Seeking Information on 22TCM/9mm Combo

[Virginia John]

Does anyone on here have an Armscor 22TCM/9mm Combo that could give me a brief review of it. I have been looking at them for some time but I haven't heard what the users think of them. Any comments?

[Handloader109]

I've got two of them..... One is the double stack, the other is the target model, single stack. The double stack is set up as the 22tcm, and the single as 9mm. Good guns in my opinion. I did have the front sight come off of the double about 6 months after I had purchased. Contacted them, they provided shipping label for Fedex and got it back after about 3 weeks. Fixed and no issues since. I really like the single stack feel. I bought some aftermarket mags for both. Had to grind on the double stack ears, but they work fine. Single stack doesn't always work well, but that is the mag, not the gun. Stick with the OEM magazines for the Single stack for sure. The 22TCM is a HOOT to shoot. Zero recoil, well, about the same as a 22. Nowhere near the 9mm. And a large fireball. Accurate and it WILL go thru a nice hunk of steel (oops.....) Both of mine are 5" I wouldn't get less than the 4.25" barrels, they now offer a 3.5". I don't really carry either. Like my PPQ more.

I've reloaded for it. Hornady dies are a bit better than the Lee. I've found that the brass I've converted isn't as easy to use, wall is thicker than oem and I'll most probably buy more oem brass rather than convert. I've the NOE 37 grain 223 that I cast for this little thing, powder coat and they work well. The OEM bullets are available and load easier. And for that matter OEM cartridges aren't that expensive.

One other thing that I don't really like, but is I guess necessary, is that the double stack has pretty crappy rubber grips. And the grips are Super thin and odd shaped on the underside. I started to make a set to replace but gave up as they would almost be paper thin in some areas.

[Earlwb]

I have the pistol combo as well as the rifle too. I have the tactical version with the 4.25 inch barrel. I wanted the picatinny rail under the barrel. My example has been quite fun to shoot. It sounds like a .357 Magnum full house load when you set off a round. A nice loud blast and flame front goes out to the front. It reminds me of the 7.62x25 Tokarev in that respect. Recoil is very mild, about like shooting a 22LR. One can really unload the magazine fast like that and keep the shots on target. For reloading, my gun is very tolerant of minimum to maximum loads still working the slide OK. So it is nice to reload for in that respect. I have not had any problems with my pistol, it has performed really well. Although you have to buy the reloading cases and bullets off the internet, the supplies are readily available. Some stores sell the ammunition too. Cabelas is selling it in our area and they still sell the full size double stack magazine pistol too.


I think it would be quite suitable for self defense too. The 22 TCM is about the same as the FN 5.7x28 cartridge. The 5.7x28 is a proven man stopper and the .22 TCM would have about the same effectiveness too. The low recoil, minimal ricochet possibilities, and severe wound ability make it a fairly good self defense kind of round.

[Outer Rondacker]

I have one. Its fun. Very cheap to shoot. Everyone of my friends who have shot it now have one. Look at it this way. You are buying a 9mm in a 1911 platform that comes with an awesome extra round. Mine shoots fireballs just like the desert eagle 50ae. Loud as any rifle and packs no recoil in 22 tcm. Did I mention its in a 1911 format. Why have you not bought it yet?

Mine is my steel range plinker in 9mm. As for 22 tcm well that is my go to for blasting gallon jugs of water at 35 yards or so. Learned my lesson about shooting my steel with it.

[Virginia John]

Thanks fellas, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer. Now, tell me where to get one. Since I will be reloading for it, I'll need dies and brass.

[Silverboolit]

I have been using the LEE dies and have had no problems with them. I got the brass and bullets from Armscor website. Not too expensive for either. The gun shoots really well and is as accurate as it's shooter needs more practice. Have had no problems with it with either barrel, however, the 22 TCM is by far the most fun to shoot.

[Earlwb]

You can check with your local gun stores. Cabelas sells them too. If you have a local gun store with a internet website store, you can check their inventory to see if they have some to sell too.

Both Lee and Hornady sell reloading dies for the 22 TCM. MIDWAY and others sell the dies. Now for bullets and brass cases you can check out here http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=tcm0.
OR
https://advancedtactical.com/products/ammo/reloading/

[Virginia John]

Thanks again for the help in getting started in my new caliber.

