Swiss or Olde Eynsford users?

[ofitg]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver? Thanks in advance

[rodwha]

I have not seen any chronographed results for a .36 cal revolver. What I have seen from .44 cals is an increase of 35-37% compared to Schuetzen which is similar enough to Goex.

[RogerDat]

I have not seen any chronographed results for a .36 cal revolver. What I have seen from .44 cals is an increase of 35-37% compared to Schuetzen which is similar enough to Goex. Really? That much is pretty impressive. Wish there was a place I could get a pound or so without the heavy hazmat fee to try in a 44 C&B

[rodwha]

Really? That much is pretty impressive. Wish there was a place I could get a pound or so without the heavy hazmat fee to try in a 44 C&B

Indeed. Swiss and Olde E give slightly higher velocities than T7 according to the few results posted. According to Hogdgon there was a 15% reduction needed (rifles only?) to replicate the velocity of BP, but that was before Swiss was well known here and Olde E was made. In a ROA we see that even a 15% reduced charge blows the doors off of standard Goex:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_dwo2nThA

Cross posting forum links is typically frowned upon so I’ll ask if a fellow who tested several powders through his gun if it’s ok to take a screen shot and post it here.

[rodwha]

Oh, and I dug through my 2nd edition Lyman’s handbook and found the velocity for an20 grn charge of 3F Goex with a ball. 750 fps. If the ~36% increase holds true that would give a velocity close to 1020 fps.

[John Boy]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver?
With a 70gr ball in a 36 caliber revolver using 20gr of FFFg, the muzzle velocity is 685 fps
* 15gr = 640 fps
* 22gr = 710 fps

[rodwha]

With a 70gr ball in a 36 caliber revolver using 20gr of FFFg, the muzzle velocity is 685 fps
* 15gr = 640 fps
* 22gr = 710 fps

What brand of powder were you using?

[rodwha]

I was given the OK to share his info here. These are the screenshots that give the info:

https://s17.postimg.org/vetta7orj/A71621_E8-_D41_E-48_D2-8_EB4-04_EEC726_DCA9.png (https://postimg.org/image/9sest6q6z/)


https://s17.postimg.org/68sv3dfrj/3942_BB54-_F331-4490-9814-46_C274440_F34.png (https://postimg.org/image/dc0qizl6z/)

[ofitg]

Thanks, Rodwha, those are interesting numbers.

[swathdiver]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver? Thanks in advance

I know they go supersonic but have yet to chronograph. Trying to find a place that will let us city folk do a water jug penetration test.

[indian joe]

I have not seen any chronographed results for a .36 cal revolver. What I have seen from .44 cals is an increase of 35-37% compared to Schuetzen which is similar enough to Goex.

Rodwha
Has Goex slipped that much over the years that it only equals schutzen ??? (Wano)
We have Wano - Old Goex - Swiss
Chrono puts the goex about plumb in the middle - but the Goex is 1990's vintage - before the Moosic plant blew up
(Goex 5FA vs Wano PPP in my 44/40 rifle I get 1180FPS vs 1030FPS - 36 grains WEIGHT of each under a 225 grain lead)

[rodwha]

Rodwha
Has Goex slipped that much over the years that it only equals schutzen ??? (Wano)
We have Wano - Old Goex - Swiss
Chrono puts the goex about plumb in the middle - but the Goex is 1990's vintage - before the Moosic plant blew up
(Goex 5FA vs Wano PPP in my 44/40 rifle I get 1180FPS vs 1030FPS - 36 grains WEIGHT of each under a 225 grain lead)

It would seem so. I’ve yet to see anything that showed otherwise. Here’s a little bit more chronographed results:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

You can see some of the .36 cal results using Pyrodex went supersonic. Granted the numbers seem a bit off as my understanding is that only about 30 grns fits under a ball in a Navy, but then Pyrodex compresses more than BP and powder measures throw various volumes (my rifle measure set at 30 grns drops a weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E).

