Blackpowder

[jjamna]

Anyone ever made any Blackpowder? I got some recipes and think I am going to try it. Any Pointers?
Jeff

[Skipper]

Yeah.....put on your ear-protectors and open the windows.

:shock:

[jjamna]

Why the ear protectors?

[Nueces]

I made some as a kid, for use as rocket fuel. Was worried about sparking, so I used a ceramic mortar and pestle, with rubbing alcohol as a wetting agent, to combine the ingredients. The alcohol readily evaporated, leaving lumpy powder, which I carefully de-lumped. I recall using some to fire an old .58 caliber rifle then mixing the rest with sulfur to make the rocket fuel.

The bang part was not impressive, the rocket fuel worked better, but not as well as DuPont BP, also mixed with sulfur. In order to get non-crumbling powder grains that hold their size, some sort of binding agent is needed. I read somewhere that the finest European powders were wetted with "wine drinker's urine." Well, I wasn't gonna do that and I could get real powder, so I dropped the powder making project.

I can still see the look on my brother's face after he ate the plume from about a teaspoon of one of our first attempts (therefore, the alcohol). Be careful!

Mark

[Cap'n Morgan]

Making blackpowder is, like so many other things, illegal here in Europe... except for Switzerland. Ulrich Bretscher has a great homepage which explain the process step by step. (hint: quality charcoal is the key to good powder)

http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/homemade_bp.html

[The Double D]

Do some research on the internet and learn how how to do it right, it is not just mixing the three ingrediants together.

I just did a guick Google and got a long list. Here's the first one http://www.libertylib.com/how-to-make-black-powder-and-other-explosives.shtml

[wiljen]

If one were thinking about making BP, this site might have all the materials needed.

http://www.firefox-fx.com/

They sell all the stuff for making fireworks etc. Always good to start with reagent grade stuff.

[jjamna]

I don't know if it is going to happen or not. I think it can be done easy enough( been done for over 200yrs) but the price of the chemicals will be the deciding factor. All info sent so far has been super. Capn Morgans Link is a very good read. Wiljen's link has some very good prices but you have to have a Manufactures license, then only 1 pound of certain things a year. The reason I wanted to do it in the first place was cost. I bought a can of powder this time last year for around $16 I just bought a can Fri $21.99 plus tax.
If I can find the chemicals at a good price I will move on otherwise it is dead.
Thanks for the replies---As always you guy's look at all aspect's of my crazy ideas and don't make a fool of me.
That is what makes this website as Great as it is. Lets keep it that way
Jeff

[NickSS]

I made some years ago using charcole briquets. It was weak and dirty to use but it did work at a time that I could not buy store bought powder anywhere near me. I made about five pounds altogether but quit as soon as powder was available in stores as it was much more satisfactory product.

[jjamna]

NickSS I can't find any true blackpowder anywhere. All I find is substitutes. but subs are fine just wish they (and everything else) were cheaper.

[Southern Son]

A bloke I used to shoot with made some up. He mixed it wet with water and then left it in the shed for a few weeks to dry. He used it in a home made cannon (Length of water pipe with one end welded up). We never launched anything in it, just stuffed paper in the end and made one hell of a boom. When he mixed up a second batch, he wanted to dry it faster, so he left it on an old wood burning stove inside the shed we slept in when we went shooting. We had finished cooking dinner and were all sitting outside watching the sunset when there was a big woosh noise from inside the shed, then smoke started pouring out of every opening. Took us a while to work out what had happened, but we all had a good laugh when we did.

[trevj]

Take a look on homegunsmith.com. Register and login, and have a look at the 28 or so pages that one of the guys there wrote up on his experiments.
It's in the blackpowder foum there, and you won't see it at all, unless you register.
He is using a rock tumbler style tumbler for a ball mill and getting results comparable to commercial powder.

Cheers
Trev

[Old Ironsights]

Making BP is a good way to get the BATFE all up in your face...

