Big Bore AR-15s [Archive]

Moleman-

02-01-2018, 09:16 PM

Been deer hunting with them since MI changed the rules in 2014. First with a 357AR (357Maximum-Rimless at 60Kpsi) then a 44x1.6" (like a long 44amp or 445SM off of 308 or 30-06 brass). I've gathered parts (including the fancy bolt and extension) for a 44x1.8" upper that will launch a 265gr fn bullet to 2300fps out of a 16" barrel which is faster that my 24" 444 Marlin and legal for me to use. I used it in an AR10 the past two years but find the ar15 357AR or 44x1.6" easier to carry and handle in a treestand. You can sight them in with a 130ish yard zero so that they're fairly flat out to 150yds, but after that they drop fast, about 6" at 200 yds and 13"-14" at 250yds or more depending on speed and zero distance.

adcoch1

02-01-2018, 09:18 PM

I hear you on the anti gunners here in Washington, looking to move ASAP...

adcoch1

02-01-2018, 09:21 PM

Moleman, what bolt do you use for the 44 x1.6? And what extension? I may go that route instead of the socom if the parts are reasonably available. I love 44 stuff...

pmer

02-01-2018, 09:43 PM

I didn't know about the 44 caliber stuff either. What sites do you go to for that?

Must be taper crimping some these cartridges, taper crimping must enough to hold bullets in place?

DougGuy

02-01-2018, 09:51 PM

I would think getting close as you could get to 308 performance in the ar15 platform would be pretty sufficient for hunting and whatever else out to 200yds so I was looking at the 30ARX or something similar. Not sure I would go with bigger than 40 caliber because of the boolit drop at 200yds or more.

rockrat

02-01-2018, 10:42 PM

All the big bores I have, shoot well. the 450b was the easiest to find an accurate load for, but the 458 and the 500 were pretty easy too. I really need a heavier barrel for my 450b as that big hole in the middle makes for a lightish barrel.

Fastleo

02-01-2018, 10:51 PM

I would like to build a 50 Beowulf or 12.7x42

Moleman-

02-01-2018, 10:51 PM

Moleman, what bolt do you use for the 44 x1.6? And what extension? I may go that route instead of the socom if the parts are reasonably available. I love 44 stuff...

The 44x1.6" uses a 450BM bolt and a standard big bore extension. I'm heavy into 44 stuff and stubborn or else I'd just get a 450BM. Either cartridge uses a max of around 40K psi which still get you around 2050 fps with a 240gr xtp in the 44x1.6 or around 2250 in the 450BM with it's larger capacity for max loads. If you can find a 800 series (the rounded lug bolt and extension that don't interchange with a standard one) you can load up to 65K psi. That's what I'm using on my 44x1.8" that's going into an ar15. I use a 444 marlin die set to reload both the 44x1.6" and the 44x1.8" along with a lyman taper crimp die. Using good neck tension you can set the bullets out further to increase your usable case capacity which in turn increases the velocity for a given pressure. Another one to look at is the 45 velociraptor. It's basically a 45 raptor minus a little pressure and col. You need the rounded lug bolt setup for it also. Here's what they look like next to a standard extension and 450BM bolt. Tromix has the big bore extensions (450BM/458)for around $30 https://tromix.com/shop?olsPage=products%2F458-socom-big-bore-barrel-extension&page=4

Here's a good page for the 45v-rap and my 44x1.6", might even have the 44x1.8" there somewhere. Haven't started making chips on the new ar15 one yet so no posts on it other than in my mauser and ar10.

http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/?forum=557720

ar10-with the right extension/bolt will work if it fits in a mag. http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/?forum=557723

mtnman31

02-02-2018, 12:23 AM

I've got a 458 SOCOM. Absolutely love it. Brass is available, not cheap, but, not as expensive as other cartridges. Uses standard, unmodified magazines and there's a wide selection of bullet designs to choose from.

pmer

02-02-2018, 08:41 AM

Moleman-

02-02-2018, 08:58 AM

45v-rap http://mdws.forumchitchat.com/?forum=557720 I tried necking down a 450BM to 44, but didn't think it would meet MI DNR "straight wall" rule. If you're not limited to straight walled cartridges you have more options.

Electric88

02-02-2018, 09:01 AM

I've got the 50 Beowulf. As previously mentioned, whitetail hunting in lower Michigan you can only have straight walled cartridges. Since this shares the same diameter bullet as the S&W 500, I figured it was the best choice for me. Everyone that shoots grins ear to ear afterwards.

