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View Full Version : Alum. gas check break through.



JeffinNZ
09-01-2008, 11:45 PM
Team.

From day one I have had erractic results with my Freechex made from aluminium (aluminum to you guys :rolleyes:). I had been blaming the alloy etc.

I had been forming the checks with the anvil sitting in a slab of wood in my vice so when the check formed it dropped down a hole in the wood into the can below for collection. Quick and efficient but this method was producing checks that were not uniformly formed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/IMG_0039.jpg

Now I am forming per Charlie's instructions and forming the checks on a hard surface and HEY PRESTO, great results. Today I shot 10 rounds through the No4 Mk2 and at 100m/110y 7 are in 1 1/2 inches, 1 is a little right (I called that) and dang it if I didn't drop 2 a bit low that I can't explain. :-(:-( (Buckshot will say that is the Almight keepin' me humble) Checks were 2 ply alum 11 thou litho plate/4.2 thou soda can. Photo tonight.

Further, yesterday I shot Freechex in my .303 Pygmy using 19 thou alum and they shot GREAT. First round went a shade high; possible neck tension issue as that round was a shade loose in the neck. See photo following:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN0074.jpg

Soooooooooooooo, I take back anything I said about alum checks. They work great. It's very much a factor of using metal that COMPLETELY fills the void between gas check shank and groove and how well the check is created.

JeffinNZ
09-02-2008, 04:49 AM
Team.

Here is the .303 Brit group from today.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/020908.jpg

The 8 at the tip of the bullet I called/felt but the two low shots have be baffled. I would like to think as they are close together in the same area I pulled them also as all my shooting with this rifle is done front hand supported, elbows resting - not benchrested. This not withstanding the other 7 rouns are in less than 1.5 inches which is tres repectable for a Lee Enfield.

JeffinNZ
09-16-2008, 04:53 AM
Team.

I shot the No4 MkII .303 Brit today. Using both front and rear sandbags (I usually shoot front hand supported, elbows on bench). I put 10 rounds through the old girl using the 2 ply alum checks. The last two rounds contained bullets with small flaws in the noses - I saw these after I had seated the projectiles as I was in a hurry. :( I fired these two rounds last and one went into the group, the other did not and is the shot in the 'X' ring. The main group of 9 rounds is 1.5 inches at 100m/110y. Load produces 1640fps with the 205gr bullet over 20.6gr AR2205/H4227. Further, the 4 shots in the far left of the group were the first fired and I had my chest resting against the bench, a stanch I changed shortly thereafter as my breathing was not comfortable. I believe this change moved the POI right a shade. Hence the egg shaped group.

Either ways this conclusively shows the alum checks work on par with commercial checks.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/DSCN0119.jpg

Just Duke
09-16-2008, 04:56 AM
Great results Jeff. What grain weigh?

Alvin in AZ
09-16-2008, 05:12 AM
Hmmm...
Do you suppose the aluminum oxide coating on the gas
checks will smooth up a bore any? :)

Al2O3 is 9.0 on the mohs scale.

Alvin spelling aluminum wrong on purpose in AZ ;)
ps- did I get the right number of oxygens this time? :)

JeffinNZ
09-16-2008, 05:19 AM
No oxide. The material is coated.

Boerrancher
09-16-2008, 09:46 AM
Jeff,

I am going to take partial blame for your poor results in the past. You had posted a pic of your set up in the past for making them. I was going to post and tell you about it, got distracted, and forgot. CRS as we discussed per PM. LOL Anyhow that is some great shooting. I am glad the homegrown gas checks are coming into it for you. Your Package arrived, it is at the post office, the wife will pick it up today.

Best wishes and happy shooting from the Boer Ranch,

Joe

JeffinNZ
09-16-2008, 06:21 PM
That's mighty decent of you Joe. Taking responsibility for me being a dumb ass and all. [smilie=1::drinks:

Meatco1
09-16-2008, 06:25 PM
Jeff, I enjoy reading your updates. I'm still on the fence about making my own, or continue buying the damm things at outrageous prices!!

Thank you,

Richard

Alvin in AZ
09-18-2008, 10:39 PM
No oxide. The material is coated.

The aluminum was coated with what exactly? ;)
And was the aluminum cleaned in an inert atmosphere or a vacuum? ;)
That fancy of aluminum is prob'ly worth more than Cu gas checks, suppose?

