Load Master is better than Dillon [Archive]

Jerry11826

08-31-2008, 08:49 AM

This is a post I made on the Glock Talk site - It was the last in about 47 replies conerning the Dillon equipment I was / am trying to sell - It sure started a furball - I thought it might be some fun here also - I put my money where my mouth is - If you want to but some Dillon Equipment for what I think are give away prices send me a PM. Have fun - Jerry

This thread has become a discussion of Lee Load Master Vs. Dillon equipment. I was just trying to sell some stuff. Why don't we end this? I appreceiate all the responses.

Since I started this, maybe I can have the last word.

Dillon is great equipment - I bought my first Dillon on their invoice #374. dated 2/29/1984. (Kept the invoice inside the manual) It is the 450 I am trying to sell. It came with the .45 ACP conversion and I ordered and additional .38 Spec conversion. The total invoice, shipped COD was $206.00. Guys, that means I have been using Dillon equipment for 28 years. During that period that machine or in combination the other two Dillon presses I have / had (sold the 550) have reloaded 500 to 1,000 rounds per month. Do the math - that is at least 168,000 rounds. I know a little something about the Dillon equipment I have owned. I doubt there are many members of this forum - that can document their experience back further than I.

I have only broken one part, the plastic primer magazine follower rod and that was my fault. I did wear out the wave bushings on the SDB. Dillon did not only send me two sets of replacement bushings, a complete new style primer feed assembly, but I asked for and received a replacement auto index assembly - all for free. Now is that good service or what!

All of my Dillon machines have had occasional primer mis-feeds. Either up-side-down primers or the dreaded primer in the cup sideways. I say dreaded, because that meant getting out the hex wrenches to loosen the primer feed to clear the jam. I don't think I am alone. A couple of years ago Dillon began offering a set of hex wrenches that came with a bracket that mounts to the press. Their claim - "No more hunting for the right wrench". Why do you think Dillon is doing that?

However, unless you have tried to load 500 rounds per month on a single stage press, as I was doing before I bought the Dillon - you cannot understand the pleasure I had in getting a loaded round every time I pulled the handle. Clearing the occasional primer jam was nothing compared to the production increase afforded by my Dillon equipment. Up-side-down primers were / are a non-event. Didn't even notice them until I was boxing the ammo to take to the range.

If I were going to use Dillon equipment, knowing what I know now - I would have purchased only the SDB and the RF 100 primer filler. With this setup I can load nearly as fast as with the Lee and you get that great Dillon warranty and customer service.

Now that I have stated the above, the Lee Load Master - in my experience - only about 2,000 rounds - is not only significantly faster than the Dillon equipment - it is less subject to primer feed problems and best of all is much less expensive! It is not just a better reloader for the money - but better reloader period.

Thanks to all that responded - if you want to purcase any of my remaining equipment please contact me soon - as it will all be going to E-Bay.

Thanks,

Jerry

shotman

08-31-2008, 11:38 AM

since Lee is here now maybe they will take nots on the problems that the Load master has i have had one since they came out . Everyone that has one will agree that they are, for the most part a good unit. The primer feed is a problem and the shell feed is a problem. I got the boolet feeder and then had to buy ALL new dies because the seat die is different> It will not feed cast tumble lube boolets i sold it. The dillon 650 is a good unit but is a pain to change cal. The prices for cal change is way out of range, the pins are a pain. I the pins were steel [i did make a 3 side steel that works good] you can remove them with a magnet[ would help when you drop one] The Load Master is not strong enough to load rifle ammo. But that is why i have 4 presses shotman

dromia

08-31-2008, 01:25 PM

Glad your happy with your Lee.

I'm a Hornady L-n-L AP person myself after dire sales service from Dillon.

I'm now going to withdraw and bunker down deep. :Fire:

KYCaster

09-01-2008, 07:44 PM

I predict you'll soon be cursing the Lee primer feed.

Jerry

Shiloh

09-01-2008, 09:12 PM

Dillon is the only progressive for me. It has served me well for years.

Customer service has been nothing short of outstanding. When properly adjusted, it works smoothly and flawlessly.
I clean the primer bar and around its track of spent primer residue every 600-700 rounds.
After that it's good to go again for trouble free production of ammo.

Shiloh

Kraschenbirn

09-01-2008, 09:22 PM

Jerry...

Don't have the original invoice on my first Dillon (a 450 like yours) but it's about the same vintage as yours (mid '84) and still bolted to my reloading bench, right between my SBD and my Bonanza "68" single-stage. For the first dozen years, it averaged around 15,000 rounds per year (used to run through 10,000/yr just for IHMSA and NRA sillywhets). Wore out a primer feed and broke a couple of small parts; all of which were replaced by Dillon without question. These days, since I've pretty much given up competition shooting, it mostly stays set up for .44 Spl 'cause I only have .45 ACP and .38/.357 die sets for my SDB.

Bill

Marc2

09-01-2008, 11:28 PM

Have a Dillon 650 from 1999. Rebuilt in 2004 for the cost of shipping to Dillon. Great machine. Also own several Lee presses that have given good service through the years. Would like to see Lee make a version of the Pro 1000 on the Classic Turret frame and include four stations.

Marc

shotman

09-02-2008, 06:28 AM

there was post about { I think the Lee turret] of squareing the primer feeder that type primer feed looks to be better than the one used on the Load Master Is it? shotman

Lloyd Smale

09-02-2008, 07:26 AM

I had both a load master and a pro 1000. I dont know how many thousand cuss words came out of my mouth operating those to presses but id be it about equals the ammont of good ammo i got out of them. If i couldnt afford a dillon or horndady progressive id buy a good turent press and load with it before id EVER consider a lee progressive again. All i can say is if you think the primer feed is better on a lee you havent loaded any serious ammont of ammo yet. Wait and tell me what you think after its loaded 10000 rounds. Ive got 5 square deals and a 550 and a couple of my square deals have round counts that are will into 5 figures and if i really had to make an honest guess it well could be 6 figures. I hear all the time people on this forum and others say the lees are great and just as good as a dillon or horn. What i find is theses are people thats idea of cranking out a ton of ammo is making two boxes to shoot tomamarow and then maybe do it again next week or month. Maybe that cheap lee crap will work for someone like that. But if your idea if shooting brings your round count up to 500 rounds a week or more good luck with one of those *** presses.

StrawHat

09-02-2008, 08:56 AM

I, too, have a 450 from the early 80's.

It has kept me in 38 Special ammo through 12 years of very active PPC compettiton. 1000-2000 rounds per week. Plus it reloaded for me as the assistant range officer when I was in Law Enforcement.

I have been tempted to change to a 550 but why mess with success. My brother has a Square Deal in various calibers and likes them. I'll stay with the 450.

Shiloh

09-02-2008, 09:40 AM

Jerry11826

09-02-2008, 12:57 PM

Lloyd, Shiloh - Now your getting into it. On another forum, one guy sent me several PMs that were just short of threats! - How can anyone get so "worked up" about another persons opinion of a reloading tool - What happened - did the Lee delivery truck back into your recently restored GTO.

All I said was, Dillon is great equipment, that I used for many years with pleasue - but after tryng the Lee, I liked the Lee better and am trying to sell the Dillon.

Kraschenbirn, you said you had an SDB, did you like your SDB - I liked mine. I thought it was great -I suggested on another forum that a man that shoots straight walled pistol cases only shoud definately consider the SDB over the 550. This caused an immediate respose. Many respondents suggested anyone that could rate an SDB over a 550 had to be an idiot, communist or worse - "Only a fool would prefer an SDB over a 550".

Yea, well - is this a great country or what?

Jerry

Cayoot

09-02-2008, 05:57 PM

I reloaded thousands of rounds per year from 1979 to 1989 on an RCBS Jr single stage press. Then I found an ad where Lee was selling factory re-built Turrent Presses for about $45 (IIRC).

That one press changed my reloading life! I used it for 7 years. I can't even begin to guess how many .38 rounds and .45 acp rounds I cranked out (I was heavy into Bullseye competition then).

Then one day I bought a Hornady LNL Progressive. This was as big of a change in my reloading life as when I switched to the Lee Turrent.

Well, to make a long story short, I have given a Lee turrent to each of my 2 sons.

On my reloading bench now sits 2 Hornady LNL APs (one set up for large primers and the other for small primers), one RCBS Turrent press (for experimenting on different loadings) and, finally, my original RCBS Jr (that I purchased when I was a spry, 17 years old).

That old Jr is as good as the day I purchased it, but now it is regulated to pulling bullets.

I've tried Dillion, it is a good machine, but I'll take the Hornady over anything else.

Kraschenbirn

09-02-2008, 10:00 PM

Kraschenbirn, you said you had an SDB, did you like your SDB - I liked mine....

STILL like it...A LOT!! Load all my bulk quantity .38s and .45 ACPs on the SDB and my .44s on the 450. I use one of my single-stages for load development (small quantities!) and then switch to one of the Dillons to load up a working supply.

Bill

DLCTEX

09-02-2008, 11:29 PM

I have never used a Dillon, but my Loadmaster has many more than 10,000 rounds on it and is still cranking them out. It took some tinkering to get it (and me ) going to my satisfaction, but I bought it used from an individual who had dropped it and thought it was ruined because he could not get it working again. In my last run of 500 rounds, the only problem was caused by me going to sleep and letting the powder run dry. I do have a high mechanical aptitude (tested) and am able to make things work that others can't, but I think anyone can make it work if they follow the directions in Lee's videos and manuals. There are many really great ideas found on Lee equipment, and many of them are amazingly simple. DALE

DaveInFloweryBranchGA

09-03-2008, 03:51 PM

With all those videos and stuff out nowadays, there's plenty of information on how to setup a Loadmaster and a body ought to be able to get one running pretty smoothly fairly quickly I'm thinking. I've been looking to pick one up cheap from some angry customer and turn it into a .45ACP ammo generating machine.

Regards,

Dave

Nick10Ring

09-03-2008, 09:24 PM

StrawHat:
Where did you shoot your PPC matches? I shot PPC for about 21 years and made the Governor's 20 for 20 years. Now I'm into rifle(high power)..I shoot Garands and an AR(Bushmaster). I used to belong to the OPCPA. I also use Dillons, I have 2 550's and loaded thousand of .38 wadcutters on the older one.

Nick10Ring

Ranch Dog

09-04-2008, 12:58 AM

I had a friend buy me a complete Loadmaster with all the bells and whistles if I would keep him in ammo (all at his expense). Heck of a deal. He shot the hell out of his 45LC for about a year and then lost interest. So I now have this nice press that cranks out my 45 ACP stuff. I've been busy with my mold business for two years now and the pistols have been off to the side but I'm casting bullets for them and getting ready to put it back to work.

My experience has been about like Dale's but I didn't look at any of the videos as they didn't have them at the time. It took a little thinking (which I enjoyed) but it ended up working great. I kind of lost interest in the press as there isn't much "reloading" to it. You are more of a tube filler, handle puller, and ammo stacker. My daughter actually made most of the ammo for the fellow.... pull, push... not much to it. The bench must be securely attached to something as it will walk!

Ranch Dog

09-04-2008, 12:54 PM

Geeze guys, these posts always get the wheels turning in my head and ends up generating a never ending list of "to do's"!

I've been eyeballing that press as I go about my normal work thinking that I should be using it to do my 444 Marlin work as everything is set in stone as far as my load development is concerned with my TLC432-265-RF and TLC432-300-RF. I need to finish up my pressure testing charts but my personal loads were done years ago now. You know, each year box up a hundred of each or so. Why not do it on the Loadmaster. Well I tried it, just an initial test, and it shucks those 444 cases like it was made for it. I had to use a longer bolt on the case feed tube assembly but the 4 tubes hold 32 cases. I've already used the bullet feeding tubes with both of these bullets and the 44 so I don't anticipate any problems with bullet feed. I do use Liquid Alox but my stored bullets are coated with mica and are slicker than snot. I will let you know how it goes in a couple of weeks!

Hmmm, shooters always bugging me as to why I don't offer loaded ammo. May be I should check into the license requirements!

I will need to order the Universal Charging Die so that I can switch from the Pro Auto Disk to the Perfect Powder Measure as even the double disk cannot drop the appropriate charge for this case. VTDW gave me his PPM so I have one that can stay mounted on the LM.

Shame on you guys, always creating another project!

timtonya

06-27-2012, 08:47 AM

Seriously? ? The loadmaster better than a dillon?? Are you SERIOUS???? I have one and im tired of tinkering with it all of the time. Im wanting a XL650 next year and I only load 100-200 rounds of 40 S&W and 45ACP. And I wont be buying the casefeeder. I don't care about speed or numbers. I want a press that will load and not waste my time. And the conversions aren't much more than the Hornady LnL ap. Especially if hounding buy the powder measure. Just loosen it and move it to the next toolhead. With the Hornady, you still have to buy the bushings us the casefeed components that dillon provides with the conversion kits. I honestly don't care how much its gonna cost next year to buy a dillon xl650.

r1kk1

06-27-2012, 08:55 AM

Here we go agin.

r1kk1

BoolitSchuuter

06-27-2012, 09:37 AM

WOW!! Talk about raising the dead!!! This thread died in 2008. :shock: :shock:

jmorris

06-27-2012, 09:54 AM

I don't know what to say, I'm sitting here shaking my head like I do when I see a kid with metal stuck all over their face or covered in tatoos.

UNIQUEDOT

06-27-2012, 11:33 AM

Seriously? ? The loadmaster better than a dillon?? Are you SERIOUS?

Jerry was serious back in 08 and he still feels the same way today. I know because i recently asked him, but of course the Dillons he had were the 450, 550, and SDB's.

sparky45

06-27-2012, 11:53 AM

I've owned both Loadmaster(2 of them) and Dillon (one 650xl), there is a comparison between the two, but it isn't favorable to the Loadmaster. Now, if you want to hand prime every case prior to running them through the Loadmaster, it will load good if not excellent ammo. But for workmanship, utility, and worry free reloading, Dillon is a much better choice.

44Vaquero

06-27-2012, 12:28 PM

UNIQUEDOT

06-27-2012, 01:46 PM

Ok, I was not going to say anything this time but I am going to any way. I do not understand how people have problems with the Load Master priming system. I have been running mine for over 20 years and I can count on one hand the number of primer related issues experienced. Keep it clean, de-burr the plastic, keep it full and pay attention and you are home free.

I will say this though: The Dillion vs Lee thing is like comparing Chevy's to BMW's. They both do the same thing only one is more comfortable.

I've not had many problems with mine either. My problems occurred only with .380, but they went away before i figured out the cause. I think most people that can't run the press have problems in that they can't comprehend everything the contraption is doing at once and due to the fact they never get everything properly adjusted. I actually find it quite simple, but the best description i have for the press is contraption. Functions like something from the acme co.... the wyle e. coyote acme. I've really grown to like mine alot and i actually like the priming system on the press.

rasto

06-27-2012, 01:53 PM

DO not compare incomparable. At least the price.
I am the Loadmaster owner and during 3 years I was swearing a lot.
The biggest problem is well known priming, the other one is indexing and depriming (pulled rod out of the die, broken pin ...).
The main problem cause field collected brass especially S&B nontox cases with narrow primer pocket !
Oh well, you need to be handy to upgrade all issues otherwise you are damned.

Moonie

06-27-2012, 01:54 PM

I keep mine spotless and have tried all of the newer replacement priming pieces, I've had several primer explosions, I will NOT prime on this press any longer. Don't get me wrong, I love the press, I use it for just about everything. I had a Pro1000 for years and had no issues keeping it running properly. I'm happy to hand prime everything to keep me from having more explosions.

UNIQUEDOT

06-27-2012, 02:16 PM

I've had several primer explosions

Several? really? there has to be a reason for this. If it were me i would want to know why. I've never had that happen on any press. It happened once with a lee loader and it scared the bejeebers outta me...that was enough to insure it never happened again.

rasto

06-27-2012, 02:31 PM

When you are pressing a primer into a primer pocket and it doesn't fit and start to compress it askew.
I have had few as well therefore I intalled camera to have it under control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a46yPEIT5SM&list=UUMI2Wn9rlMda9tSL8ImZdFw&index=1&feature=plcp

Cowboy T

06-27-2012, 04:36 PM

Oh...puh-leeze, people! What's with this fanboi-ism I keep seeing? All this man Jerry did was state his experience. He didn't shoot your dog. He didn't have sex with your wife. He simply sold one of his presses four years ago.

