357 Magnum powder

[sniper]

I am looking for a powder with slightly more bulk than Unique or Universal for easier load level observation when loading my 357 magnum. 125-135-148-158gr. Lead or J word boolits, 4" barrel. I would like a muzzle velocity of 900-1100 fps, because from long experience, those boolit/velocity parameters are sufficient for any reasonable purpose, and I would rather not shoot full snort loads. Trail Boss and 2400 need not apply!
Any suggestions will be gratefully received
Thanx!:-)

[boatbum101]

Herco , Solo 1250 or Acc # 5 . 4227 if you're gonna stay around 1100 to 1200 .

[Maven]

Blue Dot should do the trick.

[anothernewb]

be-86. although have had lots of luck with BD under 158's as well. BD never liked the lighter bullets for me though.

mised the part about more bulk. not sure how be86 stacks up there.

[sandman228]

herco

[Larry Gibson]

Blue Dot should do the trick.

+1 ^^^^^^^

[marshall623]

+2 Blue Dot , HS-6 will work also .

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[Ed_Shot]

Have had good luck with Blue Dot in .357 but for me it's hard to beat Red Dot/Promo 5.0 gr. under a 120 ~ 160 gr boolit in a .357 case.......it meets your velocity window, pleasant to shoot, and it's super accurate.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

SAFETY NOTICE
At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.

Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.

During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).
Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

just a heads up for your 125gr bullets

[JBinMN]

SAFETY NOTICE
At Alliant Powder, we take safety seriously. That’s why we periodically test our products in different situations to be sure our use recommendations stay current. Check here for any safety notes or recall information. Stay safe and keep accurate.

Alliant Powder periodically reviews and tests their published reloading data to verify that our recommended recipes have not changed over time.

During the latest review Alliant Powder discovered that Alliant Powder's Blue Dot® should not be used in the following applications:

Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 357 Magnum load using the 125 grain projectile (Blue Dot® recipes with heavier bullet weights as specified in Alliant Powders Reloading Guide are acceptable for use).
Blue Dot® should NOT be used in the 41 Magnum cartridge (all bullet weights).
Use of Blue Dot® in the above cases may cause a high pressure situation that could cause property damage and serious personal injury.

We apologize for any inconvenience that this may cause and appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter.

just a heads up for your 125gr bullets

Thanks for posting that warning. I am not a B.Dot user in that caliber, but if ya look at the posts before yours, there are more than one advocate for using it & not mentioning the 125gr+/- warning...

Once again.. the "warning" holds true... Don't trust the internet for loads unless you are using the right "sources" for the data.

Unless, of course , you want to find out the hard way... Not everything is the same as the old days..
;)

ETA: P.S. - Be a good idea to put that in your load manuals in Red ink as well, so it is not forgotten...
;)

[bluejay75]

HS6 for the purpose you state. From a rifle with 158 jacketed...300MP is the fastest and most accurate powder I have ever tried. Both can be thrown accurately as well from most powder measures.

[Hick]

I've had good success with 700x, even though it can be hard to measure in smaller quantities. I also use titegroup a lot in 357 Magnum, but it doesn't have the bulk you seem to want.

[Larry Gibson]

I discussed the Alliant "warning" with them some years back when it came out. They stated the warning was issued based not on their testing but "reports" of "pressure spiking". I asked how the powder could be "acceptable" with heavier bullets in the 357 magnum, all bullet weights in the 44 Magnum yet BD was not acceptable with any bullets in the 41 magnum.......they fell back and said again they had "reports" of "pressure spiking".

I had been a longtime user of BD in all those cartridges including the 357 Magnum with 125 gr bullets. Following the load data listed in one prominent manual I worked up to the maximum load listed of BD under Hornady 125 HP. At the time I wondered why that manual listed a load 2 gr higher than Lyman's but it was in a manual and I had blind faith back then. That load gave 1690 fps out of my 6" Ruger revolver with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. Terminal effect on jack rabbits and coyotes was awesome. I shot several hundred of them with no ill effect to the Ruger and no hint of pressure problems.

Ten years ago I got the Oehler M43 PBL and shortly thereafter put a strain gauge on my 357 Contender barrel. That load ran a tudge over 1900 fps out of the 10" TC barrel but then the Winchester factory 125 HPs were less than 100 fps slower. When I pressure tested that load I discovered the high velocity was because of pressure.....lots of it and with no sign of "spiking". That load was running at 42,200 psi! The Winchester factory 125s were pushing 28,200 psi.........I suspect that is where the "pressure spiking" came from. When loaded to the max BD load listed in the Lyman manual the psi came back down to normal 357 pressures and velocities.

