Looking For A Lathe

[R.M.]

Well, my B-Day's coming up, and the Better Half has suggested getting me a lathe. She's a keeper huh? :grin:
Now I am a retired tool maker, and ran a Hardinge for years, so I am familiar with lathes.
My needs are such that I don't need a monster. Barrel work isn't in the works at all. Threading is a major consideration.
I've been lokking at http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=33274
I think this one over the other of the same size because it can run slower, and has a broader range of screw pitches.
The hole through the head is smaller than I would like, and not being able to use 5-C collets is a bummer, but other than that......

So what's your take???????
TIA

[jjamna]

I know nothing about Lathes but have been looking myself. I am not to fond of Harbor Freight Tools. They have been advertising a Grizzly in Shotgun News. It is cheaper and is set up more for working on guns. I would take a look at them also. Hope someone who knows will post I would like to see some comments myself.

[deltaenterprizes]

It is a shame you don't live closer,I have a South Bend G-26 T I would for less than half of that!

[R.M.]

Where are you????

[deltaenterprizes]

Longview,TX

The Grizzly products are a step above the Harbor Freight but most important is parts are available and they have been around for 25 years. I have one of the 9x49 mills and it is as good as the previous imports I have had.

[John Taylor]

I don't care for the Harbor Freight stuff, got one of their band saws and it is a joke. I have 3 lathes and one is an old grizzle that works quite well. The one you are looking at is a gear head but the threading gears are not oil bath, look at the shifting arms.
This one has a bigger hole through the spindle http://grizzly.com/products/Gunsmith-s-Bench-Top-Lathe-with-Stand/G4003G But it cost a little more. Also weighs almost 500 pounds more.

[smokemjoe]

Your find out after running USA made machince that to me its a big let down running China made machince, I ran a new Koren- $30,000 engine lathe and never could get a nice looking thread. After I retired I found a small ATLAS engine lathe that does me a good job for $400.00 , Run a ad in the paper, Thats how I found mine from a old tool maker. Joe

[Morgan Astorbilt]

R.M., Why don't you visit the machinery for sale forum on the practical machinist web site? You should be able to pick up piece of good old American iron there, like a 12"X 36" Clausing, or South Bend. The rest of the site has info on anything having to do with machining and metalworking. There's even a good gunsmithing forum.
Morgan
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=12

[MtGun44]

If you worked with a Hardinge for that long anything else is going to
almost feel like junk. A friend has a Hardinge and boy is it nice!

My Sheldon is very nice, but not in the same league at all.

Bill

[R.M.]

Ya I know, the Hardinge is one sweet machine. I sure do miss it.

[R.M.]

After checking out the Grizzly machines, they certainly get the nod over HF. The 12 X 24 has certainly caught my eye. Nice sized hole through the headstock, speed and thread pitch selection is pretty good. Still made in China though.
The hole through the head I think makes up for the shorter bed, should I ever need to do any barrel work.
I don't get Shotgun News so I haven't seen the one listed in there that jjamna mentioned. I'm certainly not opposed to buying used, but I do want one in decent shape.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far. You guys have helped a lot.

[BeeMan]

Deltaenterprizes, check your PMs.

[R.M.]

OK, the 12 X 36 is only $100.00 more, so that's a no-brainer to go that way, but the 12 X 37 belt drive is the same price as the 12 X 36 geared drive. The hardinge is belt driven, so I don't think it's a negative. The belt drive has more speeds, includes the stand, but no drill chuck. The 12 X 37 gets the extra inch by reducing the tailstock stroke. The threaded spindle nose didn't bother me a whole lot until I noticed that it doesn't seem to be able to accept a 5-C collet attachment. This is a serious downer. Might have to make a phone call to Grizzly.

[quasi]

Go to Plaza machinery's website. He sells usedUS made tools and gives an honest apraisal of them.

[lathesmith]

R.M., I made a 2 1/4-8 threaded spindle for my little lathe, and I use a 5c collet chuck with it all the time. For precision work I wouldn't be without it! I don't quite understand why you wouldn't be able to use a 5c collet chuck with either of these machines; it's simple to get a plain-back collet chuck and then get the proper backing plate.
lathesmith

[R.M.]