Speaking of which...

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg337/scaled.php?server=337&filename=necroposting.jpg&res=landing

Plate plinker

06-27-2012, 05:00 PM

1050. Get'em done! :redneck:

Crawdaddy

06-27-2012, 05:27 PM

Yikes! I have a load master that has been setting in an old tool box for years. I hated it! Primer feed issues, indexing issues, broken parts, powder charge issues. I will never use it again. Lee customer service was great, any time I had a broken part it was replaced free of charge, but it was too much of a hassle.

Conversely, I have a LoadAll for shotgun sells that I love. I also have a Lee single stage press and many lee dies that are great too.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Crash_Corrigan

06-27-2012, 05:46 PM

I ran a Loadmaster for two years. In '94 I got tired of paying for factory ammo and I got into reloading and casting. My first press was the Loadmaster. It took me a week of cussing and fiddling but with all the bells and whistles it started out cranking some decent ammo pretty fast.

I had issues with the primer feeding etc and I gave up early on. In the first week I just went to hand priming my cases and then running them through the loadmaster.

With the case feeder tubes loades and the bullet feeder tubes loaded I ran thru the cast boolits I had on hand pretty fast.

It was a great maching but I never could get the priming thing going right. I replaced everything, tried everthing and got tired of having to stop everything because I had no primers in cases after the powder and boolits had been put into place.

I am an expert on cleaning out the spilled powder on, in and around a Loadmaster.

Finally a friend of mine with too much money and not much ambition gave me all his Dillon reloading stuff and dies etc and just asked me to make some 454 Casull rounds for him from time to time.

I ended up with a 550B and a pair of Square Deal presses. There a learning curve on both of these but I mastered them and I have long ago tossed the Loadmaster.

I shoot mostly 9 MM and .45 ACP on steel reactive targets and lot of BPCR. I recently got into shooting .41 Mag and .44 Specials and I have set up the 550B for those. Each Square Deal Press is devoted to one calibre......9 mm and .45 ACP.

I did buy a Lee Cast Iron Turret Press which is nice for my other calibres as I do not shoot them so much.

My hat is off to the guy who sold his Dillons and kept his Loadmaster. He must be a mechanical genius....

Kevin Rohrer

06-27-2012, 06:13 PM

Some people prefer the budget Cobalt to a high-end Cadillac. Each to his own, just don't try to convince me a Cobalt is better than an Cadillac. I'll keep my "Cadillac", thank you.

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv29/KevinRohrer/Reloading/IMG_0655.jpg

Lloyd Smale

06-28-2012, 07:12 AM

yes i get a bit stirred up but its because i just dont like to throw away money and with the loadmaster and pro 1000 i bought i feel its just what i did. Yes there cheaper then a dillon and shouldnt be as good because of it and arent. thing is i wouldnt give you 50 bucks right now for a brand new lee loadmaster. Its just not worth the frustration of keep in going. Ive got dillons and lnl hornadys yes they too arent perfect by a long shot and take some tinkering but at least there up loading more then down being tinkered with. If i can save one guy the agravation that i went through then ill rant till i die about it.

zomby woof

06-28-2012, 11:22 AM

I've been running a LM since the late 80's. I now run two, I got one from a guy using it as a door stop. The machine was out of time. It's no wonder he couldn't make ammo with it. The generation III primer feeders are the answer to the LM primer problems. They work much better and there is no way to jam the slider anymore. I've never run a Dillon. They look like the are a better made machine. However, the cost was always too much. Especially when my LM runs so well. The five stations are a plus. I'm amazed how fast 45 acp can be pumped out of this machine.

sparky45

06-28-2012, 11:59 AM

44Vaquero

06-28-2012, 01:00 PM

Sparky, people like to complain; How about Hornday's MIM injected shell plates breaking, RCBS rough castings, Dillion's lack of upgrades that thread was just started the other day, etc. The list goes on and on and really does not prove anything.
I actually have visited that site often and have recommended it to others experiencing teething problems with Load Masters. 20 years ago there were no resources such as this available, we were on our own.
I am not saying LM's do not have quirks and require adjustments to run correctly. But they can be made to run and produce quality ammo very quickly.

UNIQUEDOT

06-28-2012, 01:48 PM

Like i said before i have had very few primer problems with mine and i still use the old primer units. I've read about indexing problems several times as well as priming problems and there is absolutely no way one should have indexing problems with the press once indexing is set, but mine was not set from the factory and that would have been a problem for someone not following instructions.

I don't however discount the fact that it's possible QC is horrible on the machine as it's hard to believe that so many people are incapable of comprehension. I also don't believe for a second that the LM is anywhere near the same class as a Dillon 650 NO WAY, but the instruction sheet say's it's the finest reloader made. :shock:

It still does the same thing for a whole lot less money. I would in no way be able to afford caliber changes on a 650 for the calibers I'm set up for with my LM...heck i couldn't afford them for a 550 either.

sparky45

06-28-2012, 11:16 PM

rbuck351

06-29-2012, 07:48 AM

sparky45

06-29-2012, 10:45 AM

I have a Dillon 550b and am very happy with it. I have been a mechanic, tinkerer for 45+years. Does anyone that has one of the really problem Loadmasters want to get rid of it cheap? I don't especially want one to load with as I have the Dillion but I would like to see what the fuss is all about and would like to see if I could make one work.

Just go to www.loadmastervideos.com and read their Loadmaster thread. There isn't a day that goes by that someone isn't complaining about the primer feed on that press. As it states in their videos the priming function is the #1 problem with that press. Get past that and it will produce quality ammo.

KYCaster

06-30-2012, 12:09 AM

I understand. I grew extremely frustrated with both the Loadmasters I owned and have since replaced with a Dillon 650. As I've stated before, priming off the press and then loading with the loadmaster produces good quality ammo. But for me, it wasn't worth the effort, I had other things that needed my attention. Buy what you like and can afford. I now have 4 presses of which two are Lee(challenger-a great press as well as a lee single stage) and I use them both every time I load. Loadmaster, just not for me.

Same here...........I consistently had 12-15% rejects from 45ACP loaded on the LM, almost all related to primers. Having to prime cases prior to loading defeats the purpose of a progressive press.

Similar situation with the Pro 1000. I had to taper crimp on a single stage press.....why have a progressive if it can't do the job.

I replaced my two LM's and three Pro 1000's with two Hornady LNL's and don't regret it a bit.

I have a Dillon 550b and am very happy with it. I have been a mechanic, tinkerer for 45+years. Does anyone that has one of the really problem Loadmasters want to get rid of it cheap? I don't especially want one to load with as I have the Dillion but I would like to see what the fuss is all about and would like to see if I could make one work.

Sure you can make it work.

Get it adjusted properly on Monday and load a bunch of good ammo. Let it set over night and on Tuesday disassemble the case feeder and primer feeder, clean them, reassemble them, adjust them and load some more ammo. Do it all over again on Wednesday, Thursday, etc., etc.

Jerry

dromia

06-30-2012, 12:34 AM

Wal'

06-30-2012, 04:55 AM

What I just don't understand, is with all the bad feedback read on here & other sites, why are people's still buying & using them, [Loadmaster's]

There must be something going on I don't understand. :|

My mate just bought one, no problems, working well, but reading posts like this it shouldn't be. :shock:

Don't have one myself, have Hornady Progressive & a Rock-Chucker, but like rbuck351would like to find one on Flea Bay to play with.

Love a challenge & love tinkering. :bigsmyl2:

MBTcustom

06-30-2012, 06:17 AM

The Loadmaster can be made to work, and work consistently, but you have to know how to tune it, and make/reinforce a few parts to get them to cooperate. It takes a little tinkering and a good knowledge of how progressive operations work.
So if you are the type of person that has that bent of mind/training the Loadmaster is a no/brainer because it is cheap and made in the USA.
Now, if your'e the type of person who can't get your head wrapped around how contraptions work, then Dillon is the way to go. I'm not saying you'r stupid or anything, some of us are just very mechanically inclined and we wouldn't even be able to drive to work if we didn't do the same kind of repairs and tweaks to our vehicles. If you don't know how to work on stuff, and don't think you deserve to have to learn how, then you pay a higher price for reliability. Its the same way with your car ya know? If you can't afford to buy a new Toyota, quit your griping, roll up your sleeves and grab a wrench!

Lloyd Smale

06-30-2012, 07:14 AM

they buy them because there half the price. consider everyone that goes to a casino. They all have the big dream of spending 50 bucks and coming out with a couple hundred. Problem is 99 times out of a 100 they come out without anytihng but lint in there pockets. Some guys still havent smartened up enough to know that you get what you pay for more in loading gear then about anywhere else. Lots of those lees just decorating benchs and in boxes because the owners have given up. Some sell them for pennys on the dollar. At least with a dillon or hornady you can get some money back out of them on the used market if your not happy with them. Especially a dillon. Even i recently learned that lesson. I lost all my gear in a fire and was purchasing new gear. I bought 3 hornady lnl press, two with case feeders. I bought them because they were cheaper then a 650 and came with a 1000 free bullets each. Well the bullets are long gone and i still have the presses which in my opinion arent near the press a 650 is. I got exactly what i paid for. Granted there still vastly better then the lees but i would have been alot smarter to buy myself two 650s. What you have to factor in when your buying about anything is you have to live with it for the rest of your life.
What I just don't understand, is with all the bad feedback read on here & other sites, why are people's still buying & using them, [Loadmaster's]

There must be something going on I don't understand. :|

My mate just bought one, no problems, working well, but reading posts like this it shouldn't be. :shock:

Don't have one myself, have Hornady Progressive & a Rock-Chucker, but like rbuck351would like to find one on Flea Bay to play with.

Love a challenge & love tinkering. :bigsmyl2:

Paints-n-cows

06-30-2012, 07:42 AM

I am going to throw in here.

Back in the mid 80s, I bought a Lee 1000. I was stationed in the High Desert in California and a few buddies and I were shooting a LOT of rounds....9mm, .38, .357, .41, .44, .45.

It was a pain and I wasted quite a few primers until I learned the press. HOWEVER, if you take the time to learn the system and keep it clean, your problems are minimized.

Now, years later, I have another one since the first one went with the ex. I bought this one from a guy that couldn't get it to run consistently and sold it to me as a deal with a few extra sets of dies.

Last month, I ran about 4k of 9mm in a couple of days, both cast and fmj. The month before that, it was .45 ACP. Since the first of the year, it has had over 20k of rounds run through it to include .223.

The other day in about 5 hours, I ran 1600 rounds of .40 S&W cast rounds and lost only 4 primers due to me failing to keep some errant powder flakes out of the primer slide and had two casings that got crunched.

Perhaps Dillon is the cat's meow, I don't know, never had one and probably never will.

And if you guys that absolutely hate your Lee presses want, send them my way and I will store them for you.

UNIQUEDOT

06-30-2012, 11:06 AM

they don't do anything to rectify or improve the issues.

But they do... they provide an instruction manual with the press. It's up to the purchaser to read and follow them therein.

and make/reinforce a few parts to get them to cooperate.

The instruction manual even makes this point clear, but states if you don't want to do it they can modify a part for you.

I'll happily keep and use mine til a big blue one or the big red one falls from the sky and drops into my lap...i won't keep my fingers crossed waiting though.

UNIQUEDOT

06-30-2012, 11:48 AM

Some guys still havent smartened up enough to know that you get what you pay for more in loading gear then about anywhere else.

This may be true with some things, but not all things. One example would be with Lee dies. just look at the engineering that went into the design of the carbide insert in the pistol die which makes cases look better than those from other manufacturers. What about the fact that they are the only die manufacturer that produces dies with all, but a certainty that there will be no internal warping by finishing the dies after they are heat treated and to top it off they have a smoother internal finish than any of the other manufacturers in their rifle sizers. If you don't want to take their word for it you can compare them to the others which is what i did. Also their newer rifle die expanders are of a design that would be hard to improve on.

Also take a look at the wonderful design engineering that went into the collet dies. BTW i have dies from Lee, Lyman, RCBS, forster, Hornady, lachmiller, and Herter's and regardless of cost none of them are any better than Lee's (most not as good when it comes to internals) even those that have copied them and all of the others that are still in production are more expensive. Now one thing about RCBS dies is they don't rust as easily as any of the others even when touching them with sweaty hands as long as they are cleaned after use and they sure don't rust in storage.

Longwood

06-30-2012, 12:02 PM

My Load Master works quite well.
I took off all of the problematic stuff, added a good powder measure and now it works beautifully. Much fewer time consuming problems and mishaps.
It may not load as fast as a Dillon Progressive but for a casual shooter that maybe shoots two or three thousand rounds a year, they work great once the problems are eliminated.
It is the poorly designed and manufactured plastic add-on's that turns them into a time killer.

If I had it to do over, I would see if I could buy one without the plastic. Then use the saved money for a reliable hand priming system and measure.

dromia

06-30-2012, 12:12 PM

and make/reinforce a few parts to get them to cooperate."The instruction manual even makes this point clear, but states if you don't want to do it they can modify a part for you. "

Your joking aren't you?

If not why the hell don't they make the damned thing fit for purpose in the first place

Longwood

06-30-2012, 12:19 PM

The instruction manual even makes this point clear, but states if you don't want to do it they can modify a part for you.

that is like buying a new car then sending it back to the manufacturer to make what you want to work do what it is supposed to do.

Longwood

06-30-2012, 12:29 PM

What really gets me about Lee is that even although the many issues with Lee kit is widely know, as evidenced by the myriads of "how to get Lee stuff to work" sites, they don't do anything to rectify or improve the issues.

They do not care.
Especially about casters.
They care about money.
Plain and simple.
If they cared about casters they would make sets of cast bullet reloading dies.
How could they not have heard of Cowboy Shoots?

rasto

06-30-2012, 12:29 PM

I wanted to buy another press for me. Right now I have Loadmaster.
I found a good deal (550$ overseas) for Dillon 550 together with many accessories.
But when I saw operation video I changed mine mind.
No auto indexing, no case feeder, no primer feeder, expensive caliber change ...

MBTcustom

06-30-2012, 12:53 PM

that is like buying a new car then sending it back to the manufacturer to make what you want to work do what it is supposed to do.
Yeah, but if I could buy a new car for $2000, you're dang right I would go through the hassle.
Not that I think that the sun rises and sets with Lee you understand, but they have a lot going for them. I do intend to buy a Hornady LNL or a Dillon 650 someday soon, but for a guy who is just getting started, Lee cannot be beat, and for a guy who is reloading because he is broke as a duck, it provides a way to get started.

W.R.Buchanan

06-30-2012, 01:23 PM

This is a Ford vs Chevy discussion. There is no definative answer.

I personally am a Dillon person jsut because I think they are the best engineered machines out there.

Plus that anyone who can sell a gatling gun to the govt. is way cool!

Alot of Lee stuff is very good value. Dies small tools etc. I personally am not a big fan of their presses simply because I design machines for a iving and I don't like the way they designed alot of their machines. There are many ways to do any operation, I usually choose to do them differently.

However the Lee equipment seem to work for alot of people and that is just fine. It requires a higher degree of mechanical expertise to keep a less precise machine running, but it can be done, and if you get it right there is no reason why you should be able to keep it right.

All machines perform a function. All machines require maintenance, some machines require more than others, but that really doesn't matter if yo are willing to perform that maintence and the machine does what you need it to do.

I drive a 83 MBZ 300SD every day. It is 30 years old and cost somebody $45,000 new. It has been taken care of and maintence has been done on a regular basis. it has 276,000 miles on it as of yesterday. It will continue to run for as long as I choose to maintain it.

This car is arguably one of the most reliable cars ever built. $45 grand in 1983 was alot of money, however when looking for one of these cars I looked a t 50 of them before I found one I could work with. It was not pefect but it was close enough that I could make it right.

