ignition problems in home built caplock

[Whiterabbit]

And I have to believe it is because of my workmanship. It's my first caplock build, my flinters run like tops. But I've never had a caplock that ran like I wanted. I think it's because I don't know what they are supposed to be like, geometrically.

Symptoms: Pop a cap, I get nothing at the muzzle. Load and fire, cap does not ignite main charge. Load a charge, the powder does not funnel from the main barrel into the nipple barrel. open the cleaning screw and charge the nipple barrel with some 4F and the thing fires great.

I have the nipple barrel threaded into the back of the barrel so that spark should hit the main charge when loaded. Diameter is I believe 1/4 (28 pitch threads). straight shot through, nipple barrel is cut so it does not protrude into the main barrel. Nipple is unmodified from as purchased, has a very narrow channel from primer to the barrel.

I have a cheap borescope, here's the best I could do:

(I think the only one that is hard to see is the one of the nipple barrel transitioning into the main barrel. I'm just trying to show the main barrel wall is flush, that nipple barrel piece does not protrude)

[Col4570]

Yes,cut a Groove across the Breach plug face,Cut a cone in the Drum like a funnel,I have found that an area on the Plug that is under the ignition area allowing space for sediment to settle helps.I have converted all my percussion guns to military top hat caps since they have more humph.Good luck.

[RED333]

Is your hammer hitting the nipple square?

[mooman76]

If you are not, when you load the powder tap the breech of your gun on the opposite side of the powder drum. It helps get a little powder in the drum area for more reliable ignition. One of the cheapest and easiest things to do is to get a better nipple. Several companies make a version of the Hot Shot nipple. The hole in the nipple is smaller and the other end is funnel shaped. Also helps channel the fire into the breech area.

[1Hawkeye]

The nipple barrel is also called a drum. From your pictures things look about right except the position of the nipple in the drum. It looks like it may be closer to the clean out screw than the barrel. Your nipple should be in the middle of the drum between the internal end of the clean out screw and the exterior side of the barrel. Also when you installed the drum did you counter sink the threaded end of it. This helps act as a funnel allowing the main charge to funnel into the drum getting it closer to the caps flash. The other possibility is the clean out screw is covering part of the nipples flash hole. If done right it should ignite with a standard nipple but put a hot shot in it will make doubly sure of ignition.

[Whiterabbit]

No countersink.

Also, I can take a bunch of material off to get the nipple closer to the barrel, shorten up the gap. I can adjust the hammer as needed.

Thanks for reminding me its a drum, i forgot the term.

Cleanout screw does not interfere with the nipple, I did see that coming and cut accordingly. After I shorten the drum and countersink it internally I will report back.

Thanks guys! Anything else I should consider?

[indian joe]

[QUOTE=mooman76;4286541]If you are not, when you load the powder tap the breech of your gun on the opposite side of the powder drum. It helps get a little powder in the drum area for more reliable ignition.

YES YES YES!
I believe you are thinking like a flintlock shooter - with a capgun there is no place for airspace in the ignition trail - so give it a smack in the chops - (several good ones actually) to vibrate the powder into the ignition channel in the nipple drum - you want powder right under the base of the nipple so the flame hits it directly (thats what you were doing with your FFFFg primer to get it to fire.)

45 cal or smaller? + drum ignition system + FFg powder = problem .......not a question of IF but of WHEN ..... the first time is usually right in the middle of a serious match with about a hundred people watching

If your nipple drum thread into the barrel is 1/4x28? .....thats way too small - needs to be at least 3/8th inch - the bigger the better up to the maximum the barrel will accomodate safely - that allows a bigger hole into the barrel - your cleanout screw should be 1/4x28 if you can do it safely.

If you can get into the habit of thumping ol betsy on the side five or six times after you dump the powder down this problem will likely go away - FFFg powder will help -

[waksupi]

[QUOTE=mooman76;4286541]If you are not, when you load the powder tap the breech of your gun on the opposite side of the powder drum. It helps get a little powder in the drum area for more reliable ignition.

YES YES YES!
I believe you are thinking like a flintlock shooter - with a capgun there is no place for airspace in the ignition trail - so give it a smack in the chops - (several good ones actually) to vibrate the powder into the ignition channel in the nipple drum - you want powder right under the base of the nipple so the flame hits it directly (thats what you were doing with your FFFFg primer to get it to fire.)

45 cal or smaller? + drum ignition system + FFg powder = problem .......not a question of IF but of WHEN ..... the first time is usually right in the middle of a serious match with about a hundred people watching

If your nipple drum thread into the barrel is 1/4x28? .....thats way too small - needs to be at least 3/8th inch - the bigger the better up to the maximum the barrel will accomodate safely - that allows a bigger hole into the barrel - your cleanout screw should be 1/4x28 if you can do it safely.

If you can get into the habit of thumping ol betsy on the side five or six times after you dump the powder down this problem will likely go away - FFFg powder will help -

I do it with flinters, too. Usually a few light bounces on the ground, or slap the stock if the snow is deep.

[Whiterabbit]

It's a 32 cal, and I am using 3F that does not flow as well as, say, goex.

Yes it's 1/4-28. I just shortened the barrel to get the nipple closer to the main charge. It's also clear the barrel was not chamfered, I'll do that too.

But you suggest that actually 1/4" is not going to work well for me for long term reliability? Do you really suggest that I need to go to 3/8? Is that really a common thread for the drum? If so I am going ot have to make a new drum, from scratch, I think. This one came in a kit, so I'd need help with a recommendation for what steel to buy for the drum, what 3/8" thread to use (3/8-24?), and anything else I should integrate into a new drum.

