Automated swagging machine

[JSH]

I ran across a bullet machine this past weekend. I would guess it to be maybe a 40-50's vintage as it is set up to use some flat belts. It is said to have .224 dies in it. Lucky enough that a gent happened to be there that had seen it run and had used the pills it made. This is a jacketed machine. I have no pictures.
I did some searches for pictures and thought that may lead me to some info, no luck.
Anyone have a direction to point me?
Jeff

[Valornor]

I've worked on 5012 and 3015's which are quite large Waterbury Ferral transfer presses. These presses are what are used by commercial bullet makers, but the frames date back to the 30's and 40's.

I also designed tooling for an ICOP (Individual Cam Operated Press) Number 58 press. It was originally set up for making the Ferrule's that go on the top of pencils. These presses were just about the right size to make .223 cal bullets along with .355 cal bullets. We converted it to run bullets and had it running churning out .355 cal bullets but in the end we were polishing a turd, and we didn't think it would be cost effective to finish upgrading the press to make it suitable for commercial production. I know some people use these ICOP 58 presses for bullet making, one of the issues we identified was the lack of cam followers. They require a rather specialize bearing, and we couldn't find replacement parts that weren't savaged from other presses. The stroke length was pretty well maxed out for the .355 cal bullets, so we couldn't have adapted it for anything longer.

If I remember right the nomenclature on a lot of these presses is the force followed by the number of stations. So for a #58 it is a 5 ton press with 8 stations. It's been a couple years so I may be a bit rusty.

Neither of these presses used flat belts, but these machines are constantly being worked on, and end up being something of a Frankenstein press. Hope that helps point you in the right direction.

[JSH]

I looked those over not even close to that big. This thing would easily mount on a bench and may be cam operated some how. It is maybe 3' long, no longer than 4'. Could easily be mounted on a bench.
I will poke around some more.
Thanks for the leads.
Jeff

[john.k]

Power machines need plenty of built in strength to cope with "wrecks" when there is a double up in the dies,or a piece breaks.........most of the setups Ive seen use flywheel type stamping presses of about 5 ton cap.......these machines need extensive tooling specific to the job,and all press tooling wears out,and also needs to be made of special steels to withstand wear and fatigue....worn tooling will produce wobbly bullets....assuming it works at all.

[JSH]

I am fortunate to have a tool and die maker friend that is willing to help with this. He made hundreds of extrusion type dies for various things. He has already checked and he has access to ovens to harden dies properly.
Looking at the price of jackets, then at lead wire, finished product will have to shoot a lot better than what could be bought.
Not quite ruling out playing with it, but it will sure have to be top notch projectiles.

[Latheman]

Ive been looking into swaging as well. And am in the process of making the press that's in the stickies. For me its not a matter of saving money but its a matter of being able to have the ability to create ammo, fine tune it to your needs and not be defenseless in the case of an ammo shortage. But its just satisfying to be able to say I made this.

[JSH]

Latheman, agree with you completely. I can shoot 22 center fire CB's if need be and cast for everything else as far as that goes.
I have been playing with the 17's and 20's. I am more inclined to crowd these past what I would expect from cast. I know there are molds out there for both and thought about giving it a try, then I came to my senses.
Into the varmint side on 22 center fires, I also crowd them hard.
I would not be opposed to using 22rf cases for 6mm and 224, have a good source for clean fired brass.
I did a rough figure on what jackets would cost and lead wire. Puts it over the top of most varmint bullets out there. I stand a better chance with the 17 and 20 of breaking even.
Lol, made five phone calls to some guys I hunt and shoot with. They all agreed to 1k worth of jackets and lead wire no matter the outcome. If it would make good or great bullets it may be worth the effort.
I just have enough projects in the fire without starting another one. Time will tell.
Jeff

[jmorris]

No idea what you were looking at but sounds like a job for a punch press.

The flywheel of one could be operated by a flat belt, certainly looks like that’s what it’s for but it’s generally a v belt or two.

They have been made in all sizes from bench top to large enough, they are put in place and a building is built around them.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21/BruceC408/toole.jpg

[Hootmix]

Don't know anything about "swaging ",,don't shoot BP. A friend of mine ( he's passed a while back ) left 2-3 flywheel ,5 ton swaging mach. in his old shop,,getting dirty & rusting. He made and sold swaged bullet's to places like Cabela's and a few others he also made "Quike" scope mts. for BP rifles. If any of this kind of equipment is what your looking for..PM or E- mail me,,no I don't have no "dog " in this hunt.. If I placed this in the wrong place ,,please fix it.


coffee's ready,,,,Hootmix.