Fun gun to shoot 44-40's in. What maunfacture would you use?

[Just Duke]

I am have eye ooglin this catridge now for awhile and looking for an excuse for the wife and I to get a couple.
Like to get matching pistolas but I would want something with a transfer bar. Ruger no make. <sad face>

[bobk]

Duke,
They ain't fun. I have two rifles, a circa 1993 Marlin, and one from the 1920's. The problems relate to them being a blackpowder cartridge. The chamber neck is a bit small, so boolits sized to fit the rifling will not chamber. This was done purposely on the old guns, to allow the boolit to slip past the fouling at the front of the chamber, and then bump up from the initial thump of the blackpowder. With smokeless, this bump up doesn't happen, so the boolit remains undersized. The best accuracy I got was 4-5" at 100 yards. I thought about doing a semi-heel boolit, seating it to the front driving band, which would be maybe .432. Never got a round toit.

Now, with newly produced guns, the barrel oversize might not be so much, but I wonder if the chambers would allow the use of a .429 boolit, or bullet.

The easy way out is the .45 Colt, which is a fine cartridge. Never having been dimensioned (in the blackpowder era) for use in a rifle, it does not suffer the same problems, and the brass is much less flimsy at the mouth. You can easily buckle a .44-40 by the slightest bit of too much crimp. I've often wondered who the genius was who designed this mess.
Bob K

[Mike Venturino]

I differ 100% from the gent above. I've owned dozens of .44-40 rifles, carbines, and revolvers and its my all time favorite for such guns. Right now I have a Uberti Model 1873 Sporting Rifle, a 1905 vintage Winchester Model 1873 Musket, and a Winchester Model 1892 rifle.

If I were going to buy a newly made .44-40 rifle or carbine it would be a Uberti Model 1873 replica. They have excellent barrels and shoot bp or smokeless fine.

As for revolvers right now I have five Colt single action .44-40s and three from USFA. They suit me well as I'm not worried about the transfer bar thing. In my experience as regards accuracy my brace of Peacemaker Centennial .44-40s will outshoot any other caliber of the SAA except perhaps .38 Specials. The USFA ones will do likewise.

I consider the .44-40 one of the easiest cartridges to reload, as long as someone doesn't tend to get ham-handed with the reloading press handle.

The above is all my opinion based on being a .44-40 handloader/shooter since 1977.

Mike Venturino

[bobk]

Mike,
How about some load recipes? I tried Unique, 2400, 4227, and RL-7, and the results were pretty uniform, between 4 and 5". Not so good. I'd like to try something better. I never slugged the bore of my old Marlin, but it is nice and shiny. I know levers can be made to shoot. Someone suggested I ream the neck, but I'd rather leave it original.

You don't like the .45? The brass is strong. Bob Hagel did a write-up on it many years ago, dispelled the "weak .45 Colt brass" myth, at least with regards to the Federal brass.
Bob K

[Mike Venturino]

bobk: IMR's new Trail Boss powder is a natural for the .44-40 since it nearly fills the case but yet has a fairly fast burning rate. I don't remember the recommended charges right off but they are about 6.0 grains. I'm slowly converting to it for almost all of the black powder era revolver cartridges I load for.

Eight or nine grains of Unique is a pretty good load. For handguns I prefer 6.8 grains of HP38 or W231. A bp duplication load with 200 grain (give or take a few grains) bullets is 17 grains of 5744. It does leave unburned powder but gives good accuracy.

My all time favorite bullet is RCBS 44-200FN, cast of 1-20 tin to lead alloy, sized to .428 inch for all my .44-40s, with SPG lube for bp or any other lube for smokeless.

At 100 yards my Winchesters and Uberti will shoot about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 inches with open sights.

You mention an original Marlin as being a problem. Many early Marlins and 1870s and 1880s Winchesters have over size barrels. That was a common problem in those days. I once had an 1884 vintage Model 1873 Winchester .44-40, in fact the one shown on the cover of my Lever Guns book, that had a .434 inch barrel groove diameter. The only hope of getting something like that to shoot any sort of groups is with dead soft bullets and black powder.