What I found with these cars was that people thought they were such good cars that they didn't have to mainatin them. This is a very costly attitude as if this car is not maintained it goes to ship just like any other,It just costs more to fix it. lots more!

If you compare my car to a 30 year old Ford Crown Vic that cost $4,000 in 83 you probably see alot more money spent on maintenance to keep it running for 30 years, but it could be done. You also run into the fact that you were driving a Ford instead of a Mercedes which for some is worth the extra money. I paid $4500 for mine 10 years because I believe in the second hand better than second rate philosophy.

point being unless parts physically wear out and need to be replaced, any machine will keep running until something breaks. If the part that breaks is worth less than the machine is then you replace it and keep running if not you sell it and buy a new machine.

If you look at the numbers of all of these different reloading machines that have been sold I think you find that a zillon of both have been sold.

It all comes down to,,, Do you want to drive a Ford or a Mercedes. and are you willing to pay the difference for the satisfaction, or do you just want to make ammo.

It all evens out in the end.

Randy

Longwood

06-30-2012, 01:31 PM

Yeah, but if I could buy a new car for $2000, you're dang right I would go through the hassle.

I paid $1895. for my new VW in 1963.
I could have bought a new Ford for a little less than twice that.
The VW was cheap, yeah,,, but everything worked on it.
I paid $2049 for my first new Datsun pickup.
I could have gotten a Ford for a little less than twice that.
Everything worked on the Datsun.

felix

06-30-2012, 02:00 PM

Anyone who can sell a gatling gun to the govt. is way cool! Yep, GE, for example, did just that with many improvements which brings the "mo-chine" up into this century. ... felix

MBTcustom

06-30-2012, 02:06 PM

I paid $1895. for my new VW in 1963.
I could have bought a new Ford for a little less than twice that.
The VW was cheap, yeah,,, but everything worked on it.
I paid $2049 for my first new Datsun pickup.
I could have gotten a Ford for a little less than twice that.
Everything worked on the Datsun.

So whats your point? You bought a cheap machine to haul your butt to and from. That's exactly what the Lee crowd is doing. Sure it would be nice to have the brand spanking new Dillon, but for most folks, there is no way in heck that they could ever justify it for the amount of shooting they do.
I am only considering it because I am getting orders for 1000 rounds of ammo at a time. My time becomes much more important when I am loading in those volumes, but up to this point, I have been going single stage RC and a Hollywood turret press that I got from my dad. I just can't see even contemplating dropping $1000 for a press and accessories, when I can barely afford to buy powder and primers. I think there are a lot of folks in that boat.

UNIQUEDOT

06-30-2012, 03:09 PM

Your joking aren't you?

If not why the hell don't they make the damned thing fit for purpose in the first place

No I'm not joking, but the parts do fit the press. What it say's is that you may have to modify a part or have them modify one for you to make it work with certain cases/calibers. This usually requires a pocket knife some sort of shim and a tube of super glue...perhaps a needle file. Even if i didn't use the case feeder it would still crank out ammo faster than a 550 will or at least just as fast (i don't think hand indexing slows one down if he's already having to place bullets by hand and cases in the shellplate) but it has the extra station needed for the M die.

UNIQUEDOT

06-30-2012, 03:16 PM

that is like buying a new car then sending it back to the manufacturer to make what you want to work do what it is supposed to do.

No, it's like buying a car when you would have been better off with a pickup, but if need be you can always hook a trailer up to that car to get that odd job done.

dromia

06-30-2012, 03:46 PM

No I'm not joking, but the parts do fit the press. What it say's is that you may have to modify a part or have them modify one for you to make it work with certain cases/calibers. This usually requires a pocket knife some sort of shim and a tube of super glue...perhaps a needle file. Even if i didn't use the case feeder it would still crank out ammo faster than a 550 will or at least just as fast (i don't think hand indexing slows one down if he's already having to place bullets by hand and cases in the shellplate) but it has the extra station needed for the M die.

Well so long as you think that is all right then Lee products are obviously the stuff for you, go to it my man and be happy.

UNIQUEDOT

06-30-2012, 04:09 PM

Well so long as you think that is all right then Lee products are obviously the stuff for you, go to it my man and be happy.

It's not that it can't be adjusted to work with certain cases, but a modification would prevent tampering with adjustments. For instance if you set up the case feeder to work with large cases and then went to a small case you might not only have to change the large slider to a small slider, but you may have to readjust the case feeder depending on the case. When you change back to your other caliber you will have to readjust again, but by modifying a part such as gluing a shim in the small case slider you won't ever have to readjust the case feeder again... make a little more sense now?

MBTcustom

06-30-2012, 05:18 PM

You know, the other thing about the Lee is that it's just cheap enough that you can try it out without being out too much money. I wish I had the money to buy 1 each Dillon, Hornady, and Lee. Get them home and set each one up to load 45ACP and figure out how long it takes to crank out 500 rounds from each one. Side by side comparison from a mechanically inclined person such as myself. Oh well, you pays your money and takes your choice I guess.

W.R.Buchanan

06-30-2012, 05:19 PM

Goodsteel: Tim: if you are getting 1000 rnd orders for ammo consistantly you need to seriously look at tooling up for the job.

IF you are going to be doing commercial numbers you need to bite the bullet so to speak, for a Dillon 650 or really a 1050.

It's like trying to run a production job on a engine lathe when you really need a chucker or hand screw machine or even a CNC machine to do the job right. you can still do it, it's just going to take longer. Time is money!

The point is it all comes down to how many dollars per hour you're going to make. Payback time on any machine purchase has to be evaluated. But your time is also part of the equation. Once you have decided that the machine has paid for itself then, it's all about how much product you can make in 1 hour. That deliniates how much per hour you are making for your trouble.

You need to make twice as much as you think you need!

You can get by for a while taking more time to do a given job, but if you're going to be serious about it you have to obtain the machinery to do the job in the most efficient manner possible within the confines of your abilities and finances. Obviously the less time you are working on the machine the more time you are producing, so down time is a factor also.

A new $2000 Dillon 1050 would pay for itself in about 100,000 rounds and save you 50% or more on time invested. you could go nearly as fast with a Dillon 650 which would cost you less than $800 new to get up and running but would require more maintenance to keep running. There are also used machines out there which lowers your entry into the market but might require some updating or maintenance.

Similarly a Magma casting machine and an automated star sizer is the the way to make Boolits.

In another thread I talked about shotshell loaders. I have three. I have a Pacific DL266 single stage which works like a MEC and I can load about 125 rounds per hour. 6 pulls of the handle to make each round... I have a Pacific DL366 which is the Toyota of progressive shotshell loaders that I can load about 400 rnds per hour. I also have a Spolar which I can load 900 per hour! All three machines make perfect reloaded shotshells and the Spolar takes exactly the same amount of effort to load each round as the Pacific but produces more than twice as much product in one hour. The 266 is not even in the picture and is just something to use as a backup or for special loads.

The Spolar is just a better piece of machinery. It is also 3 times the cost of a new Hornaday DL366.

I paid $50 for the 266 and $150 for the 366 Both screamin' deals, and I could resell both for double easily. I also got a screamin' deal on the Spolar, and I won't say how screamin', but I could resell the machine in 15 minutes on Trapshooters.com for $15-1600. It is a highly desirable machine and commands a higher price because of this. I'm talking Bentley here. And beleive me they are "that good"!

A complete joy to operate! This is worth more $ !

Resale of a Dillon is also high, IE you can get your money back out easily. Just ask Alverex Kelly. This is big part of investing in quality machinery. It has higher resale than the inexpensive stuff. The Dillon stuff resells high because of their warrantee and they will rebuild it for free or nearly free. So you are always buying a used,,, but essentially new,,, machine.

You need to look at the procurrment of machinery as an investment in your business. And once you truly consider all of the factors you'll see why the phrase " buy the best ,,, only cry once!" is indeed valid.

My father coined that phrase and first told me when I was about 12 years old. I didn't fully understand what it meant until I was in business for myself.

The other phrase I'm sure you've heard is that "second hand is better than second rate"

No place is that more is that more meaningful than in machinery for your livelyhood. Always buy the best you can afford, and if you can't afford the best,,, then upgrade as soon as you can.

Randy

MBTcustom

06-30-2012, 05:50 PM

Yeah, you pretty much summed up my thoughts there Randy. The only thing is, I don't have that many orders for ammo, and I have other irons in the fire. I'm still deciding if I really want to go that rout. Just because I can, doesn't mean that I should, you know?

garym1a2

06-30-2012, 06:59 PM

A Lee Classic turrent press is not hard to run 200 rounds per hour in 9mm and 45ACP. The Loadmaster will easy run 500-600 rounds per hour if you feed it primed cases and setup the case feeder properly. The case feeder and the indexer on mine work decent. The primer feeder is a bear, being on the backside of the machine and priming on the up stroke you do not see a problem till it messes up. Than you can also count on a loss primer and maybe a smashed case plus dumping the charge in stage 3.

That said I only run 40S&W on the loadmaster, 9mm and 45acp go on Lee Classic turrent press. The 40S&W is primed and sized on the lee classic cast press than run thru the loadmaster.

My bench has a loadmaster, classic cast turrent, classic cast single stage, challanger, and a hand press. Plus a perfect powder measure and 3 autodisc pro powder measures. So I am not a Lee hater.

I also have three Lee 6Up molds, But I still think the Lee Loadmaster STINKS!

You know, the other thing about the Lee is that it's just cheap enough that you can try it out without being out too much money. I wish I had the money to buy 1 each Dillon, Hornady, and Lee. Get them home and set each one up to load 45ACP and figure out how long it takes to crank out 500 rounds from each one. Side by side comparison from a mechanically inclined person such as myself. Oh well, you pays your money and takes your choice I guess.

Longwood

06-30-2012, 07:44 PM

So whats your point?

.

My point is,,,
When I put out my hard earned money for something that is made for a job, I expect it to work, out of the box, without having to watch a bunch of video's and screw with it for hours to get it to work fairly well.

Ola

06-30-2012, 08:08 PM

r1kk1

06-30-2012, 08:34 PM

My point is,,,
When I put out my hard earned money for something that is made for a job, I expect it to work, out of the box, without having to watch a bunch of video's and screw with it for hours to get it to work fairly well.

+ 1

AGREED!

r1kk1

imashooter2

06-30-2012, 08:42 PM

Kraschenbirn, you said you had an SDB, did you like your SDB - I liked mine. I thought it was great -I suggested on another forum that a man that shoots straight walled pistol cases only shoud definately consider the SDB over the 550. This caused an immediate respose. Many respondents suggested anyone that could rate an SDB over a 550 had to be an idiot, communist or worse - "Only a fool would prefer an SDB over a 550".

Yea, well - is this a great country or what?

Jerry

I have an SDB and a 550 on my bench. The SDB is my tool of choice.

Longwood

06-30-2012, 08:53 PM

LEE and primer explosions: could someone please post a picture (or a link to one) that shows why the LEE priming system explodes? I'm really curious because just here in Finland I know 3 different cases.
Results were:
-1 blind eye
-1 def ear
(-1 no injuries, thanks to use of shooting classes while reloading)

Someone sells a blast shield.
I am surprised they do not come with all of the presses.
I guess they are waiting for the lawsuit that makes them send everyone a free shield.

fryboy

07-01-2012, 05:25 AM

ummm even a bentley comes with an owners manual , and a person who didnt know how to drive couldnt ( just saying the overlooked obvious ) in fact many hours have been spent learning how to drive ( be it a car or a progressive press ) true that some folks take longer to learn than others and some never do , just as some folks can drive great ...until you throw them in a car with a manual transmission . i have a loadmaster , it's currently in a "set it and forget it" mode ,ie; it's been cranking out 45 acp ammo for about two years now ( appox 6,000+ rounds ) very few problems once i got it running ...getting it running was another matter entirely as i received it used and the hardest part ? un-bubba'ing what the previous owner bubba'd up and replacing some parts that they thought wasnt needed ( or something ) yeah it's got a learning curve ( just like driving ANY car ) but i actually prefer lee's pro 1000 for pistol rounds ( but like many wish that it had an extra hole )

Lloyd Smale

07-01-2012, 06:43 AM

you kind of got me there. Even i do like lee dies and some of there small tools like there primer tool and there zip trimmers. Its the progressive presses that i think are junk. some other pieces of junk they make are there powder measures, scales and even there base model single stage press. I had to about laugh at my buddy and it was at my own expense. He wanted to start loading. I didnt think he was really serious so i told him to by one of the lee challeger single stage kits. I figured if he didnt like loading he wasnt out much. Well i have to admit if i would have opened that box of junk when i started loading i probably wouldnt have loaded long either. the press was stiff and cheap feeling, the scale and measure looked like something youd buy for a 4 year old kid to play with. Right out of the gate i threw the measure and scale in the trash and gave him a set of rcbs units i had for spares. After about 2 months he ended up with my old lyman orange crusher press too. About the only good that came with that kit was the lee primer the shell plate sets and the case lube pad and lube. I dont know if the cheapened that single stage press up when they went to the lock and load bushing style of if he just got a bad one but his was sure a ***. By the way he bought 4 sets of lee dies at the same time and there still going strong.
This may be true with some things, but not all things. One example would be with Lee dies. just look at the engineering that went into the design of the carbide insert in the pistol die which makes cases look better than those from other manufacturers. What about the fact that they are the only die manufacturer that produces dies with all, but a certainty that there will be no internal warping by finishing the dies after they are heat treated and to top it off they have a smoother internal finish than any of the other manufacturers in their rifle sizers. If you don't want to take their word for it you can compare them to the others which is what i did. Also their newer rifle die expanders are of a design that would be hard to improve on.

Also take a look at the wonderful design engineering that went into the collet dies. BTW i have dies from Lee, Lyman, RCBS, forster, Hornady, lachmiller, and Herter's and regardless of cost none of them are any better than Lee's (most not as good when it comes to internals) even those that have copied them and all of the others that are still in production are more expensive. Now one thing about RCBS dies is they don't rust as easily as any of the others even when touching them with sweaty hands as long as they are cleaned after use and they sure don't rust in storage.

perotter

07-01-2012, 08:00 AM

Ola

07-01-2012, 08:03 AM

Someone sells a blast shield.
I am surprised they do not come with all of the presses.
I guess they are waiting for the lawsuit that makes them send everyone a free shield.

You mean this?
www.midwayusa.com/product/533868/lee-load-master-progressive-press-primer-explosion-deflector?productNumber=533868

A 5 dollar part? You are absolutely right! It is just amazing that they do not include it in every press they sell.

BTW the reviews of the product are quite interesting: People are buying it AFTER an explosion. Some guy tells that he had 6 primers in the tube when it went off. In one those cases here (Finland) it was almost 100 primers: shooting classes saved his eyes but other ear is now deaf. Would that deflector have saved his hearing?

I took a long look at the Lee Load-Master Progressive Press priming system. The mass explosion is just a chain reaction: One primer ignites the next one and so on. The primer seating station should not be so close to the bulk of of primers. IMO the solution should NOT be the deflector but to completely redesign of the priming system.

perotter

07-01-2012, 08:04 AM

...the scale and measure looked like something youd buy for a 4 year old kid to play with. Right out of the gate i threw the measure and scale in the trash ...

Gee you have a good eye, being able to just look at a scale & know that it won't come up with the correct weight.

MBTcustom

07-01-2012, 08:30 AM

I don't like Lee bashing, but I can't defend that scale. Lee equipment is cheap materials that try to be overcome by genius design. Quite a few times they do just that, but the scale is neither ingenious nor quality. Can't speak to the powder measure.
I got to use my buddies loadmaster and his single stage Lee challenger single stage press. I thought the priming system on the Challenger was pretty smart. I helped him tweak the loadmaster to get the priming system working (pretty simple if you have a few tools) and he's cranking out ammo like there's no tomorrow. He loads 9mm, 40S&W and 45acp. He doesn't have a lot of money, and that that he has, he prefers to spend on quality firearms. He saved some money with Lee equipment, and the targets cannot tell the difference.
So obviously, some folks get more mileage out of Lee equipment than others.