GO here - http://musketeer.ch/blackpowder/history.html for the best educational information.

But if you try it, be sure to tell the revenooers that I said "don't"...

[Old Ironsights]

NickSS I can't find any true blackpowder anywhere. All I find is substitutes. but subs are fine just wish they (and everything else) were cheaper.

It's easy enough to order.

http://www.grafs.com/powders/3522
http://powderinc.com/
http://mainepowderhouse.com/

[The Double D]

It's easy enough to order.

http://www.grafs.com/powders/3522
http://powderinc.com/
http://mainepowderhouse.com/

Powder Inc, will ship in 5 lb lots and their price includes the hazmat fee. They will mix and match brands and grades.

I haven't check recently, but Graf's and Maine Powder house may also offer 5 lb lots.

Also check these two sites and look at the distributors list, you may find one near you.

Schützen Powder LLC. Swiss, Schützen and Elephant Brand Powder. Click on "Distributors" to find a distributor in your area - http://www.schuetzenpowder.com

GOEX - http://www.goexpowder.com

[jjamna]

What kind of shipping fees are involved. I have never ordered powder I always figuired the shipping cost would raise it up where it would be cheaper to buy locally.

The more I think about it the more I think about the first sentence in Old Ironsides first post.

[ktw]

The last time I bought it in quantity, local price was $15-$18/lb. Mail order ran more like $10-$11/lb shipped, plus a $20 hazmat charge, regardless of quantity. If you are ordering in quantity (10-25lbs), mail order from some place like PowderInc is almost always quite a bit cheaper than buying locally.

-ktw

[leftiye]

There are devastating burns to be had from even small amounts of black powder that is ignited. You can be burned as far away as three feet by as little as about 500 grains of BP if ignited if the right channeling (your arm) is present. Second and third degree burns too! Ever tried igniting a single charge with a match? Notice how your fingers turned white? That's your skin being cooked.

[The Double D]

The last time I bought it in quantity, local price was $15-$18/lb. Mail order ran more like $10-$11/lb shipped, plus a $20 hazmat charge, regardless of quantity. If you are ordering in quantity (10-25lbs), mail order from some place like PowderInc is almost always quite a bit cheaper than buying locally.

-ktw


I just looked at PowderIncs prices;
5 lb. lot: $18.80 per lb.
10 lb. lot: $14.90 per lb.
25 or 50 lb. lot: $11.85 per lb.
Price includes shipping and hazmat fee.


Notice includes shipping and hazmat fee!!

[Boz330]

Jeff,
Are you a member of NMLRA? Friendship Nationals are coming up in 2 weeks and you can buy powder there at the bulk price for a couple hours every day. It is a neat place to go in any event if you like the front suffers. It is about 2 hours out of Louisville.
Where in western KY are you?

Bob

[Bent Ramrod]

Black powder needs to be incorporated before it becomes intimately enough mixed to be effective as a propellant. This is typically done on a large set of heavy wheels that rotate in a circular wooden trough. First the sulphur is incorporated into the charcoal and then the mixture is dampened and the saltpetre is incorporated in. The heavier the wheels and the longer they are run, the better the incorporation. Probably the little ball mill tumbler would do a good enough job for fireworks powder, but I doubt it would be competitive in target shooting.

The damp incorporated mixture eventually has to be dried into a cake, broken up and sieved to get particle sizes. This is supposed to be the most dangerous part of the operation. The particles are also glazed in a tumbler to prevent further attrition.

There was a documentary on TV about 20 years ago about Mexican fireworks and they interviewed a man who had made the powder for all the fireworks for all the fiestas in the area. He made the stuff in a couple sheds out behind his house and he had a little incorporation wheel setup powered by a water wheel in a creek. He was an old guy who was missing a couple of fingers.

