Custom wads for Lee Key Drive Slugs

[Hogtamer]

I'm a "tinkerer" with no skills but there are some very skilled folks on this site. To them I propose an idea, Cap'n Morgan and Uncle Dino come to mind and there may be others that have knowledge of plastics. I guess the interest in the Russian slugs with snap on wads is what got me thinking. Everyone seems to have a lee slug mold as they are fairly cheap and reliable. In my dream world I sit at my bench, size and prime an ubiquitous Remington or Winchester hull and drop the appropriate powder charge. Reach over and grab my molded wad, the top of which is exactly like the hollow base pin on the lee key drive mold. My slug is a nice snap fit onto the wad that is the appropriate length for the hull with a good gas seal and crush section, a tight fit in the hull. The wad's diameter is large enough to fill the bore of my gun, rifled or smooth, larger than the slug. Crimp and go. When I fire the finished load the slug never touches the bore, but the wad engages the rifling or fills the smoothbore to center it. The inserts of the wad into the partitioned slug base keep the slug from spinning and becomes an attached wad all the way to the target. Of course I don't have an "easy button" and no such wad exists, but I do have a pattern from the mold base pin and and a typical wad to show someone in the plastics molding business for the gas seal and crush section. Is this feasible or do I just need to go back to bed?

[William Yanda]

And I thought I had a complex question about the best material to make a card to sit under the wad. Plastic milk jug, paper milk carton, bar coaster or other?

[Hogtamer]

William, whatever you use it needs to be the same size as the same diameter of the outside of the slug and 1/8" thick. The 20 ga card is slightly small and will often jam crooked in the base hurting accuracy. The 16 ga card is to big to fit the bottom of tapered wads. The compromise is first a 20 ga card then the 16 ga. Either is better than no card though.

[Cap'n Morgan]

Okay... I'll bite.

Your idea is intriguing. I believe Winchester slugs uses something similar but without a cushion-section and seal. Personally, I'm convinced accuracy will be better if the wad only serves as a bore-guide & stabilizer and the cushion/seal function is achieved with a separate wad (a used wad, picked up at the range and with the petals removed would do the trick)

As for a dedicated Lee Key Drive wad it would certainly be possible, but since the slug is not a bore-rider the wad would probably need to be of a certain height to keep the slug from tilting - that's why my latest slug design has the wad partly covering the slug.

I can see a slight problem getting the wad and slug to stick together during flight. The fit must be rather tight, and preferable the wad should match the internal profile of the Key Drive exactly. A dab of super glue would certainly not harm.

The project would lend itself perfectly to 3-D printing. If someone has access to a 3-D printer, I would be happy to make the STL files for printing the wad provided someone can come up with the exact internal measurements for the Key Drive slug.

[Hogtamer]

Heh Heh Heh.....Cap'n you are a can-do guy with skills! I'd be happy to tear up a mold and send someone the built-in base pin from a lee mold to measure accurately, or the entire mold. The plastic would have to be stout enough so that the inserts wouldn't shear off when the slug engaged the rifling but soft enough to engrave, not fracture. Of course that wouldn't be a concern from smoothbore. Obviously I know nothing of plastics but something akin to the composition of an x12x gas seal. Come to think of it, imagine an x12x with inserts molded on sitting atop a BPI brush wad. I hate cutting and trimming petals.

[RogerDat]

Most innovation is driven by people that "hate cutting and trimming petals" or some other annoying aspect of a process. Which causes them to start thinking about a better way.

Have to wonder in the spirit of "gloves" is there a better way to cut and trim petals of an existing wad?

[jcren]

How about a "under card" type thing molded to fit the keydrive with an integral 1/8" or so "card" base that fit a wad snugly? Could insert into the slug, dab of glue to attach the plug/card into the base of the wad so it would drop away immediately with the wad. This way it could be used with standard wads, simplifying the mold and increasing loading options to find an optimal fit in various shotguns.

[longbow]

Not quite the same but similar...

