Getting a new Uberti 1873 Win x 45 Colt. Need pressure / Load ideas

[Buckshot]

............I have a Rossi 92 and a Win Miroku 92, both in 45 Colt so I'm simply interested in what kind of 'Reasonable for the platform' loads I should be looking for with the M73. It's the 'Sporting Rifle' with a 24.25" bbl and I'm also not interested in having a jacketed slug stuck 3/4 of the way up the barrel :-) Surely 95% of the shooting will be with cast. Am I looking for pressures around 14K psi, or is 20K okay?

..............Buckshot

[T-Bird]

I don't know that anybody knows. These discussions always center around the toggle link design weakness vs the design with new steels.

[HangFireW8]

I know that some of the stiffest listed 444 loads will cause a modern Marlin lever action to open its lever. Keeping the chamber perfectly clean, dry and free of oil, and no verdigris on the cartridge brass, will reduce this tendency... a little bit.

The discussion is also complicated by the fact that the 1873 was never originally made in 45 Colt, so original load pressures aren't really a factor.

Another complication is that a longer sustained pressure can yield different results than a shorter sustained pressure, even if they have the same peak. QuickLoad is useful for visualizing this, but obviously the slower powders sustain longer. And it's slower powders you probably want for that long barrel.

Sorry I don't have an answer to this question. If I were in this position, I would pick a boolit that feeds/ejects well with dummies, then do 0.3gr step load ladders of 4 powders with different powder speeds, shoot with my hand off the lever, and use self-opening as a guide to the stiffest load for each powder, backing off at least a couple of steps from the ones that knock the lever open.

[Randy Bohannon]

Load it up with some black powder and a soft bullet 20:1 SPG lube and have a ball.I've dedicated my Win/Miroku 1873 to black powder and the results have been very good.

[Larry Gibson]

Buckshot

My standard load for my own Uberti M1873 is any 195 - 205 gr cast over 7.2 gr Bullseye. My Uberti M1873 Carbine prefers the RF bullet shape for 100% fee reliability. I have pressure tested that load several times (Oehler M43 and Contender test barrel) and it runs right at 14,000 psi. It runs 1150 - 1200 fps out of my carbine with 20" barrel and 950 - 980 fps out of my SA revolvers. It is wonderfully accurate in the carbine and revolvers.

[Texas by God]

The new 73's are available in .357 magnum so I'd allow for the bigger case head of the .45 LC when working up a load. A 255 gr fp at 1200 fps seems reasonable from that 24" barrel. In the Rossi, you can use "Ruger only" loads easily- but I wouldn't.

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[Soundguy]

............I have a Rossi 92 and a Win Miroku 92, both in 45 Colt so I'm simply interested in what kind of 'Reasonable for the platform' loads I should be looking for with the M73. It's the 'Sporting Rifle' with a 24.25" bbl and I'm also not interested in having a jacketed slug stuck 3/4 of the way up the barrel :-) Surely 95% of the shooting will be with cast. Am I looking for pressures around 14K psi, or is 20K okay?

..............Buckshot

why go over 14k?

[2ndAmendmentNut]

Most experts will advise keeping 45colt loads in the 14,000cup range for any toggle link rifle.

I don’t have my load manual in front of me but I believe it lists the 1873 toggle link design as a Group 1, while it lists the Winchester 92 and Marlin 94 as a Group 2. Group 2 rifles are safe for higher level loads sometimes called “Ruger Only.” Best to stick with black powder level loads for Group 1 rifles.

The classic 250gr boolit with 8-9.0gr of Unique is right at the upper end of most 14,000 c.u.p. level load recipes. From my handguns this load chronographs around 850fps. I’d imagine from a 24” barrel this load would easily break 1000fps. That would be more than sufficient for any medium sized game provided the shooter does their part.


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[HangFireW8]

why go over 14k?

Because, 24" barrel for a very low expansion ratio cartridge.

[Soundguy]

If you could 100% guarantee those cartridges were only ever fired in that gun or an acceptable weapon sure.. I never custom load over spec. On ammo that can fit old vs something rugged like a tiger, unless I can guarantee where it goes

[salvadore]

My experience with a Uberti 73 was not very satisfying. Using 3 or 4 different cast bullets in the 250gr area and powder from pyrodex to 2400 and was never able to get groups better than 4 to 6 inches at 50yds. My cheap Chiappa 92 in .45 gave me 2" groups right off the bat. I hope you have better luck than I did.

[Soundguy]

Was it a stabilization issue?