By the late 1890s Winchester pretty much got that barrel diameter problem under control and all the 1873s and 1892s from that period whose barrels I have slugged have been .427 inch. Likewise the new Uberti replicas. The ones I have owned have been .427 inch, as are Colt SAAs and USFA revolvers.

Early 1880s and 1890s Colt SAAs are even worse. They will not chamber with rounds carrying bullets larger than .425 inch but their barrels were about .427 inch. Sometime around 1900 Colt changed that so they would chamber rounds using .427 inch bullets. I recently sold a 1914 vintage one that happily accepted rounds with .428 inch bullets, but a friend's father's old 1882 Colt won't take anything bigger than the .425 inch ones.

Conversely when Colt first brought back the .44-40 in 1982 they put huge chamber mouths in those cylinders. Some were .435 inch and were mated with .427 inch barrels. The wonder is that they shot so well. My 1975 vintage Peacemaker Centennials have .428 inch chamber mouths and .427 inch barrels. Somebody got it right there.

I'm not saying the .44-40 is perfect. It can be problematic but those problems almost always exist with the older 1880s guns. The stuff being made today is much easier to deal with. Once someone gains a bit of experience with the round most of the problems go away.

One of my reasons for not preferring the .45 Colt for lever guns is that the cases are TOO strong. Most do not obturate to seal and therefore leak gas backwards. The evidence of that is the black streaks down the side of the case. Also stand to the side while watching someone shoot a Uberti Model 1873 and you will see a puff of smoke come out of the action at every shot. That never happens with either .38-40s or .44-40s. Some shooters anneal their .45 Colt brass to prevent that.

This is just a thumbnail sketch about the .44-40. I've dealt with the subject in much more detail in several of my books.

I hope this might help a little.
Mike V.

[Junior1942]

Mike, what's a "Peacemaker Centennial"?

[missionary5155]

Down here I have a Win. 1892 (27xxx) 44-40 and with 8-9 grains Unique and the Rapine 260 grain .433 Boolit I can sit all day long and slay pop cans out to 70 yards.
But that Boolit will not chamber in my Colt New Service (smaller diameter cylinders) In this I have to use a real .429 Boolit.

[9.3X62AL]

+1 to Mike's text, in my experience with my 1897-vintage M-73 carbine. Its throat is about .429", grooves a couple ten-thousandths tighter. It will digest and function with both .429" and .431" boolits, I like the SAECO #446 200 grainer best. The carbine's accuracy is similar to that reported by Mike V., which equates to "minute of mule deer" at any range appropriate for a 200 grain boolit going 1100 FPS at the muzzle. The little carbine has taken more blacktails and muleys than the rest of my gun collection put together, several times over.

No experience with the 44-40 in a wheelgun here. Yet.

[Mike Venturino]

Junior: The Peacemaker Centennials were the 100 year commemoratives of the Colt Single Action Army revolver. That said, instead of 1973 Colt managed to finally get them out in 1975. One side of their barrels contains the 1873-1973 marking.

Colt made two versions of these. One was with color case hardened frame and hammer with the rest blued. Grips were one piece walnut and caliber was .45 Colt.

The other was fully nickel-plated with black hard rubber grips and in .44-40 caliber. These were marked "COLT FRONTIER SIX SHOOTER" on the left side of the barrel.

Both versions had the so-called black powder frame which consists of the cylinder pin retaining screw angling in from the front. Also both versions had 7 1/2 inch barrels. Both versions had all the little features that made them authentic to their genre. The .45 version was meant to replicate the U.S. Cavalry revolvers so they had the little US on the left side of the frame. The .44 version was meant to replicate an early civilian version. It had the tiny ".44 CF" on the left side of the trigger guard.

I consider them some of the finest Colt SAAs ever made. Colt made precisely 2002 of each version. I hunted and scrounged until I came up with two of each for myself.

I hope this answers your question.
Mike V.

[Junior1942]

Junior: . . .I consider them some of the finest Colt SAAs ever made. Colt made precisely 2002 of each version. I hunted and scrounged until I came up with two of each for myself.

I hope this answers your question.
Mike V.Yep, it answered my question, but it also made me jealous as heck. . . .