I've made forms up for other slugs to add a hot melt glue tail wad Brenneke style. My original goal was to try to duplicate AQ slugs at home with readily available items.

It works and works pretty well except... hot melt glue guns are not injection moulding equipment! I have mostly been using CPVC pipe couplings bored out to suite the slug with wheelbearing grease as mould release. Slide the slug in one end then tip up and squirt hot melt glue in (heavy duty hot melt glue is like plastic), overfill the form a bit then invert the whole works and press down on a piece of cold steel. After they cool the slug and tail wad can be pushed out of the form. This gives a pretty good result and quite consistent tail wads but air bubbles are a problem as is shrinkage making for slightly uneven base at times.

These are all wad slugs so no glue touches the bore. I also tumble the finished slugs in talcum powder to make sure the glue tail wad isn't sticky.

I've posted photos before of some of my straight sided slugs and I have now made a form to suit Lee slugs so have some made up and loaded waiting to shoot... but it is snowing heavily again today so it may wait yet another weekend. Since I may be snowed in (we're expecting up to 10" snowfall today on top of what we have) I'll see if I can get some pics of the Lee slugs with tail wads then post them.

With a better glue injection method this should provide a pretty decent slug an average guy can make using readily available moulds as Hal has commented on.

One thing I have found with hot melt glue though is that with typical Foster style hollow bases with release tapers, the glue does not hold well to the slugs. The bond tends to be poor and tail wads frequently drop off. Pre-heating the slugs would likely help but I drill then put a screw in the HB so the glue has something to grip. That works. Alternately with a Lee Drive Key slug peening over the drive key before adding glue may provide enough hold.

Just something else to tinker with!

Longbow

[longbow]

Okay... here is a pic of 3 Lee 7/8 oz. Drive Key slugs with moulded glue tail wad.

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Certainly not in the same league as Cap'n Morgan's work by any means! However, I have had some good success with this same idea using both solid slugs and Foster style slugs in the past and will be testing several more if and when it stops snowing!

The added glue tail wad is the same diameter (a few thou smaller actually) than the base of the slug so will be paper patched to fit the shotcup. I have some straight sided slugs I've done this with as well so they are same diameter base to nose and get two wraps of paper just like a big 'ol PP boolit to ensure nice snug fit into shotcups in the bore.

I'll see how this works out... if it ever stops snowing!

Longbow

[RogerDat]

That glue tail wad seems easily repeatable without special equipment. I wonder if the wad jcren describes could be 3D printed for the Lee Key Drive slugs? Wouldn't that essentially be a disk with a raised center disk and a slot? Might be able to mold the original from hot melt glue injected into a slug base with some sort of release agent.

3D printers are petty cool but complex shapes start to drive cost (time) up and often need manual touch up. The equipment and tools are not readily available to the average reloader. If a simple shape that worked could be found then bulk printing at reasonable cost might be possible. The CPVC process is probably in the reach of most reloaders. One could possibly even do them in a block holding the mold tube and using a cold steel bar to press the excess off of each one to speed up production. Although not sure how high volume shotgun slug production needs to be.

[Hogtamer]

Here it is, just needs to be made of plastic from the ridge up. Can a printer do this? (click to enlarge)
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[Hogtamer]

Here it is, just needs to be made from plastic from the ridge up. Can a printer do this?

[uncle dino]

I've never seen a lee key drive slug mold in person.. Is the base pin removable? Now that we can get base wads from the Russians, it may be easier to make a base pin to match the Russian wads. D

[longbow]

Yes, the hb pin is removable. The old style were riveted on place but the new style have a screw. Problem is the drive key... the hb pin has a slit milled in it so a new hb pin would be needed. Not only without a slot but with a shape to suit the Russian tail wads.

That's exactly what I am wanting to do with my push out slug mould... Just need some Russian tail wads to check the spigot fit.

The hot melt glue tail wads do work but it's hard to get a nice clean shape with no flashing and no air bubbles.

3D printing might work if you can print a tough plastic. The plastics I have seen are fairly brittle and the layers are not well bonded. Plus it's slow.