W.R.Buchanan

07-01-2012, 01:02 PM

Longwood: I hear what you are saying about paying hard earned money for a tool and not having it work right.

The pioint however is there are different levels of machines and some cost more than others. It follows that you should get more for more money than less money.

There is no comparison between a VW Jetta and a E320 Mercedes. Sure they both have 4 wheels and 4 doors, and they both do the same job, but one is a much better car and does what it does with a higher degree of satisfaction, and reliability. And with the right care will outlast the other car 2:1 which is what you should expect as it also costs twice as much.

All machines have limitations, if you've found the limitations of your's, then it is tiime to upgrade. You can always sell your used tools on Ebay, and just because you are done with them doesn't mean they are worthless, a zillion others are doing it as we speak. (resale value)

my Dad also said "Spend a little more ,,,get alot more in return"

That one is true most of the time too.

Randy

Lloyd Smale

07-01-2012, 06:47 PM

LUBEDUDE

07-01-2012, 08:31 PM

garym1a2

07-01-2012, 08:48 PM

Plastic properly selected, designed and used does just fine. My glocks has lots of plastic and work great. The problem with the loadmaster is just a cheesy design and the lastest updated to the sliders they sent are just badaids.

All the plastic in the loadmaster primer feed systems does not have 50 cent in material in it. All the money is in the frame and ram.

In automotive applications we use tons plastic (PPS, PBT, Glass filled ...) and they work great in under the hood applications that see a lot of heat and stress.

Looking at the loadmaster makes me think that Lee does not spend much money on engineering nor listening to customer complaints.

i guess im a bit more seriously into this hobby then some. I didnt have to try it. It was obviously a piece of equiptment that had no place on my bench and sure couldnt see a beginning loader struggling with it when i had a nice rcbs unit i didnt use. Sorry but i may be old school but plastic will never replace steal. I have no doubt if push came to shove a guy can load good ammo with cheap lee stuff. Luckily i dont have to.

UNIQUEDOT

07-01-2012, 10:34 PM

i guess im a bit more seriously into this hobby then some. I didnt have to try it. It was obviously a piece of equiptment that had no place on my bench and sure couldnt see a beginning loader struggling with it when i had a nice rcbs unit i didnt use. Sorry but i may be old school but plastic will never replace steal. I have no doubt if push came to shove a guy can load good ammo with cheap lee stuff. Luckily i dont have to.

I have one of the lee scales on my bench that's been there for years and it does work, but it's the most aggravating scale you could ever dream of using so it doesn't get used anymore. I do like the perfect powder measure although every single time i use it the thing feels like it's going to break, but luckily it doesn't. I bought one of the universal charge dies so i could use the perfect powder measure on my loadmaster for rifle rounds and that little venture caused all types of vocabulary to come outta my mouth.

W.R.Buchanan

07-02-2012, 01:57 PM

I am, as most of you have heard many times, a machinist. I've owned my own shop for nearly 30 years. I also design automated machinery. Some of the 'machinists' out there may have heard of the Omniturn CNC lathe,,,, That was my design, and a very successful one it was for Ominiturn.

As a result I tend to view the construction and usability of machines a little more critically than others might.

As far as machine design goes I consider Dillon to be the best. BUY FAR! They do the job with less problems than just about any other brand out there. I have looked at most of them and owned alot of them.

Dillon also has the best, or at least very good, factory support. But the real advantage of the Dillon machine is it's rebuildability. My SDB's can be rebuilt to virtually new for less than $20 or more properly free if I send it in. This can be done as many times as needed (depending on your ability to wear one out) because all the wearing parts are easily replaced. All of the pivot points and sliders are delrin which doesn't require lubrication, and is cheap to make. Plus all that, they are easy machines to understand. Understanding how and why a machine works the way it does is a key factor in keeping it running.

All that said; Dillon is NOT the only outfit that makes good machinery. RCBS, Hornaday, C&H,
Redding, Forester, and yes Lee also make good machinery.

I don't particularly care for Lee automatics. However they make a line of single stage presses from not very expensive, to just as good or better than anyone elses and all of them are good tools. With enough different price points to get anyone involved in the hobby

I consider Lee dies to be among the best value in the reloading business, and the machining on those dies is on parr with ANY OTHER BRAND! IN fact I have sent Redding dies(supposedly the best) back to the factory with snotty letters chastizing them for shipping such poor quality product and having the gaul to charge top dollar for it.

Lee equipment is made to a price point, and their intention is to make an inexpensive product so more people will buy it. Obviously this works as there is plenty of it sold.

I personally don't care for their automated machines, they have what I consider to be design issues that can't be readily fixed, However their other stuff is just fine. I think their toolmakers and designers are pretty good overall. I would like to see them upgrade some of their parts, similar to what they just did with their priming tool, to better materials, and finishes, as I think it would help the company's image overall. But that is their call.

In short, I think it is best to examine what ones involvement with the reloading hobby is, and will be. If you really like it then maybe you should consider either saving your money and buying higher quality machines, or buying some of the used machinery out there.

You will get plenty of opinions here, there is also people at your local club or group that have experience that can help you make decisions. If you make a wrong decision and buy something that is not very friendly to you, you'll find that the beauty of reloading equipment is that you can always sell it and buy different stuff.

If you can do a little restoration work then you'll also find out that you can buy machines for very few $ and clean them up so they are as good as new or better. Seagiant is good at that, and has more different machines than anyone else I know of.

The thing about the reloading hobby is that you can spend as little or as much as you want to, and still shoot the gun.

I started in 1971 with a LEE Loader and a plastic mallet (both of which I still have) and I recommend every one starts there. Once you understand the process then moving up to a good quality single stage press is the next step. Then if you need to load a large vcolumn you can buy more machines.

No one tool will do it all, but some tools can do most of it, and that's why you need a single stage press as a basic tool.

The rest is just trial and error until you get it right. Just do your homework. "Speed costs money,,, How fast do you want to go?"

Randy

rbuck351

07-03-2012, 01:05 AM

W R
Excellent post. I completely agree.

jimkim

07-03-2012, 01:20 AM

"Speed costs money,,, How fast do you want to go?" Randy

I never thought of Lee presses as hotrods. Maybe that's why I like 'em so much. The gang(not street gang) I used to run with all drag raced. I really miss the smell of nitrous, tire smoke, and VHT! Thanks for the memory!

MBTcustom

07-03-2012, 08:28 AM

W.R.Buchanan, excellent post. Very informative. You put it susinctly.

four70nitro

07-03-2012, 10:03 AM

I started off reloading with my dad more than 50 years ago. In those days we were loading .22 Hornet, .218 Bee, .38 Special and a few other small calibers with an old Lyman nut-cracker tool. My dad would give me a batch of cases and an assignment and I'd go to town running that tool to do whatever the current assignment was. We made a lot of perfectly suitable ammo using that tool and my dad shot of lot of rock chucks and other varmints with it.

Later he upgraded to a single-stage press. I believe it was from Herter's (remember how much fun it was to read the old Herter's catalogs? You could buy anything from feather's for fly tying to diamonds...) We loaded a lot more ammo on that old Herter's press. All sorts of calibers. Some of it with individually hand-weighed charges, some of it with powder charges dipped using custom made (out old pistol cases) scoops or from a set of Lee powder dippers. Later he bought a powder measure but I couldn't tell you now what brand it was.

Later still he upgraded to a RCBS Jr. press because everyone (except I think Herter's) had standardized on the same thread size for reloading dies. I can't begin to tell you how many thousands of rounds we loaded over the years on those single stage presses. A great many of them using bullets we cast from lead he scrounged here, there, and yon.

After I moved out of the house I started buying my own reloading equipment and in the early days that was an RCBS Jr. press and a Lyman powder measure along with an old RCBS 10-10 scale. I loaded a lot of ammo with those tools as well.

Sometime not too long after that after spending a few days hanging off the side of a ladder with snow blowing through my welding helmet - welding the backside of a pipe in a mirror - I remember thinking there had to be a better way to make a living. Then I got really sick and missed about a week of work. I'd seen them lay people off for missing a day so I figured I was without a job. The first day I was ambulatory I went to the post office to mail something and decided to stop by the local gun store. The guy behind the counter asked me why I wasn't at work, and thinking I was probably unemployed I told him I was looking for a job. He asked me if I'd ever done any reloading and I said "Sure, ever since I was 4 or 5 with my dad" they hired me on the spot. I spent the next five years working at a great job.

We sold tons of reloading stuff. We stocked EVERYTHING that Lee, RCBS, Bonanza, Ponsness-Warren and Lyman made (Hornady made bullets but not reloading equipment in those days.) I sold a lot of reloading equipment to people of all walks of life - we sold a lot of Lee, a ton of RCBS, and a lot less of the more expensive stuff. They all made things that had their strong points and their weak points.

We had two or three customers that we using "progressive" reloaders but in those days (1980-ish) there weren't really any being marketed to the general public. One customer in particular was using a Dillon (in those days I think it was called a 300 or 350) and claimed to really like it. I used to chat with him about it and occasionally we would order parts for him because there was no factory direct option. We didn't stock Dillon (Lee wasn't making one yet) or any other progressive presses because in those simply zero demand for them.

I remember the day that the latest issue of Handloader magazine arrived and I opened it and found the entire inside cover was a full-page add for Dillon selling 450 machines direct to the public - I think the price was $160 with one caliber conversion included. I called a pathologist friend of mine that I did a bit of reloading for and told him about it and he said "Order one, I'll pay for it, you keep it and you can load ammo for me." I ordered one that afternoon. It arrived about a week later with conversions for .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and .38/357. I set it up immediately and started making .44 Mag ammo.....so much that I got tendinitis in my elbows. I was in HEAVEN! Who'd ever have thought you could manufacture ammo in such quantities so quickly?!? It was great. My friend moved away a year or so later, I still have (and use) that press.

I remember calling the Dillon to order a couple more conversion plates about 10 days after receiving my press. I asked the fellow I talked to how the direct sales thing was going. He told me they had about 2000 presses on hand when the advertisement broke and that they had a 100 press/day capacity and they were currently running 2-3 weeks behind.

A number of years later I bought a Dillon 550 with three caliber conversions I didn't already own, plus the dies, brass, bullets, and one of Dillon's fabulous primer pocket swaging tools out of the local Nickel want ads paper for $175. It became my go-to machine for everything but .220 Swift which I still loaded on the original 450 I bought (since it was a unique shell-plate.) Just last fall I bought another Dillon 550 from the widow of a reloader. It came with three sets of Dillon carbide dies plus two powder measures, several conversion kits, etc., etc.......paid a whopping $250 for that one. I tried to give her more - she wouldn't take it.

I currently have both 550's set up on my bench - one for small primers and one for large - because changing the primer feed back and forth was my least favorite part of the conversion process. I have no idea of how much ammo I've loaded on either one, or how much was loaded on them before I bought them - but I can tell you I've loaded thousands and thousands of rounds of pistol ammo on both.

They are great machines -- they just flat work. Period. I've never owned or used a Lee, already owned a Dillon by the time Lee started selling their machine and didn't need to try one. I have friends that are experienced reloaders that have used the Lee machines. All but one have converted to Dillon or Hornady machines since. The one is really happy with his Lee machine. He doesn't load huge quantities of ammo, but probably 2500/year or so. He's happy with it and we don't argue about it.

Lee has always been really good at making tools at a price point, but they also make some very effective tools. I'm still using a Lee auto priming tool (occasionally) that my dad bought from me when I worked at the gun store 35 years ago. Does it work - absolutely. Is it a thing of beauty like the Sinclair hand-priming tool......do I need to answer that?

Beauty has always been in the eye of the beholder. If someone wants to put up with the quirks and foibles (real or perceived) of a specific brand of equipment and they have invested their funds to do so what possible difference would that make to me? Am I going to go out and buy a Lee progressive loader - Are you kidding, I already own 4 Dillons, 2 RCBS's, a Lyman, and 2 Ponsness-Warrens. Do I recommend Dillon equipment - you bet! I've had nothing but a great experience with it right from the start, designed well, made of high quality materials, obviously designed by someone that has done a lot of reloading and fast, friendly customer service. Do I belittle my friend who likes his Lee press - never, it's his money and his experience and he likes it so what the heck do I care.

Why do people buy Snap-On tools when there is Proto, S-K, Blackhawk, Craftsmen, and Harbour Freight. Because they can.....

My parting comment is that there is more to consider in a purchase than simply the price, and my experience with reloading equipment, hand-tools, machine tools, guns, knives, cars and ice cream is that he who shops by price alone usually deserves exactly what he gets.

Dave

Longwood

07-03-2012, 10:29 AM

I remember the day that the latest issue of Handloader magazine arrived and I opened it and found the entire inside cover was a full-page add for Dillon selling 450 machines direct to the public - I think the price was $160 with one caliber conversion included. .
Dave

I remember that day VERY well.
I had just wasted the previousl Saturday driving the full length of Orange County, most of LA county and way too many LA city streets to go and pay $336 for one from a dealer.
DOH!

The best business move Dillon ever did, was cut out the dealers.

44Vaquero

07-03-2012, 03:46 PM

I remembered having tucked the PDF away for just such an occasion. For those of you looking for an head to head to head review here it is:

http://fatwhiteman.com/files/28524-27069/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

It well worth the read!

UNIQUEDOT

07-03-2012, 07:09 PM

I've read that comparison before and it seems the guy thinks the Hornady LNL is the best thing going. I've read other posts that claim the hornady is better than the 650, but in this thread Lloyd claims the opposite. Peoples opinions confuse me when it comes to presses, but i do like the features of the hornady such as cases and bullets being fed on the same side of the machine as well as ejection. Also like the fact that you can quickly remove either die you desire while leaving others put.

Lloyd Smale

07-03-2012, 07:20 PM

I own 3 lnl progressives so i have a pretty good grasp on them and ive loades thousands of rounds on 650s and ill tell you with no hesitation the only advantaget a lnl has over a 650 is cost. Only possible reason i could see buying one other then price is if i wanted to run the press without a case feeder. the 650 is awkward wtihout it. It was designed to have one and its the main reason why its so supperior to the add on case feeder set up hornady uses. If you want my opinion what is the most reliable? Id have to vote 550 hands down. You give up auto advance but there so reliable that there almost boring to run and they will crank out enough ammo for 99 percent of shooters. to be honest if push came to shove i could get by with just my 550 to do all my loading.

UNIQUEDOT

07-04-2012, 12:24 PM

If you want my opinion what is the most reliable? Id have to vote 550 hands down. You give up auto advance but there so reliable that there almost boring to run and they will crank out enough ammo for 99 percent of shooters. to be honest if push came to shove i could get by with just my 550 to do all my loading.

I wanted a 550, but couldn't find anywhere to put an m die in it. Maybe Dillon's powder funnels work well enough for boolits? I've never heard anyone talk about them, good or bad. When i bought my loadmaster it was $190 delivered NIB and came with the dies. It paid for itself in a few hours and it's still going. If it does eventually invent too many problems to deal with i guess the LNL will be the best (as far as price) alternative in a five station press.

Walt

07-04-2012, 01:05 PM

HA HA HA.....[smilie=l:

rbuck351

07-04-2012, 10:53 PM

Some of the Dillon powder dies work like an M die and some don't. An M/powder die for a dillon would be easy to make to your specs if needed.

Lloyd Smale

07-05-2012, 06:16 AM

with a little thought alot of dillons pistol powder dies can be used as expanders. Like say using a 32mag powder die to load 30 cal rifle rounds.

MBTcustom

07-05-2012, 07:42 AM

I'm really glad I subscribed to this thread, I feel I'm getting a "working mans" knowledge of all of these options without haveing to buy them to find out what the quality is.
I have a couple of questions since there are dillon fans here a-plenty.
Is it true that the Dillon frame is made of magnesium? I heard that somewhere and I never was able to substantiate it.
Is the 550 able to reload magnum rifle cartridges?
Is it possible to make good quality target rifle ammo with a progresive press, or will that function be reserved for a single stage press?
Interesting discussion fellers.

r1kk1

07-05-2012, 08:41 AM

http://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/dillon_rl_550b_manual_may_2007.pdf

Scroll down to page 18.

r1kk1

W.R.Buchanan

07-05-2012, 07:56 PM

Tim: How "target" are you talking about.