[jjamna]

Bob
No I am not a member. I am about 30 miles south of Evansville Indiana. I first heard about Friendship 30 or 35 years ago. A neighbor when I was a kid would go every year. I always wanted to go but never did. I am now disabled ( to much time to think) so maybe I might get a chance to go. Can you give me the exact dates. Do they have anything for BP cartridges?
That is what i am into the most. I do have 6 front stuff rifles and three pistols though. We have 2 local gun clubs and one does 3 gun meets and the other is Cowboy action. I would like to get them to do some sillywet (I always wanted to write it like this) shooting.

[waksupi]

I'd bought 50# from Upper Missouri Trading Co. last year. This was two separate orders, of the Schutzen powder. Ran right around $300 per 25# delivered. Give Doc Carlson a call, and ask for a quote.

[Don McDowell]

Black Powder is classed as an Explosive, by the BATFE , and those fine folks don't allow any exemption for "home " use.

Go to Grafs.com and the price you see is what it'll cost except for the handling fee, and the hazmat. The more you order the less affect on the final price the hazmat fee has, and occasionally they'll pay the hazmat on a full case. Long story short even if you only order 4 lbs of their powder ( schuetzen with a Grafs label) or ordinary Goex, it'll be less than you just payed at your local guy.

If I can't get Bear River Powder to answer the phone or emails, then I order from Grafs, day in and day out they usually end up either the cheapest or close enough.
Track of the Wolf also offers real good price, but they won't go for less than case lots altho the brands can be mixed.

[Jon K]

I also buy from Powder Inc.
You can mix & match in the order, you can also buy less than a full case.

Maine Powder House and Upper Missouri will only sell full case of each Brand/ganular grade.

Jon

[Boz330]

Bob
No I am not a member. I am about 30 miles south of Evansville Indiana. I first heard about Friendship 30 or 35 years ago. A neighbor when I was a kid would go every year. I always wanted to go but never did. I am now disabled ( to much time to think) so maybe I might get a chance to go. Can you give me the exact dates. Do they have anything for BP cartridges?
That is what i am into the most. I do have 6 front stuff rifles and three pistols though. We have 2 local gun clubs and one does 3 gun meets and the other is Cowboy action. I would like to get them to do some sillywet (I always wanted to write it like this) shooting.

Saturday 13 Sep thru Sunday 21 Sep. Earlier in the week has the most vendors on commercial row but it's nothing like it used to be in the 70s and 80s. You have to be a member to buy powder though. They have everything available. I shoot Swiss which was $19 a lb in June but I think that Goex is about $11 or $12 if you use that. The big thing is that you get case price no matter how much you get. I typically get mine from Deer Creek Products in Waldron IN but I normally buy a case at a time anyway. His prices are actually a little cheaper than NMLRA. I have a buddy that goes by there with his job so I just let him know when I need some.
I'm not sure what day I'm going to be there yet but if you were there I could get it for you.
Friendship has sillywet matches almost every month, sometimes twice a month. there are actually 2 this month.

Bob

[missionary5155]

Does anyone know if there is a regulation that states a "LIMIT " to how much Black can be transported in a private vehicle ? Is a hundred pounds OK ?

[Old Ironsights]

Does anyone know if there is a regulation that states a "LIMIT " to how much Black can be transported in a private vehicle ? Is a hundred pounds OK ?

Depends on the State, but the general Rule of thumb is that an individual can not possess more than 50lbs of BP in a single location.

[freedom475]

Just got 25lbs. from Grafs, they had a special where they paid hazmat.......price came to less than 12$ per lb for the 25lbs delivered. they were willing to mix granulation size in the same case lot.

I would suggest to everyone to buy only Goex powder as this is our last American BP factory and if they "go under" who knows where our sport and our rights might end up.

Makeing your own is always a nice option, and may God always bless the people of this great nation that keeps this a right of its people! Ebay is the best source for your saltpeter and Alder is the best wood to use for your charcoal.

[missionary5155]

I did not know that Goex was THE last.. I use their powder and will just continue to do so !