Injection moulding or machining from rod would be much quicker but beyond the abilities and tooling of most home tinkerers.

Hot melt glue is readily accessible and affordable but hard to get perfect tail wads. I'm working on it though!

Longbow

[Cap'n Morgan]

Hogtamer;

A 3-D printer can do things not possible with ordinary injection molding, as the shapes are build up one small layer at the time. This means that you can have internal cavities in the part itself (like a hollow sphere) which would be impossible to make with traditional molding. But the real force in 3-D printing is the ability to test and modify designs as you go. Once the design has been found to work it's time for an injection mold.

I have no experience with hot glue, but for a simple, thick walled shape - like a Key Drive wad - it should certainly be possible to make your own low-pressure molding machine and make wads from polypropylene or polyethylene. Before I had access to injection molding I planned on doing just that - even bought a small deep fryer for melting used wads from the shooting range. The wads melted just fine, but because of the high viscosity of melted PP or PE, some sort of pressure thingamabob doohickey is needed for filling the mold. (in "real" molding machines the plastics flows like water due to the extremely high pressure)

Anyway, a simple, homemade molding machine, perhaps based on an old reloading press to provide the pressure, should be doable. Any takers...?

[longbow]

Cap'n Morgan has hit on something there!

My biggest problem is air bubbles and shrinkage with the hot melt glue. Using an old press or sizer as a piston pump should provide enough "oomph" to squirt melted glue (or plastic) into a form, though it would have to be vented. The problem there is keeping that glue or plastic melted on its way to the form.

Possibly just using a hot melt glue gun connected to the form would work reasonably ~ remove the nozzle and connect a length of small pipe or tubing to the form. You'd still have to take care of ejection of the finished wad/slug somehow. I do it manually just pushing the completed slug out of the form but nothing is totally enclosed or sealed... hence some of the inconsistencies.

Something to ponder a bit for sure.

[Hogtamer]

Fact is stranger than fiction! At our men's Bible study class this morning a guy was there I haven't seen in several years was there. He had moved away with work and ready to come home back to the company he was with. What biz you ask???? Yes, plastic injection molding! Of course showed him this thread started only yesterday....no problem. Yes, printer is way to go initially, this would be pretty easy. Signs and wonders. So I've got a connection and will be pursuing this in time. Signs and wonders I say!

[centershot]

Y'know guys, if the people at Lee were on top of things, they'd market a .735" o.d. wad to fit their own mold! The Drive-Key Slug has been out long enough that we know it's accuracy isn't a sure thing with commercial shot-shell wads. The only thing missing here is a wad that reliably engages the drive key AND the rifling! If they didn't want to set up their own shop, they could easily contract it to someone, there's lots of injection molding shops that would love to have more work!

[BigMrTong]

In the interest of not trimming petals and using 20g wads which I found stuck sometimes and gave me a flyer, I also created an STL wad in 3D and printed it for the lee Slug
I printed this round snap in one, which I guess is similar but lighter than the hot melt glue version above.

214579

It worked and gave me the same accuracy as a decent 20g Carded slug that didn't stick id I snapped and glued the printed wad in the base of the Lee slug. I tried a not attached version and the accuracy was slightly less. I then came up with this finned version when again was a attached snap fit, but had finns.

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This was a slightly better grouping, so I stuck with this design for now. It's easy to print and pop in the bottom of my cast slugs. (I use the 1oz but plan on trying it with the smaller version)

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I also do it for my 10g slugs, although they work better with the standard cylindrical design.

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[uncle dino]

BMT. That is sweet! Good job..d

[Hogtamer]

I love this place! Tong, did you try that in a rifled gun? I bet the 7/8 will do better too.

[BigMrTong]

No i’m In the UK and we don’t have many rifled shotguns. They are classed as a full rifle here, and not a shotgun.

They work the best for me in cylinder bore guns. I tried an improved cylinder, the group opened up quite a lot.

I have heard the 7/8 is better and I can try a longer set of fins using the same fins. I’ll get one on order.