The normal method of loading "target ammo" is to completely prep the cases up to primed. Then you throw a charge, dump it in, seat a bullet and then crimp or not.

I suppose you could set up a 550 with the powder funnel on the charging station, and RCBS or other precision bulletseating die, and then a crimp die in the last station. (I crimp most all of my ammo)

By the time you've got the cases prepped and primed the only significant operations left are the charge and the bullet seat. That obviously can be done on a single stage just as easily.

There really isn't any reason to use a 550 for that, although you could. I can see an advantage if you are crimping too as that would be three operations.

If you are looking at loading empty cases, from start to finish for high power rifle then other than the powder measure not being really suitable for consistant charges of stick powder then yes it could be done.

Most "correctly assembled ammo" will be good enough for National Match type of over the course shooting. For volumn loading of .223 brass then it is just fine.

If you want one hole stuff you'll probably still have to do it the old way.

I assemble my Silhouette ammo by prepping the cases as above then I have my C&H 4station press set up so I can drop the weighed charge from the DPS3, move the case to the RCBS Comp seating die, and then move the case to the crimp die.

You could do the same thing with a Dillon and not have to touch the case or use a turret press too.

I am setting my PW Metalmatic 2 to load .223's. It moves the case from station to station on a shuttle.

All of them do the exact same thing they just do it in slightly different ways.

Tim: You're a machinist. Just look at reloading like running a turret lathe. You're just producing a different product. The less times you actually touch the end product the better it will be.

Randy

Plate plinker

07-05-2012, 08:28 PM

Goodsteel, idk about the 550, but my1050 must be steel cause it is really heavy. [smilie=w:

MBTcustom

07-05-2012, 09:04 PM

I was thinking about a progressive because I was approached by a customer about loading 1000 rounds of .223 "match grade" ammo. I don't think this guy has any concept of what match grade is, because when I started asking what barrel and twist rate he had on his full-auto Colt AR, his eyes glazed over as the chorus of crickets was heard in the background. I got the impression he wanted good components, but that he was going to rip through them in one afternoon and be back for more next week. Thus, my interest in this thread. I was about set on the loadmaster as being a compact, lightwieght, cheap, way to get me going on that order, but now I wonder what other uses I should be thinking about when considering a progressive, and that I may want to think beyond this immediate job and think about future enterprises as well. The information in this thread is making me think much harder about that decision. If all I was after was to load a few thousand rounds for this fella till he gets tired of the high prices, I would definitely go with the Lee, as I could justify it for one job such as this, but I am thinking all of a sudden about what would happen if another such fella comes up with a request for .308 ammo? What then? Another press? a press worth of time making the conversion and ironing out the bugs? Hmmmmm. Maybe that Dillon isn't such a bad deal after all. Then again, I suppose I should just load them like they are going in a match rifle, single stage style, and let him pay the cost of my time and decide how he wants to burn them.
Decisions decisions.......

Plate plinker

07-05-2012, 10:08 PM

It depends on you definition of match grade I suppose. I have never shot long range matches, but have done pdogs at 500 yds with my 204 ruger loaded on the 1050. And I'll tell you what there is nothing like hearing that clunk of a shell dropping with every pull of the lever.

W.R.Buchanan

07-05-2012, 10:58 PM

Tim: you are right at the crossroads of machinery aquisition.

I will reiterate one of my earlier truisms.

"Buy the best,,, Only cry once."

Here's the deal, the machine will pay for itself, how long it takes will depend on how much you use it.

By the time you loaded 1000 rounds of .223 you should have the machine pretty well figured out. You should also be able to figure out if it has paid for itself.

The idea of loading a thousand of anything on a single stage press is something I just wouldn 't consider. However I have bought many machines and tools just to do one job which were paid for by that one job and then I had them waiting for the next job. The next job was all profit!

Just today I had to spring $45 for a new collet for my Tapmatic just so I could tap 160 holes in 20 minutes instead of doing it with the mill or by hand which would have taken hours. I purposely shut down Tues afternoon and ordered the part, knowing I wouldn't be able to work on this job yesterday. The part came in today and I burned thru the job quickly and now I have a new collet for the Tapmatic.

It was a necessary investment. And I didn't waste my time and effort working twice as hard to accomplish the same result.

A Dillon 550 would make your upcoming job much easier to accomplish. A 650 would make it even easier.

Hardinge used to sell High Precision 1 HP lathes based on the fact that you buy a type of machine based what you do mostly in your shop, and most people do stuff on a lathe that is small and under 1". So you buy a lathe that is sized to your work.

I rarely turn parts larger than 1" but if I need to, I can stretch the Hardinge all the way to 9" as long as the part is short and fat. I have a 6" chuck for it. If it is bigger I have friends with bigger machines I can use.

My whole point is, the joy of using good machinery lasts longer than the sting of paying more for a High Quality tool. Or,,

Buy the best,,, only cry once.

You can buy a new Dillon 550 for $450 and it comes with one caliber conversion. So you'd get the .223 set up and start there adding caliber conversions as needed. There are also many available on Ebay all the time. Also tool plates and die sets can be had on ebay for less than from the factory, and lots of times you can get a 550 with several caliber setups for a good price.

Believe me there are very few people who regret buying Dillon equipment.

The stuff may be a little more initially than a Lee progressive, but really what's $100 or so when you're getting so much more in return.

You'll figure this out I'm sure. The other thing with the Dillon stuff is that if you hate it you can always sell it in a few minutes for what you have in it. Which should tell you something?

Randy

MBTcustom

07-06-2012, 12:07 AM

The stuff may be a little more initially than a Lee progressive, but really what's $100 or so when you're getting so much more in return.
That may be true, but the difference between the Dillon and the Lee is that with the Lee I will see a profit with the first job, but with the Dillon, I will actually be taking a hit and paying $150 for the privilege of owning that piece of equipment, because all of the profits are sopped up by the press. Not saying its a bad deal, but where I'm at in my business, that's a tough nut to swallow. Of course, I may be overly generous with my rates.

Longwood

07-06-2012, 12:29 AM

Tim,
You are way to big of a guy to take the risk of buying a Load Master.
Think about the damage that you may cause when you heave it across the shop.

MBTcustom

07-06-2012, 12:38 AM

If it realy ticked me off that bad, I would get revenge by shooting it.......maybe with ammo loaded on a Dillon.:twisted:

Longwood

07-06-2012, 12:44 AM

All kidding aside, a Load Master is not all that bad of a press if one were to de-prime and clean the brass, then prime with a APS strip or other simi automatic primer setup mounted on the bench or a single stage press.
Then, load them on the Load Master with the case feeder and a Dillon or other powder measure made to work with the Lee press.
I would not even mess with the bullet feeder, I have a left hand that can do that just fine.
It may not be as fast as some can load but it sure would not take long to pay for a Load Master.

Alvarez Kelly

07-06-2012, 01:06 AM

Tim,

I have a thought...

I'll loan you a Dillon 550 for the cost of shipping it to you. If you decide you want it, we can work something out. I think I even have an extra 223 conversion and a set of Dillon carbide .223 dies around here somewhere...

It's not all altruistic... it's just a thinly disguised attempt to get you on the "blue" team! :-P

Let me know.

AK

Longwood

07-06-2012, 02:22 AM

altheating

07-06-2012, 05:51 AM

Lee makes some good stuff. The collet neck sizing dies are fantastic! Priming tools, JUNK! Presses on the other hand are not what I would call fantastic, reasonably priced yes. Entry level, yes. I understand that price sells in this economy and that is what many people have to go on. I have owned three Lee's and all went down the road through Ebay. Come to think of it, I had another Lee progressive given to me a few years ago. His exact words were "you can have this piece of $%&!" I sold that one too. On my bench now sets a RCBS Rockchucker Supreme, RCBS Turret, a Dillon 550 and Dillon Square Deal. The next one on the radar is the Dillon Super 1050. Take AK's offer, you won't be disappointed.

Doc_Stihl

07-06-2012, 08:36 AM

I've said this a few times on this board, but I'll say it again.

If you're looking for a progressive press, CHECK OUT THE RCBS Pro 2000!

APS strip loading ELIMINATES priming issues. Fastest tool head/shell plate change of any press that I know of. And it's Green.

MBTcustom

07-06-2012, 08:43 AM

I'll loan you a Dillon 550 for the cost of shipping it to you. If you decide you want it, we can work something out. I think I even have an extra 223 conversion and a set of Dillon carbide .223 dies around here somewhere...
I can't pass that up. I've never even pulled the handle on a Dillon, so that will make it very easy to compare with what I have already done.
Thank you for your kind offer!

Rockchucker

07-06-2012, 10:47 AM

I can't pass that up. I've never even pulled the handle on a Dillon, so that will make it very easy to compare with what I have already done.
Thank you for your kind offer!

Finally! You're on the right track and you'll never regret it either.

1bluehorse

07-06-2012, 12:16 PM

These are the progressive presses I'm using (not very often actually) RCBS Ammomaster Autos. precursors to the Pro 2000, so I haven't anything bad to say about anyone else's choices. I really don't shoot/load enough anymore to warrent a progressive (use a LCT mostly) but I have them because I have them, and I kinda enjoy running a couple hundred through them once in a while just to watch them work. One's setup for LP one is SP. If I were running a thou or more a month I think I would look pretty hard at a Dillon, probably the Square deal as I don't reload rifle on anything other than SS. Well, because I don't shoot that many.....thats why..;-)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/imagehosting/thum_114154ff70f2a4756c.jpg (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=5795)

375RUGER

07-06-2012, 12:35 PM

Tim,
Come to the dark side, do not resist. [smilie=w:

Alvarez,
Let me know if you don't have extra 223 dies and conversions, I can loan a tool head ready to go.

Mal Paso

07-06-2012, 12:43 PM

Anyone Know Where the LNL is made?

I'm guessing Import as I'm finding No Info.

I'm trying to limit the Chinese in my diet.

Thanks

W.R.Buchanan

07-06-2012, 12:49 PM

Tim: There you go. I have actually bought one of Brian's Square Deals (I have two) and he is a great guy to deal with.

If he is loaning you a D550, you won't be sending it back. You'll buy it and it will be a bargain. This is the best of all possible outcomes as you'll be able to test drive the machine and see why we are all beating on you to go Blue!

The first job profit thing is not always the best way to look at work. Sure it's good to be able to do that, but sometimes (and this is one of them) there are other reasons for buying a more expensive machine. Especially if you are going to do the same or similar job again soon. IF you are going to do volumn loading on a regular or even semi-regular basis it is a no brainer to get the best machine you can afford, and it's usually a good idea to spend a little more than you wanted to just to make sure. I know you want to load .45 ACP also and this machine will do that too, and there are always tool heads on ebay for .45 ACP. Brian probably has one of those as well.

First you'll spend less time actually working with the Dillon Machine. That means you are making money. Second: you'll have a better machine which is more user friendly (IE you'll have to F*&^with it less) which also means you'll spend less time working. IE making more $ per hour.

You should be able to mount the press, set up the powder charge (use some kind of fine grained or ball powder for best results, Like W748 or similar.) and start making product. You should be done a few hours later.

Then you'll need to spend some time petting your new toy!

Just do it ! ,,,, we haven't steered you wrong yet,,,, Have we?

Randy

Alvarez Kelly

07-06-2012, 01:21 PM

Tim,
Come to the dark side, do not resist. [smilie=w:

Now that's funny!

Alvarez,
Let me know if you don't have extra 223 dies and conversions, I can loan a tool head ready to go.

I did find a .223 conversion and the carbide dies. Thanks anyway!

Longwood

07-06-2012, 03:44 PM

Anyone Know Where the LNL is made?

If you spell it out so we know what it is you are speaking of,,, it will help immensely.

Alvarez Kelly

07-06-2012, 03:47 PM

Hornady Lock N Load maybe...

Longwood

07-06-2012, 05:09 PM

I'm really glad I subscribed to this thread,

How about now?:)

Now you won't need to reinvent the priming system and replace the powder measure.
Plus,,,,
Much less danger of flying red machinery or pieces of lead ricocheting around in the shop.:Fire:

Longwood

07-06-2012, 05:12 PM

Hornady Lock N Load maybe...

Thanks AK

PS
What you are doing for goodsteel is A OK.

Kilroy08

07-06-2012, 08:11 PM

I want to thank every one for all the input. I've been watching this thread for a while, since I had my doubts about Lee presses.

It looks like I'm going with the Load Master. I wanted Hornady, but it's just too expensive.

I'm mechanically inclined and don't foresee anything arising that would be beyond the scope of my mechanical prowess. Single stage is starting to suck, I need more production output.

However, the Rock Chucker is staying for load development.

Has anybody dealt with FS Reloading? They seem to have the best walk in price on Lee stuff. $215.00 for a Load Master set up for .45 ACP. I tried e-mailing them to find out if they offer FFL holder discounts, no reply. I'm curious as to how they will stack up to Graf's pricing once I get my 03 FFL and my dealer account set up. Their current walk in price is about $235.00 for the same equipment, dealer price yet to be seen.

zuke

07-06-2012, 09:34 PM

zomby woof

07-06-2012, 10:34 PM

Titan reloading $214
http://www.titanreloading.com/presses/lee-load-master/lee-load-master-pistol-calibers/45-acp-lee-load-master-

garym1a2

07-07-2012, 06:29 AM

Make sure they have a good return plociy!

I want to thank every one for all the input. I've been watching this thread for a while, since I had my doubts about Lee presses.

It looks like I'm going with the Load Master. I wanted Hornady, but it's just too expensive.

I'm mechanically inclined and don't foresee anything arising that would be beyond the scope of my mechanical prowess. Single stage is starting to suck, I need more production output.

However, the Rock Chucker is staying for load development.

Has anybody dealt with FS Reloading? They seem to have the best walk in price on Lee stuff. $215.00 for a Load Master set up for .45 ACP. I tried e-mailing them to find out if they offer FFL holder discounts, no reply. I'm curious as to how they will stack up to Graf's pricing once I get my 03 FFL and my dealer account set up. Their current walk in price is about $235.00 for the same equipment, dealer price yet to be seen.

r1kk1

07-07-2012, 09:43 AM

I'm really not trying to be pessimistic, but I can see new threads spinning from this one that rehashes old threads.

r1kk1

MBTcustom

07-07-2012, 10:42 AM

Then again, this thread might be sighted as the end-all be-all discussion on the pros and cons of the top 3 brands. I have learned a lot just reading through it (Alvarez Kelly's generosity not withstanding). Excellent discussion here, and we managed to keep it somewhat civil which is always a good thing, and lots of good info has been thrown in the middle of the table.
Most folks are sharply devided on this issue between the loadmaster and the dillon, with the LNL thrown in there as an option. One camp thinks that the Loadmaster is not worth their time, and the other camp thinks that the Dillon is not worth their money. I have had opportunity to use the loadmaster, and was impressed by how much you get for your money. Now, when I get the Dillon from Brian, I will be able to do an apples to apples comparison.
I was just looking at the Dillon website. The Dillon 550B (always heard that was the way to go) is selling for $394 compared to the Loadmaster which sells at Midway for $245 giving a difference of $150, about 50% more expensive for the Dillon.
If it goes at least $50 faster including maintenance time, then its about even. If it works better than that in some way, then it makes sense to go Blue, but if it only gains say 40% all things considered, then Red is the way to go. I'm very curious!

Mal Paso

07-07-2012, 11:36 AM

Dillon and Lee are made in the USA. Where is the LNL from?

If someone has a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP it should say where it is made.

Thanks

W.R.Buchanan

07-07-2012, 12:58 PM

Tim: Let me interject one more factor into the discussion.

"Tactile Gratification."

Tactile gratification is the satisfaction you get when you operate a machine or use a tool that feels good. I'm sure you have at least one tool that you like everytime you pick it up, and others that you dread using but have to for whatever reason. I have a 10mm MAC combination/socket wrench that I bought in 1969 and I smile everytime I pick it up. It just feels good to the touch. I also have 12,13,14,15,17,19, versions of the same wrench, but they don't feel as good. The 10MM delivers the tactile gratification, the others,,, not so much.