When I first got my ROA I looked at it and thought how it was just about the same size as a .45 Colt and began asking questions about using it for hunting. The replies of nearly everyone, especially on traditional forums, was that fully loaded it performed on par with a .38 Spl and wasn’t humane. And the chronographed results anything but Swiss, Olde E, or T7 do indeed show this to be true. Using those powders one can surpass the modern standard .45 Colt performance (~400-450 ft/lbs) when using a bullet.

[Boz330]

It would seem so. I’ve yet to see anything that showed otherwise. Here’s a little bit more chronographed results:

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

You can see some of the .36 cal results using Pyrodex went supersonic. Granted the numbers seem a bit off as my understanding is that only about 30 grns fits under a ball in a Navy, but then Pyrodex compresses more than BP and powder measures throw various volumes (my rifle measure set at 30 grns drops a weighed 33 grns of 3F Olde E).

When I first got my ROA I looked at it and thought how it was just about the same size as a .45 Colt and began asking questions about using it for hunting. The replies of nearly everyone, especially on traditional forums, was that fully loaded it performed on par with a .38 Spl and wasn’t humane. And the chronographed results anything but Swiss, Olde E, or T7 do indeed show this to be true. Using those powders one can surpass the modern standard .45 Colt performance (~400-450 ft/lbs) when using a bullet.

The way I understand it the powder measures are set up for 2F powder so 33gr would be about right for the denser powders like Swiss and OE. Personally I have never fooled with T-7. Back when I was guiding elk hunters in NM, I had a hunter take an elk with a Knight .52 with a Barnes 375gr 45cal bullet in a Sabot and T-7. The bullet went through the elk and left a fist sized exit wound. He claimed the load was making over 2000fps which sounded high as hell to me but the results were sure impressive and the elk made it about 10 yrds before going down.

Bob

[rodwha]

Being a rifle measure it no doubt is designed with 2F in mind, but all powders weigh differently as I showed above with the screenshots. From that we see that 30 grns measured weighed 23.8 grns with Olde E but weighed 28.2 grns with Schuetzen (Grafs). With the weight difference my 30 grn measure using Grafs would likely weigh 39 grns. So it certainly depends on which powder you are measuring, and Swiss and Olde E don’t seem nearly as common as other powders.

I began with Pyrodex as my father gave me several pounds. However from what little chronographed results I found early on showed it was just a little bit faster than standard Goex, and I hated the fouling it left on my revolvers (some results show it comparable to Swiss). T7 was the only powder I could find locally that would give me sufficient power from my revolvers so it’s what I bought. But once gun accessories became hard to find it forced me online and I found Olde E (and Swiss) and decided to try the real deal that was also cheaper. It seems to perform equally well, though people say T7 is finicky. Can’t say I’ve noticed that and I seat my projectiles quite firmly. I still buy a little T7 but I mostly buy Olde E.

Oh, I forgot to mention that with as old as my measure is it’s more likely to be regulated for standard Goex as Swiss wasn’t really a thing here yet, and Olde E was decades to come.

[indian joe]

Being a rifle measure it no doubt is designed with 2F in mind, but all powders weigh differently as I showed above with the screenshots. From that we see that 30 grns measured weighed 23.8 grns with Olde E but weighed 28.2 grns with Schuetzen (Grafs). With the weight difference my 30 grn measure using Grafs would likely weigh 39 grns. So it certainly depends on which powder you are measuring, and Swiss and Olde E don’t seem nearly as common as other powders.

I began with Pyrodex as my father gave me several pounds. However from what little chronographed results I found early on showed it was just a little bit faster than standard Goex, and I hated the fouling it left on my revolvers (some results show it comparable to Swiss). T7 was the only powder I could find locally that would give me sufficient power from my revolvers so it’s what I bought. But once gun accessories became hard to find it forced me online and I found Olde E (and Swiss) and decided to try the real deal that was also cheaper. It seems to perform equally well, though people say T7 is finicky. Can’t say I’ve noticed that and I seat my projectiles quite firmly. I still buy a little T7 but I mostly buy Olde E.