[Hogtamer]

A couple other questions...how does the material you are using hold up at firing and do the wads stay with the slug to the target? Again, really nice work.

[longbow]

Now that is pretty slick! Good thinking and good work!

What plastic are you using?

What diameter is the tail wad?

The innovation around here is amazing!

[Markopolo]

I am TOTALLY subscribed to this thread of thinkers and tinker's... I love to see good collaboration!!!

[BigMrTong]

A couple other questions...how does the material you are using hold up at firing and do the wads stay with the slug to the target? Again, really nice work.

It holds up fine. I had to make the bottom of the fins wide as you can see, as they were cutting into the base of the wad I was using. They leave an imprint now, but always leave the main wad and stay with the slug on its trip to the target. I use them for target shotgun at 25meters. They snap in the bottom of the keydrive, but I do put a large blob of super glue in the slot.

The round one was no better but no worse that the 2 x 20g Wads I was using. The fins are a little bit better. If I don't click then in and glue them they are both slightly worse.

This was my load ....
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Now that is pretty slick! Good thinking and good work!

What plastic are you using?

What diameter is the tail wad?

The innovation around here is amazing!

I printed them in PLA. Its hard but flexible. I tried ABS but this was too hard and brittle, although I accept some of this could be layer separation. I also tried PETG which was perfect, but a pain to print and slower / more pricey, so I went back to PLA as its fine for me.

Ill measure size I cant remember, but I made them a few thou smaller than the slug as I didn't want to add binding / friction or anything else as the slug leaves the Sabot Wad if you follow.

Ill keep trying different ones as I think of them, its easy to make the STL and print a few off to try.

I have found so far the Red MEC wads to be the best ..

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[longbow]

Those will be nicer and much more consistent than my hot melt glue tail wads for sure. How long do they take to print?

I think I'd be looking for a little larger than the skirt of the slug as the Lee slugs have too much taper (in my opinion)... way more than the taper in the wad petals. I've had pretty good results using straight sided slugs from my push out moulds paper patched up to a proper fit in the wad/bore.

Good stuff. I'll be looking forward to more info and range reports.

I'm hoping to be posting some results of my own as it has been far too long but local weather is the latest hold up. We had a big snow dump on Saturday then the temperature dropped to -12 C (about 10 F). I'm getting a bit wimpy in my old age but -12 with a wind is more than I like to put up with these days. I've shot in -15 but the sun was out and no wind.

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

About 3 hours for a batch of 50

[rsrocket1]

Have you tried the Claybuster Windjammer or Lightning wads? The 8 petal wads are thin and a perfect fit between the slug and a Gun Club hull. I shoot these through an IC choked gun so there is zero fouling but I've heard of some people complaining about Claybuster wads causing plastic fouling, not me.

https://images3.imgbox.com/4a/ab/NJvSIVJK_o.jpg

https://images3.imgbox.com/b8/67/baLvU5KO_o.jpg

[AquaBallistic]

I would love a copy of that file to play with if you're prepared to share. A similar exercise is on my (far too long) list and it sounds like you have a working solution already. There's nothing like this that I've seen available to Australia.

Cheers,
Mark.

[Ranch Dog]

Love your work BBT!

Been chasing accuracy issues with Lee slugs in my Marlin 512, just can get the MOA performance good enough for a nilgai hunt I was drawn for that is slug gun only.

It's not the Marlin, Lightfield Hybrid Elite's are very accurate with 5-shot groups running 2 MOA out to 100 yards. I haven't shot the rifle beyond that range.

After today's session I was thinking, this slug needs a finned sabot like the Lightfield. Searched for a 3D "thing" and here I'm.

Really scratching my head with the Lee, been chasing my tail for years. I have about $500 worth of components I've collected over half a dozen years and I've not found anything that will produce acceptable 100 yards accuracy, accurancy on par with the current factory offerings. Kind of wondering if I'm chasing a unicorn.

[Bob9863]

I hear you on that, for the money I've spent trying to create economical slugs at home, I could have bought about 300 factory slugs that shoot **** well out of my gun.