Never could get a precise definition of what "spiking" meant in this case. By my definition and by other ballisticians I've talked with "spiking" refers to an abnormal rise or drop in pressure above/below the median time/pressure curve (trace). This also can be detected by an anomaly in velocity measurement during a test string of at least 10 shots. I've pressure tested numerous BD loads in the 357 and 44 magnums and never had any hint of "spiking".....excessive pressure above the SAAMI MAPs yes, but "spiking"....no.

I also found some reports of "spiking" being made on the internet by a couple individuals who were using another pressure measuring system that didn't have the "bugs" worked out. They also weren't using it correctly. Based on my own pressure testing I continue to use BD under 125 gr jacketed bullets in the 357 magnum (2400 actually works better at just under SAAMI MAPs). I also use it under 210 gr jacketed and cast bullets in the 41 Magnum and under 240 - 260 gr cast in the 44 magnum. I have observed no anomalies with loads less than of meeting SAAMI MAPs. Some time back I posted a test comparing Hercules BD to Alliant BD in the 44 magnum under the "Keith" cast bullet on this forum. It may be a sticky?

It appeared to me the "warning" is a "CYA" because of the overload listed in the manual. Most companies are loathe to overtly criticize another company and prefer to just fall back to a "safe" position to avoid any potential litigation. If BD did produce anomalies in pressure it seems only logical it would have been pulled from the market. I continue to use BD and recommend it for such as the OP wants in this thread. Others are free to do as they wish of course. I've no problems with that and if they've BD they no longer care to use I do accept donations.........

[gray wolf]

HS6 is a great powder, so is long shot,
but it is a very fine flattened ball powder.
So it is not a dense powder, it's a very fine small particle size.

[RiverRider]

I discussed the Alliant "warning" with them some years back when it came out. They stated the warning was issued based not on their testing but "reports" of "pressure spiking". I asked how the powder could be "acceptable" with heavier bullets in the 357 magnum, all bullet weights in the 44 Magnum yet BD was not acceptable with any bullets in the 41 magnum.......they fell back and said again they had "reports" of "pressure spiking".

I had been a longtime user of BD in all those cartridges including the 357 Magnum with 125 gr bullets. Following the load data listed in one prominent manual I worked up to the maximum load listed of BD under Hornady 125 HP. At the time I wondered why that manual listed a load 2 gr higher than Lyman's but it was in a manual and I had blind faith back then. That load gave 1690 fps out of my 6" Ruger revolver with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. Terminal effect on jack rabbits and coyotes was awesome. I shot several hundred of them with no ill effect to the Ruger and no hint of pressure problems.

Ten years ago I got the Oehler M43 PBL and shortly thereafter put a strain gauge on my 357 Contender barrel. That load ran a tudge over 1900 fps out of the 10" TC barrel but then the Winchester factory 125 HPs were less than 100 fps slower. When I pressure tested that load I discovered the high velocity was because of pressure.....lots of it and with no sign of "spiking". That load was running at 42,200 psi! The Winchester factory 125s were pushing 28,200 psi.........I suspect that is where the "pressure spiking" came from. When loaded to the max BD load listed in the Lyman manual the psi came back down to normal 357 pressures and velocities.

Never could get a precise definition of what "spiking" meant in this case. By my definition and by other ballisticians I've talked with "spiking" refers to an abnormal rise or drop in pressure above/below the median time/pressure curve (trace). This also can be detected by an anomaly in velocity measurement during a test string of at least 10 shots. I've pressure tested numerous BD loads in the 357 and 44 magnums and never had any hint of "spiking".....excessive pressure above the SAAMI MAPs yes, but "spiking"....no.

I also found some reports of "spiking" being made on the internet by a couple individuals who were using another pressure measuring system that didn't have the "bugs" worked out. They also weren't using it correctly. Based on my own pressure testing I continue to use BD under 125 gr jacketed bullets in the 357 magnum (2400 actually works better at just under SAAMI MAPs). I also use it under 210 gr jacketed and cast bullets in the 41 Magnum and under 240 - 260 gr cast in the 44 magnum. I have observed no anomalies with loads less than of meeting SAAMI MAPs. Some time back I posted a test comparing Hercules BD to Alliant BD in the 44 magnum under the "Keith" cast bullet on this forum. It may be a sticky?