DCM

02-03-2018, 04:40 AM

Love my 458 SOCOM. Uses unmodified 5.56 mags, shoots 140g ARX to 500g castboolits. 500s I tried were hi-tek coated and left no fouling.
I found a good deal on a Satern/Liberty stainless barrel that shoots Very well when I decided to build this upper and it came with the appropriate sized and head-spaced bolt.
2 Friends have 50 Beowulf and 1 has a 450 bushmaster, we all are very pleased with our compact MSRs for hunting.
I put a Limbsaver recoil pad on my M4 type stock to make it more pleasant but all of these are manageable without it IMO, just more pleasant for extended range sessions with it. Some have muzzle brakes on theirs I do not, as I don't care for the extra noise.

Moleman-

02-03-2018, 08:40 AM

I also shoot lead through mine, mostly gas checked. Most cast I've ever shot at a time was around 500. The gun was dirtier than normal but that was about it.

Ramjet-SS

02-03-2018, 09:32 AM

458 SOCOM built mine up and it is hammer and very accurate I shoot everything from 300 grain J-words to 460 grain cast from it and it hits like hammer. Everyone who shoots it just smiles and asks if they can shoot some more......:bigsmyl2:

pmer

02-03-2018, 10:53 AM

I've shot some cast out a 223 AR15 but not that much though.

I've noticed the 450BM usually has a 1-24 twist barrel, are there any with 1-16 twist barrels for the heavier .452 projectiles?

pmer

02-07-2018, 08:40 AM

I was pretty much set on 458 SOCOM then I ran across McGowen Precission Barrels. I see they have 450 Bushmaster chambered barrels with a faster twist.

http://mcgowenbarrel.com/

So I'm wondering if I'm wrong thinking the 450BM could use a faster twist? If I got a 450BM I'd want it to shoot 300 grain projectiles. Is the 450BM able to feed a .452 300 grain RF with a bigger meplat or 300 grain JHP?

Smoke4320

02-07-2018, 03:37 PM

I have a 458 socom .. Absolutely love it 325 gr hps and lee 500 grn subs thru a Silencero Hybrid or a Costal 458 suppressor
deer or hogs have no chance

213579
213580

Whiterabbit

02-07-2018, 04:04 PM

458 socom with cast, any tips?

Or maybe better put, would I have any issue with hardball lead with gas check? How about no gas check? Tumble lube vs traditional lube? How much do I need to worry about nose profile? Any other considerations?

Smoke4320

02-07-2018, 04:27 PM

How much do I need to worry about nose profile? if in AN AR15 probably not going to get a real wife flat nose to feed
I shoot a HP'ed NOE 460-350 with a fairly wide nose and once in a while will have a hang up .. with the pointed 500 grain Lee I have never had any feeding issues
have shot a good amount of RCBS 300 grain gas check mold without a gas check powdercoated at 1600 FPS no issues at all

dkf

02-07-2018, 05:01 PM

Thanks everybody for the information. There are a lot of cartridge names that I haven't seen before, I could not find the Velociraptor I did find the 30 ARX. Has anyone ever tried to neck down the 458 or the 50 Cal to 44 cal? And are you guys having any trouble shooting cast or powder coated boolits with these?

Tromix has the original prints for the .44 Fury which is a .458socom necked down to take a .44 bullet. Myself and one or two others tried to get Tony at tromix to run some .44Fury barrels but I guess he doesn't think enough people will want them to justify a run.

I shoot a lot of cast in my .458socom, PCd and lubed lead. I always use a gas check. I'm using a Tromix barrel and bolt.

How much do I need to worry about nose profile? if in AN AR15 probably not going to get a real wife flat nose to feed
I shoot a HP'ed NOE 460-350 with a fairly wide nose and once in a while will have a hang up .. with the pointed 500 grain Lee I have never had any feeding issues
have shot a good amount of RCBS 300 grain gas check mold without a gas check powdercoated at 1600 FPS no issues at all

Largest metplat on a bullet I shoot in my .458socom is .380". The 46-350VG and 46-405VG from Accurate. I also have the 46-350 from NOE and shoot it as well. Runs 100%. I run primarily Lancer magazines and have blended the upper receiver into the ramp on my Tromix barrel for a smooth transition.