But it's playing with them that's fun.

[longbow]

Ranch Dog:

Haven't seen you here in a while!

While I can't help with rifled gun accuracy I will share what seems to be helping my smoothbore accuracy with Lee slugs. Now, this will depend on wads used too. I'm currently using Winchester 1 oz. and 1 1/4 oz. wads which both have fairly thin petals and not a lot of taper. I noticed that the Lee slugs have a lot of taper! As in a lot! My Lee 1 oz. slug has 0.018" taper between nose and base, the 7/8 oz. has 0.020" taper between nose and base. The wads run about 0.006" to 0.008" (so 0.012" to 0.018" in diameter) over the full length of the petal so that means at the slug length the slug has about twice the taper the wad petals do so tight at the nose and loose at the base in the shotcup.

I decided to make a sizer to take the taper out of the lee slugs then paper patch back up to snug fit. So far that has improved accuracy dramatically even though the slugs have no taper now.

Alternately Randy Buchanan posted the taper on his Claybuster WAA clone wads and it pretty much matches the taper on the Lee slugs and Lyman sabot slugs:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?369325-Does-anyone-have-a-Lyman-Sabot-Slug-they-can-send-me

Not sure what components you've tried but you should take a look at wad petal taper then try to find something that matches the Lee slug taper. That may help... or maybe not but worth a check and try anyway.

Slug shooting... it is a challenge!

Good luck!

Longbow

[BigMrTong]

Yes I have spent a lot of time on this and could have just bought them .. however it's fun to do the testing and dev.

I updated my load slightly and got a lot better results.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?364546-Improvement-of-my-Good-1oz-Lee-Slug-Load

The thing about the Lee slugs, is any slight change in Hull wad, filler crimnp etc, makes a massive difference, and also the shotgun used.

[Ranch Dog]

Hate to step off the Custom wad topic but in response to the question, here is what I've whittled my components down to from the huge inventory I have.

Cheddite 3" hull Lee 1-ounce slug One BP 20-Gauge Nitro Card between the slug and wad cup Federal 12S3 Column Wad with the petals trimmed to the aft edge of the slug's ogive. BPGS Gas Seal 25 to 26-grains of Hodgdon's International
From my Marlin 512, I've seen great accuracy out to 50-yards. Velocity has been 1615 FPS with 25-grains and 1630 FPS with the 26-grains.

Here is a target from two days ago, shot at 50 yards. It is a bit busy, but I adjusted the zero from the previous days shooting and went back to 2 3/4" shell to test my theory that they suck in a 3" chamber.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/12S3/12S3_260_International_275_vs_300.jpg

I've been messing with this work in short bursts for five to six years. I haven't done a lot of reading or watching up to this year because I wanted just to walk through and determine what works and what doesn't on my own. Here is my list of what has delivered my best results: Hull length matches chamber length, don't create freebore with a shorter hull. The column wad petals are not to be longer than the start of the ogive radius of the slug. Trim them if needed. The nose of the slug must completely open the star crimp before the leading edge of the petals encounters the star. A 16 or 20 gauge card wad is needed between the slug and the column wad cup. Use a six-star crimp vs. an eight. Index the center of a petal with the fold of star crimp.
As a note, I've been able to recover 100% of the column wads I've shot off my range. I note every wad reference it's shot with a survey flag so I can see the relationship of the shot against it impact at the target. With the trimmed Federal petals, I have not had a single petal erode off and the bore/groove grip has been perfect.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/512/reloading/12S3/12S3_trimmed.jpg

I shot at 75-yards yesterday and the good groups I've been shooting went to heck. Fired 12 more rounds yesterday afternoon. Punched three through the bullseye at 50 yards. Shot nine at 75 -yards, only two hit the target backing, not the target. Just kill me :|

With the little bit more distance, the three power scope let me see some of the components separate in flight. I saw the slug on the final shot. It became unstable passing the 50-yard berm; its flight became an ever-increasing helical that disappeared in the thick brush surrounding the berm.