[Gunslinger1911]

I had the double stack - didn't like the feel. (Locked up tighter than a bank vault though).
Sold it, got a single stack, locks up almost as well.
As said, an absolute HOOT to shoot !!!
10-11 g 296 - the fireball is spectacular.
Diamond K brass has new and once fired brass.
I cast a 42 g GC boolet.

[Virginia John]

OK, next question. Where do I find load data for the 22TCM. I have looked in my usual places and don't seem to find any. Thanks to you guys I have selected my model, found reloading supplies but now find myself needing load data.

[kencha]

The only "published" data I'm aware of is Accurate Powder's new TCM Powder. They have a PDF on their site. http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

Way back when RIA released their first pistol (was available as a custom pistol from Fred Craig prior to this), the recipe you would get by email from Mr Craig was 9.0 to 10.0 grains of H110/W296 when using their factory brass and bullets and Tula/Wolf SPP (no magnum primers). Many thought that was too conservative, CYA-level load.

Since then, people have branched out on their own. A quick web search will turn up all sorts of info. 22tcm.net and 1911forum.com probably have the most info.

But again, the only published info I know of is for a powder I've never seen locally (Accurate TCM), although it is available from many online sources.

ETA: I forgot that Handloader did an article on the TCM (No 298, Oct 2015), but they only used the rifle. They didn't test them in any pistol, so if that data is used for a pistol, it may or may not function, etc.

[Virginia John]

Thanks once again. You all have been an amaizing fount of knowledge and assistance.

[HATCH]

Factory Brass, bullets, magazine, lee dies -> http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?search=action&category=tcm0


Make Lot Weight Thrown Av Vel Energy Std Dev. Spread H Vel L Vel
FACTORY 2001 356 34 116 2076 1960
Unique 2.5 Measured 1023 99 27 82 1053 971
Unique 2.7 Measured 1067 108 51 196 1182 986
Unique 3.0 Measured 1157 128 45 164 1279 1115
H110 10.0 Measured 1905 403 35 108 1957 1849
H110 10.2 Measured 1875 392 48 160 1966 1806
H110 10.4 Measured 1910 408 19 52 1932 1880
H110 10.6 Measured 1947 426 21 65 1969 1904

Hope you can read it. The chart didn't copy like I had hoped.

My load is 10.5 grains based on the above data.
Please keep in mind that the above data is based on my pistol, at my altitude, and my weather conditions.
It is suggested that you work your loads up as I did and find out what works for you.

As you can tell the lowest SD was 10.4 but 10.6 wasn't too bad either so thats why I went with 10.5

H110/w296 is what I used with remington small pistol primers

[Handloader109]

Hatch is right there with what I use. I've gone as high as 11 gr of H110, about 10 to 10.2 with cast PC 37gr. No leading even going 1700+.

I bought first through buds, last at cabelas. Anyone using Williams as distributor should be able to obtain them. One thing to note is they come over in spurts I.e.shipping container full lots. And may be out of stock for a while....

[Virginia John]

Thanks again guys, you all have been extremely helpful and I look forward to the experience.

[Earlwb]

I can agree with Hatch too. In my testing using H110 or W296 (seems to be the same stuff) I wound up with 10.4 or 10.5 grains as being about the right powder charge in my pistol too. With my pistol the slide was borderline on feeding well with the 10 to 10.2 grain loads.10.4 grains and up worked fine in it.

[Outer Rondacker]

You guys have made me dig mine out again.

[Handloader109]

I haven't shot mine in a few months either...coming out next week

[Virginia John]

I am having a terrible time trying to find the Hornady dies. Any suggestions there? And if you guys don't like shooting yours, I am looking for a single stack 4.25" combo preferably with the VZ grips.

[Outer Rondacker]

I got the lee dies. Let me take a look.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/833621/hornady-custom-grade-new-dimension-2-die-set

Even here. http://www.ammosupplywarehouse.com/product/196/LEE-3-DIE-SET-22-TCM-Armscor-Rock-Island-Armory.html

While at ammo supply grab 1k projectiles.

[Virginia John]

I can't tell you how many times I searched Midway to no avail. Thanks for the help.

[Earlwb]

I am using the Lee dies and they work fine for me. But I am not trying to reform .223 brass though. I remember reading somewhere that the Hornady dies work better for reforming the .223 cases.