Aluminum's got an oxide coating on it... even through oil, oxygen will find
its way to the aluminum. Just the way it is. Chromium, titanium and many
others are the same way.

Believe it? :)

Alvin in AZ

madsenshooter
10-21-2008, 10:09 PM
Alvin might be right, most litho plates now a days are anodized, which is to say:

Anodizing, or anodising, is an electrolytic passivation process used to increase the thickness of the natural oxide layer on the surface of metal parts. Anodizing increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance, and provides better adhesion for paint primers and glues than bare metal.

To further define that though we must figure out what passivation is:

In the context of corrosion, passivation is the spontaneous formation of a hard non-reactive surface film that inhibits further corrosion. This layer is usually an oxide or nitride that is a few atoms thick.

So, I'd say litho plates, free or not, are probably not the way to go, there's a plastic coating on the inside of the beverage cans though. Maybe someone should reslug their bores after 1000 rounds or so and let us know how much wear and tear it's taken! Might be ok for emergency use.

docone31
10-21-2008, 10:24 PM
One more way we remain independant!
Great shootin with that #4. I should be so lucky.
I had to go paper, I got 20ft of berm groups with gas checks.
Lookin good.

randy merta
10-22-2008, 12:36 AM
Jeff could you post a pic of your rifle. I am having a fancy of a fit wanting an old military rifle again. And what type of gas check making device do you have? Nice shooting!
Randy

hunter64
10-22-2008, 01:42 PM
Jeff in NZ: I have some old #3's and #4 rifles that I take to the range once in a while to streach there legs. What mold are you using for the bullets?

docone31
10-22-2008, 04:08 PM
Hunter, I use the C312/185R by Lee Precision. It works for me. I use it both in casting, and paper patching.
I wish I had groups like that with casting.

JeffinNZ
10-22-2008, 05:39 PM
Jeff in NZ: I have some old #3's and #4 rifles that I take to the range once in a while to streach there legs. What mold are you using for the bullets?

It's a CBE 313 215. 205gr in WW. Jim's .303 bullets will not be beaten.

tcrocker
10-22-2008, 07:47 PM
Where do you get the stuff to make your own gas checks?:confused:

Alchemist
10-22-2008, 10:36 PM
Where do you get the stuff to make your own gas checks?:confused:

Check the group buy forum...Patmarlin is doing check makers over there. He also has a copper sheet group buy.

Cheers

S.B.
03-13-2009, 10:35 AM
It appears your not using any lube in grease grooves, how's leading in the bore? Bullet in bottom picture doesn't appear to have check on it?
Steve

PatMarlin
03-13-2009, 10:53 AM
Outstanding ...! Great shooting Jeff ...:drinks:

Aluminum obviously works and shoots well, but personally I can't bring myself to use anything but copper down my bores. Just the thought of taking a chance with Al bothers me.,

We really don't know what that coating is, and is it the same from one manufacturer to the next? Does is help or harm?

A firearm that I use occasionally or don't care about would be different I guess, but I'm attached to all of them ..:mrgreen:

swheeler
03-13-2009, 11:18 AM
It's very much a factor of using metal that COMPLETELY fills the void between gas check shank and groove and how well the check is created. BINGO! Scot

JKH
03-13-2009, 12:32 PM
tcrocker,

Check out e-bay user codarnall, he makes the FREECHEX and FREECHEX II hand operated check makers, JeffinNZ helped him test these before marketing. I have one in .30 cal and another in 8mm, they make excellant checks, for mine I am using .008" aluminum lithograph offset press plates, I bought 14 sheets for $5 from our local daily paper and calculated that I can get roughly around 40,000 check from the lot.

The FREECHEX II tools work acceptably fast, I can punch out 100 checks in about 15 to 20 minutes, if I'm bored a typical session can make 3 or 4 hundred checks in less than an hour so its easy to have enough on hand.

Patmarlins tool looks very nice and has had great reviews if you want to go the press mounted route, my press is a 50's vintage C frame that sits at a backwards angle so isnt conducive to using his tool or most auto priming tools for that matter, another reason I prefer the FREECHEX II tool is that I can use it anywhere and have even used it sitting in my rocker with a board across my legs and punched out checks watching the bube tube.

