New Cabine Tree Tester

[2011redrider]

I recently purchased a Cabine Tree Tester from the new company STmachining. It came with a chart to figure the BHN. Seems the new chart differs from the older one posted here in the sticky's. Newer chart seems to calculate a lower BHN on the same reading.
Which chart are you guys using and anyone know the reason for the difference?

213213

New chart is the one at the bottom.

[jeepyj]

I bought mine used several years ago and I just checked it aginst the chart you have. It is exactly the same.

[2011redrider]

I bought mine used several years ago and I just checked it aginst the chart you have. It is exactly the same.

Sama as the old chart or the new one?

[jeepyj]

Sorry didn't see the 2nd one mine looks the top one.

[Dusty Bannister]

[QUOTE=2011redrider;4278054]I recently purchased a Cabine Tree Tester from the new company STmachining. It came with a chart to figure the BHN. Seems the new chart differs from the older one posted here in the sticky's. Newer chart seems to calculate a lower BHN on the same reading.
Which chart are you guys using and anyone know the reason for the difference?

Post a photo of your new one and perhaps any obvious difference could be shown. It might be the angle of the tapered indent, the size of the flat point, or perhaps a different spring. As mentioned in a PM, known samples would be the appropriate samples to test and verify which chart is appropriate for your tester.

[2011redrider]

[QUOTE=2011redrider;4278054]I recently purchased a Cabine Tree Tester from the new company STmachining. It came with a chart to figure the BHN. Seems the new chart differs from the older one posted here in the sticky's. Newer chart seems to calculate a lower BHN on the same reading.
Which chart are you guys using and anyone know the reason for the difference?

Post a photo of your new one and perhaps any obvious difference could be shown. It might be the angle of the tapered indent, the size of the flat point, or perhaps a different spring. As mentioned in a PM, known samples would be the appropriate samples to test and verify which chart is appropriate for your tester.

https://i.imgur.com/XLVZfbIl.jpg

[Dusty Bannister]

Looks like it might be a lighter spring. Will compare when I get home later tonight.

[bangerjim]

You never heard it from me, but you can re-calibrate your tester by tightening or loosening the spring! I did it to mine, but I have a lab hardness tester and certified samples to calibrate and verify it with.

I would not recommend doing it "by the seat of your pants"!

[Dusty Bannister]

In comparison, it looks like there are some differences in how the base and supporting pieces are made but I am only looking closely at the indenter point that contacts the sample and the spring. The indenter appears to be about the same angle and tip area. It would take a better "eyeball mic" than I have to determine the difference.

I have not altered any of the settings on my unit and it is not possible to get a real accurate reading on the spring, but this is what I come up with just to roughly compare.
Coil spring compressed 1.300"
coil spring diameter .785"
Wire diameter .140"

I have tested certified samples of lino (reads correctly) Lyman #2 (reads correctly) and pure lead (reads a little harder, but I think that is operator error) It is very consistent and I do not work all that much at the soft end of the scale anyway. I am using the old reference sheet and when sorting, I just mark the indent reading on the ingots or the container since some of the alloys overlap or are so close as to be hardly relevant.

I have also made a thin sleeve from an index card to wrap loosely around the threaded indenter and secured it loosely in place with a small tie wrap, I cut it close to the nub, then filed it smaller to clear the brass reference rod. I set the indenter to contact the sample, then move the nub to rest under the rod and then turn one complete turn more accurately than trying to keep a reference on the flat of the nut.

I also use some of the index card to form a sliding "saddle" on the base to allow the larger samples to slide on the base and not drag and perhaps create an error in reading. I also cast large flat nosed bullets for a consistent sample to test and always file the base and nose flat when testing. I know there will be some error in my measurements, but it should be close enough to compare any differences in new or old products.

[OS OK]

When you bring the 'indenter' end up to make contact with the cast, do you have to register a few thousands on the dial before making the one full turn?

[Dusty Bannister]

No, the instructions say to just touch the sample. I do not worry too much about it, as I said, I usually am working with the harder alloys anyway. That is why I rely on the indent reading and not the reference sheet interpretation of that reading, when checking hardness.

[40-82 hiker]

Moderator: Please delete this if need be. I do not understand the site's limitations to links. I am giving full citation here to the LASC web site.

Results of tests of lead hardness testers on the LASC website: http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm

Those of you who own and use the Cabine Tree tester have the jump on me, so please do not send arrows this way. I do not own or use a Cabine tester, though I would love to own one (may just do such). Anyway, by the results of the test results shown on the LASC website, it appears that Cabine had a great low SD in the testing (good), but came away with results skewed to harder readings than actual. Could it be possible the company making the Cabine tester is correcting that issue with the current model, and a chart reflecting that change to slightly "softer" results?

Just a thought...

[bangerjim]

No, the instructions say to just touch the sample. I do not worry too much about it, as I said, I usually am working with the harder alloys anyway. That is why I rely on the indent reading and not the reference sheet interpretation of that reading, when checking hardness.

