find one willing to handle transfers.

So I belive Sam's 1899 rule would be correct.

This is a short, plain language statement of the BATF regulation on C&R. The key statement is that "Firearms manufactured after 1898" can be shipped to a C&R licensee if they are listed by BATF as Curios & Relics. That list is supplied to C&R license holders and is quite lengthy. I have a hard time determining if something qualifies if I don't have it directly in front of me, since the description provided does not always include all pertinent information. Many people have stated that a firearm qualifies as C&R if it is over 50 years old. This is not automatic. It must be on the list. Dealers in older firearms usually can be relied on to correctly apply the regulations as was stated in the quote above.

This is how I have interpreted the regulations. If I am mistaken, I hope someone will correct me.
My experience is primarily with mil-surp so I haven't delved into the qualifications of other types of firearms to any great extent.

John

[oldhickory]

I believe the Date is 1899 according to BATF.

Sam :-D

Muddy Creek is absolutly right, modern begins with sr#s manufactured after 12:00 midnight on December 31, 1898. In the case of the Model 1895 Winchester the cut-off sr# is about, 19,871.

[jonk]

An antique is EITHER a gun that is made before Jan. 1, 1899, no matter WHAT caliber (I have gotten a Finn M39 in 7.62X54R, a Turk 1893 in 8mm, a Swiss 1889 in 7.5X53.5, a Mauser 71/84 and a Mauser 71 in 11mm, and a Gew. 88 in 8mm delivered right to my door and 2 of those are still regularly available calibers) OR a gun chambered in a not commercially available caliber. The British 14 gauge bottleneck shotguns come to mind, on an Enfield action. If it meets either of these criteria it may be shipped right to your door.

Post Jan. 1 1899 is a curio and relic up until today's date 50 years ago. Then it becomes a modern firearm. There are a few exceptions that have been granted- CZ82s come to mind.

[PatMarlin]

Thanks fellas.

Well I comfirmed it this morning- it is an antique made in 1898 and can be shipped to my door for now.

But I also found out someone had just beat me to this rifle and put a hold on it.

A Wincherster 1895 in 30-40 krag in awesome condition. I've always wanted a krag and an 1895. Would have killed to birds... :roll:

[Mike Venturino]

A little known fact is that even full autos can be shipped to C&R License holders AFTER their form 4 has been approved by the ATF. And of course that is IF the full auto is on the ATF's C&R list and IF local and state regulations allow full autos.

For instance, an original Thompson submachine gun can be transferred to a C&R license but one of those made back in the 1980s cannot.

Just interesting trivia.
MLV

[PatMarlin]

Hi Mike,

Interesting note.

Hey what do you think the value of Winchester 1873's will do in the coming years?

I've go my eye on a special order one with a nice bore... :drinks:

[Mike Venturino]

Pat: In my experience I've never seen collectible, anitque firearms of famous names i.e. Colt, Winchester, Marlin, Sharps, etc. go down in price.

I can't predict what the economy will do and have never worried about it because having been raised in West Virginia and lived my entire adult life in Montana, my personal economy has always been in recession.

I buy what I like and let the chips fall where they may. That said, I may have lost a few bucks here and there but brother I've come out ahead on many, many more.

Get the Winchester and never look back is what I would say. And good luck.
MLV

[PatMarlin]

I think these guns keep us in a recession Mike.. :mrgreen:

And it doesn't help seeing you in those photo's holding a beautiful old rifle pointed downrange... :mrgreen:

Thanks for the help... :drinks:

[waksupi]

Pat, if you buy a firearm as investment, buy all the "condition" you can. The closer to original, the better. That's not saying some lesser arms will not gain in value, but the pristine items are the real money makers. I've seen guns gain in value by thousands of dollars, just being bought on one side of a gun show, and carreid across the room.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

if you buy a firearm as investment, buy all the "condition" you can.
+ one to that

This is my 1878 Alex Henry 577/450 ex mounted police carbine with near perfect metalwork and bore. Knocked back an offer of 70% over purchase price after just 6 months.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/AH1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/AH2.jpg

[PatMarlin]

Beautiful Rifle.. :drinks:

I'm sure you're right Ric,.

Few things- one being I don't have the money for a real pristene orginal. Interesting item is the 73's I've been watching on aution have closed with no buyers.

Nice rifles from the $2,000 - $7000 grand range. I think money is tightening up.

Of course the people with money to burn that can buy are not interested in a price in that range.

The guy that could maybe scrape that up is holding on to cash right now.