What do you do with a son!

[poppy42]

Some of you have read my thread under helping hands titled “apology” and many asked what can I do to help and I thank all of you that asked. for those that didn’t read that post here’s a quick recap. 2017 was not the best of times for my wife and I. We moved to Virginia at my sons request in 2015. In the process of moving I fell, breaking my wrist in enough places that it required surgery, plates, and screws to be put back together. The plan was my wife and I would stay with my son, daughter inlaw, and grandchildren. After all 4 years earlier they stayed with us for 2 and a half years with there three dogs and my granddaughter. All the time not contributing one red cent for food, utilities, or anything. They didn’t know what they wanted to do with there lives. No big deal that’s what parents do. Anyway back to 2015. The daughter inlaw has since got some direction and joined the navy and in October, was up for det (mini deployment). Well there went the marriage. She told my son she no longer wanted to be married. In the mean time I was fighting with social security to get my disability, not for my wrist but for the dozen or so other surgeries I’ve had including 2 back surgery’s, 3 knee surgeries ( including a total replacement) ankle reconstruction, 2 surgeries on my other wrist, open heart surgery, and a few others. The list is to long to list. Not many original parts left. My disability finally gets approval and I get a settlement. I won’t say the amount but I’ve worked my whole life, I’m 61 and I fought with the government for over 4 years before it was awarded. I ask my son “ I know your are having a hard time do you want your mother and I to stay with you and help you? Or would you rather we got our own place?” His answer was dad that would be a big help!
And so it started I bought all the groceries mind you. Dad I don’t have the rent. Ok son I’ll lend it to you. Dad I can’t pay the lights, the water, etc. ok son I can help I’ll lend it to you. Dad I don’t have money for xmass. Son I won’t let the girls not have a xmass. You all get the idea. Meanwhile he keeps buying toys for himself, go out four wheeling wrecks the car. I lend money. I lend him money for his Divorce lawyers. By now you know were this is going. The settlement is soon gone. I say son you need to start paying me back! The bank is now empty! Understand he is not some young kid lowlife. He is thirty years old and has a good job! At the top of his game! As you can imagine things are getting a little tense but still bearable I still have faith in my son. That all changed during the fall of 2017 when my wife read his Facebook post from his now girlfriend saying how happy she was now that my son and her had rented a house and were moving. Surprise! News to mom and dad! He came home from work that night and I questioned him and yep. He was moving in 2 weeks and we needed to be out. My wife and I had no money, no place to live, no prospects, and as I soon found out no help from my son.
Well I did what a man is supposed to do. I sold what I had, kept what I must, and borrowed what I could! I found a place for my and I and my service dogs! That was October of 2017! Not much of a holiday season we still have my granddaughters Xmas gifts here. We have seen the granddaughters but that was before xmass. Not a word from my son. Not for thanksgiving, his mother’s birthday, my birthday, nor Xmas.
All this time the Facebook posts keep showing up. new guns ( 2 of my guns are still in a pawn shop including my hunting rifle) new wheels for his truck, etc... None of it necessities.

So back to my question what would you do with a son like that! I lost it tonight after his latest post! Another kick were it hurts the most! My heart! I could not take it anymore I contacted him and told him I wanted nothing more to do with him! I told him to contact me only when it was in reference to my granddaughters. If he didn’t care about his mother that I cared nothing about him.
Once again I apologize for this rantas I have no one else to rant to. It’s not like I can talk to my son I needed to vent!

[WILCO]

You can't argue with crazy. Keep track of monies lost. Try to recoup in small claims court if possible.
Other than that, move forward with your life. It's difficult, but necessary.

[725]

No apologies needed. I'd cut the apron strings and start taking care of your wife instead. Tough when you love somebody, but really the only right thing to do. Good luck.

[lightman]

Thats a tough position to be in. I would say first of all to cut the money off and take care of yourself and your Wife. If you are disabled you don't need this kind of financial drain. Maybe he will grow up some day and you can be a family again. I hope you get to see the Grandkids some. Wishing you Luck in this.

[ih772]

You were his enabler for long enough, it's about time you wised up and stopped. He needs to hit rock bottom before he'll change his behavior toward money and become a responsible adult.