[EDK]

There are several (IIRC) 44/40 Original Size VAQUEROS currently on Gunbroker and/or Auction Arms. If you want something, you got to look a little bit! and that goes for a lot of things LOL

I shoot 44 Specials/Magnums because of carbide sizing dies. If you want to shoot 44/40, or 38/40 or 32/20, you have to lube your casings...and take a little care running them through the reloading machine. With the spray lubes currently available, life is a lot easier than 30 or 40 years ago. I'd de-cap and re-size in a single stage press, run the brass through a tumbler to clean off the lube, then run it through a 550B DILLON...CAREFULLY!...and it would be mass production time!

You need to do some homework on the 44/40 RUGERS also. They allegedly had chamber throats of .427 and barrels with .430 groove diameter. Hamilton Bowen, among others, would ream the chambers to match groove diameter...just ship him the cylinder. CAS at cylindersmith might offer the same service...I don't know off the top of my head.

Someone quoted a story about an early 44/40 Colt SAA locking up every time it was fired...the suggestion was that the brass was too thick and wouldn't obdurate(sp?) in the chambers. To solve the problem, the brass was made thinner....it also meant you weren't going to get too many reloads out of it...added benefit to ammo makers! The tapered casing and thinner brass are perfect for black powder loads...not quite so ideal for smokeless.

There's information on 'most anything you want if you ask the right questions. Mike Venturino and John Taffin contributed to my education over the years ...If you don't have all their books, you're going to be wasting a lot of time "re-inventing the wheel!" AND they'll autograph them when you ask if you order the books from them...I get DOUBLES of the ones I use as references: Show and Tell books in the book case; the using reference books with coffee stains and finger prints are in the boys' reading room. I just wish I'd done the same and got all of Elmer Keith's books...and Bill Jordan and Charles Askins and Jeff Cooper.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Four Fingers of Death]

I like the 44/40, even with the lubing and limitations imposed by the brass. I have three Colt clones, an old 92, an early 1866 Uberti (looks sad, but goes good with the right ammo) and a brand new Uberti 1873. Sweet guns.

I also have 4x 45 colts, 2x NM vaqueros and 2x Blackhawk convertibles. I switched over to the 44/40 revolvers as i wanted the same ammo on the loading table at cowboy matches and want to shoot BP eventually and the 45 is not known for easy times as a rifle calibre, so 44/40 it was.

Both the 45 and 44/40 are good old boys and both are a fun cartridges.

I have two 44/40 Piettas as my current cowboy guns. They have been slicked up some and are sweettttttttttttttttttttttt! Don't worry about the transfer bar, just load 5 and be careful, that system has worked well for 132 years and before that on percussion revolvers.

[Just Duke]

The wife and I were ooogling these.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cf1873SingleAction.tpl


Any main functional and reliable difference between the 1873 and the 1892's in the Uberti's Mike?

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfTaylors92Collection.tpl

[EDK]

The wife and I were ooogling these.

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cf1873SingleAction.tpl


Any main functional and reliable difference between the 1873 and the 1892's in the Uberti's Mike?

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfTaylors92Collection.tpl

Mike Venturino and John Taffin are the two top writers of our generation. I think I can speak safely and say that they both would recommend US Firearms as makers of the best SAA clones...they both own and shoot them. There is a chapter of Taffin's SINGLE ACTION SIXGUNS devoted to them. Brian Pearce had his clones of Elmer Keith's famous #5 Single Action made on US Firearms frames; Hamilton Bowen mentioned them favorably in THE CUSTOM REVOLVER.

The 1873 Winchester replica is a relatively weak BUT SMOOTH action. The cowboy action shooters like them because they can be made smooooth! And those guys are not going to be feeding anything like a maximum load in their competition rifles. You got style points and competitive edge with a '73. A case hardened receiver and octagon barrel sure look nice; a high level shooter using a '73 with a short stroke action can have multiple casings in the air and sound like full auto!

The 1892 is a John Browning design..."a minature 1886" noted for it's strength. Newly manufactured guns are completely safe in 44 magnum. It is considerably lighter than a '73 with the same barrel length. The only flaw is that it ejects out the top...that's why I own Marlins.

Lay out what you want....a pretty match gun or a working gun.