Oh, I forgot to mention that with as old as my measure is it’s more likely to be regulated for standard Goex as Swiss wasn’t really a thing here yet, and Olde E was decades to come.

AHHH - all of my comparisons are done with weighed charges - grains weight on a quality balance scale - (because of what you say above - there is almost always some difference in bulk density between brands) - I figure we buy it by the pound we test it by weight - so - 60 grains of Wano - 60 grains of Swiss - its weighed charges to get a comparison. Volume is fine for charging a gun but its not a fair comparison across brands.

[GoexBlackhorn]

Some of us don't judge a powder brand by bullet speed. Accuracy, availability nearby, % of mess inside the bore and price matters too in the decision.

[rodwha]

Some of us don't judge a powder brand by bullet speed. Accuracy, availability nearby, % of mess inside the bore and price matters too in the decision.

It wouldn’t be quite the issue were it not for the small powder capacities revolvers deal with. For hunting applications it’s the difference between plenty humans and not quite humane. And I don’t care for the idea of carrying more than powder flask.

The accuracy and consistency seem to be fine, though I’ve never shot any other BP to compare it to. Online availability is just that as I can’t seem to find any BP near me now, much less what I want, and it’s been shown the fouling of these powders is less. Taking into consideration that these powders require less to achieve more its seems like a win all the way around to me, and that effects the price as well which I showed gave more revolver shots per pound at a cheaper price.

[rodwha]

AHHH - all of my comparisons are done with weighed charges - grains weight on a quality balance scale - (because of what you say above - there is almost always some difference in bulk density between brands) - I figure we buy it by the pound we test it by weight - so - 60 grains of Wano - 60 grains of Swiss - its weighed charges to get a comparison. Volume is fine for charging a gun but its not a fair comparison across brands.

I’m not familiar with the weight of Wano but I have seen that it gives similar enough velocities as the other standard powders. If the weight is similar as well than the same weight of Swiss would be that much greater as far as performance. Fouling might be closer as there’d be that much more powder in the charge.

[rodwha]

So I went back and got the cost of Grafs powder (rebranded Schuetzen) since it’s the one with the weight and velocity shown that I used in place of standard Goex, which isn’t exactly accurate as we don’t have a listed weight for it, and Graf’s powder is cheaper than standard Goex.

At $15.99/lb the cost per shot is a mere $0.064 per 30 grn volume of powder and is certainly cheaper than the others if bought from Grafs.

[rfd]

if i was into cap guns, most any brand of powder would do me fine. but i only use flintlocks and that's where a better powder (swiss!) is really best, particularly since i use one horn of 3f for both tube and pan.

[rodwha]

if i was into cap guns, most any brand of powder would do me fine. but i only use flintlocks and that's where a better powder (swiss!) is really best, particularly since i use one horn of 3f for both tube and pan.

What makes it better in a flintlock vs a caplock?

[rfd]

it's all about what goes in the pan. swiss is just better, particularly if you don't wanna use a separate primer of 4f, and want it all to happen with a single 3f horn. plus, swiss just offers more horsepower and less fouling. of all the mass produced bp's, none are better than swiss. if ya can get it. getting any black powder is just going to get harder here in the USA ... signs of the times.

3f in the tube and pan, good ignition in a smoothie .62 bore ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRhHVGNbPws

[rodwha]

it's all about what goes in the pan. swiss is just better, particularly if you don't wanna use a separate primer of 4f, and want it all to happen with a single 3f horn. plus, swiss just offers more horsepower and less fouling. of all the mass produced bp's, none are better than swiss. if ya can get it. getting any black powder is just going to get harder here in the USA ... signs of the times.