Maybe I should have said that Grizzly doesn't appear to sell a 5-C collet set-up for the belt-drive machine, where they do for the others. At least from my searching.

[Morgan Astorbilt]

R M, Back when I had my 12"x36" Clausing, which being a wartime era lathe, had 1-1/2"-8 spindle thread, I had a collet attachment that screwed on, and had a large handwheel, about 10" dia., with a plastic/Bakelite rim. It didn't use a drawbar, was operated from the front. I think it was either a Landis, Logan or Hardinge, been over thirty years. Very fast for multiple parts. You might be able to find something like it for the lathe you're looking at. Since I got a 6-1/2" YUASA Set-Tru 3-jaw chuck for my Cincinnati, I am able to dial in the workpiece, and don't use collets anymore.
Morgan

[Dutchman]

The Harbor Freight 12x36 uses 5C collets.

http://images39.fotki.com/v1292/photos/2/28344/2069154/b1-vi.jpg

I see the price has gone up on these since the one I bought $2,000 + $300 freight.
http://www.billstoolcrib.com/Lathbir1236.htm

The Birmingham is pretty much the same as the Harbor Freight with a better paint job and overall better QC. Hole through spindle is 1.5". It takes 5C collets.

The belt driven version with 18 speeds is misleading as to get those other 9 speeds you have to switch the drive belt on the motor itself. The motor has a 2 step pulley. Those extra 9 speeds are pretty close to the first 9 speeds so, IMO, you're not gaining much. If you feel the need for a lower bottom speed you can swap the motor pulley for a slightly smaller one and there ya go.

For 2 years I had a Clausing 6300 series in my home shop along with a 10" Atlas and 15" Von Wyck (mfg 1903). The Clausing is a primo lathe. Had infinite speed belt drive and was an exceptionally accurate lathe. The Birmingham 12x36 and other Chinese 12" lathes try to mimic the Clausing. For the money the Chinese are just fine. I've had mine for 4 yrs but its been unpowered for the last 2 (soon to change).

http://www.lathes.co.uk/clausing/page2.html

The earlier Clausing 5400 series are a little more common on the used lathe market but they're also much older. You start getting into issues of hunting parts. Something to think about. I wouldn't pass up a 6300 for $2,000 if in real nice condition. They have an L00 spindle nose. If you find one with a 3 phase motor its very easy to swap it out for a 3/4 hp 110v single phase motor. That's what I did. I liked the Clausing but my half-brother finally wanted it in his home shop. I felt pretty lucky to have had it for those 2 yrs.

The Grizzly gunsmith lathe is superior to the others in a couple ways. It has a better tailstock and a much better pedestal. Those are the two main areas where it exceeds the plain 12x36". If it was available when I bought mine I would've bought it instead of the Birmingham. Grizzly does sell 5C collets. I think their 5C lever collet closer is overpriced.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/searchresults.aspx?q=5+c+collets

Dutch - resident of Jefferson County, Colorado circa 1971-72 and a machinist for Cutler-Hammer on North Broadway in Denver.

[lathesmith]

Dutchman, that is indeed a beautiful set-up! Lots of possibilities there....

R.M., there are several reputable vendors of some pretty nice 5c collet chucks out there, here is one:

http://www.lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER%205C%20COLLET%20CHUCK.htm

There are also some on flea bay, as well as collet sets and things. Grizzly tends to be kinda flaky and hit-and-miss on some of their machine accessories, especially lathe chucks and things. They also have some very good prices on some of the stuff they have, IF they happen to have it in stock. For example, I have gotten several spare AXA-type toolholders locally from them, and their price can't be beat on this item anywhere. It always pays to check...
lathesmith

[mike in co]

. For example, I have gotten several spare AXA-type toolholders locally from them, and their price can't be beat on this item anywhere. It always pays to check...
lathesmith


http://www.cdcotools.com/

[PatMarlin]

Nice lathe there Dutchman.

Where you at in Siskiyou? I've got a place in Happy Camp.

[Dutchman]

Nice lathe there Dutchman.

Where you at in Siskiyou? I've got a place in Happy Camp.

Up on the hill overlooking Yreka at the mouth of Humbug Gulch. I live with my daughter's family. I've been here 2 yrs after living in the cornfields of northern Indiana for 10 yrs. Native to Lost Angeles.