Get copies of all of John and Mike's books plus Bowen's THE CUSTOM REVOLVER. A subscription to GUNS, AMERICAN HANDGUNNER, RIFLE, HANDLOADER and GUNS OF THE OLD WEST and all the issues of the now defunct SHOOT! MAGAZINE would help enlighten you also. AND join SASS so you get COWBOY CHRONICLE every month. You have a good start with the internet forums.

:Fire::cbpour::redneck:

[Mumblypeg]

Mike, You have 8 SAA's? My God man what do you do, write books about this stuff or something? ( Kidding, I know he does.)

[Mike Venturino]

No Mumblypeg, I don't have eight SAAs. That's just the .44-40s. That's not counting the .357 Magnums, .44 Specials, .38-40s, and .45 Colts. R recently sold off several others in order to put the money into something new. (And fun! But you'll have to watch the pages of the next issues GUNS and THE AMERICAN HANDGUNNER to see what they are.)

MLV

[Mike Venturino]

Opps. I almost forgot Duke Nukem's question...... I consider the Uberti Model 1873s to be the best of all the modern made replica lever guns.

Again, that is just my opinion.

[Lloyd Smale]

Duke if i read your post right your looking for handguns on the lever gun fourm and that might be causeing some confusion. In a handgun id look at a couple usfa rodeos or cowboys. In a rifle id look at a uberti. Tell you whats calling me! Id just love a colt lightning replica in 4440!!!

[Just Duke]

Duke if i read your post right your looking for handguns on the lever gun fourm and that might be causeing some confusion. In a handgun id look at a couple usfa rodeos or cowboys. In a rifle id look at a uberti. Tell you whats calling me! Id just love a colt lightning replica in 4440!!!


Leverguns and Matching pistolas all in the same caliber Lloyd. ;) I found the bullet you sent me finally after unpacking and repacking for our second divisional move.

[Just Duke]

In a handgun id look at a couple usfa rodeos or cowboys. !!!
Would you have a link Lloyd?

[Just Duke]

Opps. I almost forgot Duke Nukem's question...... I consider the Uberti Model 1873s to be the best of all the modern made replica lever guns.

Again, that is just my opinion.

I am going to go with a couple of those then. Thanks for your info Mike! :D

[Just Duke]

Down here I have a Win. 1892 (27xxx) 44-40 and with 8-9 grains Unique and the Rapine 260 grain .433 Boolit I can sit all day long and slay pop cans out to 70 yards.
But that Boolit will not chamber in my Colt New Service (smaller diameter cylinders) In this I have to use a real .429 Boolit.

Hello from the US to Peru again Missionary. 70 yards? That's some fine shootin. ;)

[KirkD]

I've had three different vintage 44-40 rifles and carbines and loved them all. The 44-40 is one of my all-time favourite cartridges. My current joy is a Winchester Model 1892 made in 1913. With a .429 hard cast bullet over 13 grains of 2400 and 1/2 sheet of 1-ply toilet paper filler, I can get a 5-shot group of 1 & 9/16" at 100 yards with open iron sights from a rest. The worst 44-40 bore I ever had was in an original Winchester 1873 made in 1888. The bore was outrageous, but I still was able to get sub-5" 5-shot groups at 100 yards with .431 cast bullets and toilet paper filler. Now if you want a sixgun in 44-40, I'd go with what Mike said.

[6pt-sika]

Well lets see at the moment I have a pair of 44-40's and both of mine as you would imagine were made by Marlin . However both od mine were made in the last 12 or so years . And both can shoot cast bullets sized for my Marlin 44 MAGS .

One is the 1894CB with a 24" barrel and checkered stocks . My other is a 1894CCL with a 20" barrel and uncheckered stocks . And of course both are octagon barreled and stright gripped .

In the hopefully near future I would like to get my hands on a decent "original" Marlin 1894 in 44-40 with hopefully a 24" octagon barrel preferably made between 1894 and 1906 . But I don't want much :p

[Wayne Smith]

Duke, the Taylor guns are Uberti's with the Taylor name on them. Don't bother paying the premium, just get the Uberti's. I've got the Cattleman in 7.5" standard grip and in the 4.75" Birdshead grip and the 1874 Short Rifle all in 44-40. I load these and shoot them with FFFG and a 200gr big lube boolit. Accurate (well, I can't hit anything with the Birdshead! - but other people can) and a joy to shoot. Clean up with soap and water - I use Murphy's Oil Soap. More fun than cap and ball, but you do have to clean up the cases. Vibratory cleaner with ceramic does it easily and quickly.