Hmmm... On the traditional forum there are many who use standard powders and prime with 3F without issue. Can’t say I’ve read of this.

As to fouling who wouldn’t want one that leaves less?

And I get the horsepower issue as long as it’s a muzzleloading rifle or paper punching. It’s not a big deal there. But hunting with a handgun is another story for sure. But if I can use 15% less powder and get 35% more velocity I’m sold. And to use far less to achieve the same performance is how much powder and at what cost?

[rfd]

i have no problem pan priming with good ol' goex 2f, and have even gone down to 1-1/2f of goex. but for me, swiss 3f is just flat out Better, Faster, Cleaner. so i don't mind the swiss $$ up charge. yes, some are concerned with scales of economy, and that might be a compromise, and that's fine, it's about choices and the amount of discretionary pocketbook jingle.

[rodwha]

i have no problem pan priming with good ol' goex 2f, and have even gone down to 1-1/2f of goex. but for me, swiss 3f is just flat out Better, Faster, Cleaner. so i don't mind the swiss $$ up charge. yes, some are concerned with scales of economy, and that might be a compromise, and that's fine, it's about choices and the amount of discretionary pocketbook jingle.

No doubt.

Have you tried Olde Eynsford? Most people who have have switched. Only one who has compared it to Swiss wasn’t quite as happy but also noted it was close and far better than other powders he had tried. It certainly costs less, is likely to be more available in a store as it’s made by Goex, and supports American jobs.

I have not tried Swiss but figure I’ll have to one of these days. I’m not so sure I’d notice a difference with my offhand pistol shooting but maybe it would make a difference in my rifle. And using more energetic powders I’ve also considered trying 2F which would still well outpace the standard 3F powders and give suitable performance from my revolvers to feel comfortable hunting with them.

[rfd]

yes, i went through almost a pound of OE 3f in flintlock rifles and smoothbores, good stuff indeed, better than standard goex.

however, swiss still has an edge over OE, at least for me - no matter what lot number of swiss i use.

[rodwha]

yes, i went through almost a pound of OE 3f in flintlock rifles and smoothbores, good stuff indeed, better than standard goex.

however, swiss still has an edge over OE, at least for me - no matter what lot number of swiss i use.

Seems as though you were one/the one then who had tried both and still preferred Swiss. :bigsmyl2:

[rodwha]

Quite frankly I’d need to see a remarkable difference to switch to Swiss. As is I still need to work on an accurate load for my rifle as it’s merely just broken in now and I finally broke down and got spectacles. With a ball I wasn’t doing so well at 50 yds (3-4” groups) but then I was using Pyrodex and not adjusting powder charge (70 grns), patches, balls (I likely won’t and will stick to my .490” mold), or lubes (wife only allowed me to use her grape seed oil. Gave me a real mean look when I grabbed her olive oil and she asked why). Now the 320 grn REAL was another story with that powder charge with the few I tried.

[rfd]

lots might depend on the bp application - bpcr, flint or cap - then add in whatever subjective (objective?) personal opinions to the mix. with my trad ml rifles they're all slow twist patched balls, and the patched balls and shot loads for the smoothies - swiss 3f. for the bpcr rollers and sharps it's hands down swiss 1-1/2f. it's all good, they all go bang one way or t'other. ;)

[indian joe]

So I went back and got the cost of Grafs powder (rebranded Schuetzen) since it’s the one with the weight and velocity shown that I used in place of standard Goex, which isn’t exactly accurate as we don’t have a listed weight for it, and Graf’s powder is cheaper than standard Goex.

At $15.99/lb the cost per shot is a mere $0.064 per 30 grn volume of powder and is certainly cheaper than the others if bought from Grafs.