For the Hornady dies, you might want to hurry as MidSouth says they have them still https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/reloading/dies/22-tcm
Midway says they have them still too https://www.midwayusa.com/22-tcm/br?cid=23441
Someone on Amazon is selling them too https://www.amazon.com/Hornady-546215-DIESET-TCM-224/dp/B06XFX6PZS?th=1&psc=1
Hornady sells them as Custom dies that you can special order from them too.

[Outer Rondacker]

I swaged brass in the early days with the lee dies. If you do this you need to turn down the necks. I like the lee.

[Virginia John]

I think I have found a Commander size 2011 but I don't know what makes it a 2011. This one seems to be a couple of years old and has a full length dust cover with rail. I believe it to be a model 51994. Can anyone enlighten me on this one? Thanks.

[Outer Rondacker]

model 51994 is a 10mm.

[Virginia John]

Then I am using the wrong Model Number. It is a "M1911 A1 CAL 22TCM/9mm MS Tactical 2011 G10 (Combo)" according to the label on the box. What makes it a 2011?

[Outer Rondacker]

Mine is a 2011 as well. So from you model you are looking at a 1911 frame with tac rail and sights. A1 is the single stack ms= midsize. G10 is the grips. The 2011 is the 100 year addition of the 1911. Going out on a limb here but after some reading that is what I came up with.

The model you have listed is what I have. Oh and combo well you know two barrels and spring set up.

[Virginia John]

What would a fair price be for this, fair to both buyer & seller?

[Outer Rondacker]

New it is in the mid 600s to the low 700s. Used well only the seller and buyer can decide. Sorry I could not be more help.

[Handloader109]

2011 has a rail. The new guns are note expensive than a couple of years ago. I'd say anything under six would be pretty good price.

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[Virginia John]

Thanks, it was $555. shipped but unfortunately, the seller changed his mind so I am back to looking.

[Handloader109]

Oh well, keep looking. I don't see many available at distributors right now. May be a month or two...

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[Virginia John]

I found one on Gun Brokers, 4.25" single stack.

[Outer Rondacker]

Glad it worked out for you. You will love it.

[Virginia John]

First trip to the range yesterday, I beat the snow that we are now enjoying. Was very impressed with the 22TCM round, very powerful and extremely mild to shoot. My accuracy will improve with practice as the gun and I get used to each other. The 9mm was similar to my other 9mms but overall I am very impressed by this gun. I have made a deal with a guy on this forum to buy all his reloading supplies and equipment for the 22TCM. He also had the gun for sale after I bought mine, poor timing. I am looking forward to the reloading experience.

[Outer Rondacker]

Ya I saw the deal after and didnt want to say anything and make you feel bad. It is a killer deal.

[Virginia John]

My reloading supplies et al arrived yesterday. Can't wait to get started.

[Outer Rondacker]

Make sure you show us the results. I look forward to hearing it!

[Virginia John]

I finally made it to the range with my first reloads. I have been having a hard time finding reload data for the powders I have on hand. I found some data for Power Pistol and started at the low end 6.4 gr and went to 7.0 gr. Shot well but none of the loads would cycle the gun. The suggested load range for Power Pistol was from 6.4 to 7.9 gr, so now I will try the upper range and see how that works. The gun shoots very well with the factory load. I did notice that the thumb safety was extremely touchy. I don't know if anyone else has experienced this or not. I am wondering if the detent spring might be a little weak or perhaps I may just change it for a single thumb safety versus the ambi. But all things considered, it went very well for the second trip. The accuracy is very good and it is fun to shoot.

[Outer Rondacker]

Glad to hear you like it. Check that spring. Mine is strong.

[Virginia John]

I stretched the spring a bit and it seems better, not so sensitive.

[Handloader109]

My ambi is just about perfect, the one with single safety is way stiff. I haven't tried to adjust. Careful with other powders. H120/w296 is best, I'd get a pound of that rather than try and develop another.

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[Outer Rondacker]

Handloader109 I think you need to edit your last post. I think you ment H110 not H120.

[Virginia John]

I have some TCM on order. I was just looking for a pistol powder that would do in a pinch.

[Earlwb]

I have some TCM on order. I was just looking for a pistol powder that would do in a pinch.

I use H110 or W296 with the 22 TCM. The first load information we got for the 22 TCM used these propellants too. H110 and W296 are almost identical if not the same stuff. The cartridge has been out for a while now, so there are more choices to use.