[Lloyd Smale]

http://www.usfirearms.com/
Would you have a link Lloyd?

[yarro]

1873 Win clone by Uberti if you want to shoot black or lighter smokeless loads.
1892 Win clone if you want to shoot smokeless, especially if you want to stoke them for perforating critters. The 92 is much smoother than the 94 action.

-Yarro

[Just Duke]

Duke, the Taylor guns are Uberti's with the Taylor name on them. Don't bother paying the premium, just get the Uberti's. I've got the Cattleman in 7.5" standard grip and in the 4.75" Birdshead grip and the 1874 Short Rifle all in 44-40. I load these and shoot them with FFFG and a 200gr big lube boolit. Accurate (well, I can't hit anything with the Birdshead! - but other people can) and a joy to shoot. Clean up with soap and water - I use Murphy's Oil Soap. More fun than cap and ball, but you do have to clean up the cases. Vibratory cleaner with ceramic does it easily and quickly.

Thanks for the heads up on the price check. Yea that's kinda what I thought.

[Just Duke]

I've had three different vintage 44-40 rifles and carbines and loved them all. The 44-40 is one of my all-time favourite cartridges. My current joy is a Winchester Model 1892 made in 1913. With a .429 hard cast bullet over 13 grains of 2400 and 1/2 sheet of 1-ply toilet paper filler, I can get a 5-shot group of 1 & 9/16" at 100 yards with open iron sights from a rest. The worst 44-40 bore I ever had was in an original Winchester 1873 made in 1888. The bore was outrageous, but I still was able to get sub-5" 5-shot groups at 100 yards with .431 cast bullets and toilet paper filler. Now if you want a sixgun in 44-40, I'd go with what Mike said.

That's some good shootin Kirk.

[KirkD]

Too bad I can't do it all the time. I have a few vintage Winchesters that will shoot sub-2" five-shot groups at 100 yards on a good day, when I can see extra good and I haven't had any coffee. Most days, however, I've had coffee and my 54-year old eyes can't quite find the sweet spot in my glasses. Then I'm happy with sub-3" groups at 100 yards with the open iron sights on these old guns.

[Just Duke]

Too bad I can't do it all the time. I have a few vintage Winchesters that will shoot sub-2" five-shot groups at 100 yards on a good day, when I can see extra good and I haven't had any coffee. Most days, however, I've had coffee and my 54-year old eyes can't quite find the sweet spot in my glasses. Then I'm happy with sub-3" groups at 100 yards with the open iron sights on these old guns.

All I have to be able to shoot is 3 Minute of Moose or 4 Minute of Buffalo.

[KirkD]

Duke, you got that right! It doesn't really matter what the gun will do off a rest. Once I stand up and start shooting offhand (which I'm doing a lot of right now in preparation for hunting in a couple months), if I can keep 10 shots in an 8" circle at 100 yards with my 30-30 carbine with iron sights, I'm happy. If I can keep them all in a 6" circle, I consider myself lucky. The rifles with a long, heavy octagon barrel are easier to shoot accurately offhand than a 30-30 carbine.

[405]

1873 Win clone by Uberti if you want to shoot black or lighter smokeless loads.
1892 Win clone if you want to shoot smokeless, especially if you want to stoke them for perforating critters. The 92 is much smoother than the 94 action.

-Yarro

X2 to that!
The transition from the Henry/66/73/76 type action to the 86/92/71 type action is notable, very large leap and worth noting when planning on what horsepower loads you're going to burn. The genius of John Browning on display.