I looked at prices from Powder Inc -- dont know how old and I think they included ship and hazmat for 5 lb order - Swiss 34.70, Wano/scheutzen 29.75, Ole E 30.50, GoexFFF 29.10 ------at those prices I wouldnt even think about Wano - should be way more difference between it and Swiss I thought . All academic for me - we get the choice of Wano or Swiss - can buy Wano - per kilo - around $65 - $70 and Swiss high side of $100 (dont know exactly how high) - the split is $23 versus $37+ (per pound - your money) -- makes for a more choosey choice -

[rodwha]

At that price difference it does make a bigger difference. It’s rather outrageous and hard for me to understand how they can stay in business with prices as high as that. The price you show for Wano is nearly what Grafs sells Swiss for.

[Edward]

I looked at prices from Powder Inc -- dont know how old and I think they included ship and hazmat for 5 lb order - Swiss 34.70, Wano/scheutzen 29.75, Ole E 30.50, GoexFFF 29.10 ------at those prices I wouldnt even think about Wano - should be way more difference between it and Swiss I thought . All academic for me - we get the choice of Wano or Swiss - can buy Wano - per kilo - around $65 - $70 and Swiss high side of $100 (dont know exactly how high) - the split is $23 versus $37+ (per pound - your money) -- makes for a more choosey choice -

Fedex is delivering tuesday a case of OE 1 1/2 F /2F for the total sum of 497.50 from Powder inc /Nice folks ! Think that"s about $17.00 or so ,that"s pretty current pricing /Ed

[rodwha]

Fedex is delivering tuesday a case of OE 1 1/2 F /2F for the total sum of 497.50 from Powder inc /Nice folks ! Think that"s about $17.00 or so ,that"s pretty current pricing /Ed

I’m a bit curious what other powders (BP) you were well enough acquainted with that you’ve tried and how they compared.

[Edward]

I’m a bit curious what other powders (BP) you were well enough acquainted with that you’ve tried and how they compared.
This case is for my C Sharps 45/70, 15lbs 1 1/2F and 10 Lbs 2F . I shoot long (for me)750 yds across the street on club property and used O.E 2F and 3F when I ran out of 2Fall last year but never tried 1 1/2 F . Mostly P.P. with a Baco 443-530 Elliptical but just finished a bunch of Postell boolits for tomorrow if the sun ever comes out .O .E . seems to do a lot better than Goex for me and that is all the experience I have with BP in cartridge or muzzle loaders /Ed

[rodwha]

This case is for my C Sharps 45/70, 15lbs 1 1/2F and 10 Lbs 2F . I shoot long (for me)750 yds across the street on club property and used O.E 2F and 3F when I ran out of 2Fall last year but never tried 1 1/2 F . Mostly P.P. with a Baco 443-530 Elliptical but just finished a bunch of Postell boolits for tomorrow if the sun ever comes out .O .E . seems to do a lot better than Goex for me and that is all the experience I have with BP in cartridge or muzzle loaders /Ed

So why did you feel OE was better than standard Goex for you? What made it better?

My decision to forgo any other powders was the revolver performance. But I’ve seen responses from shooters a few times that claim what they get from standard Goex is excellent and not worth jacking with. And I get that to a degree when you figure what all they went through to find an accurate load. But would they have been happier had things worked out differently and ended up working with Swiss or Olde E? Many of these guys are older and began well before Swiss was readily available and Olde as was created.

[FrontierMuzzleloading]

OE, cleaner, higher velocity, excellent consistent SD between shots.

[Golfswithwolves]

Can any of you Swiss or OE users tell me what muzzle velocities you get with 20 grains of powder and round balls from a .36 revolver? Thanks in advance

Today I shot a cylinder-full each of Swiss 3F and GOEX 3F in my Colt's 1851 Navy. I used .375 balls with a Wonder Wad split in half thickness and a dab of 85/15 Crisco/beeswax UNDER each ball. I did not try 20 grains of powder as per the request but I did use 22 grains of each type of powder (my usual load, so I used it instead of 20 grains). The average velocity I got with the Swiss powder for the cylinder was 926.3 fps (925 in real life) on my chronograph and the average for the GOEX powder was 879.9 fps (880 in real life). I did not shoot at a target today but only shot for the chronograph. I hope this data is helpful; it does however only represent six shots of each load.