I'm kidding myself in thinking that any amount of load work can cure the poor design relationship of the center of lift/pressure being aft of the center of gravity.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/lee_designs/slugs/images/3828_cl_vs_cg.jpg

This is simply a no/no in cast bullet design. It is said that the 7/8 ounce slug shoots better, but I'm not going to mess with it either as it suffers the same ill. What a rabbit hole. I do think all this could be corrected with a replacement drive key pin rather than a totally new mold design. I've got my thoughts on an improved pin.

Deer season opened this morning and my nilgai hunt, a public draw hunt that requires slug guns, is in two weeks. I think I will just shoot the Lightfields I have and drop my work with the Lee slugs. NOE is going to be offering a Lyman shuttcock clone which I will have in a week or two, to late for the nilgai hunt. I'm also thinking about going to a full bore projectile, the Accurate 73-470S. I drew it up and it looks like it will be a very stable bullet to me, my calculation is that it remains stable down to 65 FPS with the Marlin's 1:28 twist.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Casting/accurate/accurate_73-470S.jpg

[Ranch Dog]

If anyone is interested, here is where I documented my recent work with the Lee slugs.

https://www.lee-loader.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=2578

[longbow]

That wad certainly looks good!

From what Randy says the Federal wad petal taper pretty much matches the Lee and Lyman slug tapers which are pretty close. It looks like you have even bearing or at least the petals squish to give even bearing over the slug length.

It would be interesting to see BigMrTong's modified slug shot from rifled gun. That added fin length should correct the issues you found with center of pressure and CG. It is a bit surprising that Lee didn't pick up on that and extend the skirt or change geometry to fix that.

There is another thread where the fellow used an epoxy to fill the "key" slot to turn the Lee slugs into a more traditional HB Foster style and he seems to be doing pretty well with it. By removing the "key" weight should shift towards the nose. BigMrTong's approach should accomplish the same thing by extending the tail with light material.

Longbow

[Ranch Dog]

I went off the deep end and bought the Accurate 73-470S.

[W.R.Buchanan]

RD: Al's got the Lyman Slug Moulds in 2 and 4 cav in stock right now... mine shipped yesterday. I should have it Monday. 11/5.

I got some of those blue Claybuster wads and the way they are made the base of the shot cup has a raised center portion that should fit in the base of the Lyman Slug. It is the exact opposite of the regular Claybuster WAA12 clone which has a ring at the base of the shot cup.

Since the base of the skirt of the slug is what gets pushed during launch I think the intention was to keep the skirt as close to the centerline of the bore as possible by not letting it wobble while moving down the barrel.

You are running 1600ish fps? you might try toning that down to around 1300 fps and see if the accuracy doesn't improve. AS far as knock down you got 59.6 with 1oz slugs at 1300 fps as opposed to 84! with 1 1/8 oz slugs at 1600 fps. Since a .458 WM is only 70 with a 500 gr boolit at 2150 fps I think you'd have more than enough HP for a Nilgai.

I shot this group at 50 yards at Front Sight last week with Federal Hydra Shok 1 oz slugs,,, "Off hand." It is 2x3 and there's probably more there off a rest. We didn't shoot farther so I don't know if the slugs went stupid after that.

The only way I see getting past this is with something that is seriously drag stabilized or a rifled barrel.

I thought you were using your Enfield for this hunt?

Randy

[Ranch Dog]

RD: Al's got the Lyman Slug Moulds in 2 and 4 cav in stock right now... mine shipped yesterday. I should have it Monday. 11/5.
I talked to Al yesterday afternoon, and he said that my mold is enroute as well. It might be close.


I got some of those blue Claybuster wads and the way they are made the base of the shot cup has a raised center portion that should fit in the base of the Lyman Slug. It is the exact opposite of the regular Claybuster WAA12 clone which has a ring at the base of the shot cup.

Since the base of the skirt of the slug is what gets pushed during launch I think the intention was to keep the skirt as close to the centerline of the bore as possible by not letting it wobble while moving down the barrel.