[lefty o]

time to make him stand on his own 2 feet. you have to look after yourself first.

[country gent]

Since its apparent Hes not going to take help care of you, You need to focus on taking care of you your wife and dogs. Let him learn what all Dad did the hard way by not doing it anymore. Its hard to do, but its also the only way some learn. (I have a daughter that the only time I hear from her is when she needs something.) He may come around and realize what He has done sometime.

[poppy42]

Thank you all I have done so! Should he not let my wife and I see our grandchildren the glove come off! He will be in for a battle he can not imagine! I did not live this long and get this ugly being a nice guy! Other than that I want nothing to do with him!

[WILCO]

You were his enabler for long enough, it's about time you wised up and stopped.

Not really an issue for Poppy to wise up on.
A parent's heart weeps for their wayward children.
With every gift comes the belief that this time, they'll fly straight.
Broken hearts are a tough bird to mend.
Poppy42 and his wife will figure it out. No other choice.

[Hogtamer]

Poppy, I hate to complicate mattersbut have to observe this isn't "normal" behaviour. Do you suspect drug use by your son and new girlfriend? That would explain a lot.

[poppy42]

No there is absolutely no drug abuse. My son doesn’t even take aspirin. I might not know a lot but this I am sure of

[Houndog]

This is a hard row to hoe, but you have no choice but to cut him off completely and start putting yourself and your Wife first! He's not going to step up to the plate until he has a change of heart, if he ever does. Drop this whole thing in GOD's hands and let him take care of it.

[JBinMN]

It saddens me to hear more of this. I read the other topic as well & this sort of thing just bums me out.

I wish I could offer some sort of advice, but I feel I am lacking in what I could say that would or could help.

I truly wish you the best & hope that you find some solution that works out the best for all involved.

Trust in your lord.

[UKShootist]

There is a simple fact of life that cannot be altered. You cannot lead someone else's life for them. There comes a time, and forgive me for saying this, but that time was, for you, many years ago. I have six sons, one of whom died in a car wreck just before his 21st. Each of them is different. Each of them has to be treated for what they are rather than what I want them to be. One has used up his credit and will never get another penny from me. He owes me a lot, but it's not about the money, it's about his attitude towards the debt, and by association, towards me. I'll still speak and visit, he's still my son, but not another penny until he makes major changes, including paying back what he owes as a sign of respect for me (and himself).

As a separate issue, your grandchildren will be used as a weapon against you. This is quite likely a fight you cannot win, other than by enduring what is and hoping that the future will bring change. He and his new 'love' will be pouring poison in their ears and obstructing your efforts. The only people that will gain will be lawyers. The best you can hope for is to manage a one time communication to their faces to tell them how you feel about them and that you'll always be there for them. All you can then hope for is they they do not grow into your son's mould.

I wish you the very best for the future.

[Thundarstick]

We habe 4 grown children in roughly the same age bracket. I made it very clear to them all this one fact of life. At your age you can recover from stupid financial mistakes, but we can't! At our age time is against us! I'll also let you in on a secret, the one we helped the least is doing the best in life, the one we have shed the most tears and dollars over is still doing the worse! Going to his court appearance today to see if he is furloughed to a year long rehab, or the pen!

[dverna]

There is a simple fact of life that cannot be altered. You cannot lead someone else's life for them. There comes a time, and forgive me for saying this, but that time was, for you, many years ago. I have six sons, one of whom died in a car wreck just before his 21st. Each of them is different. Each of them has to be treated for what they are rather than what I want them to be. One has used up his credit and will never get another penny from me. He owes me a lot, but it's not about the money, it's about his attitude towards the debt, and by association, towards me. I'll still speak and visit, he's still my son, but not another penny until he makes major changes, including paying back what he owes as a sign of respect for me (and himself).

As a separate issue, your grandchildren will be used as a weapon against you. This is quite likely a fight you cannot win, other than by enduring what is and hoping that the future will bring change. He and his new 'love' will be pouring poison in their ears and obstructing your efforts. The only people that will gain will be lawyers. The best you can hope for is to manage a one time communication to their faces to tell them how you feel about them and that you'll always be there for them. All you can then hope for is they they do not grow into your son's mould.