[Warhawk]

Buckshot, I’m curious that since you have a Miroku 92, why wouldn’t you get a Miroku 1873? The prices are comparable to Uberti, and the Winchester/Miroku 73 does NOT have a tang safety.

I have the same questions and concerns about loading for my Miroku 1873. In looking over the data from various sources I found that Hodgdon Lil Gun makes top velocities in 357 at significantly lower pressure than other powders like H110.

So I called the experts at Hodgdon who said the pressures quoted for Lil Gun are correct, and assured me that any of their loads published online will be fine in the 73. He went on to say that these 1873 replicas have been proofed with much heavier loads and wouldn’t be approved for sale if they would be damaged by 357 Magnum loads.

I still think a lower pressure load is sensible. I am really more concerned about bolt thrust than chamber pressure anyway. Since I have a quantity of 125 and 158 bullets on hand, both jacketed and cast with gas checks, I intend to try some Lil Gun and see how it does with starting loads. I won’t ever be pushing the 73 for maximum velocity.

[Soundguy]

I have a uberti 1873 cattleman 2 revolver in 357. I shoot 'cowboy' lead thru it, but also contacted uberti. They told me the gun was marked 357, and would digest any saami spec 357...i still baby it though.. I like to shoot 38 CA at steel spinners.

[salvadore]

I don't think so, never got any keyholes. I used pyrodex with a card and soft lube, titegroup under 1000fps, 2400 pushing maybe 18,000cup. Accuracy was pretty much all the same.

[Buckshot]

................I got the Uberti M73 x 45 Colt as that is what my local gun store had. Plus I did not want a 357 rifle. I didn't want to shot BP through it simply because of the clean up issues. I just want to be sure that the loads I'm using weren't going to stress the 1873 Action. I'm not going to use it for hunting, but purely for the shear fun of shooting with it. It is what it is, and I bought ti because it was a very nice rifle, and figured it would be fun to have. It's preety enough to just hang on the wall and look at it :-) So if I want striving loads in 45 Colt I have the 2 M92's, but the M73 is different, and I simply don't want to stress it. but I also don't want any slugs to stop half way up the 24" bbl :-)

............Buckshot

[.45colt]

I had one around 8 years ago in .45 colt just like Yours. I wanted to duplicate the original 44-40 load of about 1,300 fps. I ordered some Desparado soft cast bullets and ended up loading them over 13gr of HS-6 for an average of 1360 fps. my notes show a very small extreme spread in velocity and it says "very accurate". I got the data from the Hodgdon's reloading manual listed 13,900cup.
The gun was perfect in every way but heavy for Me. I sold it before I dropped it in the mud or beat it up. I am on the lookout for another one in 38-40 or 44-40. Have fun. Always work up to any load.

[Buckshot]

...............I certainly appreciate everyone's response to my very possibly 'Nebulous' question :-) I picked up the rifle today so 9.3x62Al and I repaired out to the boonies where I used to live, to do some informal shooting. He had a new (4 month old) scoped CZ rifle in 22 Win Mag that also hadn't been fired yet. First of all the rifle is a beauty as I'd mentioned (I'd visited it a couple times during the California 10 day wait).

I'd loaded 50 rounds of 45 Colt using a 250gr RFPB over 8.0 grs of Unique in new Starline brass and Rem #2-1/2 LPP's. I was absolutely amazed, to be honest. There was the foot of a ridge about 100 yards, give or take in front of my pickup. I pulled the rear sight slider back 2 steps, leaned against the fender with my elbow on the hood and aimed at a bare patch toward the bottom of the ridge and squeezed off a shot. The dirt flew from that spot! :-) I could have hit anywhere within a foot of where the front sight had been, but the dirt DID fly from that patch! Mostly I was glad it doesn't appear that there will be any 'Sight Drifting' issues to be resolved.

The action was slick and smooth, and the trigger was very nice. Nice enough so that there was no thoughts of any work being required in that department. One thing I also realized (never crossed my mind before) as I tried to single load a round is ............ you can't. Ah well, no big deal just something I hadn't considered. When doing load workup with my other leverguns, I like to do target work/testing via feeding each round directly into the chamber for each shot. I'll try to get some photo's soon.

..................Buckshot

[35 shooter]

I've always wanted one of those old rifles....maybe one day. Sounds like you have a good one.
Hope you get a lot of enjoyment from it!

[Good Cheer]

My brother's 24" 1873 load is the Lee RF and 777. Having enough lube seems to be his biggest buggaboo.

