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View Full Version : .45-70 Heavy and Slow Advice Needed



KLR
08-29-2008, 10:53 AM
Hey all,

First post here. I知 getting back into shooting after a 15 year lay off and I知 looking at what I need rather than what my ego tells me that I must have. I used to do a lot of reloading with commercial bullets, but now bullet prices have me considering casting my own.

Now that houses have sprung up around my small farm I知 thinking that my .243 might not be the best choice. I don稚 have more than 150 yards clear either, so I知 thinking that a heavy, slow bullet might be my best choice for taking varmints safely.

So now I知 looking at the .45-70. My brother has a Marlin in .45-70 that I would like to try with heavy cast bullets. Before I spend $$$$ I would like to hear from those of you who have shot/hunted with heavy and slow loads. I知 thinking about loads in the 400-500gr and 1100-1200 fps range. The biggest game I値l ever take will be a Whitetail deer or large wild dogs. I know the recoil will be stout, but what is the report like? Everyone for a mile around can tell when I知 shooting my .243 or Mosin.

Also, rather than buy 100 bullets in three different sizes that I may not like, are there any vendors/members who would sell me a sample pack of a few different bullets? Three or four bullets in a couple of weights would be enough for me to decide if I want to go this route.

Thanks.

felix
08-29-2008, 11:02 AM
KLR, you are asking for serious trouble by changing your premise. Stay with BULLETS that will tend to stay put when hitting any object. Bullet chosen should be deer appropriate within your 150 yard range. Slow and heavy are DANGEROUS. ... felix

45 2.1
08-29-2008, 11:02 AM
So now I知 looking at the .45-70. My brother has a Marlin in .45-70 that I would like to try with heavy cast bullets. Before I spend $$$$ I would like to hear from those of you who have shot/hunted with heavy and slow loads. I知 thinking about loads in the 400-500gr and 1100-1200 fps range. The biggest game I値l ever take will be a Whitetail deer or large wild dogs. I know the recoil will be stout, but what is the report like?

Recoil can be from mild to wild, that depends on how you load it. A 300 gr. hollow point will basically blow up, if cast out of a soft alloy, and can be used for varmits. A 300, 350 or 400 gr. solid boolit is deer material. Powder for 1000 fps to 1500 fps or higher for the 4570 is SR4759. You won't need anything heavier for what you want to do.

KLR
08-29-2008, 12:52 PM
Thanks, guys.

The reason I wanted to go with the heavy bullets is because I thought the arcing trajectory would bring them down to the ground quicker than lighter bullets. But the problem with my logic is that the heavy bullets will retain their energy/mass and keep on going, skipping, busting through brush, etc. Sound right?

felix
08-29-2008, 01:10 PM
True, unless you go in the direction supported by Bob, 45-2.1 using the 300-400 grainers hollow pointed. In his scenario, you best hit the target without doubt. A ground shot won't tear up that boolit enough to do any good down the field. It is still a bowling ball compared to your 243 with 85-95 grainers at 2400 fps or so. ... felix

schreibwy
08-29-2008, 01:28 PM
I've used a 45-70 with 400 bullets to kill whitetails and without exception I get complete through and through penetration. I'm using a tc contender pistol and the load only generates 1350 fps. In a dry flat field I've seen the killing bullet kick up dust as it bounced and bounced and bounced. Consequently I don't use this weapon when killing deer in a friend's wood lot. I use a 41 mag with 170 grain Sierra's to get quick expansion and shorten penetration.

Both pistols are loud.

In my rifle the 45-70 is still loud enough to bother your neighbors.

I have a load that is quiet, but it is very anemic -- fun and good enough for a skunk or porcupine - but anemic. I found the loud in 40 years with the 45-70 by Paul Mathews.

45 2.1
09-02-2008, 11:03 AM
This boolit produces a large expansion cavity (big enough to put your fist in) in clay for the first 6", then blows the nose off to the lube groove while the base penetrates farther in. With less HP depth, the results are less spectacular. Works very well on vermin.