I wish you the very best for the future.

I tend to agree with the above.

I will also add, your son will not change until he reaches rock bottom. And he will likely be divorced again. Your granddaughters will be used to extract more assistance from you when that happens. Think about that....one option is to only take the girls back when that happens.

[Wayne Smith]

I can accept no responsibility for my adult children's choices - good or bad. Clearly you have not followed that advice in the past. Do so in the future. They are responsible for the consequences of their choices, I am not. It is hard to see one fail but some insist on learning hard lessons the hard way. I have to step back and allow that to happen until they do learn. Once they come humbly genuinely asking for an education you can start - but not until then. Giving in to their asking for or demanding support is simply adding to the problem.

When they come to you with a problem - you agree it is a problem and ask "What were YOU planning to do about it?

[lightman]

My financial adviser, whom is also a good friend, has told me many tales of people who gave to their children to the point that it crippled their retirement and their future. He knew that we were very generous with our two Sons and telling these tales was his way of cautioning me and my Wife. Thankfully, after graduating college my Boys grew up and became productive members of society. Once again, I wish You Luck in this.

[Lloyd Smale]

I can relate. I told my wife one night that I seriously think our kids cost us more today then when they lived with us. I don't think a week goes by the one of them doesn't ask me to LOAN them some money. Ive never seen a dime back. Every chirstmas like clockwork both daughters give me that same sob story about no presents for the kids. I had enough. They sit on there duffs at home with kids in school and wont go out and work and earn money but want mine. I told them both NO MORE. Don't even ask. Funny thing is I think we see the grandkids even more since I put my foot down. Allways toward the end of the month when there broke and have spent all there food money on things they didn't need. Send the kids over and let grandpa and grandma feed them. Once last month my youngest granddaughter told me all they had eaten in that last 3 days was cereal. I know your frustrated right now but your going to get the last laugh. theres absolutely no doubt in my mind that your son hasn't magically grown up. Hes going to do the same as my daughters. Spend all his money stupidly and is going to come begging again. Sad thing is just like me part of this is your own fault. We should have put or foot down right from the start and made them grow up. You think your being a good parent by help your kids out in a rough time but kids today just don't think like you and I and what they see is a sucker they just conned into giving them his last dollar.

[mold maker]

As long as a crutch exists there will be dependence. When the last crutch is lost he will have no others legs to stand on.
Yours isn't an uncommon tale, but a sad one for you. The conclusion you have come to is correct. It is the only possible future for both famlies.

[DCP]

It won't be easy. Forgive him even if he doesn't ask for it. Then move on. Did I say It won't be easy

[ARKLITE881South]

"I contacted him and told him I wanted nothing more to do with him! ''

I have to be blunt, and straight forward with my reply. YOU waited way to long to do this.

[poppy42]

"I contacted him and told him I wanted nothing more to do with him! ''

I have to be blunt, and straight forward with my reply. YOU waited way to long to do this.

You are absolutely right. I held out hope, unfortunately, after last night all hope is lost!

[poppy42]

It won't be easy. Forgive him even if he doesn't ask for it. Then move on. Did I say It won't be easy

Forgive him? In order for me to forgive someone they to except responsibility for what they have done. That dose not exist in this case. As for myself I don’t care what he has done to me. I can never forgive him for what he has done to his mother!

[poppy42]

I want to thank everyone for their replies. The vast majority of have told me what I now know but was to stupid to realize in the past. If my son had been a friend or total stranger I’d have at the very least gotten my money back! One way or another. Like the song once said “ I’m not as good as I once was, but I’m as once as I ever was”. This is much harder! This is my blood! This is the child I watched grow into a man! What I once thought, a good man, someone a farther could be proud of. Now, not so much. At this time in my life, as I near my last watch ( let’s face it I’ve been on this earth a lot longer than I will be in the future) my only concern is for my wife and my granddaughters! At 9 and 4 those girls are innocents. I love them dearly. My wife has a very special relationship with the oldest. I with the youngest. To them I will always be poppy for the two of them. I truly believe that my son does realize that he dare not earn my wrath were the girls are concerned. I have made that perfectly clear, many times. As for him he is nothing to me.