Asked my son-in-law if he knew where Hayfork was.. He's a Forest Service fire fighter at Petersberg just a little north of you.

The lathe picture was right after it was delivered. Its a pretty decent lathe for the bucks. I sold off some guns to buy it.

Dutch

[1hole]

I had longed for a decent small lathe for so long I almost gave up and was looking at the Griz/HF stuff when an old SB 9x36 Mod. A showed up in the local newspaper classified adds. I bought it.

It was pretty worn but everything worked except the back gearing which I fixed with parts bought on eBay. My lathe included a full set (minus two) of 3C collets to 1/2" in 64ths, four cutting tool holders and a knurling tool, several calipers, a 5" dog plate and a threading dial. It can hold tolerances to about a half thou in spite of some significant backlash.

I thought that at $500 it was a little over priced for its age and condition but took it anyway. That was five years ago and I am VERY glad I got a SB rather than the Chinese stuff. And my wife still smiles every time she sees me using it!

Mine is too small for barrel work but for what I can do, it does things VERY well! The threading gear box and slow back gear speeds makes cutting threads easy, even for a novice like me who had never used a lathe before. The faster speeds of the red machines would make threading much more difficult, at least for me.

My point is, check around for old American steel before you buy the nice looking little Chinese lathes, I think you will be glad you did IF you can find one. In fact, if I were in your shoes I think I'd likely drive to Texas to take a look at a certain South Bend G-26 T!

Good luck :drinks:

[PatMarlin]

There's no comparison with my new old Logan and my chinese ***. The fit, finish, and feel is awesome.

It's like a fine piano, it inpsires the user to be played.

[Freightman]

Golden to Longview is 1000 Mi, but I am with you I would do the drive for a quality machine.

[JDFuchs]

Since your in the CO area take a look at http://www.rollerauction.com/home.asp some times they have great deals on machine tools. Tho being live auctions you never know how much thell go for. Tooling form machine shops can be quite cheep there. Tho it can be months between sizable machine shop auctions. I want to start a small shop myself but right now im moving to often.

[PatMarlin]

Found mine on craigs list.

[13Echo]

There is no doubt the good old American iron is the top of the class in machine tools but don't sell the better foreign tools short. Harry Eales is building a Borchardt, and doing quite well with a Chinese 7x14 lathe and mini mill. The tooling seems quite up to the job. Still, it would be nice to have the home grown tools

http://s89.photobucket.com/albums/k206/Rifleman_01/?sc=3

Jerry Liles

[Linstrum]

Don't confuse the Taiwan lathes and mills with the mainland Chinese stuff. The Taiwan manufacturers have been cranking out lathes and mills that are based on U.S. and British designs, and for 40 years have been absolute top of the line for doing stuff like we do and their prices are not steep. If you want better you'll have to pay through the nose for Swiss machines.

U.S. stuff is great if you can find it, but that old highest quality WW2 surplus through the 1960s surplus from the moon shot and aerospace programs is getting awful hard to find in usable shape nowadays.

My father worked off and on as a machinist from 1936 to 2006. When he needed a new lathe in 1986 he did a lot of research to see what all was available. He considered getting a rebuilt Monarch or South Bend but after seeing what was available new he tested and then bought a Taiwanese Jet 13x40. He has told me several times it is the best all-around work horse lathe he has ever used during his 70 years as a machinist. In 2005 when I needed a lathe to replace my worn out Sears model I talked to Buckshot as well as my father and then got a Taiwanese Jet like my father's lathe.

The lathe I bought is the same basic model as my fathers except with a longer bed. It is the Jet 13x60 gap bed belt drive with stand, and as set up with accessories cost about $4000 in 2005. I have not looked back. It replaced my worn out Sears Atlas 9x36 and a 65 year old South Bend gap bed 24x108 that I could chuck up a 55 gallon barrel in. My giant SB burned up in a fire and the insurance paid for my new Jet.