The problem I had with the Claybuster wads I have is that both the compression strut and the petals failed (trimmed and untrimmed). I went back out to take a picture of my collection of shot column wads but, sure enough, I had sent them on there way with Tuesday trash pickup. I probably will start from scratch with the NOE 680-500-FN and work back through all my powders and column wads to see what is what. I do think the shuttlecock design is better suited for life with untrimmed petals.


You are running 1600ish fps? you might try toning that down to around 1300 fps and see if the accuracy doesn't improve. AS far as knock down you got 59.6 with 1oz slugs at 1300 fps as opposed to 84! with 1 1/8 oz slugs at 1600 fps. Since a .458 WM is only 70 with a 500 gr boolit at 2150 fps I think you'd have more than enough HP for a Nilgai.
What I did with my available powders is look through the various slug reloading sources I have and find a min and max for each powder and work from there. International's velocity surprized me at the minimum start load plus with the first shot group the MOA performance was way beyond that delivered with Clays, HS-6, Unique, or Universal. It is also the cleanest burning of the group, a white patch through the bore is white. I've had it sitting on the shelf, trying to figure out what to do with it as it was sent to me in error when I ordered Clays. It is a scary powder with metallic reloading and the only use I have found for it is with the 25 Auto.


I shot this group at 50 yards at Front Sight last week with Federal Hydra Shok 1 oz slugs,,, "Off hand." It is 2x3 and there's probably more there off a rest. We didn't shoot farther so I don't know if the slugs went stupid after that.

The only way I see getting past this is with something that is seriously drag stabilized or a rifled barrel.
That is good shooting. I have a smooth bore barrel with rifle sights for my Mossberg 500, it is a New Haven 600 (discount store version), and once I get a slug figured out will see how it shoots from the smooth bore.

I would also like to get to the point that I could shoot the Lee .69" round ball against their one-ounce slug through my rifle barrel. I'm curious about that based on my experience with round ball loads in centerfire rifles. When it gets to the math, as it is spinning from the rifling twist, it should be stable. CG is equal to CL. Place the sprue cut at the base, and CG moves ever so slightly behind CL.

I'm a Front Sight guy, just the pistol stuff, but would like to do the shotgun. As a retired guy with travel benefits, the airline travel isn't that big a deal but with the firearm in the belly of the airliner it is. I've bought tickets to follow it. I've started training locally because, with this group, reloaded ammunition is acceptable.


I thought you were using your Enfield for this hunt?
I was drawn for a whitetail/nilgai hunt, and the unit is small compared to the others that are hunted in the Lower Rio Grande Valley system. Because of the whitetail deer hunting and the size of the property (1160 huntable acres), there is some kind of rule in the National Wildlife Refuge code that requires shotguns with slugs or muzzleloaders be used. Whatever controls it is screwy as the Youth hunts can use centerfire rifles. After the whitetail season, the hunts become an "exotic/invasive species" hunt with centerfire rifles allowed. The good thing about this hunt is in that a slug gun is required, a lot of hunters here in South Texas don't apply as the average nimrod doesn't even know what that means.

I was also drawn for the "exotic" hunt in February, so I plan to hunt with the SMLE. The 45-70 if it is bace from Robert Bose, he is working on a scout scope base for the barrel. If it isn't done in time I will use my SMLE Scout that he built. I figure more nilgai have been taken with the 303 British than any other cartridge so why not. Here are those rifles for those that might be curious.

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/SMLE%20Gibbs/images/gibbs_03.jpg

https://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/Firearms/SMLE%20%234MI/images/SMLE_scout_02.jpg

I do have five-shot, flush magazines on the way from UK for this rifle.

[Ranch Dog]

OK, now I've totally derailed this OP topic, my sincere apologies.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve hunted three different NWR’s . And gun regs were different each place . In MD at the Blackwater during gun season it’s ML , slug gun or 00 Buck . In VA at Chincoteague depends on the area you draw . And in MT at the CM Russell I’m pretty sure state regs were what they went by but that wasn’t a draw of any kind .