Unless the new makers of the Cabine has re-invented the age-old laws of metallurgy..........you have to give the handle a FULL turn AFTER the tip touches the sample. Then take your reading. That gives you the "impact" test used by lab testers. Hardness is measured by a very specific scientific principal/formula and all testers use the same "dent" method along with specific geometry and force of that unique tester's components.

My Cabine tester is dead-on every time, compared with certified samples. But you must do it right to get the correct answer.

I use a 1" travel digital indicator on mine for even better accuracy and readability.

[lightman]

I've learned that when testing softer lead that I get more consistent readings if I read the dial quickly. The spring is strong enough that it continues to press into the softer material.

[OS OK]

When using the Lee BHN tester we hold the cast under pressure for 30 seconds while in the press then take it out and read the indent...isn't there a count time you have to use before reading the dial on this type?

[bangerjim]

When using the Lee BHN tester we hold the cast under pressure for 30 seconds while in the press then take it out and read the indent...isn't there a count time you have to use before reading the dial on this type?

No. one turn of the handle is what is required.

I had a Lee "thingy" several years ago and did a lot of testing on it against the Cabine. You do NOT need to hold the point against the sample for 30 seconds! I ran MANY dozens of tests and found just a "bump and go" test is all that is required with the Lee tester to get a relative accurate reading of hardness. ( Lee is "relatively accurate" too many variables for accuracy.) The 30 second spec is totally bogus.

[OS OK]

No. one turn of the handle is what is required.

I had a Lee "thingy" several years ago and did a lot of testing on it against the Cabine. You do NOT need to hold the point against the sample for 30 seconds! I ran MANY dozens of tests and found just a "bump and go" test is all that is required with the Lee tester to get a relative accurate reading of hardness. ( Lee is "relatively accurate" too many variables for accuracy.) The 30 second spec is totally bogus.

I wonder why Lee says to do that, wait 30 seconds?
I wonder why you say this... ( Lee is "relatively accurate" too many variables for accuracy.)

This extensive test of BHN testers [ http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm ] actually said this...

*The Lee tester appeared to produce the most readings that were both consistent and closest to the actual laboratory results. Although individually other testers came in with slightly smaller standard deviations and numbers that came in closer to calibrated equipment, the Lee appeared to have the best combination between the two areas.

Did you have trouble working your Lee "thingy" ? ;)

[40-82 hiker]

I use a 1" travel digital indicator on mine for even better accuracy and readability.


Think I can picture this... Photo? I'm thinking about getting a Cabine Tree tester, and intrigued about this process. I understand what you are saying/doing, but how do you have it mounted. Thanks

[bangerjim]

Think I can picture this... Photo? I'm thinking about getting a Cabine Tree tester, and intrigued about this process. I understand what you are saying/doing, but how do you have it mounted. Thanks

Any standard dial indicator will fit the Cabine tester. I bought the Harbor Freight 1" trave indicator when they offered it. Get ANY brand 1" travel indicator and it will fit the Cabine. Digital is far better than the analog pointer that comes with it.

Banger

[bangerjim]

I wonder why Lee says to do that, wait 30 seconds?
I wonder why you say this... ( Lee is "relatively accurate" too many variables for accuracy.)

This extensive test of BHN testers [ http://www.lasc.us/Shay-BHN-Tester-Experiment.htm ] actually said this...

*The Lee tester appeared to produce the most readings that were both consistent and closest to the actual laboratory results. Although individually other testers came in with slightly smaller standard deviations and numbers that came in closer to calibrated equipment, the Lee appeared to have the best combination between the two areas.

Did you have trouble working your Lee "thingy" ? ;)

I hated squinting thru the microscope of the Lee thing. Too much error in reading the width of the divot. Too much user error involved for my purposes. Some users may be satisfied with ballpark reading obtained, but I was not!!!!! Switched to the Cabine and never looked back. Digital readout (added by me) is great!!!!!! Repeatable FAST PORTABLE accurate readings everytime.

[2011redrider]

Thanks all for the info. I have emailed the new company, ST Machining, to see if they have changed any parts of the machine that would cause lower BHN readings.

[6bg6ga]

Its probably pretty simple. Any change in the point angle would result in different readings. Any spring change diameter, length, pressure would result in a different chart. I also have the newer version with the new chart. I found it very easy to use. Simply contact the item your checking with the point of the indenter and rotate 1 full turn and the readout is instant. This is much easier to use than the Lee in my opinion and yes its more expensive but you pay for the convenience of not having to squint and try to line up marks. When used correctly it provides spot on reading and when used incorrectly it will provide inaccurate readings.

[2011redrider]

Here is their response:

Thank you for the inquiry! Since we began manufacturing the CabinTree Lead Tester the formula has been updated and calibrated based on pure sample alloy mixes after being cured.
Please let us know if you have further questions!

[Loudy13]

Good Thread I received a Cabine tester for x-mas, gotta love the info you can get from people who actually have used these tools.

Thanks

[MT Gianni]

Any standard dial indicator will fit the Cabine tester. I bought the Harbor Freight 1" trave indicator when they offered it. Get ANY brand 1" travel indicator and it will fit the Cabine. Digital is far better than the analog pointer that comes with it.

Banger

A lot depends on age and experience. Those of us who grew up reading analog have no problems with it.