Once again, thank you all for your responses
Sincerely,
Poppy42

[DCP]

Forgive him? In order for me to forgive someone they to except responsibility for what they have done. That dose not exist in this case. As for myself I don’t care what he has done to me. I can never forgive him for what he has done to his mother!

Let me try to explain this. We are commanded by Christ to let the Lord judge. WE are not to Judge or if you do you will be judged by the measure you have judged.

You forgive for yourself. You not him.

You must let the Lord do the judging. 70x7 This forgiveness may just one of hardest thing a Christian must do. Many on Judgement day may be very unhappy.

[starnbar]

Been there done that with #3 son spent enough money on him with lawyers and court to buy a new mercedes 500 SL. He was all most a write off until his daughter got hurt my granddaughter. Well he saw the light he has a full time job and he needs a loan every once in awhile last time he owed me I didn't have to ask for it back he just gave me his brand new after the hurricane honda generator. I told him if he wants it back just pay off the loan.

[country gent]

Poppy, Heres the big issue with this situation. Hes your son and always will be You love him and always will someplace deep down. That's whats making this so hard for you and your wife. I know this is hard but Disconnecting from him for awhile and letting him stand alone thru everything that comes up may get him to become more responsible.

[poppy42]

Let me try to explain this. We are commanded by Christ to let the Lord judge. WE are not to Judge or if you do you will be judged by the measure you have judged.

You forgive for yourself. You not him.

You must let the Lord do the judging. 70x7 This forgiveness may just one of hardest thing a Christian must do. Many on Judgement day may be very unhappy.

That is your fath, and belief. I respect that deeply. It is not mine. Nor is it everyone’s. Please don’t turn this into a religious discussion. It is not. It was not posted in the chapel.
I truly thank you for your response. I respect your beliefs but I will not engage in a religious discussion.
Take care,
Poppy42

[EMC45]

Poppy42,
He's your boy that you watched grow into a man. Love him, but keep your distance if you have to. Don't let the grandkids be guilt bait or used as leverage against you. He's 30 and sounds like his priorities are way outta whack. A rock bottom experience with no crutch to lean on may bring him to his senses. I hope it does.

[NWPilgrim]

You are doing to have recognized the situation and cut the financial cord. I don't think it is fruitful to engage in a aggressive relationship with your son over the granddaughters. It will create more animosity with him and possibly with your granddaughters and alienate them. Be patient, let him run on his own and calmly set the terms under which you are willing to interact with him. For instance as long as it does not involve money, then happy to visit, etc. He may stay away for a while (months maybe a few years). But often when the parents are patient and ready to have a relationship on healthy terms the adult children will eventually come back for visits and sharing news, etc. And if you exhibit love and patience to your granddaughters, they will believe that more than whatever lies he may tell them about you.

I think it is a pipe dream though to demonstrate animosity toward your son and expect to have access to your granddaughters. You may be able to win a family court case to get grandparent visiting time since they lived with you for many years and you with them. But that reinforces the adversarial relationship with your son and good luck with that. It creates a huge amount of tension in the whole family that will go on for many years.

As a society we seem to have a hard time respecting the integrity of the family unit. Some parents are going to make bad choices. But undermining them causes many more problems too. If the girls were in danger of physical or mental abuse then sure you need to intercede as best you can. But if they are safe then any interference will have much more negative effects than positive. When it comes to kids, think carefully about what is absolutely best for them and their family life, not what you want. If that can be achieved through patient love and not the courts then you are miles ahead.

Wish you the best. Family issues are very difficult, but at least you have the financial aspect off the table.

[Thundarstick]

The most important thing I have learned is that I can detach from them, yet still love them.

[lightman]

I don't see that you did anything stupid. And I don't think that you should see yourself in that light. You loved your family, like you should, and you turned a blind eye towards your Sons faults. Its the normal thing for a parent to do. You just had to make a very tough decision. Hang in there but don't beat yourself up over this. While you may have handled it differently, hindsight does no good. Still wishing you Luck!

[dk17hmr]

Was it in writting that lending/loaning wasn’t a gift?

I am your sons age, I don’t lend money to anyone, if you are hard enough up I will buy something from you and give you enough time to buy it back before I sell it or start using it, that time frame is clearly stated when we shake hands. If I am borrowing money there is a contract involved.