It is a sense of well being that comes with using something that functions perfectly and needs little attention. A smooth operating machine is a joy to use. It feels good when you operate the handle, and that translates to confidence, which allows you to place your attention on other things, which in this case results in better quality ammunition.

A rough operating machine just feels bad, it just feels like it is wearing itself out everytime you pull the handle, and no amount of lubrication fixes it.

Have you noticed how some machine tools just feel better than others? Bridgeports just feel better than most of the clones. Hardinge Lathes just feel better than chinese stuff. This is a product of superior engineering and the guys that design and produce the product put a little of themselves in each and every unit that goes out the door. It is NOT a function of production volumn, it is a function of design. You can produce great machines just as fast as you can make not so great ones.

Resist the urge to go cheap here, the satisfaction you get from the Dillon will be with you long after you forget about the extra $150.

I saw a poor SOB at McDonalds this morning with 8 kids. He spent $75 just buying them breakfast.

Look at it as two trips to McDonalds.[smilie=p:

Randy

Kevin Rohrer

07-07-2012, 03:14 PM

Resist the urge to go cheap here, the satisfaction you get from the Dillon will be with you long after you forget about the extra $150.

No kidding. Remember the motto" "The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory."--- Aldo Gucci

And does Lee's warranty equal Dillon's? Probably not.

seagiant

07-07-2012, 03:31 PM

I saw a poor SOB at McDonalds this morning with 8 kids. He spent $75 just buying them breakfast.

Look at it as two trips to McDonalds.[smilie=p:

Randy

Randy,
You always crack me up! I knew a boy that I worked with that had 5 kids and went through a gallon of milk just at breakfast!

UNIQUEDOT

07-07-2012, 09:12 PM

The Dillon 550B (always heard that was the way to go) is selling for $394 compared to the Loadmaster which sells at Midway for $245 giving a difference of $150, about 50% more expensive for the Dillon.
If it goes at least $50 faster including maintenance time, then its about even. If it works better than that in some way, then it makes sense to go Blue, but if it only gains say 40% all things considered, then Red is the way to go. I'm very curious!

Actually the 550b set up to load one caliber with the dies cost $503.90 and there is still no case feeder included. The loadmaster costs $245.00 set up for one caliber including dies and also has the case feeder. When i bought mine it was $190 delivered and that was the main reason i chose it and another reason was it's ability to house five dies.

sparky45

07-07-2012, 09:35 PM

Actually the 550b set up to load one caliber with the dies cost $503.90 and there is still no case feeder included. The loadmaster costs $245.00 set up for one caliber including dies and also has the case feeder. When i bought mine it was $190 delivered and that was the main reason i chose it and another reason was it's ability to house five dies.

ACTUALLY, Amazon.com has the 550b for $394.

fryboy

07-08-2012, 06:45 AM

it's hard to compare a stripped dillon to a fully loaded lee ... well in pricing anyways , and then if you are comparing prices dont forget to scope out the caliber changes price , scre...erm to heck with the price i look at the caliber change time ( if time is money yada yada etc )
btw ? a stripped loadmaster runs $141 and i can change calibers in just a few minutes ( even less if i dont have to change the shell plate/primer size )

http://www.titanreloading.com/presses/lee-load-master

they have it ready to run in most calibers for $214

sparky45

07-08-2012, 08:36 AM

Can't argue with you fryboy, that is if you're content with priming OFF the press like I ended up doing, or constantly re-adjusting the Ram just to be able to reload anything at all. If you want one of the best, you can't argue with Dillon. For me it was a matter of ENJOYING the reloading experience, not how many or how fast I could turn out the ammo. I owned (2) Loadmaster presses and they would put out quality ammo if I primed OFF the press. At that time I was limited as to how much time I could devote to reloading and it became a very frustrating experience. I am now retired and enjoy every time I reload on my 650 Dillon. For the extra money up front was well worth the piece of mind and satisfaction I now enjoy. Always, ALWAYS buy the best you can afford you won't be disappointed.

UNIQUEDOT

07-08-2012, 09:14 AM

ACTUALLY, Amazon.com has the 550b for $394.

$394 is without the caliber change or dies which you need to load one caliber. add those to load one caliber and the 550b is over $500.00. You can shave $30.00 off the $503.90 by using lee dies, but that's the very minimum cost to load your first caliber.

UNIQUEDOT

07-08-2012, 09:39 AM

if you're content with priming OFF the press like I ended up doing

Sparky, i don't have priming problems with my press. I've had a problem once and it was .380 and i never found the problem because i was so frustrated i walked away seeing blue...literally, but when i changed calibers and went back to .380 so i could find the problem it had went away. I know a lot of people complain about priming problems on the press, but if you look at the number of these presses they sell, the problems are few in comparison.

I like the priming system on mine (old style) and it's very simple to change the units. I have had a sideways primer before, but that happens if i get too fast so i try to go slower. The instructions say "you can go as fast as you want and the press wont malfunction" but if i go too fast i will get a sideways primer at some point and speed may be others problems.

My press has never failed to feed a primer (that i recall) and if it's operated according to the instructions i don't see how it could. I think the number one problem people probably have with it is they damage the primer slider when changing shellplates and then of course the priming system isn't going to work. I did this only once and then i read the instructions to troubleshoot it and now i always remember to keep my eye on the priming lever and slide it back after changing a shellplate. I don't know if I'm in a minority liking the priming system or if I'm in a minority simply because i read and followed the instructions on it's proper use, but i do like it.

I would love to get my hands on one of those that have priming problems, or indexing, case feeding problems just so i could see for myself if it's a QC issue or an TCFU issue (too complicated for user issue) i talked to a Lee rep trying to find out what the folks problems were and if indeed any of the presses were defective that they received for repair and he told me the problem was usually "someone new to reloading or someone unable to comprehend everything the press is doing at once so they never actually had everything properly adjusted".

sparky45

07-08-2012, 09:46 AM

I agree that the Lee Loadmaster is a good press, but the priming issue is the number one reason for customer complaints. Like I said, the Loadmaster turns out quality ammo, and did for me, IF I simply hand primed the brass. Once past the priming issue the press was pretty much good to go. I know you visit www.loadmastervideos.com and you must admit, almost ALL complaints are priming issues, that's why Lee has gone through 3 revisions recently of their primer sliders. The one contributor there that has excellent solutions to the priming issue is Magic Mike. Using his suggestions just might fix the priming problems. BTW, my feeling is that it is a matter of QC.

Sparky, i don't have priming problems with my press. I've had a problem once and it was .380 and i never found the problem because i was so frustrated i walked away seeing blue...literally, but when i changed calibers and went back to .380 so i could find the problem it had went away. I know a lot of people complain about priming problems on the press, but if you look at the number of these presses they sell, the problems are few in comparison.

I like the priming system on mine (old style) and it's very simple to change the units. I have had a sideways primer before, but that happens if i get too fast so i try to go slower. The instructions say "you can go as fast as you want and the press wont malfunction" but if i go too fast i will get a sideways primer at some point and speed may be others problems.

My press has never failed to feed a primer (that i recall) and if it's operated according to the instructions i don't see how it could. I think the number one problem people probably have with it is they damage the primer slider when changing shellplates and then of course the priming system isn't going to work. I did this only once and then i read the instructions to troubleshoot it and now i always remember to keep my eye on the priming lever and slide it back after changing a shellplate. I don't know if I'm in a minority liking the priming system or if I'm in a minority simply because i read and followed the instructions on it's proper use, but i do like it.

I would love to get my hands on one of those that have priming problems, or indexing, case feeding problems just so i could see for myself if it's a QC issue or an TCFU issue (too complicated for user issue) i talked to a Lee rep trying to find out what the folks problems were and if indeed any of the presses were defective that they received for repair and he told me the problem was usually "someone new to reloading or someone unable to comprehend everything the press is doing at once so they never actually had everything properly adjusted".

fryboy

07-08-2012, 10:00 AM

but you CAN NOT compare the 550 to the loadmaster ( 4 stations vs. 5 ) and it's manually indexed , only the 650 applies here and it's quite a bit more than the 550 .... , it's bad enough trying to compare a yugo to a maserati , it was aptly stated before that speed cost ( how fast you wanna go ??? lolz )
i dont prime off the press nor am i in a hurry to load bukoo tons of ammo ( that's courtin' disaster IMHO ) i cant deny that neither loadmaster or dillon's offerings are for everyone , while they can train a monkey to fly a space capsule they cant teach it to think for it's self or anticipate what needs to be done when something doesnt go as planned
what gets me is why some have to blast what works for me ( whether or not it worked for them is irrelevant ) if it's working it's working , to be honest i've had far less of a learning curve using the pro-1000 yet i never see it compared to the dillon ( tho i may of missed that thread or something ) it's even cheaper than the loadmaster [gasp] and easier to use [double gasp] for large rifles it doesnt work but anything as short as a .223 it works well ( even better than that actually all things considered ) i'm thinking with gear's new adaptation it mite even handle longer cartridges , i myself sold a dillon and kept a pro-1000 , why ? ease , speed of caliber changes and yes cost factor , i recall a thread where some one here posted that they have a dillon and a loadmaster ... they used the loadmaster to size and deprime and then loaded the ammo on a dillon , part of the comments was so that they wouldnt get their dillon dirty ..oddly enough the loadmaster seemed to handle the dirt and kept on going ( granted it wasnt priming ) makes me wonder if it's of worked better IF they kept it as clean as their dillon
end result isnt quite comparing a shovel to a backhoe but it's dangerously close to the same lines , more money doesnt always equate better/best ( the collet neck sizing die is a perfect example of that as is the cheap decapping die ) if money is no object i think i'd just own a remington ammunition factory and not have to touch any of the parts :P ( well lapua may be a better thought but ... they arent very local ;) )

here's another wrench for you along the lines that cost equates quality , i have a jeep , it has a chevy made motor (woot) the chevy starter ? 39.99 , the same starter in a jeep labled box ? 129.99 ....does somehow paying more equate better ???? it's the same starter made by the same company :confused:

375RUGER

07-08-2012, 10:27 AM

I was going to say something here about comparing apples to apples and oranges, then I went to the lee site to see what the loadmaster was all about.
This is definately an apples to oranges comparison going on here.
If you are going to comare the loadmaster to anything then you should be comparing it to the square deal B.
Why?
Becasue the Loadmaster only accommodates 14 of the most common pistol calibers +.223
The Square Deal B accommodates 18 pistol calibers, but no .223.
The 550B accomodates approximately 200 pistol and rifle calibers. Hands down the most versatile loader on the market. You can load 1 at a time or load progressively, almost any rifle and pistol caliber.
So then I opened the link to the Pro1000, thinking it would be comparable to the 550B. It's a glorified loadmaster. With the exception that I when I opened the shellplate link and it shows shell plates for 7.62x39 and 30 carbine.
Lee does not have a progressive product that does any rifle caliber but these 3?

Did I miss it somewhere? I would think it would be on the lee site if it existed.

my information came from here:
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/progressive-presses/load-master-reloading-press/

sparky45

07-08-2012, 10:34 AM

Actually LEE, by inference, compares the Loadmaster with the 550b AND the 650. The Pro1000 is not a glorified Loadmaster, it's actually one of Lee's better loaders. It's what I started with and kinda wish I still had it. I do load developement with a Lee Challenger that has the inserts, also an excellent press. My go to loader for production is the Dillon 650.

375RUGER

07-08-2012, 10:48 AM

OK, maybe they do compare the Loadmaster to the 550B and 650 but I opened the accessory link from the loadmaster page and only saw explosion shields, primer systems, case feeder tubes, etc.

If it is comparable then where are the rifle accessories? Maybe I missed it somewhere.

fryboy

07-08-2012, 10:52 AM

the pro-1000 will load most pistol calibers and some rifle calibers ( .223 and 7.62x 39 are about it's limits ie; anything shorter is fine )
the loadmaster will load most rifle calibers altho to be fair many reloaders prefer to singly load rifle cartridges
both are progressive presses
the 550 while a progressive ( sorta ..) requires manual advancing
the 650 comes closest to the loadmaster but this again is the closest in comparison
the 550 IMHO is more akin to the auto indexing semi progessive turret press ( both have 4 stations ) if ran singly both require 4-5 pulls of the handle to get one loaded round , the 550 however once the shell plate is full will spit one out with every pull , the turret has a non-moving single shell holder whilst the 550 has a 4 station shell plate , the turret advances on the lee the shell plate on the dillon ( hey gear ? next mod a 4 station shell plate for the plain cast turret ?? lolz :kidding: )
in truth it boils down to what's best is is what's currently in your hand ( no matter who made it :P )

375RUGER

07-08-2012, 11:00 AM

OK. but where on the lee website does it say the Loadmaster will load rifle?

fryboy

07-08-2012, 11:06 AM

"All the features of the Pro 1000, designed for those that reload over 500 rounds per week and rifle calibers. A massive press with advanced features. Ram is 1 3/4" in diameter. Stroke and clearance sufficient for the largest magnum rifle cases. Load rifle and pistol rounds with equal ease. Five stations so you can factory crimp and post size. Every part of this tool was designed to be strong, long lasting, rust-resistant and user friendly. This machine is designed for a life-time of the hardest use.

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/progressive-presses/

a good hint is the shell plates they sell for each one , to be fair i wish they'd sell a #3 for the pro-1000 because my 30 herret would fit

pro-1000 shellplates

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/progressive-presses/progressive-press-accessories/pro-1000-shell-plate

loadmaster shell plates

http://leeprecision.com/reloading-presses/progressive-presses/progressive-press-accessories/load-master-shell-plate/

UNIQUEDOT

07-08-2012, 11:24 AM

OK. but where on the lee website does it say the Loadmaster will load rifle?

When they changed their site they left out a bunch of info (kinda like folks say they do with instruction manuals) here is how they list the shellplates on their site and even then they are not all included. What Lee tells you to do is order the same number shell plate as is on their shellholders (with a couple of exceptions).

Load-Master Shell Plate
Shell Plate #1s 38 Spl, 357 Mag., etc.
Shell Plate #2L 45 ACP, 30/06, 308, etc.
Shell Plate #3L 30/30, 7 x 30 Waters, etc.
Shell Plate #4s 223, 222, 380 Auto, etc.
Shell Plate #4A 32 S&W Long, 32 H&R Mag., etc.
Shell Plate #5L Belted Magnums, 300 Mag., 303 British, 30/40 Krag, etc.
Shell Plate #6s 32/20, 25/20, etc.
Shell Plate #7a 30 M1 Carbine, 32 ACP
Shell Plate #8L 45/70, 348 Win.
Shell Plate #9L 41 Magnum
Shell Plate #10L 220 Swift, 6.5 Jap.
Shell Plate #11L 44 Mag., 44 Spl., 45 Colt
Shell Plate #12L 7.62 x 39, 6mm PPC, 22 PPC, etc.
Shell Plate #14L 44/40, 38/40, 45 Colt, 460 S&W
Shell Plate #19s 9mm Luger, 40 S&W, 38 Super, etc.
Shell Plate #19L 10mm Auto
Shell Plate #20 22 Hornet

Or for a more complete caliber listing use the shell holder chart. The loadmaster will load the same calibers as the 550b.

375RUGER

07-08-2012, 11:47 AM

OK. You're right, I should have looked for a link like that(shell plate) under the general catagory of progressives instead of from the Loadmaster page.

So there is some comparison then to the 550B somewhat and to the 650.

You make an excellent point fryboy-"many reloaders prefer to singly load rifle cartridges "-which is exactly why I have a 550B. I don't have to screw dies in and out, I know all my dies are set and I don't have to mess with them. I can load progressively or single stage which I do a lot for my rifles.

I will allow that I saw on the Lee site that you can load through the Pro1000 1 at a time too, which is a good point for them to make, making the pro1000 more compareable to the 550B. Except like someone said above that it only handles the shorter/smaller rifle cases.

I mainly wanted to get to the bottom of what was actually comparable. I think you covered it pretty well fryboy.