Whiterabbit

02-07-2018, 05:27 PM

Earlwb

02-07-2018, 07:12 PM

I have a AR-15 in .450 Bushmaster caliber. I have used it for pig hunting and I have been quite pleased with the results too. The ammunition is becoming much more common to find too. Cabelas sells the ammo, and it is appearing in other chain stores now too. Of course online it is easy to find as well. Reloading is not a problem either.

rockrat

02-08-2018, 12:54 PM

I have shot the Lee boolit thru my 450 b without any problems. It sure puts a "thump" on our gongs

Smoke4320

02-08-2018, 02:56 PM

Great, Great, Great info.

Smoke, can you share your load data for 458 socom wiht the 500 grain LEE? and is the LEE the gas check round nose with small meplat, or is it the plain base BPCR profile bullet? I've cast, loaded, and shot both (in other cartridges)
Whiterabbit the load is right on the pic above .. Now several have cautioned me about using Federal Large Pistol mag primers in the Socom .. They say its prone to slam fire
459-500-3R round nose plain base

Smoke4320

02-09-2018, 04:38 PM

Ok whiterabbit here is the load
NOE 460-350 HP
50/50/1 COWW/PB/HSB
With this alloy and the deep HP pins I end up with a 325-327 grn HP bullet
powdercoated and sized .4595
Seated 1.975
Fed 155 LPM primer
200 Powder 25.2 grns
MUST CRIMP to get good burn
avg velocity 1592 FPS

out of a 16" AR15
Absolute murder on deer/hogs

Smoke4320

02-09-2018, 05:45 PM

Whiterabbit .. remember You probably want a different LPM primer brand .. best to eliminate the slamfire option :)

dkf

02-09-2018, 05:55 PM

All I use are CCI350 primers and I recommend them for th e.458socom. They take more to "pop" than some other primers but are not so tough as to not work reliably. My .458socom AR has a trigger group with a reduced power hammer spring and I have never had one not go bang when the hammer dropped. I have never had one go off from dropping the bolt with a round in the chamber with no mag in the gun either, though do so is not really recommended.

Whiterabbit

02-11-2018, 11:27 AM

Awesome, thank you. A friend just bought the socom, its for him.

Intel6

02-12-2018, 12:35 PM

Another .458 SOCOM fan here. I have lots of fun with mine, uses regular magazines and an easy to find diameter bullet. I recently tried two new moulds for mine. A 360 Gr. bullet that is becoming my all around shooter/plinker bullet and a 500 gr. spire point for subsonic use. See the pic below for the bullets and them loaded in cases. The 360 gr. has a crimp groove in it for use in the 45-70 which it shoots great in also.

pmer

02-18-2018, 04:57 PM

Those look pretty nice Intel6, thanks for input. Where did you get the molds for the smooth sided boolits from?

corbinace

02-18-2018, 05:39 PM

It looks just like the one that I have from NOE.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=84_466&products_id=3619&osCsid=1a1ki2htnvfila4d93tiav2ub3

dkf

02-18-2018, 10:36 PM

Those look pretty nice Intel6, thanks for input. Where did you get the molds for the smooth sided boolits from?

Both are from NOE. I have the mold on the left (459-354-FN) for my .458socom. We designed it primarily for the .458socom but it also works well in the .45-70 as well as some others. The crimp groove was put on for the 45-70 shooters but it helps get a longer COAL in the .458socom. Kinda a win win on that one.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=84_506&osCsid=1a1ki2htnvfila4d93tiav2ub3

Meatpuppet

02-18-2018, 11:21 PM

If you are just getting into large bore ARs, I would recommend simply buying a Tromix .458 SOCOM complete upper. You get a quality build that will work right out of the box using the standard buffer and AR mags (Lancer mags for best performance). It is probably your cheapest entry into the Large Bore AR game.

You can purchase .458 ammo from several sources and then decide if you want to make your own (which I guarantee you will once you shoot it).

Tromix also makes a .358 SOCOM, which is a .458 SOCOM necked down to .358. I have just started working up loads for this round and it is a screamer! Basically it is my 357 Maximum on steroids shooting through an AR.

Using swaged projectiles from BT Snipers dies or cast from MP's 462 Hammer mold, they run great. Way cool!

pmer

02-19-2018, 01:02 PM

https://sotaarms.com/component/jshopping/product/view/2/460?Itemid=0

Check out the price on this upper. $480.00 hopefully in a week or two I can put in an order for something like this.