[rodwha]

Surprising data!

[ofitg]

Today I shot a cylinder-full each of Swiss 3F and GOEX 3F in my Colt's 1851 Navy. I used .375 balls with a Wonder Wad split in half thickness and a dab of 85/15 Crisco/beeswax UNDER each ball. I did not try 20 grains of powder as per the request but I did use 22 grains of each type of powder (my usual load, so I used it instead of 20 grains). The average velocity I got with the Swiss powder for the cylinder was 926.3 fps (925 in real life) on my chronograph and the average for the GOEX powder was 879.9 fps (880 in real life). I did not shoot at a target today but only shot for the chronograph. I hope this data is helpful; it does however only represent six shots of each load.

Thanks, that is excellent data.

[Surculus]

The average velocity I got with the Swiss powder for the cylinder was 926.3 fps (925 in real life) on my chronograph and the average for the GOEX powder was 879.9 fps (880 in real life). I did not shoot at a target today but only shot for the chronograph. I hope this data is helpful; it does however only represent six shots of each load.

That's a 5% difference [45fps delta, ~900fps avg V: I love it when the math can be done in your head! :) ]; quite a far cry from the "30-35% faster" quoted at the start of this thread!

[rodwha]

That's a 5% difference [45fps delta, ~900fps avg V: I love it when the math can be done in your head! :) ]; quite a far cry from the "30-35% faster" quoted at the start of this thread!

Indeed it is but every other chronographed result is more like that. This is the first time I’ve seen a result that high for standard Goex. Ever. In fact here’s a bit more results:

Lyman’s 2nd edition BP handbook shows a .375” ball with 20 grns traveling at 750 fps and 22.5 grns at 780 fps. Swiss wasn’t found here in the 70’s and Olde E was just recently produced.

Percussion Revolvers by Bates and Cumpston shows 22 grns produced 849 fps vs 1048 fps with Swiss. 23% increase.

There’s not nearly as much data for the .36 as there is for the .44 but what’s there typically shows a much wider velocity difference. This result is far from the norm. In fact this is the only case I’ve ever seen where standard Goex performed close. Search yourself and you will see.

http://poconoshooting.com/blackpowderballistics.html

[rodwha]

Mike Belliveau is a well respected enthusiast as knows his BP stuff better than most. Here’s 18 grns of 3F Goex with a ball from a .36 cal Spiller & Burr. You’ll note it produced 738 fps.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zVyPTdHcCDI

Despite his many videos of .36 cal pistols I cannot seem to find any more that have chronographed results. He does have one where he compares standard Goex to T7, which gives similar results as Swiss and Olde, through a pair of ROAs, as well as another video shooting various projectiles with standard Goex through an 1860 Army. All results are similar to every other one posted or in a book/manual I’ve seen.

So by the sheer number of results that show standard Goex, as well as the other powders, producing much reduced velocities I’d have to say that that is what you can expect. But maybe your experience will differ from all of theirs, and maybe some more testing showing the comparison on a video would be nice so as it can be out there for personal viewing and comparison.

[rfd]

i load with black powder in both muzzleloaders and cartridge guns to be as consistently accurate as possible. the powder used is just one part of a gun's charge, but an important one. if i was just a plinker, and not a competitive shooter, i'd be less concerned about the powder choice. well, maybe.

for my money i'll take swiss for both my trad ml's and rollers/sharps because of my personal observations of its consistency and less fouling issues. the added speed is of a far lesser concern for me. i know with swiss that i'm getting the best production bp offered anywhere on planet earth, and one thing less to dicker with in building a consistent muzzleloader or cartridge load. all my guns like eating it, too, as my personal best scores reveal. i think that OE is also a fine powder, and that'd be my choice if i absolutely could not get swiss, but make no mistake that swiss is still the world wide numero uno of black powders. i always mail order and always buy in 25lb lots, using whatever online vendor gives me the best shipped price. there is a winning reason why the vast majority of bpcr gunners use swiss.