I see the main comparison as being what's affordable and works for one person vs. another. And not so much that one is really better than another, they each have their strengths and weaknesses and in the end they get ammo loaded.
The Dillon is for some, the Lee is for some, the RCBS is for some...
The main thing is to get out and shoot.

Balduran

07-08-2012, 01:40 PM

UNIQUEDOT

07-08-2012, 01:49 PM

I would be interested in seeing the results of a test.
Five people who have never reloaded setting up and spitting out a thousand rounds on each of the progresses.
no clue on quality or value.
then give a report on the pros and cons.
That is a article i would read.
Jody

In a test like this the Dillon 550 would win every time. It's the simplest progressive press made. That is also why they say it's the most dependable progressive.

fryboy

07-08-2012, 02:02 PM

UNIQUEDOT

07-08-2012, 02:10 PM

IMHO ( and as stated before ) the 550 doesnt apply ... progressive means just that and that includes auto advancing ( which the 550 doesnt do ) hence why the lee turret is known as a semi progressive as opposed to a true progressive ( hmmm progressive .... does this mean that all non- progressive presses are conservative ?

I know that there have been printings in manuals stating that the 550b is not a true progressive press, but that is just false. The 550b has a shellplate that loads four rounds in progression and it doesn't matter if it's manually indexed or automatically indexed as the rounds are loaded in progression. The Lee auto advancing turret is not even a semi progressive press as the only thing progressing is the dies and it can't produce more than one round at a time. semi progressive is just something someone labeled the auto advance turret.

W.R.Buchanan

07-08-2012, 02:14 PM

Fry: Non Progressive presses are only conservative if the they oppose Obamacare!

In post #153 Uniquedot pretty much nails it. IN a blind test,,, "the 550 would win everytime."

A progressive press has the abilty to drop a loaded round with every pull of the handle. An auto indexing turret press requires a least 4 pulls to drop one round.

He got it right again in post #155

It doesn't matter how the progressive press indexes it still drops a finished round every pull of the handle. That's why it's progressive

Randy

fryboy

07-08-2012, 02:36 PM

so ... i'm just a motor that makes my single stage auto advance press progressive ? :P and the old straight line 2-3-4 station manually moved cartridge presses are now progressive hmmmmm ... by that thought even my lee load all is progressive as i can put in more than one shell at a time ... :kidding:

actually to the masses when they think of a true progressive press it's a loaded round for every pull of the handle ( never mind the first few that it takes to get the thing loaded as it's not progressive then .. ie; a switch hitter :P ) and all they have to do is feed projectiles and/or cases , when you add the word "manually" to the operation then progressive seems to lose credence [just sayin']
in contest between the 550 and the classic turret the 550 would win but in truth perhaps it's the true semi progressive and the lee just has a cool time/labor saving auto indexing feature not found on a umm semi progressive press

the fact remains that both presses are decent when properly used and the quality of ammo manufactured is basically identical leaving only time and money as the difference ( even tho that's not quite correct it's close enough ) if you're comparing the loadmaster to the 550 i want the loadmaster , if you're comparing it to the top of the line dillon ( as the loadmaster is lee's top of the line ) which would only be fair ,the xl1050 ,there is no comparison ( erm not counting price but eh it's only money anyways and i'd take the 1050 )
( thanx for that grin randy !! lolz i wont let mine vote so i may of never of known ;) )

UNIQUEDOT

07-08-2012, 02:48 PM

so ... i'm just a motor that makes my single stage auto advance press progressive ? :P and the old straight line 2-3-4 station manually moved cartridge presses are now progressive hmmmmm ... by that thought even my lee load all is progressive as i can put in more than one shell at a time ...

actually to the masses when they think of a true progressive press it's a loaded round for every pull of the handle ( never mind the first few that it takes to get the thing loaded as it's not progressive then .. ie; a switch hitter :P ) and all they have to do is feed projectiles and/or cases , when you add the word "manually" to the operation then progressive seems to lose credence [just sayin']
in contest between the 550 and the classic turret the 550 would win but in truth perhaps it's the true semi progressive and the lee just has a cool time/labor saving auto indexing feature not found on a umm semi progressive press

A semi progressive press is a press that drops a loaded round with each pull of the handle, but requires the powder measure and primer feeder as well as indexing to be manually operated. The 550 is a true progressive press regardless of the manual indexing. While i feel that i can probably load on my loadmaster faster than i could on a 550 simply because i am so used to the press DarwinT has a video where he loads 100 rounds in just over 6 and a half minutes while another guy has a video where he loads 100 rounds on a 550 in just over 5 minutes! so how much of a problem do you see with manual indexing not being progressive? you are already placing a bullet on the case with the 550 and you're indexing at the same time.

Alvarez Kelly

07-08-2012, 05:52 PM

Some people make a big deal out of manual indexing on the 550. Personally, I like it that way. If I feel, hear, or otherwise sense a problem, I stop. Nothing gets moved unless I move it. When loading, I index the shellplate with my left hand, then place a bullet on the belled case in one motion. While I am doing that, I insert a case in the shellplate to be decapped, sized, and primed on the next pull. It doesn't slow me down for a second.

Now, if I was using a bullet feeder and a case feeder, I could load much faster with an auto index press... I wish I hadn't sold my last Dillon 1050. :-)

zomby woof

07-08-2012, 06:15 PM

The 550 has a manual index??? No thanks.... How much is a 650 with case collator, primer feed and powder drop???

Loadmaster

sparky45

07-08-2012, 06:36 PM

The 550 has a manual index??? No thanks.... How much is a 650 with case collator, primer feed and powder drop???

Loadmaster

If you have to ask, then it's out of your price range. :kidding:

Alvarez Kelly

07-08-2012, 08:15 PM

The 550 has a manual index??? No thanks.... How much is a 650 with case collator, primer feed and powder drop???

Did you forget about the auto indexing Dillon Square Deal press? Very reasonably priced... And man do they work painlessly...

Idaho Sharpshooter

07-09-2012, 12:16 AM

I started IPSC about 1980. A friend and I split a Dillon in 45 acp. We kept every empty primer for six years, stored them in 3lb coffee cans. We had six full ones, and about half a seventh.

I currently have seven SDB's and two 550's. Two 550's allow me to keep one set up for small primers, and one for large.

I like the warranty, and the quality, and the simplicity/reliability.

Rich

Rule #1: if it ain't broke, you can't fix it. Sooooo, just keep using it until you figure out a way to break it, and then have someone who knows what he/she are doing fix it.

If it's a Dillon, you might not live that long...

375RUGER

07-09-2012, 11:30 AM

A 550B is a progressive press it however is not fully semi-automatic nor an automatic. All the presses discussed require manual intervention, they are only semi-automatic, pull the handle-a manual operation, place a boolit in the case mouth-a manual operation.

Some presses are nearly full automatic except for that pull the handle part. Most though are semi-automatic to some degree.

Is there a press out there that is produced for the masses that is a true full automatic requireing only casual observation from the lazyboy to make sure it doesn't have a hiccup?

I wish I had a factory at home (she's working another job right now) that was cranking out ammo while I'm here at the office slaving away.:coffee:

Now if we put a PLC or other microcontroller and a couple switches and a hyraulic/pneumatic acutator on a 1050 or a Hornady ammo plant, we'd just about be there. I'd be suprised if some hasn't already done this. I know some have put pneumatic actuators, but I don't know if they've gone as far to make the operation fully automatic.

I've got all the logic I need here at work, I just need someone around here to release some R&D funds to get 'er dun.

UNIQUEDOT

07-09-2012, 12:02 PM

375RUGER, you mean something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72JN8AxWfCU

375RUGER

07-09-2012, 12:18 PM

exactly. I figured someone had done it.
push a button and walk away.

UNIQUEDOT

07-09-2012, 12:43 PM

exactly. I figured someone had done it.
push a button and walk away.

I saw another video from a gun club that sold reloaded ammo if i remember correctly and they had a room full of Dillon 1050's with Ponsness Warren auto drives just cranking out ammo. There were several employees or club members just walking around watching the machines making sure they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.

W.R.Buchanan

07-10-2012, 11:08 PM

Go here to see Dillon presses in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oMnQsJZr58

Note: the fully automated ones running with electric motor drives.

If you really want to pump out some ammo this is the most economical way to do it,

the step up from here is about a $30K jump to an Ammomaster.

Randy

Lizard333

07-11-2012, 08:12 AM

unclebill

07-11-2012, 08:29 AM

bubbapug1

07-13-2012, 07:00 PM

I have owned both the 550 and the 650. I prefer the manual index. With the 650 your committed to the complete stroke, even if it means trashing a load. You can at least back out with the 550 and save the brass/load, saving components. Indexing yourself becomes second nature.

With primer tubes loaded and ready to go I can do 600+ rounds an hour on my 550.

This is almost exactly my experiance with between my Dillon 650 and 550. Every once in a while I do rip off 600 an hour on the 650 but I average just about the same on the 650 as my 550....350 rounds per hour.

The 650 is however a much more robust machine and easier to do 357 and 44 mag on than a 550.

I think the ultimate machine would be a 550 with a case feeded for a hobbiest reloader.

I have had two items from Lee...they were both sub standard in the long run.

UNIQUEDOT

07-13-2012, 09:01 PM

I think the ultimate machine would be a 550 with a case feeded for a hobbiest reloader.

They already have a case feeder for the 550 so i think what would be ultimate reloader would be a model 600...you know a 5 station version of the 550.

Lloyd Smale

07-14-2012, 05:39 AM

Ive loaded with a 550 using a case feeder and dont really see where it was alot faster. You still have to manualy index and it doesnt take but a split second when your in the grove to drop a case on the plate. On a 550 it also blocks the station enough that you cant really set them on by hand if you want to. thats one adavantage to the lnl. Its very easy to disable the case feeder and feed them manualy. If i was going to want a case feeder id step up to a 650. there designed right out of the gate to use a case feeder. What i allways thought would be cool is a square deal with a case feeder. It would be hands down faster then even a 1050 with its short stroke. Its probably why dillon doesnt do it. It would cut into the sale of 650s and 1050s to badly.

bubbapug1

07-15-2012, 12:09 AM

garym1a2

07-17-2012, 07:56 PM

Anyone think the loadmaster is better than the Dillon 550B I will offer my loadmaster in trade and even spot you $100.

so ... i'm just a motor that makes my single stage auto advance press progressive ? :P and the old straight line 2-3-4 station manually moved cartridge presses are now progressive hmmmmm ... by that thought even my lee load all is progressive as i can put in more than one shell at a time ... :kidding:

actually to the masses when they think of a true progressive press it's a loaded round for every pull of the handle ( never mind the first few that it takes to get the thing loaded as it's not progressive then .. ie; a switch hitter :P ) and all they have to do is feed projectiles and/or cases , when you add the word "manually" to the operation then progressive seems to lose credence [just sayin']
in contest between the 550 and the classic turret the 550 would win but in truth perhaps it's the true semi progressive and the lee just has a cool time/labor saving auto indexing feature not found on a umm semi progressive press

the fact remains that both presses are decent when properly used and the quality of ammo manufactured is basically identical leaving only time and money as the difference ( even tho that's not quite correct it's close enough ) if you're comparing the loadmaster to the 550 i want the loadmaster , if you're comparing it to the top of the line dillon ( as the loadmaster is lee's top of the line ) which would only be fair ,the xl1050 ,there is no comparison ( erm not counting price but eh it's only money anyways and i'd take the 1050 )
( thanx for that grin randy !! lolz i wont let mine vote so i may of never of known ;) )

Longwood

07-17-2012, 08:25 PM

Anyone think the loadmaster is better than the Dillon 550B I will offer my loadmaster in trade and even spot you $100.

I bid $50 more but I keep my good (different color) powder measure.

BossHoss

07-19-2012, 06:44 AM

I have a 650....I like the 550 better, the 650 is nightmare to clear a jam from. I don't like the wheeled primer feed either, every empty stroke results in a primer droppind down the re=use chute. Eventualy they need to be re-fed into the tube...

It all adds up to lost time. Maybe if you have perfect brass you can get hgiher speeds, but throw in a few small primer 45's or a 380 while reloading 9mm once in a while and the whoel process comes to a messy halt.

THat's why sorting and inspecting your brass BEFORE adding to the hopper is important.

zero sum equiv. YOU, when manually feeding inspect/reject bad/incorrect brass...each and every time you touch one, right?

So, since you are already doing it, do it BEFORE you dump them into the hopper. Spray a little One-Shot on them ...no brass jams.

The wheeled primer feed...I had some problems...all related to burrs on the shellplate...it must be burr free on the bottom, and tri-flow lubed. no more problems.

THe 650 is the step up to more meticulous prep of all components. The reward is consistency, speed, hassle free loading.

The time needed for prep is equal to same time needed elsewhere on other presses.

That said, I had a pile of mistakes (jammed primers), 380 stuck in 45, etc, until I got serious, then perfection. I made more mistakes in two days on my Dillon 650 than I had made in 25 years of RCBS PiggyBack loading..total.

I had to change my ways, and now perfection .

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 09:29 AM

I got the 550b from Brian and got it set up. The instructions left much to be desired but I watched some youtube videos and got lined out on where everything goes and how it works. I wanted to load up some stuff that I can try at the range, but I don't have a .223 which is the caliber that the press came set up with. I got online and checked out Dillon precision and saw that they want $45 for a caliber conversion kit consisting of a simple shell plate, a powder through expander for the powder measure, and three little buttons to keep the brass in the plate as it is indexed. $45 is about 50% of what I would charge to make one from scratch with manual machinery.
Since I already had the .223/5.56 plate, I made some measurements and recreated shell plates for 30-30, .308, 45ACP, and 38spc. Once I got a fixture made, they were very easy to produce, and I honestly think they are charging way too much for these parts that they are cranking out with CNCs.
I got the press set up for 45ACP (including an "M" die style powder through die) and I cranked out 200 45s in short order. All in all, pretty sweet.
Then I made about 50 308Win.
Again smooth and consistent.
In my opinion, Dillon is not much better than Lee except for the design of the primer feeder, which rocks. Other than that important part, the press frame is made of aluminum (possibly magnesium?) and most of the components are die-cast aluminum.
By all means, a superior design, but for the price, I expected to see a lot more machined steel parts and overbuilt construction.
I guess what I'm saying is that I see no reason why the Dillon press should cost so much more than the Lee, but this is perhaps offset by the fact that if you can pony up the coin to buy it, Dillon will replace any part that breaks in short order. If Lee ever gets their primer feed system to work as well as the Dillon, then I think Dillon is going to be in trouble.
I also have to admit that the Dillon has it where it counts, and like has been mentioned, it has the "feel" which is quite nice.
The Dillon is very reliable and seems to be quite intuitive once you get the hang of how they think.
I do like it though, and I think I'm going to buy it from Brian.
I don't mean any offense by this post, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity to "try before I buy", I just wanted to give my honest impressions of the press as a service to folks that might be on the fence like I was.
Basically, it comes down to what you hold in highest regard:
If you value reliability and customer service for a higher price, then Dillon is the press that you need, because it has those things in spades.
If you cannot justify reloading unless you can stay under a certain budget, irregardless of the time you spend maintaining your machinery and fidgeting with the equipment, then Lee is definitely the way to go, because it will get you 95% of the way there, and it is less expensive to change calibers for. Its not worse, its just geared for a different customer base.
Since I have aspirations of possibly loading ammunition for people, and the Dillon is siting on my bench and set up for 10 calibers, I would be crazy not to buy it.

pastor

07-19-2012, 10:00 AM

hey Goodsteel, if you start making caliber conversions fro 50% of Dillon's price send me a PM I have a few calibers I would like to buy for

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 10:14 AM

I said that Dillon is making them for 50% of what I can make them for. Ie my cost would be twice what Dillon's is on a one at a time basis. If I were making 150 of them, I could easily beat their rates, especially with CNC equipment which I do not have. As it is, I made 10 of them and just modified each one for each caliber. Took me two hours each for the shell plates, and about 30 minutes each for the buttons and the funnel. Made a lot of sense for me because the milling machine is 180 degrees from the reloading bench, and I happened to have material the right size. Anyway, it worked out nicely, and I saved myself $500 at the expense of some shop time, especially because I was only trying the machine on for size.

pastor

07-19-2012, 10:29 AM

thats kind of what i thought, never hurts to ask, lol

375RUGER

07-19-2012, 10:58 AM

hey Goodsteel, if you start making caliber conversions fro 50% of Dillon's price send me a PM I have a few calibers I would like to buy for

Wouldn't we all. I wish that was the case. I don't really have an issue with the price of the conversion but when I have to add the cost of dies to that--well some low volume calibers I just load single stage, for now.