DCM

02-22-2018, 09:18 PM

Nice price.

milltownhunter

02-24-2018, 01:46 PM

this week both my ups came in first is a 450 bushmaster 16'' bushmaster second is a 50 Beowulf 16'' alexander cant wait tp take out to the range the alexander look better built bought the 450 so I could shoot 45 acp bullets cheaply and 50 for hunting will be using the 450 for hunting and a lot of big bore plinking

dogmower

03-01-2018, 08:40 PM

there's a company (sorry forget the name) that is coming out with an ar-10 platform rifle that shoots, essentially, a rimless 500 smith and Wesson. sounds like a great combination.

rockrat

03-01-2018, 10:17 PM

Big Horn Armory

Whiterabbit

03-02-2018, 01:19 PM

there's a company (sorry forget the name) that is coming out with an ar-10 platform rifle that shoots, essentially, a rimless 500 smith and Wesson. sounds like a great combination.

Great Shots Newsletter
Starline is now making .500 Auto Max brass cases. The .500 Auto Max was designed by Big Horn Armory for use in their AR500 rifle, which is based on the AR-10 sized platform.

The .500 Auto Max is essentially a rimless .500 S&W Magnum. It is a very versatile cartridge and can handle anything from prairie dogs to pachyderms to Peterbilts - truck stopping power in a platform weighing less than 10 pounds.

The .500 Auto Max uses the same reloading dies, shell holders & load data as the .500 S&W Mag, with the exception of requiring a taper crimp instead of the standard roll crimp. This is due to the Auto Max headspacing off of the mouth of the case instead of the rim.

https://www.starlinebrass.com/brass-cases/500-AUTO-MAX/?utm_campaign=500_auto_max_180201&utm_medium=email&utm_source=eletter_180201&utm_content=order_now_36137

BHuij

03-02-2018, 01:29 PM

IMO the prize goes to 458 SOCOM for balance between convenience (more convenient than 50 Beowulf) and power (more power at close ranges than most 30 cal).

I was planning on building a 300 BLK for shooting cast subs, but I'm now considering doing 458 SOCOM instead.

Whiterabbit

03-02-2018, 01:36 PM

Smoke4320

03-03-2018, 10:42 AM

what criteria do you use to define convenience? brass availability? bottleneck reloading? availability of projectiles? variety of projectiles?

Something you might be weighting heavily might be a non-issue for someone else.

458 Socom... for me it was the availability of many weights/styles and molds of 45-70 sized projectiles plus preferring bottleneck cases

BHuij
I have both and both have their places and jobs .. If you want stupid quiet and power to kill a deer at 100 yds (NOE 247) the Blackout all the way ..
the 458 Socom at subsonic is not that quiet but still packs a huge wallop and at Sonic is not that bad shooting recoil wise but oh so deadly at the other end

Lloyd Smale

03-03-2018, 10:55 AM

Ive got a 50 beo and like it. Ive killed deer, pigs and my wife killed a 1500lb Asian water buffalo with it. Now as to whats the best one I don't know or really care. there all powerful they all kill well. theres plenty enough good molds available for 452 458 and 501 bullets. to be truthful I don't full much with cast in mine. Deer, bear, and pigs can be killed quite handly with reineer plated bullets and they shoot better then any cast load ive found in my gun and are a heck of a lot cleaner and a 1000 of them will last a while in a gun like that. I'm not one of those "because I bought it and I'm so smart it has to be the best one" type of guys. to be honest I have shot more then a 100 rounds out of the 450 or 458. I sure wouldn't sell my 50 to buy one and if I had one of the 45s I wouldn't sell it to buy a 50. Bottom line is if you found any of them lacking in the hunting field in the US youd better look in the mirror not at the gun. Hardest to find and most expensive thing with any of them is brass. the 450 has a slight edge there. Other then that pick the one you like the sound of the name and go hunting.

sass2924

03-18-2018, 01:04 AM

I’ve got a 458 Socom and echo everyone else’s positve comments. If you decide to build one, go with Tromix. They sell barrels, bcg’s marked uppers etc.

pmer

07-26-2018, 12:18 PM

https://sotaarms.com/component/jshopping/product/view/2/460?Itemid=0

Check out the price on this upper. $480.00 hopefully in a week or two I can put in an order for something like this.

I have a heads up for this manufacturer. I bought one of these in 458 socom and about 50 rounds through it.

I haven't been able to shoot cast with it because it has a tight chamber. A loaded case neck measures .485 and a fired case neck measures .486. A round loaded with a cast boolit goes about .487 so I'm out of luck unless I neck turn. It has a short throat too.

They took a look at it and said they fixed it. Went home and fired a couple cases and still have the same numbers. Might be a case of "it's built to out spec" and good luck going on here.

Just a fyi with sota arms. To be fare they haven't got back to me with my findings on the second batch of fired cases.