Bull Shoals
09-03-2008, 08:34 AM
45 2.1,
Just a thought, what do you think the results would be if a bullet ( per your drawing above) had a HP only 1/2 or 1/3 as deep? That being pushed at the same vel.

45 2.1
09-03-2008, 09:30 AM
45 2.1,
Just a thought, what do you think the results would be if a bullet ( per your drawing above) had a HP only 1/2 or 1/3 as deep? That being pushed at the same vel.

It might not blow the nose off then and still have quite a bit of expansion. The problem with this is it WAS meant to do exactly as posted by expanding as soon as resistance was met and basically breaking apart at a certain distance inside an animal. I use this for varmits and the energy transmission is pretty well total. If I hunt in another state, I would definitely use this on a broadside lung shot on a deer. The imediate expansion would drop a deer in its tracks (no shoulder or lengthwise shots should be taken with it though). I have this boolit in PB and GC models as well as solids and enjoy playing with loads that have different purposes without beating me or somebody smaller silly with recoil. A 1500 fps load is quite nice to shoot and doesn't recoil much with a sub 300 gr. weight. Expanding hollow point boolits allow much better performance for thin skinned game than higher speed WFN, LFN or Keith solids do.

725
09-03-2008, 05:00 PM
So, ....45 2.1, Wher would someone acquire a boolit such as shown in post #7? I would love to have one for my .45-70's

DanWalker
09-03-2008, 06:12 PM
Looks like an awesome deer and antelope killer from my 45LC's too!
Where would I get one?

NickSS
09-04-2008, 03:21 AM
heavy ans slow bullets from a 45-70 is a sure recepee for bouncing bullets that will travel way over 150 yards. If you want to shoot pests at short range and do not want much noise try a 30-30 with cast bullets. I use a Lyman 31108 115 gr plainbase bullet with about 5 or 6 gr of red dot powder. Results in my 94 winchester are that at 100 yards I get around a 2 inch group and it sounds like a 22 rf going off. As for power I have killed raccoon, rabbits and coyotes with it. It is a bit light for deer but it is easy to load up some Lyman 173 gr GC FP bullets to around 1700 fps for shooting deer. They make more noise but out to 100 yards or so they take deer very well with well placed shots and do not damage meat too well. Don't get me wrong. I own and shoot 12 rifles in 45-70 including three marlins and they are fine rifles but I would not use any of them in a crowded area you describ. Also any bullet over a 400 gr slug would not work in a marlin magazine as they would be too long. I mostly use an RCBS 325 gr FP slug in my marlins pushed by either 16 gr of Unique or 29 gr of AA 5744 powder.

45 2.1
09-04-2008, 07:34 AM
So, ....45 2.1, Wher would someone acquire a boolit such as shown in post #7? I would love to have one for my .45-70's

Looks like an awesome deer and antelope killer from my 45LC's too! Where would I get one?

Custom made by a private maker. I don't know if he would make it for anybody else as its a PITA mold to make for him. As cast diameter is 0.462" which may not size down to well on this one, but haven't tried that. The cherry is for the gas check version. The PB cavities have the GC shank bored out and are cut at a different depth to make the weight equal. These are hollow pointed or not depending on what is wanted.

725
09-04-2008, 08:59 AM
Thanks for the info. That looks like a wonderfull varmint boolit. Light enough to be driven down at resonable speeds and real bad medicine for pesky problems.

compass will
09-04-2008, 09:11 AM
I have heard of some areas that allowed shot guns only are now allowing pistol cartridge rifles. I think I might have also read you can only use them from tree stands.

I know my Puma with the 45 colt loaded with 255 grain lead boolit and max books loads of clays powder really has some power when it hits the steel rams at 100 yards, but don't know how that would equate to hitting a real deer. Maybe you have the right idea but the wrong calabler.

I also would not hesitate to use lead boolets for deer hunting in my 32 winchester special. I know it works real well out to 200 yards for silhouette.