38 S & W Special CTG - When was it born?

[SteveK]

The serial # of the gun in the attached picture is 396xxx, it works properly and it's in fair to good condition. It is believed to be a S&W Model 1905, but I don't know for sure, I'm not a wheel-gun guy. I'm helping my bro-in-law catalogue his stuff to sell as his health is uncertain.

My primary concerns are: 1) have I got the right model? and 2) what is it's approximate range of value for sale in an arm's length transaction?

Thanks for time.

[ShooterAZ]

Please don't make any offers to buy on this thread guys.

[Outpost75]

With no letter prefix before the serial number, it dates the gun before 1927, but there is no reliable online record for early S&W serial numbers, so it's hard to reliably date it further. Condition is everything, a near-pristine collector-grade gun would run over $1000, whereas one with obvious wear and having mechanical issues would go for more than a few hundred. I expect yours is somewhere in the middle, if that helps any.

[Guesser]

What is the latest patent date?? Should be on the barrel, probably on top. If it's later than 1920 it will be a 1905, 4th change. If the grips are OEM to the gun then the gun is a 1920-1930 or there about. In the 1920's S&W stopped putting a S&W medallion in the grips. Then started doing it again in '31 or so. I have 3 S&W revolvers that fit in that calendar time frame.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I pegged it as a 1903-1904 production .38 Hand Ejector from the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. Looks like we're all over the place. It is a very desirable and dare I say rare, M&P Target.

To the OP, are the front and back straps grooved or smooth?

[Outpost75]

Also to the OP, also look at the locking bolt notches in the cylinder.

Do they have hardened steel shims fitted into them to prevent peening?

[rintinglen]

That there according to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, is a Target Military and Police model of 1905, 4th change, made from 1915 to 1941 and serial numbers running from 271,784 up to 1,000,000. They don't list serial numbers by year, but serial number 500,000 was shipped in 1927. Heat-treated cylinders began to be used cerca serial number 316,648 in 1919, so best guess on this gun would be early 1920's. I would guess the value to be in the 1200-1800 range, but I haven't seen one of these for sale in years, so take that with a grain of salt. The similar 22 Outdoorsman that came along in the 1930's goes for 2,000 in very good condition, or at least that was the asking price for the last one I saw for sale.
Because the Target model was numbered with the standard M&P's, there does not seem to be an accurate total on the number of them made, but I would guess that no more than 30,000 were made, just based on what I've seen at various gun shows over the years.

[SteveK]

Please don't make any offers to buy on this thread guys.

Please do not misunderstand me. I am not selling this firearm. I have no intention or authority to sell anything. This is just to catalogue the item for the owner's use.

[SteveK]

I pegged it as a 1903-1904 production .38 Hand Ejector from the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. Looks like we're all over the place. It is a very desirable and dare I say rare, M&P Target.

To the OP, are the front and back straps grooved or smooth?

They are quite smooth.

[SteveK]

Also to the OP, also look at the locking bolt notches in the cylinder.

Do they have hardened steel shims fitted into them to prevent peening?

No clue.... Could you dumb that down for me?

[SteveK]

That there according to the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson, is a Target Military and Police model of 1905, 4th change, made from 1915 to 1941 and serial numbers running from 271,784 up to 1,000,000. They don't list serial numbers by year, but serial number 500,000 was shipped in 1927. Heat-treated cylinders began to be used cerca serial number 316,648 in 1919, so best guess on this gun would be early 1920's. I would guess the value to be in the 1200-1800 range, but I haven't seen one of these for sale in years, so take that with a grain of salt. The similar 22 Outdoorsman that came along in the 1930's goes for 2,000 in very good condition, or at least that was the asking price for the last one I saw for sale.
Because the Target model was numbered with the standard M&P's, there does not seem to be an accurate total on the number of them made, but I would guess that no more than 30,000 were made, just based on what I've seen at various gun shows over the years.

That is fascinating! Thanks for your reply.

[SteveK]

What is the latest patent date?? Should be on the barrel, probably on top. If it's later than 1920 it will be a 1905, 4th change. If the grips are OEM to the gun then the gun is a 1920-1930 or there about. In the 1920's S&W stopped putting a S&W medallion in the grips. Then started doing it again in '31 or so. I have 3 S&W revolvers that fit in that calendar time frame.

The last patent date on the bbl is DEC.29.14. I presume the grips are OEM but we know very little about this gun.

An interesting side-observation about the piece is that the right grip's checkering has been significantly worn down which to me suggests it was holstered on the left hip, most likely by someone in law enforcement I would guess.

[Outpost75]

No clue.... Could you dumb that down for me?

On some early S&Ws the locking bolt notches were shimmed with a contrasting, harder metal on the flat side of the notch opposite the lead-in track. The early "Registered" .357s for instance. Purpose was to prevent beating up the locking bolt notches from cylinder backspin in heavy loads. Guns with this feature are rare and collectible. While most common in early .357s there were some .38 Specials and .32-20s made this way 1920s-30s

[9.3X62AL]

An interesting side-observation about the piece is that the right grip's checkering has been significantly worn down which to me suggests it was holstered on the left hip, most likely by someone in law enforcement I would guess.

Or--the revolver was holstered on the right hip, and its user rolled around on the ground/asphalt/concrete with a client or two during misunderstandings that went physical. Another good reason to equip a service roller with Pachmayr or Hogue neoprene grip sets--OEM or replacement wooden grip sets are getting VERY pricey of late, and if something is going to get dinged up I prefer it to be affordable & utilitarian.

[EMC45]

I would like to shoot that revolver. It is nice. 3gr. Bullseye under a 158gr. SWC.

[Multigunner]

I would like to shoot that revolver. It is nice. 3gr. Bullseye under a 158gr. SWC.

That is exactly the load I always used in my .38 Specials, best all around load.

There was an S&W company approved book at the local library years ago that had pretty much all the serial number ranges by date. Haven't seen a similar online source yet.

[rintinglen]

The Problem with dating Pre-war Smiths was that in the case of high-demand guns, they would run off a batch of frames and then assemble them as sales required. And they were allegedly none too particular about always grabbing "next."

[Lucky Punk]

My guess is around 1925-1930. The M&P Targets are really well made and fine shooters. I'll hazard worth $500-600 in very good condition. Over a grand if pristine in box. They are a lot of quality for the money and haven't gone crazy in price like some other Smiths.