Goodsteel,
you would have a .223 if you had done that barrel stub project. [smilie=1:

I got the parts yesterday and everything is just dandy, as usual. Thank you.

/\ /\ /\free advertising/\ /\ /\

r1kk1

07-19-2012, 11:37 AM

I've had my 550 since around the late 80s. Some shellplates can be used for different cartridges by just changing the buttons. Over the years I haven't had any problems with it other than a bad powder measure casting had a crack in it. They sent a new one.

One thing to keep in mind is equipment is paid off very quickly when compared to buying factory cartridges. 38-40, 44-40, etc. pay things off quickly. I am ignorant of the cost of factory ammo as every time I find a box of the stuff, my eyes glaze over with the price! A dollar a round for the last box of 38-40 I seen. Wow! I don't fret over the cost of equipment or tools. No reason to.

I don't understand the tinkering aspect. I don't remember having bought some Lee stuff in the 70s through today that I had to tinker with. If it doesn't work as intended, send it back to the manufacturer. If not resolved, get your money back. Is tinkering acceptable practice? When I'm tinkering, I'm actually reloading, not trying to get equipment to work for me. What is happening? I've had stuff over the years fall through the QC cracks from everyone, but they resolve the issue by either fixing it or refunding my money and I don't feel forced to accept it or have to make excuses for it.

I'm not picking on any manufacturer. Reloading has NOT saved me a dime. I just shoot more. I shoot stuff factory doesn't make ammo for anymore. I shoot wildcats. I just load and shoot.

Dillon is Dillon. Plain and simple.
Hornady has the LNL system and it seems to pay off in spades. Good deal.
It seems as the general concensus that the pro 1000 is a better press than the loadmaster.

I would love to try out the LNL system on a single stage. My Champion has an oddball bushing that does not allow this. I would not trade my old single stage for the world.

The roller handle and strong mount that I added to my 550 have been great. Regardless of whatever press you buy, mount it solid. Priming and powder issues seem to resolve themselves. Keep things clean and maintained and it will give a person years of wonderful service as intended.

Reloading tools are a personal thing. I appreciate the feel of a well made tool. I appreciate the years of service that I have received. If my 550 did not live up to my expectations than it would be down the road, no matter who's name is on the press. Plain and simple.

r1kk1

Idaho Sharpshooter

07-19-2012, 01:08 PM

It's a matter of preference, plain and simple. And perception.

To me, all of the Lee products look cheesy. But, that's just my perception.

I have yet to have any issues with either my SDB's or my 550B's.

We all know Rule #1 on mechanical things: If it ain't broke, you can't fix it. So just use and enjoy it until you break something on it. Then let someone who knows what they are doing fix it right.

Rich

W.R.Buchanan

07-19-2012, 01:25 PM

Tim: It's good to hear we have arrived at the correct answer. The further you get into this machine the more you will appreciate its attributes.

You mentioned the "Feel" which I mentioned in one of my posts, Its like the difference between running a Hardinge lathe and a Craftsman lathe. ONe just feels better.

You mentioned that you needed to load .45 ACP, and you have probably figured out that the .45 ACP is nothing more than a cutoff.30-06 case, so the shell plate will work for that and many others.

Since you are making parts you'll need to make the die plates as well. They're not too hard.

You done good.

Randy

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 03:50 PM

Yeah, Brian is a heck of a guy. I can't believe he did this for me.

UNIQUEDOT

07-19-2012, 04:05 PM

It seems as the general concensus that the pro 1000 is a better press than the loadmaster.

Well i can tell you that it isn't. It's not even close to being as good as the loadmaster. The problem with the loadmaster is the case feeder is more complicated and people don't understand how to follow the instructions to adjust it. I think if Lee sold the press without the case feeder you would see more posts claiming the press works great, but they couldn't get the optional case feeder to work. It's actually quite simple, but there are far too many folks not capable of understanding or following instructions... then there are simply those folks that can break a steel ball bearing with a rubber mallet.

Casting_40S&W

07-19-2012, 04:26 PM

Does the 550 Auto Index?

garym1a2

07-19-2012, 04:26 PM

The loadmaster case feeder is a piece of cake to get to work. The primer feeder is the problem. its design is very poor.

Well i can tell you that it isn't. It's not even close to being as good as the loadmaster. The problem with the loadmaster is the case feeder is more complicated and people don't understand how to follow the instructions to adjust it. I think if Lee sold the press without the case feeder you would see more posts claiming the press works great, but they couldn't get the optional case feeder to work. It's actually quite simple, but there are far too many folks not capable of understanding or following instructions... then there are simply those folks that can break a steel ball bearing with a rubber mallet.

garym1a2

07-19-2012, 04:27 PM

NO it does not.

Does the 550 Auto Index?

Longwood

07-19-2012, 04:51 PM

The problem with the loadmaster is the case feeder is more complicated and people don't understand how to follow the instructions to adjust it.

I found the case feeder to be quite simple.
I found the primer feeder to be quite simple but very problematic.
I think a poorly build bench is a good idea if trying to get a Loadmadaster to prime reliably.

A poorly built bench or a press that is not bolted down tight would let everything rattle and shake which would probably help the primer feeder to function properly.

My Loadmaster works great,,,, now.
I tossed the measure the bullet feeder and the primer mess.
Bought a decent primer system (RCBS APS ) replaced the measure with a RCBS with a Hornady automatic case operator, and I never have issues.
I am in the process of making my Little Dandy measure fit it also (also automatic) for either a primer boost charge of smokeless with slow surplus powders or for a Cream of Wheat filler in some 45-70 rounds. I will even have room for a powder check and taper crimp die.

UNIQUEDOT

07-19-2012, 05:42 PM

The loadmaster case feeder is a piece of cake to get to work. The primer feeder is the problem. its design is very poor.

The primer feeder works as advertised on the loadmaster. It's design is ingenious, but the materials could be better.

A poorly built bench or a press that is not bolted down tight would let everything rattle and shake which would probably help the primer feeder to function properly.

The primer feeder is designed to shake on the loadmaster, and shake it does.

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 05:58 PM

The 550 does not auto index, but it is so easy to use, and tune for your personal touch that I don't see it costing time in the loading process. Every time the press has to stop, kills the load rate. My buddies Loadmaster messes up about 1% of the primers in a batch. He just cranks out several hundred and inspects them afterwards for flaws. The big thing that I found was different about operating the Dillon is that you don't have to be checking several things for function throughout every stroke. With the Dillon, all I had to be concerned with was the alignment of the cartridges as they were pressed into the upper stroke, and that was able to be "felt for" and adjustments were made on the fly. The indexing of the shell plate is like snapping your fingers in slow motion, very intuitive.
Nearly all of the problems I encountered over the last few days had to do with the fact that I am using military brass. In fact the only issue I had with the press that I could not take credit for, was when I tried to load Federal premium primers in the pickup tube. For some reason, they wouldn't slide up the tube, and several messes were made. However, they did slide down the feed tube quite nicely. Still have to figure that one out.

375RUGER

07-19-2012, 06:10 PM

Longwood

07-19-2012, 06:19 PM

The primer feeder works as advertised on the loadmaster. It's design is ingenious, but the materials could be better.

The primer feeder is designed to shake on the loadmaster, and shake it does.

Mine lies quiet,,,, in a box on the shelf.

r1kk1

07-19-2012, 06:21 PM

It might be the primer tube. I got some from dillon that did the same thing.
You might contact Dillon and see what they say. They might replace the tube.
They might just say don't use Feds.
But it don't hurt to call.

They will replaced the tube. I use Feds. I do pull the ends off and rinse in soapy water.

Take care

r1kk1

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 08:59 PM

They will replaced the tube. I use Feds. I do pull the ends off and rinse in soapy water.
Will they replace it even though I bought it second hand?
That's the burning question in my mind right now. Do they warranty their equipment to the original owner only, or do they warranty their equipment to anybody that buys it? I will call tomorrow and find out for sure.

LUBEDUDE

07-19-2012, 09:04 PM

Reloading tools are a personal thing. I appreciate the feel of a well made tool. .
r1kk1

Kind if sums things up between the "color" wars.

LUBEDUDE

07-19-2012, 09:10 PM

It's a matter of preference, plain and simple. And perception.

To me, all of the Lee products look cheesy. But, that's just my perception.

I have yet to have any issues with either my SDB's or my 550B's.

Rich

I have to agree with most of this comment. Except to me, the SDB LOOKS like something Lee would put out.

Sorry, I just like Beef. No beef in a SDB.

However, the more and more I read about how much so many guys love these SDBs, if I can find a used one at a good price, I just may experiment with one.

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 09:14 PM

I saw a youtube video of a guy cranking out 45s with a SDB strapped to some sort of a board, or rickety "bench" of some sort. Crazy how fast that sucker can crank out the ammo.

pastor

07-19-2012, 09:39 PM

The warranty from Dillon is good for the equipment no matter what number owner you happen to be, whether your the 2nd or the 25th they will stand behind their loading equipment if it fails

Longwood

07-19-2012, 09:56 PM

I saw a youtube video of a guy cranking out 45s with a SDB strapped to some sort of a board, or rickety "bench" of some sort. Crazy how fast that sucker can crank out the ammo.

I can make my video's run fast or run slow.
I can stop it and restart it and edit it until I can fool some into believing I am loading fast on a single stage. Even free editing programs will do it...
I can take a bad video then make it look great.
That is why it amazes me that there is so much un-edited garbage on you tube.:bigsmyl2:

Duuhhh! What is a SDB?

MBTcustom

07-19-2012, 10:01 PM

Dillon Square Deal B?

Longwood

07-19-2012, 10:07 PM

Dillon Square Deal B?

Thanks Tim,,,
I still have a few thousand acronyms to memorize.

W.R.Buchanan

07-19-2012, 11:54 PM

Tim: Don't tell them it is second hand just tell them whats wrong.

Both my SDB's are second hand and I bought one off Ebay and one off Brian, Dillon sent me small parts for both N/C.

As far as those SDB's go They may look rickety to some but I assure you guys they are one of the best designed machines of any type I have ever seen, and they feel solid and extremely smooth to operate.

NOne of these outfits have slouches for engineers. I personally think Dillon's Engineers are among the best in any business, and that Gatling gun they make is designed by the same guys that designed the loading machines so they get my vote for the best..

Tim: the unpainted parts on the loaders are pressure cast in a permanent mould out of aluminum. This is NOT die casting and you'll notice there are no voids in these castings.

The Main Frame is cast from aluminum also and not magnausium. It's too expensive to make stuff like this out of, plus there's that pesky tendency to burn white hot that would be considered a negative around gun powder..:grin:

Randy

MBTcustom

07-20-2012, 05:59 AM

Tim: the unpainted parts on the loaders are pressure cast in a permanent mould out of aluminum. This is NOT die casting and you'll notice there are no voids in these castings.
Now Randy, I'm not the sharpest tack in the drawer, but isn't "pressure cast in a permanent mould" kind of a definition of "die casting"? Its better than sand casting, and any foundry worth their salt will not have voids in the castings, but its still a cheap casting and not as strong or expensive a machined part, and I have noticed no voids in Lee equipment either, but it too is all made from cast metal.

The Main Frame is cast from aluminum also and not magnausium. It's too expensive to make stuff like this out of, plus there's that pesky tendency to burn white hot that would be considered a negative around gun powder..
OK OK myth is official busted. I heard somewhere that Dillon used magnesium or magnesium-aluminum on their press frames. I considered this a real possibility given the physical characteristics of that metal. As far as its ability to burn being a negative? Ummmm yeah, when its subjected to extreme heat and sparks, but in a reloading situation, if you have the environment present that is able to ignite a solid magnesium casting, then you don't need to have powder and primers anywhere near it, as those things are more dangerous/flammable/unstable than a solid magnesium casting ever thought about being. Furthermore, It bears mentioning that you can burn almost any metal given the right circumstances. Titanium shavings, for instance, burns with an intense white light. An easy fire starter is to take a 9v battery and stroke the terminals on a piece of steel wool. (be careful when trying this! It does work very well, and should only be tried in a safe place away from the reloading bench!)

garym1a2

07-20-2012, 06:35 AM

Castings are strong enough for car motors, reloading presses do not have enough force on them to require machined steel unless you do something wrong.

375RUGER

07-20-2012, 10:16 AM

you know those magnesium fire starter blocks? put a flame to one and tell me if it burns. it doesn't. When you shave the block into little bitty pieces, increasing the surface area in relation to the volume of material, then you have magnesium that will burn.
Magnesium is difficult(not impossible) to ignite in mass form but hard to stop once you get it started.
It is a wonderful, lightweight structural material to build with. One of Halliburton's cement pump trucks has magnesium alloy wheels in order to reduce the overall weight enough to make it highway legal.

MBTcustom

07-20-2012, 11:35 AM

Castings are strong enough for car motors, reloading presses do not have enough force on them to require machined steel unless you do something wrong.
And yet, when buying a single stage press everybody insists on RCBS or some other cast iron frame rig while poo-pooing the Lee single stage press?
I am aware that the press does not need to be that strong, but when I pay premium price for a piece of machinery and it is made entirely out of cast aluminum, I have to wonder why. Its a premium piece of machinery. I expect the parts to be made of the material they are because they work better when they are made of that material. Why is the sliding part of the Dilon powder measure made of cast aluminum? I know it will wear out eventually if I am cutting stick powder with it all the time. I'm not saying that it isn't a sweet press, but I can tell when things are made to cut cost, and Dillon is doing the same thing that Lee is doing, only better: They overcome cheap materials with ingenious design.
All I'm saying is that for the price, I expected an iron press, with machined aluminum die blocks and a powder measure with steel workings. With the Dillon, these parts are all made of cast aluminum, but, their customer service covers a multitude of sins.

r1kk1

07-20-2012, 12:30 PM

My opinion. There are different types of Al alloys. A progressive machine should not be the only press on a bench. A good single stage press is extremely useful for many tasks that a progressive is not called upon. I have a press on my bench that is said to be 40x more than is needed to reload. I will let you know is it needs to be 41x.

Take care

r1kk1

W.R.Buchanan

07-20-2012, 01:03 PM

Tim: Die Casting is similar to pressure casting in that the part is cast in a mould that is permanent but die casting usually uses a metal alloy that is mixed to flow well as opposed to mixed for strength. You've heard of Pot metal? Well that's what the use in diecasting. It has a lot of zinc in it which like tin in our lead concoctions promotes flowing. Also it is usually done by gravity feed, hence the need to flow easily to fill all the nooks and crannys . It can be done by pressure also but it is not the smae pressure as Pressure casting.

Pressure casting is used when the part is so complicated that gravity wouldn't fill the mould completely, and the pressures are much higher with this process.

As far as the strength of the casting used in the main body of the Dillon presses,,, You have to look at the usage. It all about what is needed to do the job. There is no significant difference in the cost of casting aluminum vs cast iron. There is a difference in machining it afterwards. Strength-wise they are similar depending on which alloys we are taliking about. Regular 356 cast aluminum is around 35K psi, cast iron is around 65K psi, and 7075 aluminum is @76K psi. But if you don't need 60K psi then why use that material?

I would submit that the big Lee cast iron press could just as easiy be made of cast aluminum and do just as good a job. The design is inherantly strong as it is.

Also when making complicated parts good quality castings are far more cost effective than machining from bar stock.

I have a friend that runs Advance Adapters. They make adapters to adapt this engine to that transmission, and are very big in the world of Jeeps. They sell a bunch of different parts and most all of them are castings. When you are talking 1000's of parts casting is definately the way to go both cost wise and man hour per part wise.

Picking the right material for a given job is what it's all about.

Randy