Or should I keep going with trying to make the 1/4-28 drum work for now?

[trapper9260]

I first swab the barrel before i going to fire it.Because of some of the oil will stop it from going off also the drum with a pipe cleaner. And then i fire some caps to get the drum clean of what ever from the oil and then I put a small charge of powder and a cut of news paper to test fire it to make sure it gose off and then after I load it like normal.Also i found that if you use it for hunting and have it sit some is take a small cut of inner tube and put it over the nipple and the hammer to seal up to stop moister to get in when it sit. I found out the hard way and now no problems.

[1Hawkeye]

Most drums are 5/16 x 24 but you may have to go to a 3/8 x 24 because your first drum was 1/4 x 28. It all depends on your machinist skills.

[Whiterabbit]

Well, I can butcher a piece of metal pretty good, but I am comfortable turning a drum to the appropriate diameter, threading it with a die, drilling out the barrel, using a tap, timing the drum, D&T for nipple, cutting a cleanout screw to length, etc.

So, if I start over (which I will do if I have any more ignition problems) would you suggest I buy a 5/16 thread nipple, or 3/8 thread nipple? Looking at TOTW for options now.

Does the answer change based on the barrel being a 32 caliber barrel? .375 is kind of huge for a 32 caliber barrel.

[kens]

How long and deep is the nipple threads.??
I had a nipple once that had long threads, it was bottoming out against the opposite side of the drum instead of the nipple base.
If the nipple threads are too long, they can block the drum.

[1Hawkeye]

Clean up what you have and if your still having ignition problems then go to the 5/16" drum. How big is the barrel across the flats? If its 15/16" then you can use a 3/8" drum but a 3/8" would look odd on a barrel that's 3/4" or 13/16" across the flats. Also try Log Cabin shop for your parts they don't charge as much for shipping as TOTW.

[indian joe]

Well, I can butcher a piece of metal pretty good, but I am comfortable turning a drum to the appropriate diameter, threading it with a die, drilling out the barrel, using a tap, timing the drum, D&T for nipple, cutting a cleanout screw to length, etc.

So, if I start over (which I will do if I have any more ignition problems) would you suggest I buy a 5/16 thread nipple, or 3/8 thread nipple? Looking at TOTW for options now.

Does the answer change based on the barrel being a 32 caliber barrel? .375 is kind of huge for a 32 caliber barrel.



1)Just whack it good on the side five or six times when you dump the powder down - if you have not been doing it thats probably enough to get you going - its a good habit to get into with any front loader - wont help at all if the channel is full of crud or oily tho.
2) If you still got problems - could try screening your powder - If you can find a screen the right size - 30 mesh stainless filter screen from an ag supplies place - use the finer powder in your 32 and the coarser screenings in something bigger - maybe even try FFFFg
3) nothing else works make a new drum

You not using homemade powder by any chance? - not graphited and rougher grains - roll yer own dont flow near as good - makes ya pay attention to filling measures and cases properly .

[Whiterabbit]

yes, homemade powder. I shortened the drum, and in my garage it's MUCH better. I need to validate that at the range. I will report back.

[Hanshi]

What Col4570 said.

[indian joe]

yes, homemade powder. I shortened the drum, and in my garage it's MUCH better. I need to validate that at the range. I will report back.

ah - huh!
you'll figure it out - just gotta take more trouble loading - smack it half a dozen times to vibrate that powder right down through the channel to the nipple base
think about screening it finer too - thats an option

[GEOMETRIC]

This is pretty basic & you have likely already been there & done this but it bears repeating. When I have ignition failures, it is almost always due to contamination in the breach plug/drum area. It has to be completely free of oil & cleaning fluids. My cap lock SXS shotgun is particularly finicky. Just popping a couple caps doesn't always do it. I have to shoot a dummy load of powder in it to burn out the passage if I want to be 100% sure it is going to go bang. Once I do that, it shoots every time.

[Whiterabbit]

ah - huh!
you'll figure it out - just gotta take more trouble loading - smack it half a dozen times to vibrate that powder right down through the channel to the nipple base
think about screening it finer too - thats an option

I controlled wiht 3F goex just to be sure, it was still an issue.

Of course, I wasn't smacking the butt at that time to get teh powder to settle or shake into the drum.

Also, no cone on the ID of the drum as it transitioned into the barrel.

Also, the drum was clearly too long!

---------

Hopefully the shortening and coning does it. for HM as well as goex. I did go with steel hardware, but I still hope not to have to tap it, or too much to get it to ignite. Noone else in the club does that to their caplocks at the matches.

[indian joe]

This is pretty basic & you have likely already been there & done this but it bears repeating. When I have ignition failures, it is almost always due to contamination in the breach plug/drum area. It has to be completely free of oil & cleaning fluids. My cap lock SXS shotgun is particularly finicky. Just popping a couple caps doesn't always do it. I have to shoot a dummy load of powder in it to burn out the passage if I want to be 100% sure it is going to go bang. Once I do that, it shoots every time.

Thats all well and good and needs doing - not gonna be enough tho with a 32 + small diameter nipple drum + small ignition channel + homemade powder == you can easy get bridging across the nipple channel that puts you out of action --- a few smart whacks with the palm of an open hand in the breech area will sort it - been there done this a trime or two ..........................but that dont count I guess