It appeared to me the "warning" is a "CYA" because of the overload listed in the manual. Most companies are loathe to overtly criticize another company and prefer to just fall back to a "safe" position to avoid any potential litigation. If BD did produce anomalies in pressure it seems only logical it would have been pulled from the market. I continue to use BD and recommend it for such as the OP wants in this thread. Others are free to do as they wish of course. I've no problems with that and if they've BD they no longer care to use I do accept donations.........


Thanks for all that info, Larry. This is something I've been wondering about for years. Back in the 90s I had found that 14 grains of Blue Dot worked very well in my Model 57 shooting 410610s, then eventually ran out of Blue Dot and began using 2400. At some point in time I learned of Alliant's warning and was always puzzled by it. What in hell does the powder know about the bullet diameter, and why would a .429" bullet be okay but a .410" bullet NOT be okay? I've long since moved to other powders, but I never stopped wondering WTH. I figured it had to be some kind of BS.

[Meatpuppet]

VV N110... Versitile in .357 and several other calibers

[Atakawow]

I use Vectan A0 in place of all my Unique loads and I load mine to achieve the velocity ranges you mentioned. Comparable to Herco according to the manufacturer. Inexpensive and fluffy.

[saleen322]

I would try Power Pistol. I was using Blue Dot in 10mm for the higher velocity loads but Power Pistol performs better with better accuracy. The other advantage Power Pistol has is greater bulk. It takes less weight for the same volume compared to Blue Dot, 2400, H110, etc.

[dragon813gt]

Here is a bulk density chart. Fair warning, I don't have time to confirm the numbers are correct.
http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

You can also use Lee's VMD chart and convert to get the density.

[anothernewb]

Here is a bulk density chart. Fair warning, I don't have time to confirm the numbers are correct.
http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/powder.pdf

You can also use Lee's VMD chart and convert to get the density.

that's a very handy chart. I've added it to my archive. thanks for sharing.

[robg]

Ramshot true blue meters well and clean burning very similar burn rate to unique 7 gr with 158 gr boolits work well for medium loads.

[sniper]

Can somebody explain about the powder bulk density, and how it relates to reloading?
Thanx

[dragon813gt]

Can somebody explain about the powder bulk density, and how it relates to reloading?
Thanx

High density means you can fit a higher charge in the case in relation to a low density powder. Say the high density powder allows a ten grain charge. A powder that's half as dense will allow a five grain charge. These are made up numbers but I'm hoping it paints a picture. And I think I have high and low the right way.

Typically a powder burns more completely and efficiently when the case is almost full. So people will use a powder that gives you this while still being the correct burning rate.

[varminter66]

I have had great groups using Alliant 2400 in the .357mag... caste or jacketed, it's versatile enough for both, with very good accuracy. That said, I use 2400 for full power caste, and Hogdon's Lil Gun for Jacketed...

[357Mag]

Sniper-

Howdy!

Normally I’d have recommended 14.5gr WW296.

Given your desire for lower vel, I’m going to recommend an old Skeeter Shelton load:
8gr IMR4756 and regular SP primer, under a (Lyman) SWC of 158gr. Boolit weights up to 172gr shoot well also, in my experience.

I’ve heard 4756 is on it’s way out, and it is a tad sooty; but still..... a lot of fun can be had from just one can.


With regards,
357Mag

[gpidaho]

I'm also a VV N-110 fan. And I've burned a lot of Blue Dot in 357mag and 41mag. The only problems I've had with the BD is the stinging sensation you get in your shooting hand when you burn a heavy load in one of those light weight 357 snub nose revolvers. Gp

[jdt81]

1+ on the 2400.
I’ve had the best results among the various powders I’ve tried in 357 mag with 2400 powder. I use 190 gr cast. Very accurate, but I do think it may be less tolerant of variations in charge wt as I occasionally notice flat primers in what should be a safe load.

[P Flados]

I actually load a LOT of 357 with a stiff load of Promo (red dot equivalent).

Promo is king of the lowest $/bang ratio.

It is also bulky. From the chart referenced in post 19, only Hodgon Clays is bulkier.

You can use at least 5 gr with any boolit up to 158 gr. With a 5 gr or more load, a double charge will almost fill the case. With the least little bit of care, the chance of a double charge is next to zil.