[tn gun runner]

Not to get in a pissing contest . I've had no less that 50 SA in all different cal , In
the last 40 yrs . I have 6 Vaquero's right now , [2] in 32-20 and [4] in 44-40 and
sold 8 Vaquero in 357 , 44mag and 45LC in the last 2 yrs . The 44-40 is king in my
book . I have reloaded my 44-40 brass over 60 times WITHOUT 1 case failture in
the last 12 yrs . I can reload BP and cowboy loads without the black soot you get
with a straight wall case , plus I reload it to meet or exceed 44 mag spec in my
Vaquero and 92 Rossi . The 32-20 , 38-40 and 44-40 where design to work in a
lever gun and seal BP and not be finicky in speed chambering the next round . All
my 44-40 have .429 barrels and all are tack drivers . I got my 1st [3] deer in Tn with
this 92 rossi and I have used it in SASS the last 12 yrs without a hitch .

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/44-40ROSSI.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/Picture060-1.jpg

[August]

The Uberti '73 is the Huckleberry, IMHO. I am partial to Taylor's, but as others have said, any Uberti is fine. I suggest you contact Cody Conegher as he has a direct line to Taylor's and seems to be able to get rifles when others cannot.

There are Ruger 44-40s floating around. If you are patient, you probably can come up with a consecutive pair. Watch the SASS Wire and Gunbroker. It won't take long, if Rugers are what you want.

Personally, I have a pair of USFAs done up by Jim Finch (a.k.a. Longhunter) that are as close to perfect as any gun I've ever owned (yes, I've got Colt's too). These pistols are dead accurate, smooth, great to look at, and dependable. Jim opens the forcing cone, widens the sights, changes out the springs, and will adjust the barrel-cylinder gap if you request it (i.e. if black powder is your goal). You will pay a 200 buck premium for USFA gunz (over Cimmaron or Taylors or Rugers) and about 600 bucks less than Colt's.

So, to review, Call Cody and Jim and get the ball rolling.

[405]

Not to get in a pissing contest . I've had no less that 50 SA in all different cal , In
the last 40 yrs . I have 6 Vaquero's right now , [2] in 32-20 and [4] in 44-40 and
sold 8 Vaquero in 357 , 44mag and 45LC in the last 2 yrs . The 44-40 is king in my
book . I have reloaded my 44-40 brass over 60 times WITHOUT 1 case failture in
the last 12 yrs . I can reload BP and cowboy loads without the black soot you get
with a straight wall case , plus I reload it to meet or exceed 44 mag spec in my
Vaquero and 92 Rossi . The 32-20 , 38-40 and 44-40 where design to work in a
lever gun and seal BP and not be finicky in speed chambering the next round . All
my 44-40 have .429 barrels and all are tack drivers . I got my 1st [3] deer in Tn with
this 92 rossi and I have used it in SASS the last 12 yrs without a hitch .

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/44-40ROSSI.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/Picture060-1.jpg
The original post was in reference to suggestions on which lever guns (model or manufacturer) in 44-40

[tn gun runner]

Like to get matching pistolas but I would want something with a transfer bar. Ruger no make. <sad face>

405.......post 1,3,5,7,12,19 and 35 all talked about pistols and levers
post 9,11,15,16, and 25 only talked about pistols . Is 405 your forum
police badge number

[Just Duke]

405.......post 1,3,5,7,12,19 and 35 all talked about pistols and levers
post 9,11,15,16, and 25 only talked about pistols . Is 405 your forum
police badge number

Levers with caliber matching pistol. ;)
One knows one has to have both to complete his/her ensemble. <heavy staugy brit-ish accent>

[missionary5155]

Hello from the US to Peru again Missionary. 70 yards? That's some fine shootin. ;)

Greetings
Well I have a GREAT vision problem... my left eye is slowly deteriorating at distance... BUt my Right eye is (last exam) 25-20... I hope that order is correct. I can see at 25 feet what most can see at 20. I have to where glasses to down grade my right eye so I do not get headaches. When it is shooting/hunting time I forget the glasses and put up with the headache. I do where shootings glasses at the range but not hunting. And I practice... I have shot that Winny enough to know where to aim. It is sighted to 50 yards with a 6 oclock hold... at 70 I just cover the target..SMACK. I seldom shoot it past about 70.. :Fire:

[tn gun runner]

Levers with caliber matching pistol. ;)
One knows one has to have both to complete his/her ensemble. <heavy staugy brit-ish accent>
The 32-20 are a super cal but hard to find