[redneck1]

I have a slightly different take on this situation.

None of want to hear that we are wrong , but I see this as a problem of your own creation .
He is your son , you raised him , he learned his values and morals threw you .
I'd hazard a bet that there is a longer history of you giving and him taking then is describes In this thread .
Expecting an outcome that is any differant then what happened is pure foolishness on your part .

It all comes back to taking responsibility for our actions .
Step up to the plate and come to terms with the fact that what happened here is your fault .

I imagine that many will disagree with what I have to say , but if he didn't learn this behavior from you ... where exactly did it come from ,
After all you was responsible for raising him .

If you want his behavior towards you to change ... it's up to you to change it .
Acting like a petulant child surely won't help any . It's just going to reinforce it

[Ickisrulz]

if he didn't learn this behavior from you ... where exactly did it come from ,
After all you was responsible for raising him .

A person can develop a behavior without it first being modeled by someone else. Bad children are not always the result of bad parents and good children are not always the result of good parents.

[waksupi]

A person can develop a behavior without it first being modeled by someone else. Bad children are not always the result of bad parents and good children are not always the result of good parents.

True. I've watched many families where you couldn't ask for better examples and guidance. The kid still turns out bad. Part of being a kid is rebellion against the parents. Fortunately, most grow out of it. Those who don't generally end up in jail or dead.

[poppy42]

I have a slightly different take on this situation.

None of want to hear that we are wrong , but I see this as a problem of your own creation .
He is your son , you raised him , he learned his values and morals threw you .
I'd hazard a bet that there is a longer history of you giving and him taking then is describes In this thread .
Expecting an outcome that is any differant then what happened is pure foolishness on your part .

It all comes back to taking responsibility for our actions .
Step up to the plate and come to terms with the fact that what happened here is your fault .

I imagine that many will disagree with what I have to say , but if he didn't learn this behavior from you ... where exactly did it come from ,
After all you was responsible for raising him .

If you want his behavior towards you to change ... it's up to you to change it .
Acting like a petulant child surely won't help any . It's just going to reinforce it

Well you hazard wrong. As a child he always worked for what he wanted. Not a spoon fed spoiled child. This situation is something that arose in recent years. As a matter of he joined the navy when he was 18. At one tome I was very proud to be his father. I have an older son who was in quite a lot of trouble as a youngster as he got older, he has straightened his life out and is doing fine. I have know interest in hearing how this has something to do with how he was raised.

[Plate plinker]

May possibly his poor decision making have started with a woman? Woman can be the destroyers of men.
Good luck with your family.

[MaryB]

Out of the 5 kids my parents had I am the only one who paid them back with interest for getting help. My little brother owes my mom over $50k right now and he will never pay it back. My 2 sisters and old brother only owe a small amount and I am sure they have forgotten about it because it was 30+ years ago and mom never reminded them about it. When mom and dad needed help they always called me because I wouldn't make an excuse. I would be there for them. I never borrowed much, and last time was 36 years ago when my car puked a transmission and I was between jobs(80's recession...). Soon as I found work again I paid them back because it is the right thing to do.

Not much you can do other than send him an itemized statement of what he owes as a reminder... it is up to him to decide to be an adult...

[Lloyd Smale]

hate to be the downer her but your in a loose loose situation. Help him and you make him worse but get to see your grandkids. Cut off contact with him and the grandkids go with it.

[6bg6ga]

Well, we bailed our son's two vehicles out of repo by taking out a loan in our name. We have loaned him money and was told I'll have it back to you by the end of the month only to see it about a year later after repeated mentioning of it. Had seen the son purchase guns instead of making his payments on the loan we took out to save his vehicles. Had his wife come over in tears saying they didn't have enough money to pay the house payment. Its amazing how dispite not having money for bills yet there was money to have her hair or nails done.

Finally got tired of it. Told him the bank was dry and he would sink or swim on his own. He finally grew up and is making his way on his own now.

[Hickory]

Say these words to him, as I have to my sons, " Today, you are a man"., and mean it. You will be giving them the option of sinking or swimming. In time they will swim.