After I went through it and spent a few hours re-adjusting everything my Jet 13x60 holds to 0.0005" in a 36" long cut on a 1-3/8" bar of type 303 stainless steel and I routinely work to 0.0001" using ceramic inserts and diamond tip tools I make. The threading gear box does both U.S. and metric and between the two is capable of doing thousands of different thread pitches by mixing the gear ratios. For a lot of nuts, bolts, and pipe fittings the threads do not need to be exact, for instance a pipe fitting cut to 16.93 TPI will work fine on a pipe cut to 17 TPI British pipe thread, and believe me, there are some oddball threads out there but I can match them or get close enough to work with my Jet. Of course if you are making something like rod cap nuts and bolts the thread pitch needs to be a better match than 16.93 to 17, but for carriage bolt applications that is fine.

I chose a belt drive lathe over a gear drive because of the feathering ability that can only be done using deliberate belt slippage. My old Sears Atlas still has belts I put on in 1964 and were still good after thousands of hours of lightly slipping them on feathered cuts, mostly threading and tapping jobs. There are link-type "V" belts available that are real easy to put on a closed shaft so there is no worry about needing to take the spindle assembly apart to replace belts, which is a major all-day job. For the home machinist who does everything from threading to boring blind holes in mold blocks, a belt drive is easier to use than a gear drive. A gear drive will break or bend something or snap off expensive tool bits where a belt drive will come up against something hard and just stop because the belts can be set up to slip. For heavy cuts the belts can be tightened up so they don't slip but 99% of the stuff I do I leave the belts loose to help prevent belt and headstock bearing wear.

If I needed a smaller lathe I would not hesitate to get another Jet, but a big lathe if it is a good one will do everything a little lathe will do plus all the things a big one will, too.

I almost forgot, in addition to the 2 horse power single phase 240-volt AC motor my lathe came with, I also installed a 90-volt 3/4 horse power shunt wound DC motor with variable speed control with reverse switch. I can dial in any speed I want and control the starts and stops with the speed dial. Shunt wound motors have about the same torque at slow speed as they do high speed and having the DC motor increases thread cutting productivity three times to what it has with just a single speed AC motor.

Have fun!


rl428

[Buckshot]

..............My cousins husband Otis, mentioned to me once that he was looking for a smaller handier lathe. He has his own business and works on heavy equipment like cranes, dozers, generators and the like. One person's 'Big' lathe is another persons hobby machine. I asked him what he had and he said he didn't remember, but it was just too big. He did say it came from a U.S. Navy ordnance facility. I named off a few lathe manufacturers but the only one that he said sounded like it was "Logan".

The only big lathe Logan made was a 14", and it was head and shoulders above the other Logan lathes, as it was comparatively a horse. I said I'd swing by and take a look at it and maybe take a few photos in case I knew of anyone looking for a 'Big' lathe. He said he'd like to get rid of it as it was sitting on his 2 axle trailer behind his shop.

About a week later I made the drive, and as I walked back around behind his his shop and saw it I kind of chuckled. A Logan, indeed! I was a big ole Gisholt turret lathe that probably weighed 4,000 lbs if it weighed and ounce.

http://www.fototime.com/5406A32CB2B29A1/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/281114344FE2B35/standard.jpg

The carriage and the bed turret probably weight as much as my entire 11"x36" Logan :-)

http://www.fototime.com/156677410E1B07C/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/AB7093AC8D170B9/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/D8751E63621CF30/standard.jpg

I don't know the rating on the motor but there are 4 V belts driving the headstock. It was pretty rusty but wasn't any of that heavy flaky cancerous stuff.

http://www.fototime.com/A600F60374B1BE3/standard.jpg

He said it had 5 buckets of tooling with it. Four of them are in the top upper right photo and this one above had busted open and spilled out a bunch of chuckjaws and tool blocks. It's provenence is pretty clear. There are 2 metal tags rivited to the side of the headstock. One says that this machine conforms to the U.S. Government War Production Boards' requirements, and the other says it was U.S. Government property and then had a Naval Ordnance facility tag.

All I need is something else to mess with, but if I had a big ole shop I think it's be a blast to take this beast down to parts, and clean it up and put it back together. You couldn't cut threads with it but danged if you couldn't do a lot of other stuff.

....................Buckshot

[Linstrum]

I have seen a lot of old lathes and mills bite the dust by being put outside like that. That old Gisholt is what my giant South Bend looked like after the brush fire heated it up red hot!


rl431

[PatMarlin]

Reminds me of my friends big old turret lathe setting out in his field up in Washington.

I think you autta take that beast home and start wrenchin' Rick.. :mrgreen: