10.4x47R Italian Vetterli

[Spitfire]

Is there anyone out there who has an original 10.4x47R cartridge for the M1870/87 Vetterli Vitali? I would be interested in purchasing it or borrowing it to have a mold created for the original bullet design. If there is any interest, multiple molds could be made for anyone interested.

[redneck1]

Bernie at old west bullet molds makes a pretty close copy of the round nose heeled bullet .
I use it in my 69/71 and it shoots fantastic

[Outpost75]

Accurate also has a clone of the original bullet:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=43-310B-D.png

[texasnative46]

redneck1,

THANKS for the info/diagram. = I'm likely about to buy one of those (in the rim-fire caliber) that's been hanging & looking "unloved" in a Waco junk-shop for 2-3 decades.

I suspect that it would be FUN to hunt the "invasive" feral hogs & axis deer with out at the natural area west of SA.

Do any of you KNOW for sure what an effective for hogs but SAFE load of smokeless is for the 10.4x47MM is.
(I've heard a BUNCH of different possible loads & SOME sounded DANGEROUS to the rifle/me.)

yours, tex

[Outpost75]

...Do any of you KNOW for sure what an effective for hogs but SAFE load of smokeless is for the 10.4x47MM is. (I've heard a BUNCH of different possible loads & SOME sounded DANGEROUS to the rifle/me.)

yours, tex

My friend in Italy loads 13.5 grains of Cheddite Granulare SV Fine which he says is interchangible with Red Dot.

I think that "The Load" will probably work, although I would consider that maximum and reduce to 10 grains initially.

[texasnative46]

Outpost75,

THANK YOU. = I think that I'll try 10 grains & work up to something approaching "the load". - I would think that that big-bore/300 grain plus lead boolit would be "a penetrator deluxe" & should kill "the wee BBQ piggies" just fine out to the short range (like 10-50M) that you can actually SEE what you're shooting at.
(YEP, the brush IS that dense/thick.)

yours, tex

[redneck1]

With the old west 330 grain bullet I use 12.5 grains of 2400
It's not pushing any boundaries and isn't super fast but it would put a wallup on a hog out to 100 yards or so .

What I like best about the mold is it works very well with the Lee dies .
Mine fit the case necks after sizing just tight enough to load easily and not need any crimp to stay in place inside the tube and when ejecting a loaded round .

For hunting though , if you call and talk to him Bernie will modify you up a Lee collet die so you can crimp , and he does it pretty reasonable priced .

[texasnative46]

redneck1,

THANKS for the info. - 2400, I've got, so I don't even have to buy any.
(Now I have to get up to Waco to get the old rifle, modify the firing pin & load up some few rounds to try out on paper.)

One reason that I want one of the old Vetterli is that they are lawful in a European nation that is "tough on" post 1898 weapons for NON-citizens but that has LOTS of wild boar, red deer & wolves to hunt & it's CHEAP to stay/hunt there, too.
Antique firearms are NOT even considered to be "deadly weapons". = NO trophy fees either.

I have a friend from Muleshoe, TX, who took a Pope & Young eligible WT buck a couple of years ago with his bow & Tom's comment was, "I could have bought a pretty nice used car for what that head ended up costing me."
(Texas is anything BUT a cheap place to hunt a trophy deer, unless you own a ranch/farm.)

yours, tex

[John Boy]

Bullets ...
F.P. .430 320 Gr. BT 41 Swiss 10.4x47R Italian $25.00 5-A
http://gadcustomcartridges.com/#pistol

[texasnative46]

John Boy,

THANKS.

yours, tex

[justashooter]

redneck1,

One reason that I want one of the old Vetterli is that they are lawful in a European nation that is "tough on" post 1898 weapons for NON-citizens but that has LOTS of wild boar, red deer & wolves to hunt & it's CHEAP to stay/hunt there, too.
Antique firearms are NOT even considered to be "deadly weapons". = NO trophy fees either.
yours, tex

what country?

[texasnative46]

what country?


justashooter,

Check your mailbox, please.

yours, tex

[Mytmousemalibu]

I would like to get a mold to match the original military loading too. I wish I could find another bolt to spare modifying my original numbers match rimfire bolt.

[texasnative46]

Mytmousemalibu,

That makes 2 of us.

Should you find more than the one for you, PM me please.

yours, tex

[John Boy]

Slug the bore of your rifles for land and groove diameters because the M1870/87 Vetterli's had different diameters. Then let me know, I believe I can help you with bullets and molds that I have for the Vetterli's in 10.4x38R and 10.4x47R

[mazo kid]

Several years ago, there was a group guy on the Vetterli forum (swissrifles.com) for a Lee made mold. If memory serves me, this came with both PB and HB pin. Maybe check there to see if someone might cast some boolits for you.

[John Boy]

Maybe check there to see if someone might cast some boolits for you. Unless the rifle bore is slugged - asking for cast bullets would be an exercise

[Mytmousemalibu]

Ill have to slug my M78 and get back to ya. I really fancy the idea of making my own reproduction milspec ammo. Having the correct bullet would be fantastic. Im ready to warm up the casting pot!

I'm working on case forming 32ga shotshell brass. Its almost there, i just need to work the brass down a tiny bit more and make a die to swage the rim down a hair. Its Magtech brass which is a balloon-head type so its kind of frail and requires some careful work. I think its going to work just fine once I get the process finalized.

[redneck1]

A comparison .. a 140 year old or so Swiss round
And one with a bullet from my old west bullet molds


The 41 Swiss has caused me to question quite a few of the things most automatically take as a truth in using cast bullets .
One of those being obturation.
We hear an awful lot about how smokeless powders won't "bump up"
A bullet like black powder will .

Funny thing is .. every single bullet I've recovered the smaller dia heeled portion has been bumped up to full dia and rifled just the same as the rest of the bullet even with the rather modest 12.5 grain charge of 2400 I use .220547

[mazo kid]

Unless the rifle bore is slugged - asking for cast bullets would be an exercise
Yes, I agree, but that is why sizing dies were invented. Paper patch if mold is undersize, size down if oversized.

[dominicfortune00]

RCBS has the cherry to cut a mold for the Italian Vetterli, and will not make any molds with it because it doesn't have a part number.

A couple of years ago I tried to get RCBS to make me a mold and they would not.

[Humpy]

FWIW my 10.4X47 made at Torino in 1874 was .429 grooves measured at muzzle with a inside mic. I also fired a 240 gr. Sierra with a light load so it would stop mid bore and I eased it out the chamber end and it too had .429 groove dimension.