[6bg6ga]

Well, we bailed our son's two vehicles out of repo by taking out a loan in our name. We have loaned him money and was told I'll have it back to you by the end of the month only to see it about a year later after repeated mentioning of it. Had seen the son purchase guns instead of making his payments on the loan we took out to save his vehicles. Had his wife come over in tears saying they didn't have enough money to pay the house payment. Its amazing how dispite not having money for bills yet there was money to have her hair or nails done.

Finally got tired of it. Told him the bank was dry and he would sink or swim on his own. He finally grew up and is making his way on his own now.


The religious view of this is we are supposed to help when someone is in need. This creates a problem of which way to turn. In one respect your tired of constantly reaching for the check book and on the other hand shouldn't one be helping?

[Ickisrulz]

The religious view of this is we are supposed to help when someone is in need. This creates a problem of which way to turn. In one respect your tired of constantly reaching for the check book and on the other hand shouldn't one be helping?

If by religious you mean biblical, the Bible tells us to help people who are actually in need and have no way to make money on their own. The Bible makes it clear that those who are lazy or mismanage resources should not be given a free ride.

[Wayne Smith]

I want to thank everyone for their replies. The vast majority of have told me what I now know but was to stupid to realize in the past. If my son had been a friend or total stranger I’d have at the very least gotten my money back! One way or another. Like the song once said “ I’m not as good as I once was, but I’m as once as I ever was”. This is much harder! This is my blood! This is the child I watched grow into a man! What I once thought, a good man, someone a farther could be proud of. Now, not so much. At this time in my life, as I near my last watch ( let’s face it I’ve been on this earth a lot longer than I will be in the future) my only concern is for my wife and my granddaughters! At 9 and 4 those girls are innocents. I love them dearly. My wife has a very special relationship with the oldest. I with the youngest. To them I will always be poppy for the two of them. I truly believe that my son does realize that he dare not earn my wrath were the girls are concerned. I have made that perfectly clear, many times. As for him he is nothing to me.

Once again, thank you all for your responses
Sincerely,
Poppy42

Think carefully about how you feel about your granddaughters. Don't do to them what you guys have done to your son.

[MikeS]

If you have kept a record of the monies owed, I think sending your son a letter spelling out just how much is owed might be a good thing to do. It might be even better if you have a friend that's a lawyer that could put it on their stationary. One factor that I think some of the younger members here might not realize is that as we get older, we have less time to wait around for them to finally do the right thing and 'become a man'. Your son took from you and your wife money that you both should have at this time in your life, so if it were me, rather than doing nothing, I would let him know in no uncertain terms how much he owes you, and how much stress & strain it's putting on his mother you not having it.

[RED BEAR]

I am sorry but your fighting a losing battle. Took 35 years to get my son out of the house now have a granddaughter living with us. At least my son has grown up and now tries to help me and his mom. Grand daughter was going to help around the house and pay her own bills. In a year and a half she has loaded the dishwasher once. Barely keeps her room and bathroom clean. I am out in the garage today fixing her car from a wreck. 500 more dollars . swore she would help because of health problems i am not supposed to be out there. But I will say I will not give anything that I want back because it ain't gonna happen. It is a rule I have lived by for a long time. If I can't afford to give it to them then they doubt get it. Same goes for loaning money to friends if I can't give it then it ain't happening. Fastest way to create hard feelings. My daughter in-law tried to use 2 grand kid's as weapons. It didn't quite work out for her told her I will see them when they are 18 if they want never want to see you again it was very hard but not seeing them only lasted till Christmas. I know it is hard but you owe it to yourself and wife to take care of your self. Sounds like if your son doesn't want to see you it is his loss. Good luck

[mac60]

"What do you do with a son!" - In my estimation you've already fulfilled your obligation to the boy. You gave him the love and guidance it took to raise him. You taught him how to work and you taught him right from wrong. He's your Son and he always will be - that does not mean you have to cater to his every want and whim until the day you die. At what point will it be time to grow up and accept responsibility for his failure to be financially independent. He went wrong somewhere along the line - YOU are not responsible for this.

[merlin101]

He needs to learn to stand on his own two feet, sink or swim! Don't let him use the grandkids as a weapon against you! Sooner or later you'll see them and spend quality time with them. Never NEVER loan money to a family, give as a gift and if they return it GREAT if not oh well.