HTH

Jeff

badgeredd
03-13-2009, 01:03 PM
Jeff,

I have a couple of the freechecks tools. One I had Charlie make to my dimensions for a modified 358156 mold and the other for 375 checks. My problem is I can't figure out how exactly to laminate 2 thicknesses together to make the proper thickness freecheck. :???: I always seem to tear one of the pieces. :( Can you explain your process so a idjit can fathom the wonders of a laminated freecheck?

I sure would appreciate some help with it.

BTW, I found that some cat food cans are made of a .008 thick aluminium (your spelling mate) that is coated with a plastic like film. They work perfectly on a modified 375 boolit mold that I changed to get a lighter weight boolit for my 375 Super Magnum revolver. :twisted: While making the changes to the mold, I also made the check shank larger for the .008 aluminum.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can give me.

Edd

JKH
03-13-2009, 01:35 PM
American Jeff here ;^ )

badgeredd,

Which tool do you have? I have played with multi layer checks in my FREECHEX II tools and they formed perfectly, I have tryed aluminum flashing with pop cans and the aluminum lith plates with pop cans and multiple layer stragiht pop cans. With the FREECHEX II it is very simple to punch the first layer and remove the strip and then punch the second, both discs stay in the tool and self alighn, AND I think this makes the difference, the hollow punch holds the discs down and straight while you punch the mandrel through.

JeffinNZ has far more experience with these and I am sure better insight, these are just my observations and experience with my tools.

HTH

Jeff

jhrosier
03-13-2009, 04:21 PM
J...: I always seem to tear one of the pieces. :( Can you explain your process so a idjit can fathom the wonders of a laminated freecheck?

I sure would appreciate some help with it. ....

Edd,

When I use multi layers to form checks, I find that several light taps of the hammer work better than one big one. I was getting a lot of tears before I started doing it this way. I give it one good whack after the check is formed to flatten the base as much as possible.

The multi layer checks work OK but take a lot of extra messing around to make. I think that I'm going to check home depot for some roof flashing material thick enough.

Jack

*Fergot to mention, the check maker tool needs to have enough clearance between the anvil and punch to use two layers. Charlie made one specially sized for me to do this. The first puch was too big and tore the checks nearly all the time.

swheeler
03-13-2009, 05:14 PM
Anyone else own the PRE freechex and FCII(2007)Charlie started out with? All I'm seeing mentioned are the free chex tools. The one where the form mandrel replaced a top punch, and the centering rings went under the hold down nut over the sizer die using your 450/4500 lube-sizer. My 3 caliber set works just fine for me, the hardest part is making sure the aluminum disc is centered and remains centered while forming. For the pop/beer can checks I stack them three(or however many layers it takes to go from shank dia to groove dia+) then just run through sizer w GC seater like any gascheck, accuracy was as good as Hornadys, gators or Lyman. In this picture the silver strip is aluminum roof flashing .013" thick that i used to form checks from, works fine for me. Anyone else?

303Guy
03-13-2009, 09:07 PM
JeffinNZ, those are pretty sleek bullets! Mine are blunt and big (and long). I have two weights from the same mould - 220gr and 245gr. The 220grainers gave me some very tantalizing groups. May I ask what your load is? I am using 35.5gr AR2208 behind my 220gr bullets. How tight does the smaller bullet diameter fit your bore? Have you recovered any fired gas checks? Just wondering whether the laquer coating gets penetrated during firing?

There are two types of coating used on aluminium cans, product side and public side (inside and outside). You want the product side to be running against the bore - much tougher. That coating can resist the acidity of 'coke'! It can also withstand forming and riveting.

Beyound that, aluminium will abrade even the hardest steel away! Admittedly, the worst offender is the heavily oxidized outer layer of cast ingot. That stuff is like sand paper!

JeffinNZ
03-14-2009, 03:30 AM
303GUY: 20.3gr Ar2205. My grooves are .312 and bullets .314 so they fit TIGHT. No checks recovered to date. I would love to get all my lead back but can not. :(

303Guy
03-14-2009, 06:06 AM
Thanks JeffinNZ. I see you did give your load earlier but I missed it. 20.3gr AR2205 is quite a healthy load. Do you know the velocity? How much primer flattening to you get?

swheeler
03-14-2009, 11:14 AM
Where do you get the stuff to make your own gas checks?:confused:

TCrocker; go to Ebay, type "gas check making tool" in the search box, your search will show 30,35 and 44 caliber available right now. If you read all of it it will show the contact info and you can get whatever you want. Great product at a great price. Enjoy Scot