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/ruger32-20.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/32-20marlin-2.jpg

The 44-40 is another great cal

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/my44-40.jpg
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z195/dukeboy51/44-40ROSSI.jpg

[bobk]

Mike Venturino,
I checked my notes, from years ago. The purchased cast boolits I used grouped 4-5" with Unique, and 4227. The best accuracy I got was with 200 jacketed bullits, and about a case full of RL-7. This duplicated the old high velocity .44-40 load, so I will not quote any specific powder charge, in deference to any original '73's. The rifle is an oddball '94 Marlin, from somewhere in the '20s when Marlin reorganized twice. The reason I say oddball is because it is 1 20" short rifle. As you probably know, rifles had a cased receiver, and octagon barrel, and a forend cap. The carbines had a blued receiver, round barrel, and barrel bands. The bore is nice.

Now, here's the kicker: I bought a 1894C for my wife, and purchased it from her after we divorced. I initially worked up 140 gr. jacketed loads, with the Sierra. They grouped 1 1/2-1 3/4. After I read about the base cupping problem in the .357 Maximum Rugers, I switched to the 140 Speer, which grouped 1 3/4-2 inches.

I haven't glassed either of these rifles, although I probably smoothed the triggers, which I used to do on everything. So, here we have two very similar design rifles, and one is much more accurate than the other. I do not suspect the .44s bedding, as there is no tendency to double-group, just big, symmetrical groups. This is why I commented about the accuracy of the .44. I think that it's ammunition-related, and that I can probably get it to shoot much better, if I take the time to search out the best load. When I retire, I may just do that. For now, though, I'll relegate it to a plinker usage. I think those of you who have been fortunate to have accurate .44s have either stumbled onto the right load for your rifles, or put more work into it than I did. However, I took a Glenfield with a cracked stock, glued it and glassed it, and wound up with a rifle that shoots anything into less than 2", and one specific load into just over an inch, this with a 4X scope. It's going to be my .30-30 cast boolit gun. "Only accurate rifles are interesting. Col. Townsend Whelen"

Bob K

[Mike Venturino]

Bobk: I think this is a situation of making judgements on experience with only a small sample of .44-40s. I did exactly the same thing with my very first .44-40 revolver - an 1892 Colt SAA. Its chambers would accept bullets no larger than .425 inch but its barrel was .427 inch. You couldn't hit one of John Taffin's hats at 25 yards with it. I swore off of .44-40s for several years. Then Colt brought the round back in the 1980s and I gave it another try with excellent results.

Also, as I said I've had early Winchester 1873s with drastically oversize barrels that would have been lucky to have grouped as well as your Marlin '94. In fact they would only "group" at all with bp loads and dead soft bullets.

Conversely, when you get a .44-40 - handgun or rifle/carbine - with proper dimensions then it can be a tackdriver. I fault the guns made for the caliber and not the cartridge itself.

It is now my favorite single action revolver round, and lever action round for those guns chambered for pistol cartridges.

Good luck with yours after retirement.
MLV

[Glen]

John does like big hats.... ;-)

[missionary5155]

This ia a 1892 27,xxx made in 1893 (early) . It is a SRC with 2 inches removed from barrel as the muzzle was badly damaged by cleaning rods (walloed out) and it took two inches to get back to sharp rifling. Taller front sight soldered on. Marbles carbine rear sight. Sighted to plop a .434 Rapine 260 grain 30-1 boolit at 50 yards. 8 grains Unique. :-D

[missionary5155]

This one prefers a .428 200 grain boolit. I use a 30-1 mix and 9 grains Unique.
Front sight had been shortened so I used a simple remedy to make it taller.

[w30wcf]

Duke Nukem,
If you like originality, a '73 Winchester Clone (Uberti) would be the way to go. I am fortunate enough to have an original '73 Short Rifle. The '73 is one neat gun!:mrgreen:
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/44WCFbmp.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/4473jpg.jpg

On the other hand, if you want a more modern lever gun, I would recommend the Marlin '94 .44-40 since original Winchester '92's can be a bit pricey!! I Purchased one recently and fired this target @ 50 yards using black powder. My '73 shoots just as well.
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/012.jpg
w30wcf