[crowbuster]

Yip. The old I have money for everything but the bills trick. Just stop it all. Be done. And maybe don't keep checking on him with the facebook if it aggravates you so. Relax. I hear it all the time, he said, she said on the spacebook. I don't belong to it. never have, never will. You can enjoy thr grandkids without financing his life.

[poppy42]

"What do you do with a son!" - In my estimation you've already fulfilled your obligation to the boy. You gave him the love and guidance it took to raise him. You taught him how to work and you taught him right from wrong. He's your Son and he always will be - that does not mean you have to cater to his every want and whim until the day you die. At what point will it be time to grow up and accept responsibility for his failure to be financially independent. He went wrong somewhere along the line - YOU are not responsible for this.

Thank you

[DCP]

Thank you

4 days for a simple thank you. Seems strange

[Nines&Twos]

Sorry for your troubles.
I’m no help but this is one thing on a LONG list of reasons my wife and I refused to have kids.

[rockrat]

But you are missing out on the other side of the coin.

You have a kid who works hard, and even though you might offer, when you perceive they might need help, they politely refuse saying they can make it work. Asked them one day if I ever won a lottery or something, would they get too upset if I paid off their mortgage? Yes, they would get upset and asked me to not do that if I ever did. Then asked me if I wasn't telling them something!!!! Said, No, sure haven't won.

That said, I have seen classmates of theirs be just like son referred to in these postings.

[poppy42]

4 days for a simple thank you. Seems strange

Sorry for the delay I’ve been busy trying to keep food on the table and I’ve been to tired to check the forum. I do apologize for the delay. The thank you is truly heart felt!

[blackthorn]

I raised two sons. The oldest is a working fool. He will work seven days a week if the work is there. The second son is one step away from living under a bridge, has chosen to live a marginal life style and has been a constant worry to me all through his life. Both were raised the same. Occasionally the youngest will ask to "borrow" money, usually small amounts and he will never pay it back. I know this and if I have a bit of extra cash I sometimes "lend" him some. I never expect to see a nickel back and that's OK because I (silently) consider it a gift. I have no idea why the two are so different! I do know it is not my fault. They are both in their fifties at this point and I think there will be no change in either. I love them both anyway.

[fast ronnie]

My wife's brother drained everything from Mom. Cost her a house that was paid for and she ended up in a nursing home. Had to get a restraining order against him. He pulled a gun on his mother demanding money and ended up in jail for a year over that one. Borrowed 300 thousand against her house and never paid back one dime. My wife's mother died a few months ago, haven't the slightest idea where he is. We heard at one time he was living on the street, but really don't care.

He had everything handed to him. Everybody else had to make their own way. My wife has had some hard times with her family, but we are doing well. Don't give in when they come crying and whining. It does them an injustice to learn they can mooch with no repercussions.

[Nines&Twos]

But you are missing out on the other side of the coin.

You have a kid who works hard, and even though you might offer, when you perceive they might need help, they politely refuse saying they can make it work. Asked them one day if I ever won a lottery or something, would they get too upset if I paid off their mortgage? Yes, they would get upset and asked me to not do that if I ever did. Then asked me if I wasn't telling them something!!!! Said, No, sure haven't won.

That said, I have seen classmates of theirs be just like son referred to in these postings.


I believe many people truly agree. I do not nor do I see any value to that coin face.
Children have a vacuous appetite for time and money. Neither of which am I willing to share with anyone other than my wife. Knowing this about myself is the top reason I don’t have any children of my own and took measures to make sure of it.

No finger pointing here, I DONT beleive this applies to any of you guys BUT you can not argue that there are too many children with parents that cannot/will not spend the necessary time and effort to rear them properly OR just do not want them altogether.
That is a VERY serious problem and I will not make any contribution of my own.

[tommag]

The religious view of this is we are supposed to help when someone is in need. This creates a problem of which way to turn. In one respect your tired of constantly reaching for the check book and on the other hand shouldn't one be helping?

If I'm not mistaken, there's a passage in the bible that says if your neighbor loses his load of sticks from his donkey, you help him pick them up. If he doesn't pitch in, you quit.