[rodwha]

Totally forgot that Goex has velocity listings too. From their site:

https://s10.postimg.org/71746n98p/683_DBE65-1_F47-4_D3_B-9_A54-00_D062290577.png (https://postimg.org/image/us6hor9fp/)

http://www.goexpowder.com/load-chart.html

[indian joe]

Fedex is delivering tuesday a case of OE 1 1/2 F /2F for the total sum of 497.50 from Powder inc /Nice folks ! Think that"s about $17.00 or so ,that"s pretty current pricing /Ed

Ed - I didnt check the date on the posting that came up on Google - figured if the info came from the same place on the same day it made for a useful comparison BETWEEN POWDER BRANDS - was not my intention to put the powder inc people in a bad light and I apologise to them if that has happened - you got a good price on good powder !

[indian joe]

Fedex is delivering tuesday a case of OE 1 1/2 F /2F for the total sum of 497.50 from Powder inc /Nice folks ! Think that"s about $17.00 or so ,that"s pretty current pricing /Ed

Ed - I didnt check the date on the posting that came up on Google - figured if the info came from the same place on the same day it made for a useful comparison BETWEEN POWDER BRANDS - was not my intention to put the powder inc people in a bad light and I apologise to them if that has happened - you got a good price on good powder !
Gotta take note those numbers I quoted were for five pounds delivered and hazmat - small orders always cost more per unit .

[Golfswithwolves]

Maybe more shooters who own chronographs can be persuaded to test for their results too. More data would have to be more helpful than the values in various books and articles, as the conditions of shooting are often not specified in these. Also, I note a big difference in results listed even in different editions of such a reliable source as Lyman's Black Powder manual. Chronographs aren't all that expensive, so I hope that others may contribute their research.

[Edward]

Maybe more shooters who own chronographs can be persuaded to test for their results too. More data would have to be more helpful than the values in various books and articles, as the conditions of shooting are often not specified in these. Also, I note a big difference in results listed even in different editions of such a reliable source as Lyman's Black Powder manual. Chronographs aren't all that expensive, so I hope that others may contribute their research.
Will do shortly , but 22" snow and no power is stoping my shooting ! I have gen/power but no internet device (wires down all over) even Qubec power is down helping ! Will post results next week,keeping powder dry and (warm) ☃Ed

[ofitg]

Maybe more shooters who own chronographs can be persuaded to test for their results too. More data would have to be more helpful than the values in various books and articles, as the conditions of shooting are often not specified in these. Also, I note a big difference in results listed even in different editions of such a reliable source as Lyman's Black Powder manual. Chronographs aren't all that expensive, so I hope that others may contribute their research.

There seems to be some confusion about GOEX performance - but it might be explained by the fact that the GOEX produced in the old PA plant (which blew up in 1997) was more energetic than the GOEX produced in later years..... and some guys are still using up their stocks of the pre-1997 powder.

[indian joe]

There seems to be some confusion about GOEX performance - but it might be explained by the fact that the GOEX produced in the old PA plant (which blew up in 1997) was more energetic than the GOEX produced in later years..... and some guys are still using up their stocks of the pre-1997 powder.

That sadly is the situation downunder - makes the comparisons irrelevant I guess - that old GOEX was streets ahead of Wano at the time (my opinion) and chrono testing now tells the same story - OLD GOEX better than modern WANO - it makes no difference - we cant get it anymore. The story of the Moosic blowup(s) makes an interesting read - classic tale of a company in decline and how cutting corners (penny pinching) does not pay - the plant blew up because of saving a few bucks on a light switch repair .