I shoot a single shot and use most everything now and then.

213686

[indian joe]

I know that some of the stiffest listed 444 loads will cause a modern Marlin lever action to open its lever. Keeping the chamber perfectly clean, dry and free of oil, and no verdigris on the cartridge brass, will reduce this tendency... a little bit.

The discussion is also complicated by the fact that the 1873 was never originally made in 45 Colt, so original load pressures aren't really a factor.

Another complication is that a longer sustained pressure can yield different results than a shorter sustained pressure, even if they have the same peak. QuickLoad is useful for visualizing this, but obviously the slower powders sustain longer. And it's slower powders you probably want for that long barrel.

Sorry I don't have an answer to this question. If I were in this position, I would pick a boolit that feeds/ejects well with dummies, then do 0.3gr step load ladders of 4 powders with different powder speeds, shoot with my hand off the lever, and use self-opening as a guide to the stiffest load for each powder, backing off at least a couple of steps from the ones that knock the lever open.

ooooops .might be that works with a marlin -- dont think its a clever plan with a toggle gun --not a good model for hotrodders .

[Texas by God]

8 grains of unique with the 250 grain bullet sounds just perfect to me.

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[2ndAmendmentNut]

Enjoy your rifle! I’ve got two Ubertis one is an 1860 the other is an 1873, both are in 44-40. Very accurate rifles. I mainly shoot 200gr loads with cases full of black powder.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180209/8c3db602ae87ea700a787dc1e91ccddd.jpg


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[Calamity Jake]

....

The action was slick and smooth, and the trigger was very nice. Nice enough so that there was no thoughts of any work being required in that department. One thing I also realized (never crossed my mind before) as I tried to single load a round is ............ you can't. Ah well, no big deal just something I hadn't considered. When doing load workup with my other leverguns, I like to do target work/testing via feeding each round directly into the chamber for each shot. I'll try to get some photo's soon.

..................Buckshot
You can single load the 73/66 by opening the action then close
The lever about an inch then push the lifter down with your finger
insert round in chamber and close the action.I

Use load data listed for Colt SA and you'll be good to go.

[Buckshot]

You can single load the 73/66 by opening the action then close
The lever about an inch then push the lifter down with your finger
insert round in chamber and close the action.I

Use load data listed for Colt SA and you'll be good to go.

...........Ah, there ya go! :-) Thank you.

2ndAmendmentNut, man those case colors on your 73 are brilliant. Almost no red on mine. Nice but not so striking.

.............Buckshot

[Calamity Jake]

Another way to single load a 73 is: with the action closed lower the lever just enough to move the bolt to the rear
not quite bringing the hammer to full cock, lifter is down at this point, insert a round in the chamber, close the action
the hammer will follow the bolt down, now cock the hammer.

[smkummer]

I agree with others that if you have any colt SAA or copies, keep the ammo on hand safe for any of the guns. Older Lyman data was tested in a colt and exceeded current specs. Such as 20 grains IMR4227 behind a 250 grain bullet. 2 reasons, the older I get, I often forget and if I ever die, I know someone will just shoot the ammo in any gun chambered. The only time I load ruger loads for my 45 anaconda, is when I shoot them up the same day.

1100-1200 out of a rifle with a 250 grain bullet still smacks steel at 200 yards with a nice “clang”.

[indian joe]

................I got the Uberti M73 x 45 Colt as that is what my local gun store had. Plus I did not want a 357 rifle. I didn't want to shot BP through it simply because of the clean up issues. I just want to be sure that the loads I'm using weren't going to stress the 1873 Action. I'm not going to use it for hunting, but purely for the shear fun of shooting with it. It is what it is, and I bought ti because it was a very nice rifle, and figured it would be fun to have. It's preety enough to just hang on the wall and look at it :-) So if I want striving loads in 45 Colt I have the 2 M92's, but the M73 is different, and I simply don't want to stress it. but I also don't want any slugs to stop half way up the 24" bbl :-)

............Buckshot

Buckshot
iIf you are into the fun part ? ... yr missing a major part of the fun ....shoot some real gunpowder in it - the cleanup issues are largely in peoples (smokeyless shooters) imagination ..cleanup after real blackpowder is not that big of a deal .....really..
Anneal some 45 colt cases - fillem up with black - go have some fun -- they go BOOM instead of pfffft - the smell is awesome - early morning or late evening nobody will be able to see anything for the smoke - clear yr sinuses out ...............smokeyless just dont come close in the fun department.